Do you think Celebrity will implement a similar policy?

[CantanaLobo]

"Confusion leads to doubt and results in unnecessary shopping around for the best deal."

 

That darn confusion. Now I won't have to do that "unnecessary" shopping around for the best deal. I was always so unhappy finding the best deal. Thank you for saving me from myself. :rolleyes:

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

This is a new policy from Carnival Cruise Lines:

 

"As of August 1, 2012, travel agents will be forbidden from providing any cash-equivalent incentives to their customers such as onboard credit, specialty dining, etc., and instead will only be permitted to offer token gifts of no more than $25 in value".

 

 

Do you think Celebrity will implement a similar policy in the near future?

 

In my view, Celebrity would be foolish to do this. If I were a travel agent, I would simply stop booking people on Carnival. Why do they think they can dictate how people run their business???

[Karynanne]

Retired - would you feel the same way if a real estate agent gave part of her commission to the buyer, and no one knew about it?

 

 

 

 

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Why would anyone have to know about it? It would be a private matter between the Real Estate agent and their client. It isn't unusual for a Real Estate agent and their client to negotiate a decreased commission or have part of the commisions from the Buyer's agent and the Seller's agent to possibly pay some additional costs. Whatever the negotiations are, it isn't public knowledge.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

This is Carnival's justification for their new policy about travel agents:

 

"Consumers are often confused by a plethora of offers for the same sailing," Joni Rein, vice president of worldwide sales for Carnival Cruise Lines, told Cruise Critic. "Confusion leads to doubt and results in unnecessary shopping around for the best deal."

 

 

I'm not in the least confused and can recognize a crock when I see one. "Unnecessary shopping around for the best deal"??? What's unnecessary about it? All intelligent, informed consumers do this. I guess Carnival doesn't want intelligent, informed consumers. OK with me, I wasn't planning to cruise with them anyway.

 

[Phxazzcruisers]

Retired - would you feel the same way if a real estate agent gave part of her commission to the buyer, and no one knew about it?

 

 

 

 

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That happens a lot !!! I know of many real estate deals where the agent gave part of their commission to the buyer and to the seller.......

[Bridge Maven]

Why would anyone have to know about it? It would be a private matter between the Real Estate agent and their client. It isn't unusual for a Real Estate agent and their client to negotiate a decreased commission or have part of the commisions from the Buyer's agent and the Seller's agent to possibly pay some additional costs. Whatever the negotiations are, it isn't public knowledge.

 

Karen - of course a real estate commission is negotiable, but this is something different. I was referring to a secret agreement where a realtor gives the buyer part of the real estate commission she received from the seller. By doing so, the buyer is actually paying less than the real estate contact indicates, but the lender doesn't know that. So in essence that realtor is contributing to bank fraud.

 

This is an example of why it is not that simple to say that it is nobody's business if an agent gives her own money secretly to a buyer.

 

 

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[Fblack]

So a TA will just give you a separate check outside of the cruise booking.

[Kryssa]

Our TA has a loyalty program where they send us a gift card after every cruise good on the next booking. They are welcome to just give me extra gift card money if they can't give OBC any longer.

 

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[phoenix_dream]

I'm not in the least confused and can recognize a crock when I see one. "Unnecessary shopping around for the best deal"??? What's unnecessary about it? All intelligent, informed consumers do this. I guess Carnival doesn't want intelligent, informed consumers. OK with me, I wasn't planning to cruise with them anyway.

 

Amen to that. What an insulting comment from Carnival. We are not the idiots they portray us to be- this is being done to benefit their business, end of story.

[Gonzo70]

I doubt the major travel agencies would try to skirt the system by offering discount cards towards future cruises or checks as if caught Carnival Corp. could deny them commission on all cruises they have booked.

 

It will be interesting to see how RCCL responds. They may play a "wait and see" approach as it is possible Carnival Corp's policy will cause the major travel agencies to subtly (or not so subtly) steer customers to the RCCL brands. While Carnival Corp would see an increase in profit margins (as the new policy will cause many more people to book direct with the cruise line and therefore they will not pay commission on these cruises), it may lead to a decrease in bookings. RCCL has the option here to copy the policy (and increase profit margin) or try to siphon customers from the Carnival Corp brands to the RCCL brands.

[Denny01]

In my view, Celebrity would be foolish to do this. If I were a travel agent, I would simply stop booking people on Carnival. Why do they think they can dictate how people run their business???

 

I realize it isn't apples-to-apples, but the Airline industry did a similar thing by controlling and limiting what TAs could do, and cutting their commission, which ended up many of us now use the Airlines, or some discount website, but those certainly arent TAs.

 

Heck, if I want to talk to a TA for flights, I now have to pay for one..even directly with the Airlines agents, it costs. Standby to standby.

