Do you think Celebrity will implement a similar policy?

[boogs]

There is a long history of companies that don't understand their real market...the latest being Research in Motion (RIM) who thought their market was secure business communications, completely ignoring that users wanted to do more than just business applications.

 

Companies have a way of falling in love with their niche and not looking at the other alternatives....believing that the world doesn't change. Believe me, there are some wonderful alternatives to cruising (and we do a great deal of cruising).

 

The error in your argument is that Celebrity is still growing, which is a sign of a company doing things correctly. RIM is failing because they did not do what Celebrity is doing - carefully watching the market and making adjustments quickly enough to stay successful. The wild success of the S-class is a good indicator of that. So is the well received 'Solsticization" of the M-class ships. The lead they have taken with the restrictive smoking policies, which are now being copied by the other cruise line, shows they know quite well what the market wants. This is not a company that, as you claim, doesn't "understand the market they are in".

 

What they probably are is a company that does some things that are contrary to what you would prefer, so you are taking shots at their otherwise successful corporate direction.

 

And of course there are alternatives for cruising. That is not a new development. It has been that way since before the first cruise ship was launched. I would hate for life to have only one way for me to enjoy my leisure time.

[Shake]

the error in your argument is that celebrity is still growing, which is a sign of a company doing things correctly. Rim is failing because they did not do what celebrity is doing - carefully watching the market and making adjustments quickly enough to stay successful. The wild success of the s-class is a good indicator of that. So is the well received 'solsticization" of the m-class ships. The lead they have taken with the restrictive smoking policies, which are now being copied by the other cruise line, shows they know quite well what the market wants. This is not a company that, as you claim, doesn't "understand the market they are in".

 

What they probably are, is a company that does some things that are contrary to what you would prefer, so you are taking shots at their otherwise successful corporate direction.

 

EXACTLY. His argument is blindly inaccurate.

[We're The Groupnors]

I had to read this comment twice before I believed what I was reading!! :confused:

 

To say that Celebrity doesn't understand a multi-billion dollar business model they have been successfully growing with the addition of five, highly regarded, award winning cruise ships, is ludicrous and complete nonsense.

 

Perhaps stating that they don't understand their business is a little over the top, but I do agree that they sometimes make wild errors, then have to backtrack. Remember the "X the Rules" campaign?

[fortinweb]

Perhaps stating that they don't understand their business is a little over the top' date=' but I do agree that they sometimes make wild errors, then have to backtrack. Remember the "X the Rules" campaign?[/quote']

 

Yes, they make mistakes, as does any company. Coca Cola made a blunder with their New Coke, Apple with their Lisa product line, Ford with their Edsel. All corrected and became even stronger. A company that doesn't take chances once in a while will stay stagnant. What is the sign of a successful company is the ability to make course corrections quickly and steer themselves out of a failure. Celebrity certainly knows how to do that. Otherwise, we'd be reading some other cruise line forum. :D

[SkystheLimit]

I realize it isn't apples-to-apples, but the Airline industry did a similar thing by controlling and limiting what TAs could do, and cutting their commission, which ended up many of us now use the Airlines, or some discount website, but those certainly arent TAs.

 

Heck, if I want to talk to a TA for flights, I now have to pay for one..even directly with the Airlines agents, it costs. Standby to standby.

 

Den

 

And look at the service that the airlines offer now. Basically nothing.

 

Hope the cruise lines don't go this way. After all, it is a vacation.

 

Flying is just a way to get from point A to point B. Nothing more and most often alot less.

[CI66774]

I booked my 1/13 Reflection cruise thru a giant online agency that also has wonderful warehouses of good stuff! I received a wonderful OBC. That was an incentive to book that particular cruise and choose Celebrity for the first time. Only time will tell whether Carnival's move is successful. People talk with their wallets and if enough move away from Carnival and to other lines who still allow OBCs, etc., then it will be Carnvial who loses. I've never booked Carnival and this new policy cements the fact I never will.

