New Carnival policy re: rebating and gifts

[mrb1963]

Not talking out of both sides of my mouth. The reason that I'm not looking for new business is because I had to change my business model because I couldn't compete with the agencies selling individual cruises and rebating. I'm not looking for new business in individual reservations anymore as I'm now almost exclusively doing group cruises and group travel. I still service the existing client base I have but I'm not trying to grow that part of my business more.

 

It actually was one of the best things that I did in that I make a heck of a lot more money on my exclusive groups and no one can book into them except by going through my agency. I've been extremely successful since I started doing this about 2 years ago. It was a definite change for me but after several years of trying to compete I just couldn't do it. Yes, with all of the quotes that I still did over the past couple of years (mainly RCCL) I lost 90% of them because I couldn't offer "free gratuities + $100 onboard credit + specialty dining". In a way, I guess I have to be thankful because I enjoy the group business but it's not the same as the individual business.

You proved my point and did what you should have done and that is either figure out how to compete or reinvent yourself. Competition is what keeps prices good for the consumer and companies on their toes. Those that cant figure out how to compete or reinvent their business model deserve to go out of business and should not be offered assistance at my expense.

[OrangeAndBlue]

Ok, that makes sense. They can just give your $25 worth of crap, like pens and mugs and stuff, right?

 

My Carnival TA earned my business with the MUCH better than Carnival insurance she hooked me up with. Cheaper and better than anything I could find on insuremytrip dot com. Also the time she spent on the phone getting Carnival to fudge some occupancy restrictions, she knew what to do and what to say and got it done. She has my business, but I will miss the OBC she gives too!

 

From Carnivals point of view, I would think they would want most cruisers to start with some OBC, say fifty bucks, just get your spending. If I know I have no on board credit, I will be much tighter than if I know I have some, so "just one drink" turns into dozens, or a trip into the gift shop to spend my small OBC ends up with me spending much more.

 

Yes, $25 worth of crap is right. I have a closet full of stuff I can't get rid of!

 

There's still going to be onboard credit offered by Carnival all the time. At least once a month they have one offer or another coming out so just look out for it.

[OrangeAndBlue]

You proved my point and did what you should have done and that is either figure out how to compete or reinvent yourself. Competition is what keeps prices good for the consumer and companies on their toes. Those that cant figure out how to compete or reinvent their business model deserve to go out of business and should not be offered assistance at my expense.

 

Well, we'll just have to disagree about the new policy.

 

But I completely agree with you about having to reinvent yourself. It seems every couple of years in this business I've changed directions on what I want to sell or do. I started out wanting to put together singles cruises. I did one and that was it. I simply cannot believe that grown people in their 30s and 40s (and 50s and 60s!!!) would revert back to high school and have so much drama. No amount of money could ever make me go down that road again!

[mrb1963]

Well, we'll just have to disagree about the new policy.

Orange-I agree we will have to disagree but fortunately for me until all of the other lines change their policy I will just book my cruises on them and not Carnival and sadly I really enjoyed the Carnival cruise I took last year.

[J&K08]

I think you are getting hoodwinked by Carnival, Orangeandblue. Carnival is capping TA's but not their company. Carnival is now free to offer OBCs in excess of $25 to drive business to their website or their customer service while you are capped at $25. Now they don't have to pay out commissions and get to receive 100% of the profits.

 

Everywhere I have lived TA's have been rare to non-existent. I can't even tell you the last person I have met that has used a TA. TA's were basically a thing of the past when the internet came into full bloom. I booked my first cruise through the Carnival website and it was easy. My upcoming cruise I am trying a TA because they are a close, personal friend of mine starting out as a way to supplement her current income. I am only getting a small value added to my booking.

