Jones Act Question

[AlaskaDay]

Could you do a B2B under this scenario and not violate the Jones Act -- 1 day Seattle to Vancouver; 7 day Vancouver to LA? If it doesn't violate Jones Act, how many cruises would you receive credit for -- 1 or 2? Trying to get to Platinum and the 1 day Seattle to Vancouver would really help. Thanks!

[fishywood]

If you are looking at back-to-back voyages on the same ship without disembarking for at least one day, then no, you cannot book this. The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) prohibits foreign-flagged ships from transporting passengers on a voyage from one US port to another without an intervening "distant foreign port" call. So you cannot begin your booking in Seattle while ending it in Los Angeles. However there are a large number of these one or two day voyages in or out of Vancouver in a very short period of time at the end of the Alsaka season, and yes, you do get Captains Circle credit for each one. Careful study of the cruise atlas would allow you to find a workable combination, though it could involve one night onshore.

 

And unless you were planning on sailing in packing crates rather than a stateroom, don't worry about the Jones Act; it applies to cargo only.

[paul929207]

Assuming they are consecutive cruises, you woul not be allowed to go Seattle to Vancouver to LA. It would violate the Passenger Vessel Service Act (Not Jones Act which deals with cargo).

[kylenyc]

Wow. Very interesting. Never knew of such a law existed. Would be unpleasant to be passed along the supposed $300 fine for attempting such a trip.

[paul929207]

Wow. Very interesting. Never knew of such a law existed. Would be unpleasant to be passed along the supposed $300 fine for attempting such a trip.

Most likely, you would be denied boarding for the second leg.

[Pam in CA]

Could you do a B2B under this scenario and not violate the Jones Act -- 1 day Seattle to Vancouver; 7 day Vancouver to LA? If it doesn't violate Jones Act, how many cruises would you receive credit for -- 1 or 2? Trying to get to Platinum and the 1 day Seattle to Vancouver would really help. Thanks!

It's not the Jones Act, which regulates cabotage and merchant seamen, but the Passenger Vessel Services Act. The PVSA was enacted over 100 years ago to protect US shipping and applies to foreign-flagged ships. Only one cruise ship sails in US waters and this is exempt from the Act.

 

You cannot embark in one US port and disembark in another, no matter how many B2Bs you put together on the same ship, without going to a "far" foreign port. "Far" does not include Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Central America. The law applies to passengers, not the ship. If an individual violates the Act, the ship is fined and they pass the fine along to the passenger. If the ship embarks and disembarks in the same US port, it must go to a "near" foreign port, which includes Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America.

 

Many consider the Act obsolete but it's still there to protect US airlines. That's why, for instance, you can't fly on British Airways, Lufthansa or Air France from NY to LA.

 

Your options when taking B2Bs is that you can change ships or stay overnight in port, thus technically, you embark a new cruise each time.

 

Most likely, you would be denied boarding for the second leg.

You wouldn't be able to book it and if you somehow did, you could be denied boarding.

[nukesubsailor]

Most likely, you would be denied boarding for the second leg.

 

I once tried to book b2b cruises similar to what the original poster described. Princess would not let me make the booking and explained the Passenger Services Act as the reason.

 

Personally, I think it is a law made just to please the unions and had the unforeseen consequence of helping end the registration of ships in the USA. I think it is a shame that the USA can't compete with other countries like Japan, Italy, Poland, etc in building new ships. But then it does result in making cruise ships stop in such thrilling ports as Encinada, Mexico. At least that helps the economy of Mexico.

[kylenyc]

* Me ziplining across Victoria Falls: http://travel.webshots.com/photo/298...00775782gsTdzc

+1 Like! I persuaded my mom to go zip lining with me in Costa Maya and we had a blast... But if it had been Victoria Falls I think I would have raced her back onto the tour bus :D

[kylenyc]

You wouldn't be able to book it and if you somehow did, you could be denied boarding.