[JLC@SD]

If a travel agent can no longer offer incentives to book with them, the client will more than likely book directly with the cruise line. That will eliminate the commission the cruise line has to give to the travel agent, thereby saving them money.

.....Bingo......:D

[JLC@SD]

In my view, Celebrity would be foolish to do this. If I were a travel agent, I would simply stop booking people on Carnival. Why do they think they can dictate how people run their business???

If you did this.....you just eliminated 50% to 60% of your available clients .......who choose to travel on Carnival ......regardless of how the agent feels.

[MicCanberra]

Yes, they make mistakes, as does any company. Coca Cola made a blunder with their New Coke, Apple with their Lisa product line, Ford with their Edsel. All corrected and became even stronger. A company that doesn't take chances once in a while will stay stagnant. What is the sign of a successful company is the ability to make course corrections quickly and steer themselves out of a failure. Celebrity certainly knows how to do that. Otherwise, we'd be reading some other cruise line forum. :D

 

Try new things and sometimes you will fail, but only when you fail can you then learn how to do it better.:D

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

If you did this.....you just eliminated 50% to 60% of your available clients .......who choose to travel on Carnival ......regardless of how the agent feels.

 

I guess it would depend on the clientele. My TA does not book clients on Carnival due to some incredibly bad experiences her clients and she have had with them. Hasn't booked with them for years. She's still in business.

[boogs]

Try new things and sometimes you will fail, but only when you fail can you then learn how to do it better.:D

 

This is very close to a famous quote by Albert Einstein: "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

[Bridge Maven]

Karen - of course a real estate commission is negotiable, but this is something different. I was referring to a secret agreement where a realtor gives the buyer part of the real estate commission she received from the seller. By doing so, the buyer is actually paying less than the real estate contact indicates, but the lender doesn't know that. So in essence that realtor is contributing to bank fraud.

 

This is an example of why it is not that simple to say that it is nobody's business if an agent gives her own money secretly to a buyer.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In light of my response to Karen quoted above, I am shocked to hear that there are so many real estate agents who are unethical enough to secretly give part of their real estate commission to the buyer.

[Kevnzworld]

Something interesting to remember.

Carnival corporation also owns Holland America, Princess and Seaborne, also Cunard, P&O and Costa. It's only a matter of time before they institute this policy across all of their brands.

[jackdiamond]

Something interesting to remember.

Carnival corporation also owns Holland America, Princess and Seaborne, also Cunard, P&O and Costa. It's only a matter of time before they institute this policy across all of their brands.

You are correct; and, I believe that it is only a matter of time before the rest follow suit.

[Doylestown5518]

Can someone explain to me how the cruiseline loses money. Customer buys cruise from a travel agent who gives then an incentive worth say $500. Does the agent not have to buy that incentive from the cruiseline so the incentive is not costing the cruiseline anything?

The travel agent may use commission to pay for this incentive, surely how the agent chooses to use what is their fees is down to them?

 

I am not sure that this rule might fall foul of UK/EEC anti competition rules where basically so long as it is legal, organisations can use whatever means they consider appropriate to attract customers. There is Unfair Contracts Terms regulations and placing such a clause in the contract between the cruiseline and the travel agency might be at risk of being challenged

 

I was in product distribution sales - the more money a distributor makes from a product the more attention they devote to it. When you reduce someone's commission, you make your product into a commodity and lower the attention and services to the product and the client - that is the mentality from the cruise companies I suspect. Yet, the market tends to manage itself. Some people will pay (the travel agent/whomever) for their experience and expertise others don't need, want nor appreciate the service. That's probably why their are so many levels of service and cabins on a ship.

[CPT Trips]

Something interesting to remember.

Carnival corporation also owns Holland America, Princess and Seaborne, also Cunard, P&O and Costa. It's only a matter of time before they institute this policy across all of their brands.