 

I hope Carnival does not go the way of Apple. Apple is a facist company that won't open up its platforms to home PC builders like myself. They only allow you their cookie cutter options of Macs with almost no ability to order to your specifications unlike IBM computers where I can build a rig to my specs. Additionally, IPads, IPhones, and IPods are built with intergrated parts you can only send to Apple to repair (specifically the batteries). Also, you can't keep your IPhone too long or the software will phase it out for you. Unless you jailbreak your phone, which voids the warranty, you have to add all your software, movies, and music through their software which is a horrible invasion of privacy. Then don't get me started on ITunes and Ios. Finally, just when the market has too many aftermarket accessories they change the accessories needed for the new IPhone 5 forcing you to spend untold amounts of money replacing all the accessories you currently have. :mad: Rant is over, soapbox is away. :D

[OrangeAndBlue]

I think you are getting hoodwinked by Carnival, Orangeandblue. Carnival is capping TA's but not their company. Carnival is now free to offer OBCs in excess of $25 to drive business to their website or their customer service while you are capped at $25. Now they don't have to pay out commissions and get to receive 100% of the profits.

 

Everywhere I have lived TA's have been rare to non-existent. I can't even tell you the last person I have met that has used a TA. TA's were basically a thing of the past when the internet came into full bloom. I booked my first cruise through the Carnival website and it was easy. My upcoming cruise I am trying a TA because they are a close, personal friend of mine starting out as a way to supplement her current income. I am only getting a small value added to my booking.

 

I hope Carnival does not go the way of Apple. Apple is a facist company that won't open up its platforms to home PC builders like myself. They only allow you their cookie cutter options of Macs with almost no ability to order to your specifications unlike IBM computers where I can build a rig to my specs. Additionally, IPads, IPhones, and IPods are built with intergrated parts you can only send to Apple to repair (specifically the batteries). Also, you can't keep your IPhone too long or the software will phase it out for you. Unless you jailbreak your phone, which voids the warranty, you have to add all your software, movies, and music through their software which is a horrible invasion of privacy. Then don't get me started on ITunes and Ios. Finally, just when the market has too many aftermarket accessories they change the accessories needed for the new IPhone 5 forcing you to spend untold amounts of money replacing all the accessories you currently have. :mad: Rant is over, soapbox is away. :D

 

I don't think that you understand how the new policy works. Whatever rate or offer that Carnival has out there to the general public can still be offered and bought through a travel agent. So if Carnival is offering a $100 OBC Summer Sale, I can still sell and promote that.

 

What Carnival won't allow me to do is offer the $100 OBC Summer Sale with an additional $$$ OBC for booking directly with my agency instead of with another. That is now a violation of their pricing policy.

 

And yes, not a fan of Apple for the exact reasons you stated.

[J&K08]

I don't think that you understand how the new policy works. Whatever rate or offer that Carnival has out there to the general public can still be offered and bought through a travel agent. So if Carnival is offering a $100 OBC Summer Sale, I can still sell and promote that.

 

What Carnival won't allow me to do is offer the $100 OBC Summer Sale with an additional $$$ OBC for booking directly with my agency instead of with another. That is now a violation of their pricing policy.

 

And yes, not a fan of Apple for the exact reasons you stated.

 

It is good they let you match their offers. As long as TAs, like yourself, are good with it. :)

[Another ship trip]

It's not Carnival that strong-armed the struggling travel agents but the other way around. THOUSANDS of travel agents begged Carnival for the past TWO years to institute this policy. We're struggling because we have to give away our commission to compete with the online rebaters. I applaud Carnival for FINALLY listening to us for once.

 

I totally get it from your point of view--I really do. But the discounters are making money on volume I suppose. They get my business where Carnival would have otherwise gotten it. It's not a new story.

But I just don't see putting a middle man in the mix that I don't have to if I already know what I want.

True, you will get new clients which will help you, but I do wonder about those of us who are seasoned cruisers and if Carnival will possibly lose a percentage of us. I am sure if they do, they will make it up with new cruisers. But I still believe the agent will suffer since millions who use agents who discount will just go straight to Carnival; thus cutting out agents.

Maybe not. Time will tell.

