If You Ran Food Service Corporate for HAL.........

[kazu]

They wouldn't need to 'divert crew' to Maasdam. She has an outstanding crew! They are wonderful.

 

 

I'll second that. She is now one of our 2nd favourites in the fleet:):) Didn't understand why she had such a following until I was on her;)

[Himself]

I like the main dining room as it is. Those who want fixed seatings get them on the upper level at 5: 30 and 8:15. The lower level is as you wish between 5:15 and 9:00 PM. I also would leave the casual dining in the Lido. I do not go into the specialty restaurants--my sugar is never low enough--but If I did, the one I would go to is the Pinnacle.

 

I would like them to offer beef Wellington one night on every cruise.

[BruceMuzz]

I wonder why, if only just over a third of HAL's cruise passengers prefer fixed dining and roughly that portion of the space in the MDR is assigned to fixed dining, we so frequently see reports on this board that it's so hard to get fixed dining and we hardly ever see reports that it's hard to get open dining?

 

Perhaps it wouldn't matter if HAL were a mass market line, but I, and many others, consider it to be a premium line.

 

You can consider HAL any type of cruise line you want to - but the HAL ships still have the same problem that most cruise ships have.

Since the 1980s, most cruise ships started getting too large to feed everyone at the same time.

So we had to start feeding you in shifts - like in a factory.

 

Due to size constraints, approximately half of the passengers need to eat earlier in the evening and approximately half need to eat later in the evening.

That's all fine and good for most cruises, and most cruisers.

 

However, occasionally a ship finds itself with a high number of very old passengers who want to eat their "supper" at 5pm so they can be in bed by 7pm.

At the same time, there are many children and families onboard who also want to eat early so they can get the kids to bed at an early hour.

This typically happens during every family holiday cruise (American Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, and Easter - as well as during several weeks in summer.

Depending on the cruise line and itinerary, this challenge happens about 10 weeks of the year on many mass market ships.

 

Under those conditions, no ship that carries over 500 passengers can accommodate all the passengers who want to dine early. It really doesn't matter whether they want fixed dining or open dining. There just are not enough tables to accommodate everyone dining at the same time.

 

Also depending on the cruise line and itinerary, this challenge DOES NOT happen about 42 weeks of the year on many mass market ships. For those 42 weeks, the ratio of 35% fixed dining requests (equally split between early and late seating), and 65% open dining requests (spread evenly from early to late dining) works just great.

[Pettifogger]

Mr. Muzz:

 

Thank you for educating us a bit, rather than letting us stumble around in ignorance as we usually have to do.

 

I gather that the problem cruises are largely predictable; on those, why couldn't they move both fixed dining hours forward enough to balance the demand? Surely, for some of the passengers it was a pretty close choice between the two seatings. Wouldn't fifteen minute advancements of both convince some of those that the later seating would be better for them? If 15 minutes wouldn't do it, maybe 30 would?

[sail7seas]

Mr. Muzz:

 

Thank you for educating us a bit, rather than letting us stumble around in ignorance as we usually have to do.

 

I gather that the problem cruises are largely predictable; on those, why couldn't they move both fixed dining hours forward enough to balance the demand? Surely, for some of the passengers it was a pretty close choice between the two seatings. Wouldn't fifteen minute advancements of both convince some of those that the later seating would be better for them? If 15 minutes wouldn't do it, maybe 30 would?

 

 

What about those who like having dinner at 8:00? That is our 'perfect time' for dinner on a cruise. We enjoy a leisurely cocktail before dinner and then going to dinner.

[canadarocks]

What about those who like having dinner at 8:00? That is our 'perfect time' for dinner on a cruise. We enjoy a leisurely cocktail before dinner and then going to dinner.

 

Agree. Our "dinner at 8" at our table for 2 is one of my favorite things about HAL! :cool:

[BruceMuzz]

Mr. Muzz:

 

Thank you for educating us a bit, rather than letting us stumble around in ignorance as we usually have to do.

 

I gather that the problem cruises are largely predictable; on those, why couldn't they move both fixed dining hours forward enough to balance the demand? Surely, for some of the passengers it was a pretty close choice between the two seatings. Wouldn't fifteen minute advancements of both convince some of those that the later seating would be better for them? If 15 minutes wouldn't do it, maybe 30 would?

 

It is true that the problem cruises are largely predictable.

Many cruise lines have experimented with moving the fixed dining times forward or backward to compensate. In most cases the idea has failed. Princess tried to make three fixed dining times every evening. They nearly had riots onboard.

 

Despite the fact that fewer than half the passengers want and use fixed dining, the times of the evening shows are still dictated by the fixed dining times. Moving the times even by 15 minutes has a huge effect on participation in the shows. Participation in the shows has a huge effect on the guest ratings for the onboard entertainment. Ratings for entertainment determine whether a Cruise Director keeps his job, the salary of the Captain and Hotel Manager, and many other ancillary issues.

 

I have never understood why North Americans MUST have dinner BEFORE seeing a show. The rest of the world is much more flexible and most really don't care which comes first.