 

You are correct; and, I believe that it is only a matter of time before the rest follow suit.

 

Or, if it doesn't work out well for Carnival, they can go back to the old way.

[SRUTKO1226]

My take....after many years working as an agent for a big corp. Someone new in upper upper management needs to do "SOMETHING" to justify their new position. Make a change that makes money or saves money. Good or bad, happy or sad....it gets done. It gets implemented.

 

And then OOPPSS!!!:D And everybody scrambles for the life boats. Drat... it was a bad bad idea.

 

I wish more companies had their ears and eyes on their clients rather than the "rain maker" they hired.

[Jimbo59]

Will travel agents still be able to book group space and resell the cabins at a discount?

[vvnh16a]

The way I see it , if the consumer (you and I ) still want to cruise on Carnival and go through a TA, well the TA makes out better than before for they do not pay any OBC or incentives and they can cite Carnivals new policy. It is up to the paying cruisers NOT to request Carnival. The TA is still going to book you and suggest carnival for they are getting a 9% raise when you book..

 

People on Cruise Critic are an educated bunch but believe it or not there still are 1000's of cruisers out there that do not get any OBC even under current rules. These people would not even know the difference betwen an oild and new policy regarding a TA providing OBC payments.

 

I dont cruise on Carnival but I certainly would not be using a TA to book a CArnival Cruise or any other cruise that instituted a similar policy. ON the bright side, this may make the Shareholder credit more useable for in the past the companies would frequently say the shareholde credit cannot be applied for whatever reason.

[gkny]

I believe that CCL now is trying to weed out the TA's and just work with the consumers. By doing this they better employ many more customer service agents for their call center since they'll get inundated with calls.

[Moeve]

I don't think they can actually do that at least not in the EU, I will explain why - big banks who have their own agencies have started contacting clients who pay other agents via their banking account and have offered and indeed paid large kick backs if they book with them instead. Here in Germany the agencies have lobbied against this practise and have not been sucessful at stopping it - even in court. Therefore I cannot see Carnival being sucessful here either... I guess you can threaten but if someone takes this to court they will probably loose as long as the "kick back" is an alternative product and not the cruise itsself or the gratuities. I don't think Carnival have a leg to stand on when it comes to services like rabated hotel bookings, limo services or insurances that are independant to the cruiselines......

[TRadle]

People on Cruise Critic are an educated bunch but believe it or not there still are 1000's of cruisers out there that do not get any OBC even under current rules. These people would not even know the difference betwen an oild and new policy regarding a TA providing OBC payments.

 

 

 

If I’m shopping for a cruise with a TA and they can offer me a nice OBC on some lines and not others I am more likely to book the cruise with the OBC. I don’t think you have to be on CC to do that math!

[dutchess43]

This could push Carnivals unhappy passengers to sail on other cruise lines.

[Troyer5]

When the commision was reduced for TAs,there was a little drop in bookings. However this policy might backfire against CCL[ TAs may steer their customers away from CCL thus reducing gtheir bookings]. In my case, my TAs have either gone out of business or moved. I now do all my booking direct with the companies. Most lines make you get most information, make changes with the agent.

[RMSeadog]

I have just done something I don't often do. I have read every post in this thread and I can't read without moving my LIPS!! I joke that barely made it thru high school, which in fact is true.

 

Why should I care if my R.E. agent gave some or all do her commission to the buyer? It's hers, I would pay her that commission anyway. If she uses it to close the deal I want why would/should I care?

 

In the same light why would X care if my TA gives part of her commish to me? I take this money to the ship and buy stuff (that I would not buy with my own money) at their inflated prices, which puts a percentage of the commish back in their pockets. What's the big deal?

 

Our TA is great. I email her and within an hour or so I have an answer or price and/or options, she even emailed a price reduction that saved us $500 pp, almost our airfare. Even if X implements these restrictions I continue to book with her, if for no other reason than spite. ~ Ric

 

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