Wouldn't want to be that passenger finding out too late :eek:

[caribill]

Personally, I think it is a law made just to please the unions and had the unforeseen consequence of helping end the registration of ships in the USA. I think it is a shame that the USA can't compete with other countries like Japan, Italy, Poland, etc in building new ships. But then it does result in making cruise ships stop in such thrilling ports as Encinada, Mexico. At least that helps the economy of Mexico.

 

The law is old enough that it has nothing to do with pleasing unions.

 

It was meant to preserve USA passenger ships long before cruising was an industry. The ships it was meant to preserve (other than ferries and Mississippi River boats) no longer exist.

 

And although it does apply to airplanes as mentioned in an earlier post, the act (1886) predates the Wright brothers.

[Pam in CA]

Personally, I think it is a law made just to please the unions and had the unforeseen consequence of helping end the registration of ships in the USA. I think it is a shame that the USA can't compete with other countries like Japan, Italy, Poland, etc in building new ships. But then it does result in making cruise ships stop in such thrilling ports as Encinada, Mexico. At least that helps the economy of Mexico.

Samuel Gompers didn't start the first labor union until 1886, the same year the Act was enacted. I kind of doubt the American Federation of Labor was strong enough for that type of political pressure as soon as it was created. As I said, the Act is now enforced for the benefit of commercial shipping and air lines. Cruise ships are minuscule compared to those. US shipbuilding can't compete with other countries because it costs a lot more to build the same thing elsewhere. Plus, I'd bet there are a lot more rules, regulations and red tape required to build a ship in the US.

[rdsqrl]

Personally, I think it is a law made just to please the unions and had the unforeseen consequence of helping end the registration of ships in the USA. . .

Personally, I think it's a shame that people are so lacking in historical knowledge that they think unions had that kind of (or any) political clout in 1886, the height of the Gilded Age. Somewhere out there, your former 11th-grade American history teacher just got a headache and doesn't know why.

[AlaskaDay]

It's not the Jones Act, which regulates cabotage and merchant seamen, but the Passenger Vessel Services Act. The PVSA was enacted over 100 years ago to protect US shipping and applies to foreign-flagged ships. Only one cruise ship sails in US waters and this is exempt from the Act.

 

You cannot embark in one US port and disembark in another, no matter how many B2Bs you put together on the same ship, without going to a "far" foreign port. "Far" does not include Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Central America. The law applies to passengers, not the ship. If an individual violates the Act, the ship is fined and they pass the fine along to the passenger. If the ship embarks and disembarks in the same US port, it must go to a "near" foreign port, which includes Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America.

 

Many consider the Act obsolete but it's still there to protect US airlines. That's why, for instance, you can't fly on British Airways, Lufthansa or Air France from NY to LA.

 

Your options when taking B2Bs is that you can change ships or stay overnight in port, thus technically, you embark a new cruise each time.

 

You wouldn't be able to book it and if you somehow did, you could be denied boarding.

 

Thanks, Pam -- As usual you cleared up the matter; you're the best! I suspected there may be a problem. Too bad, in addition one more cruise towards Platinum, airfare to Seattle is much cheaper than Vancouver and we could have had an extra day cruising. Still looking forward to the coastal next fall.

[RickEk]

Samuel Gompers didn't start the first labor union until 1886, the same year the Act was enacted. I kind of doubt the American Federation of Labor was strong enough for that type of political pressure as soon as it was created. As I said, the Act is now enforced for the benefit of commercial shipping and air lines. Cruise ships are minuscule compared to those. US shipbuilding can't compete with other countries because it costs a lot more to build the same thing elsewhere. Plus, I'd bet there are a lot more rules, regulations and red tape required to build a ship in the US.

 

US shipbuilding used to be among the best in the world. After World War II, we helped to rebuild other country's shipbuilding capabilities that were destroyed in the war and neglected our own. The US can certainly still build quality ships... it's just that those ships are warships. :(