[Tutankhamen]

Orangeandblue has actually made some great points, and I must concede that he/she has started to persuade me to a new line of thinking. Being that CC (and the informed cruiser) only represents a small fraction of the cruisers, this MAY actually help some small mom and pops make more money since they would not need to pass on some of their commission. Yes, they may loose a few customers, but gain a lot more in their bottom line due to not having to give OBC.

 

If true, then it is safe to say that a large amount of cruisers will not be getting OBC. This could actually hurt Carnival. I believe most people set an amount of $'s they will be spending on their vacation. The OBC was just something extra that was spent directly on Carnival. This may hurt Carnivals bottom line if you follow Orangeandblues thinking. Carnival paid a commission to TA's, then in return some of that was then put right back into the pocket of Carnival. It was a win for Carnival. Maybe not so much if they truly stop the OBC's.

 

What do you say?

[tggs726]

I just read through this thread and I think there is one very important piece of info missing. Now I havent looked over the General Ledger or Business Model for Carnival but I am guessing they actually prefer to have a TA make a booking than someone book direct. Yes Carnival is paying out 16% commission to TA's(This is only on the base fare by the way) but they are elminating staffing and overhead costs. They dont need to hire people to manage these bookings(making changes, fixing mistakes, etc), they dont need to pay rent on a building to house these employees, they dont need to pay electricty and taxes for that building, im sure the list can go on. At the end of the day if Carnival was losing money by having TA's book why would they even offer that option.

 

Although I am an accountant I am not a Carnival accountant so this is all speculation and just my 2 cents.

 

-Matt

[coops]

Actually, as a travel agent I'll no longer have to compete and give away most of my commission. Clients who would have booked with that online agency will book with me because their is no incentive to book elsewhere.

 

Also, since I'm no longer giving away commission, I'll be able to pocket 100% of it so I'll be making more there, too.

 

The smaller travel agent will get a lot more business and a lot more money. It's the reasons that THOUSANDS of us asked Carnival to put the policy in place!

 

Sorry to say this but you might just lose business. Why would people book with you and not Carnival since you cant do anything extra for them? The TAs that complained and want this new policy , might have just gave Carnival all their own customers.

 

There would be no incentive to book with a TA just book with Carnival.

[Ivanova]

Sorry to say this but you might just lose business. Why would people book with you and not Carnival since you cant do anything extra for them? The TAs that complained and want this new policy , might have just gave Carnival all their own customers.

 

There would be no incentive to book with a TA just book with Carnival.

 

Some folks would disagree with you ... passengers that booked through TAs and were on the Costa Concordia or Carnival "spam cruise" had a distinct advantage ... TAs changed teir flights, arranged for private cars & hotel accommodations, etc. ... above & beyond anything the cruise lines were doing for them ... those passengers were thankful to have a TA in their corner taking care of them.

 

If you're going to pay for a TA any way (by paying the same price to the cruise line versus booking with a TA), why not have the extra benefit of having a TA in your corner?

 

Yes, you do have to be diligent in interviewing TAs and finding the one that works best for you. Just like not all cruise lines are the same, all travel agencies aren't the same either. If you cruise one cruise line specifically, find an agency that has a lot of pull with that cruise line. Find someone that can pick up a phone and get a VP involved when there's a MAJOR issue at hand. In other words, find a TA that can do things you can never do if you book direct.

[Sargent_Schultz]

There are still numerous ways around that Carnival would never know about.

 

This would seem to discourage airlines from selling cruises and ADVERTISING free miles.

[dclark]

TA's are a relic of the past. The huge success of online

Travel supports that. I see no reason in going to a local

Ta office when I can get the same cruise with extra stuff

thrown in for the same price. If the b&m

Ta's are behind this, it is because they know they are going the way of the type writer repair business and need price fixing to stay

afloat. I speak for the majority of cruisers who would trade a smile and a firm

handshake for a $200 obc. If some one wants that smile, great , let them buy from the b&m. Everyone should have a right to shop and get the deal they want, not the communist Russia-like policy of centrally set prices.