 

Den

[2Fltravelers]

I just transferred an onboard booking to my TA and then changed the booking to another cruise on a different Celebrity ship. As a result, I found out that Celebrity no longer allows my Platinum AmEx TA to provide me with the AmEx benefits my card entitles me to AND also get the Celebrity OBC that I was given for booking onboard. My TA was told by Celebrity that this was a recent policy change. So it appears to me that Celebrity has already implemented a policy that will restrict TA benefits to passengers who either book through or transfer to a TA. Celebrity says that are trying to restrict "double dipping" but, IMHO, they are trying to save money at the guest's expense. If my AmEx gives me a 2-category upgrade and Celebrity gives me an OBC for a future cruise (while they have the multi-month use of my deposit without interest), then where is the "double dipping"? I see a disturbing trend here.

[richsea]

This is Carnival's justification for their new policy about travel agents:

 

"The policies not only offer small to medium-sized agencies an advantage as they no longer need to compete on price when selling Carnival cruises, but consumers benefit as well, the line says.

 

"Consumers are often confused by a plethora of offers for the same sailing," Joni Rein, vice president of worldwide sales for Carnival Cruise Lines, told Cruise Critic. "Confusion leads to doubt and results in unnecessary shopping around for the best deal."

 

Additionally, these policies are also meant to encourage cruisers to select their travel agents based on expertise and service rather than lowest price or highest perk promotions."

 

That is the biggest crock of bs double talk. I would say that consumers are more confused by the " plethora of price fluctuations" instituted by the cruise lines themselves over the course of time prior to sail date. I have a certain site watch prices for sailings that I am interested in &get different prices from them sometimes on a daily basis that are all instituted by the cruise lines. What a crock!

[c-legs]

Hi Bridge Maven,

 

I believe Celebrity has something similar in place, whereby TA's cannot reduce the fare via rebating their commission. However, I believe that other methods, such as offering items such as OBC's, Specialty Dining & Gratuities remain available.

 

However, the Carnival decision definitely takes it a huge step further with the $25 limit. I wonder how the TA community is taking the news, as you would think it puts everyone on a level playing field. For some, that might be great news... for others ? not so much.

 

While I have absolutely no knowledge of any Cruise line plans, I'd be surprised if all cruise lines didn't move to a similar format, as it should add huge profits to their bottom line. I'm not saying it will happen immediately, as they may opt to wait and see how the Carnival Guests (and their other lines) react, but I'd suspect it may happen at some point.

 

I have strong feelings about this. For now, I will refrain from saying too much, as I'm not certain if all details are known, and I do not wish to stir the hornet's nest. What I will say, is that on the surface, I believe it's a game changer for both the Cruise lines and their Guests.

Hi,Andy ( and BridgeMaven)

I view this simply as additionnal things we TravelAgents can not do as part of the work as an agent of Carnival. Those ''don't 's'' are within what the line can regulate (and has the right to do so).

Nothing even remotedly implies that guests can no longer deal with travel agents; nothing even remotedly implies that a travel agent, as a business person, can no longer apply a loyalty reward business model in his/her operations...it simply eliminates some of the things which were previously carried out as part of the above-mentionned ''loyalty recognition'' business transactions.

Nothing more !!!!

Lines will always protect the integrity of the playing field, in so far as it relates to the line's product, but can not, would not and will not ever interfere in the private business operations of the agency industry as it relates to its day to day functionning; lines do indeed need the industry as a distribution and advisory channel ...they only want to eliminate practices perceived ( and mostly rightly ) as tweaking the level -playing field within their own brand name(s).

I see nothing else there...specially nothing nefariously threatening to the industry. As BridgeMaven states, if an agent/agency behaves with integrity, it has nothing to worry about,other than being told there are certain things now added to the ''donts' list.;easy enough to comply with and be creative in acheving your personnal business objectives without breaking your product provider's rules.

 

You had to know some things along the lines of what CCL announced was right around the corner...and will be emulated forthwith by other competitors ( ...you know...the level playing field ..and all that stuff...).

Eliminate chances of abuse.

 

Cheers

Claude

[barbels]

It may be ok for travel agents but it is definitely bad for passengers. I booked a cruise while on a Celebrity ship and transferred the booking to an agent for a substantial amount of OBC.

 

Without that OBC I would not have switched as there are some downsides to booking with a TA. So I guess this policy is bad for both me and the TA since they would lose my business altogether..

 

I hope that X does not institute this policy but I'm bot holding my breath.

[ghstudio]

Celebrity will probably implement the policy believing that they don't need travel agents and their competition does the same thing. What they will miss, due to corporate myopia, is that they don't understand the market they are in....you see, they think they are in the vacation market, but the reality is they are in the cruise market and there are many other alternatives. First there are other cruise lines who would like to better compete...it's not just RCL vs Carnival. Second; there are river cruises, all inclusive vacation packages (aka club med); and perish the thought, land tours or just land travel packages.