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

 

Despite the fact that fewer than half the passengers want and use fixed dining, the times of the evening shows are still dictated by the fixed dining times. Moving the times even by 15 minutes has a huge effect on participation in the shows. Participation in the shows has a huge effect on the guest ratings for the onboard entertainment. Ratings for entertainment determine whether a Cruise Director keeps his job, the salary of the Captain and Hotel Manager, and many other ancillary issues.

 

I have never understood why North Americans MUST have dinner BEFORE seeing a show. The rest of the world is much more flexible and most really don't care which comes first.

 

 

Though I don't doubt it is true, why is Captain or Hotel Manager held answerable for qualilty/enjoyment of onboard entertainment?

 

Doesn't that fall more on the shoulders of headquarters as to who they hire, what entertainment they schedule and how they want it presented?

 

Why should Captain and Hotel Manager's compensation be impacted by poor entertainment choices by others? Or, in the alternative, to be rewarded for outstanding entertainment choices made by others? ;)

 

[canadarocks]

I have never understood why North Americans MUST have dinner BEFORE seeing a show. The rest of the world is much more flexible and most really don't care which comes first.

 

Speaking just for myself, I can tell you why we prefer the former. Although we love dining at 8:00pm (and the luxury it affords to relax after a day in port) we do not like retiring on a very full stomach. Having a relaxing dinner and then enjoying the later show gives us the best of all worlds. Time to digest while we are entertained. :cool:

[BruceMuzz]

What about those who like having dinner at 8:00? That is our 'perfect time' for dinner on a cruise. We enjoy a leisurely cocktail before dinner and then going to dinner.

 

You make a very good point.

Other than the very young and very elderly, EVERYONE in America wants to have dinner at 8pm.

Since most ships cannot feed more than 50% of the passengers at 8pm (or any other time), the other 50% would have to eat either at 6pm or 10pm. That just doesn't work for many of them. Anybody who likes to eat at 6:30, 7:00, 7:30, 8:30, 9:00, or 9:30 could not be accommodated if the ship accepted everyone who wants to eat at 8:00.

[BruceMuzz]

Though I don't doubt it is true, why is Captain or Hotel Manager held answerable for qualilty/enjoyment of onboard entertainment?

 

Doesn't that fall more on the shoulders of headquarters as to who they hire, what entertainment they schedule and how they want it presented?

 

Why should Captain and Hotel Manager's compensation be impacted by poor entertainment choices by others? Or, in the alternative, to be rewarded for outstanding entertainment choices made by others? ;)

 

 

For lack of a better reason, that's the way most cruise lines assign responsibility, and punish/reward poor/great performance and results.

[sail7seas]

You make a very good point.

Other than the very young and very elderly, EVERYONE in America wants to have dinner at 8pm.

Since most ships cannot feed more than 50% of the passengers at 8pm (or any other time), the other 50% would have to eat either at 6pm or 10pm. That just doesn't work for many of them. Anybody who likes to eat at 6:30, 7:00, 7:30, 8:30, 9:00, or 9:30 could not be accommodated if the ship accepted everyone who wants to eat at 8:00.

 

 

I thought there was a big demand for 6:00 pm traditional seating?

 

[BruceMuzz]

I thought there was a big demand for 6:00 pm traditional seating?

 

 

On traditional lines like Cunard, Crystal, and HAL there is a big demand for 6pm fixed seating when the average age goes up (longer cruises) and/or there are many passengers under age 10.

 

If you cruise the Med on these lines, the 6pm seating is often quiet and everybody wants to eat 8pm or later.

[peaches from georgia]

Did we ever find out why the Veendam in Bermuda changed MDR early seating time and moved it earlier by 15 minutes? I think it was reported it was changed to 5:15 and no one seemed to know why.

 

I know the complaint was it was way too early and pax were unhappy, especially being in Hamilton for 3 days where you can stay on the island all day and not have to rush back to the ship.

[RuthC]

Did we ever find out why the Veendam in Bermuda changed MDR early seating time and moved it earlier by 15 minutes? I think it was reported it was changed to 5:15 and no one seemed to know why.

Not that I've seen posted on this board.

[sail7seas]

On traditional lines like Cunard, Crystal, and HAL there is a big demand for 6pm fixed seating when the average age goes up (longer cruises) and/or there are many passengers under age 10.

 

If you cruise the Med on these lines, the 6pm seating is often quiet and everybody wants to eat 8pm or later.

 

 

Thanks. :)

When we cruised the Med, indeed, as usual for us we had the 8 pm seating and it was always packed.

 

[Pettifogger]

Since no one has either approved or criticized my suggestion about an additional Grand Voyage in post #49 above, I guess I'll have to do it

 

While Pettifogger's suggestion was interesting, it unfortunately lacked sufficient detail for us to properly evaluate it. If, instead of suggesting that HAL add a few more days in Europe to the Voyage of the Vikings, he had specified Copenhagen and Stockholm as the additional ports with a turnaround in Stockholm allowing for a two overnight stop there with leisurely cruises through the Stockholm Archipelago northbound the day before the stop and southbound the day after, he might have gotten some response.