If the old policy was hurting travel agents,they can get in line

behind everyone else that technology has left in the dust, like those people that used to make photographic film.

[firefly333]

I just read through this thread and I think there is one very important piece of info missing. Now I havent looked over the General Ledger or Business Model for Carnival but I am guessing they actually prefer to have a TA make a booking than someone book direct. Yes Carnival is paying out 16% commission to TA's(This is only on the base fare by the way) but they are elminating staffing and overhead costs. They dont need to hire people to manage these bookings(making changes, fixing mistakes, etc), they dont need to pay rent on a building to house these employees, they dont need to pay electricty and taxes for that building, im sure the list can go on. At the end of the day if Carnival was losing money by having TA's book why would they even offer that option.

 

Although I am an accountant I am not a Carnival accountant so this is all speculation and just my 2 cents.

 

-Matt

 

Some more advanced Carnival employees are allowed to work out of their house.

 

They only earn a smallish salary and get incentives for how much they book, not as much as commission, but they do get a flat incentive (so unlike a TA they dont try to push you into a more expensive booking just to make more money, they are happy whatever you book).

 

Due to the way Carnival is set up employee wise, works better for me.

 

I book the cheaper cabins, and more than one TA has said not really worth their time if thats all I want to spend. One TA said to call Carnival and only call them to book RCL or other lines etc.

 

A lot of TAs dont want the 1As and cheap PTS and inside cabins off season bookings. I know because they tell me they dont want to book it.. and Im not even a problem booking, I know what I want and dont ply them with questions.

 

I also know TAs who hate people who are always calling with questions, they tell me, that makes those bookings not really worth their time.

[Sargent_Schultz]

I also know TAs who hate people who are always calling with questions, they tell me, that makes those bookings not really worth their time.

 

I think that is because some TAs don't know the answers. They really should.

 

Brick and mortar TAs will completely disappear about the time the paperless toilet is found in every home. Internet TAs will continue until the end of time. They are limited to a single cruise line and can bundle complete packages, unlike a PVP. All for a cheaper price, if they desire to.

 

Some might even give you a free, high tech, superior, espresso machine! :p

[barbatkins]

I don't think that you understand how the new policy works. Whatever rate or offer that Carnival has out there to the general public can still be offered and bought through a travel agent. So if Carnival is offering a $100 OBC Summer Sale, I can still sell and promote that.

 

What Carnival won't allow me to do is offer the $100 OBC Summer Sale with an additional $$$ OBC for booking directly with my agency instead of with another. That is now a violation of their pricing policy.

 

And yes, not a fan of Apple for the exact reasons you stated.

 

And if we can get that OBC directly from Carnival all by ourselves.....WHY in God's name would we bother with a TA? so as I see this.......travel agents will lose business...... I have used the same guy for over 10 years and I cruise 3-4 times a year.......but I will not use him if I don't get any incentive........

 

I think a lot of folks will stop using TA's over this

[OrangeAndBlue]

I totally get it from your point of view--I really do. But the discounters are making money on volume I suppose. They get my business where Carnival would have otherwise gotten it. It's not a new story.

But I just don't see putting a middle man in the mix that I don't have to if I already know what I want.

True, you will get new clients which will help you, but I do wonder about those of us who are seasoned cruisers and if Carnival will possibly lose a percentage of us. I am sure if they do, they will make it up with new cruisers. But I still believe the agent will suffer since millions who use agents who discount will just go straight to Carnival; thus cutting out agents.

Maybe not. Time will tell.

 

Carnival will probably lose some business from this. But cruising is becoming more and more popular every year. And that's not just with the US and Canada but worldwide. Royal Caribbean I believe I read ended last year with more non-US cruisers than US cruisers. As the rest of the world's middle and upper class grow, they want to take these vacations. With 84% of Americans never having taken a cruise and much bigger numbers in other countries, there's a HUGE pool of people to draw from. Not only that but price-wise, even without the OBCs, Carnival still tends to be in the lower price range for many.