 

We cruise because it is cost effective and we don't have to pack/unpack. Our next trip, however, is renting an apartment in Paris for a week....and it will cost less than a cruise even after adding air and food. We are considering a river cruise in Europe/Russia. There are lots of alternatives....grand circle travels/overseas adventure travel (neither are cruise sites) offer interesting, cost effective ways to see the world.

 

So Celebrity will tell TA's they can't offer financial incentives....and how long will it take TA's to figure out that there are some wonderful alternatives?

 

You have to love competition, especially when some companies think they own the market, but don't understand the real market they are in.

[Kevnzworld]

Upon further thought, it's just the world we live in. I complained ( at first ), when I saw self checkout replace cashiers at the supermarket, CVS, and Home Depot...then I just got used to the convenience.

TA's are middlemen. We all complained when airlines cut them out of the equation, now we like Travelocity or Expedia to book airfare. It's easier.

Like a previous poster said," they won't let me use OBC from Amex and the TA" Well, his Amex isnt going anywhere...

I noticed that Regent and Celebrity don't like to provide customer service to passengers who book through a TA. They do have a separate extension, and personel that provide better service if you book with the cruise company directly, oh and they offer free upgrades!

[amusea]

I doubt the major travel agencies would try to skirt the system by offering discount cards towards future cruises or checks as if caught Carnival Corp. could deny them commission on all cruises they have booked.

 

It will be interesting to see how RCCL responds. They may play a "wait and see" approach as it is possible Carnival Corp's policy will cause the major travel agencies to subtly (or not so subtly) steer customers to the RCCL brands. While Carnival Corp would see an increase in profit margins (as the new policy will cause many more people to book direct with the cruise line and therefore they will not pay commission on these cruises), it may lead to a decrease in bookings. RCCL has the option here to copy the policy (and increase profit margin) or try to siphon customers from the Carnival Corp brands to the RCCL brands.

 

I think I am correct that his is the new policy of Carnival CRUISE LINE, not Carnival Corp. although it probably is safe to assume that all the other lines under the Carnival umbrella will soon follow suit. I would imagine that RCI/Celebrity will wait to see how all the Carnival lines are impacted.

I can't see a flood of Carnival cruisers rushing to Celebrity. Those cruisers are lured by a much more informal cruise experience and might be tempted to change to NCL if they change at all.

As for me, the OBC, etc. is nice but as an Elite cruiser, Celebrity just offers so much more during the cruise and that is more important than the OBC or free gratuities.

Booking with the cruise line can sometimes be a very frustrating experience. Dealing with telephone operators of the cruise lines who basically just take reservations can be frustrating because many do not have in-depth cruise knowledge and some have never even been on a cruise. I think I will still book through a TA regardless of the outcome of this situation.

[boogs]

What they will miss, due to corporate myopia, is that they don't understand the market they are in....

 

I had to read this comment twice before I believed what I was reading!! :confused:

 

To say that Celebrity doesn't understand a multi-billion dollar business model they have been successfully growing with the addition of five, highly regarded, award winning cruise ships, is ludicrous and complete nonsense.

[MicCanberra]

I don't think it will impact too much on me, however, time will tell. OBC was never much of an incentive for us as we rarely get it offered by our TAs in Australia unless we use internet TAs which are mainly overseas anyway.:D

[mom23guys]

I'm thinking a class action suit by either passenger or TA's is upcoming.

[sabookkeeper]

The only reason we book with a TA is to get the OBC and/or prepaid gratuities. If the TA's will no longer able to give this, there is no reason for us to book with them. As others have said, we might as well book directly with the cruise line.

[ghstudio]

I had to read this comment twice before I believed what I was reading!! :confused:

 

To say that Celebrity doesn't understand a multi-billion dollar business model they have been successfully growing with the addition of five, highly regarded, award winning cruise ships, is ludicrous and complete nonsense.

 

There is a long history of companies that don't understand their real market...the latest being Research in Motion (RIM) who thought their market was secure business communications, completely ignoring that users wanted to do more than just business applications.

 

Companies have a way of falling in love with their niche and not looking at the other alternatives....believing that the world doesn't change. Believe me, there are some wonderful alternatives to cruising (and we do a great deal of cruising).

[Shake]

I have never book with Carnival, even before this biased policy is about to go into effect, ""AND NOW"" going forward Carnival cruises will Never Ever be considered!

[Bridge Maven]

I'm thinking a class action suit by either passenger or TA's is upcoming.

 

Mom23guys - what possible grounds would there be for a class action suit?

 

 

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