 

While, unless further supplemented, it would be shorter than most Grand Voyages, with only one extended stop, it would offer a lot of relatively fresh ports, a visit to Europe that wouldn't require paying a high price for a night trying to sleep on a crowded airplane, and an extended visit to beautiful Stockholm and its archipelago, which rival Venice and Istanbul as an attractive place for an extended stop and which not as many GV type passengers have visited repeatedly.

 

Does anyone have a better idea for an additional Grand voyage?

 

Of course, the threshold question to which Pettifogger could only have guessed at the answer, is how the existing Grand Voyages are doing compared to the other HAL cruises. If they are doing well, then the sooner another one is added the better.

 

If they are not doing well compared to the other cruises, I'll be sorry I brought up the subject, because I'd hate to lose any of the existing Grand Voyages; they're the best bargain afloat and I'm going to need them for a few more years.

[thepoint]

On traditional lines like Cunard, Crystal, and HAL there is a big demand for 6pm fixed seating when the average age goes up (longer cruises) and/or there are many passengers under age 10.

 

If you cruise the Med on these lines, the 6pm seating is often quiet and everybody wants to eat 8pm or later.

 

We are only in our mid sixties, so I don't think we are old, but we are getting there. We just prefer to eat at the 6pm fixed seating in the MDR. We find it relaxing and the service is great. Plus, we get to go to the 8 pm show and then do whatever afterward. We are doing the 20 day Med cruise in Sept and I hope the 6 pm seating is quiet as you say, because I have read that the service is getting very slow. (We have been in many European countries where early bird was considered 6 to 8. We had to laugh at that, especially if you winter in Florida.)

[sail7seas]

Since no one has either approved or criticized my suggestion about an additional Grand Voyage in post #49 above, I guess I'll have to do it

 

While Pettifogger's suggestion was interesting, it unfortunately lacked sufficient detail for us to properly evaluate it. If, instead of suggesting that HAL add a few more days in Europe to the Voyage of the Vikings, he had specified Copenhagen and Stockholm as the additional ports with a turnaround in Stockholm allowing for a two overnight stop there with leisurely cruises through the Stockholm Archipelago northbound the day before the stop and southbound the day after, he might have gotten some response.

 

While, unless further supplemented, it would be shorter than most Grand Voyages, with only one extended stop, it would offer a lot of relatively fresh ports, a visit to Europe that wouldn't require paying a high price for a night trying to sleep on a crowded airplane, and an extended visit to beautiful Stockholm and its archipelago, which rival Venice and Istanbul as an attractive place for an extended stop and which not as many GV type passengers have visited repeatedly.

 

Does anyone have a better idea for an additional Grand voyage?

 

Of course, the threshold question to which Pettifogger could only have guessed at the answer, is how the existing Grand Voyages are doing compared to the other HAL cruises. If they are doing well, then the sooner another one is added the better.

 

If they are not doing well compared to the other cruises, I'll be sorry I brought up the subject, because I'd hate to lose any of the existing Grand Voyages; they're the best bargain afloat and I'm going to need them for a few more years.

 

 

JMO........

 

But I'd be very surprsied to find more than minimal changes to Voyage of the Viking. That is a popular cruise and has been for many years. It is my understanding it usually fills early.

 

HAL well may add a Grand Voyage for all I know but I don't think and I hope it won't be at the expense of extreme modification to VOV.

 

[LSEA]

I would be quite happy if informal was the suggested dress every evening. I prefer that over casual and formal.

[ASIWISH]

I wish things would return to a more structured, formal environment… I know it's not the popular opinion (and I respect that), but I so enjoy the pace and beauty of the formal nights.

 

(Hi, Sail!!!!)

[Monicaed]

Comments noted with interest. We are happy with present arrangements and enjoy flexible dining since we are not the best of socialites and afraid of incompatible companions when electing for fixed dining ( it has happened!)

 

Our experience of Tamarind restaurant on N.A. was excellent.:)

[Pettifogger]

It's interesting that i prefer fixed dining for the same reason you prefer open dining. It works out well for everyone because it tends to balance the demand.

[Scrapchick]

I'm one of the younger crowd (early 40's) but we actually prefer a 6PM fixed dinner, so we can go to the show and still get to bed at a reasonable hour... We don't like eating late particularly, or going to bed on a full stomach. Early works for us.

 

We do wish the dress code was enforced... I saw a couple turned away from casual dinner in very smart long shorts, yet also saw guys in jeans and shots being allowed into formal dinner.... Just no consistency and very frustrating to people who did abide by the dress code.

 

I would also like to see the Lido open all afternoon, not ending at 2PM.

 

I would also like to see the Lido area completely re-designed to get away from the galley style system on food delivery.... In our experience, islands work a lot better.

[Bob at Sea]

Chicken is takes to long to cook. As for Onion Rings they are only good right out of the cooker, they get soggy if kept warm. Burger and fries do me fine.