 

Yes, travel agents that relied solely on OBCs will end up losing business. I'm counting on it. They need to learn to sell on service and providing the customer with things a Carnival person could never give them.

[OrangeAndBlue]

I just read through this thread and I think there is one very important piece of info missing. Now I havent looked over the General Ledger or Business Model for Carnival but I am guessing they actually prefer to have a TA make a booking than someone book direct. Yes Carnival is paying out 16% commission to TA's(This is only on the base fare by the way) but they are elminating staffing and overhead costs. They dont need to hire people to manage these bookings(making changes, fixing mistakes, etc), they dont need to pay rent on a building to house these employees, they dont need to pay electricty and taxes for that building, im sure the list can go on. At the end of the day if Carnival was losing money by having TA's book why would they even offer that option.

 

Although I am an accountant I am not a Carnival accountant so this is all speculation and just my 2 cents.

 

-Matt

 

It's EXTREMELY expensive to run a call center or any company. What most people don't realize is that it costs about 20% - 25% more than an employee is actually paid to keep them because you have to pay unemployment insurance, workman's comp, health insurance, company share of FICA, etc.. So if you have a call center rep making $20,000/year it will cost the company around $25,000/year for that employee.

 

Then there's the building expenses as stated above. Before this job, I worked for a major telecom as an engineer and they were looking at having people telecommute because the building we were in cost $50/sq ft/year for leasing. Our cubicles were 8 foot by 8 foot so you're looking at $3200 PER YEAR PER EMPLOYEE! Granted call centers take a lot less space but it's still not cheap.

 

With travel agents, you don't pay until the client has actually completed their cruise. You have all of these "sales agents" working for you and you only have to pay them commission; no insurance, no benefits, no anything.

 

Sure, Carnival is going to take direct bookings but there's no way they could ever afford the size of staff needed to handle all of those calls.

[Mulege]

If I can get a $150 OBC and pp gratuities on RCL or Celebrity and pay the same price or less than a CCL, it's a no brainier, bye CCL.

[OrangeAndBlue]

Sorry to say this but you might just lose business. Why would people book with you and not Carnival since you cant do anything extra for them? The TAs that complained and want this new policy , might have just gave Carnival all their own customers.

 

There would be no incentive to book with a TA just book with Carnival.

 

I'm doing way more for them than any rep at Carnival will do for them. It's not always about giving away money; it's about customer service. It's the fact that when most of my clients call me I answer on the first or second ring and you don't have to press a series of numbers to be put on hold to speak to someone. I know who they are when they call because it shows up on my called ID and I greet them by name. I don't need to look up their reservation because I already know what it is. When they call, they get me and ONLY me; they don't have to deal with Bob one time, Sue the next time, Tom the next time. They can reach me 24/7 and not just during business hours (more referring to a PVP). They have my direct line which is my cell phone.

 

It's the fact that I can sell them more than just the Carnival product. It's that I can get them a shore excursion that isn't through Carnival. It's the fact I get to know them personally and their likes and dislikes. I have one client who always has a cabin 3 doors down from an elevator and she doesn't have to explain that to me because I know.

 

I take of everything for them beginning to end and get them whatever they want. Any questions they have gets answered. I EARN my client's business every time I book them because of my dedication to them. I care about my client's and their travel. If I didn't, do you think I would stay in business?

 

Do you think a call center rep really cares if you had a good vacation or not? It's a job to many of them and not a career choice. This is my chosen profession and I strive every day to work it to the best of my ability and to serve my clients. I spend 2 to 3 months (and thousands of dollars out of my own pocket) taking training, doing ship inspections, meeting with suppliers, going to conferences. How much knowledge and training do the people you speak with at Carnival take or get?

[OrangeAndBlue]

Some folks would disagree with you ... passengers that booked through TAs and were on the Costa Concordia or Carnival "spam cruise" had a distinct advantage ... TAs changed teir flights, arranged for private cars & hotel accommodations, etc. ... above & beyond anything the cruise lines were doing for them ... those passengers were thankful to have a TA in their corner taking care of them.

 

If you're going to pay for a TA any way (by paying the same price to the cruise line versus booking with a TA), why not have the extra benefit of having a TA in your corner?

 

Yes, you do have to be diligent in interviewing TAs and finding the one that works best for you. Just like not all cruise lines are the same, all travel agencies aren't the same either. If you cruise one cruise line specifically, find an agency that has a lot of pull with that cruise line. Find someone that can pick up a phone and get a VP involved when there's a MAJOR issue at hand. In other words, find a TA that can do things you can never do if you book direct.

 

Exactly. You are paying for a travel agent's services whether you use us or not. The price is the same so you're paying for something and not enjoying the use of it!

[OrangeAndBlue]

TA's are a relic of the past. The huge success of online

Travel supports that. I see no reason in going to a local

Ta office when I can get the same cruise with extra stuff

thrown in for the same price. If the b&m

Ta's are behind this, it is because they know they are going the way of the type writer repair business and need price fixing to stay

afloat. I speak for the majority of cruisers who would trade a smile and a firm

handshake for a $200 obc. If some one wants that smile, great , let them buy from the b&m. Everyone should have a right to shop and get the deal they want, not the communist Russia-like policy of centrally set prices.

If the old policy was hurting travel agents,they can get in line

behind everyone else that technology has left in the dust, like those people that used to make photographic film.

 

Well, it now seems like you getting those OBCs from Carnival is a relic of the past. Guess you better take your own advice and get in line. That's how things are now!

 

And don't buy Apple products, BOSE, Samsung, Sony, or a whole host of other suppliers that say what you can and can't sell their products for. I would say most of the products sold today have a minimum price and include what can or can't be given away with their product to get a buyer to buy.

[richstowe]

Don't think that the THOUSANDS of travel agents that forced Carnival's hand into implementing this policy aren't hard at work to get Royal Caribbean and the other cruise lines to follow suit. It will happen at some point; it just takes time and we are very patient!

Good idea not posting a web site. After reading your many posts, I realize you are not working in my interests.

We all work for our own benefit and rewarding you would be against mine. No offense meant.

Sorry to say this but you might just lose business. Why would people book with you and not Carnival since you cant do anything extra for them? The TAs that complained and want this new policy , might have just gave Carnival all their own customers.

 

There would be no incentive to book with a TA just book with Carnival.

Kinda agree.

 

 

Here is my question. What will Carnival do to a large on-line TA who breaks their no rebate policy?

This is actually a question not a statement. If Expedia or Priceline discount, will they refuse

to allow them to sell Carnival cruises? In the end, the airlines and hotels couldn't. Could Carnival?

[billet]

TA's are a relic of the past. The huge success of online

Travel supports that. I see no reason in going to a local

Ta office when I can get the same cruise with extra stuff

thrown in for the same price. If the b&m

Ta's are behind this, it is because they know they are going the way of the type writer repair business and need price fixing to stay

afloat. I speak for the majority of cruisers who would trade a smile and a firm

handshake for a $200 obc. If some one wants that smile, great , let them buy from the b&m. Everyone should have a right to shop and get the deal they want, not the communist Russia-like policy of centrally set prices.

If the old policy was hurting travel agents,they can get in line

behind everyone else that technology has left in the dust, like those people that used to make photographic film.

I wish I could "speak for the majority of cruisers". Although I have been on 61 cruises I still cannot say that I could speak for even a tiny portion of the cruisers. I can only assume you must work for a major research company.

TAs are still able to offer their clients group pricing and with added benefits. I am sure some Carnival sale pricing will still offer OBCs and the TA can take advantage of these offers and include competitive pricing for flights, shore excursions, hotels etc. Prices have been set for years and I believe with this policy Carnival is attempting to provide better support for all TAs no matter their size since they realise that repeat business comes from good TAs. This also reduces Carnival administrative costs and allows them to price their product more competitively to the advantage of the passenger.