The truth about cruise staff working conditions and pay?

[thebooler]

I'm beginning to think some of the people who want a "decent" wage just don't want to tip these people. If that's the case, don't cruise. This is the system in place at this time. You can show your support of your position by not cruising - oh wait, that means more workers will get laid off - and I'm I'm sure they'll appreciate your concern for them.

To be honest, and as harsh as it may seem, if I don't want to go on a cruise, I couldn't really care less about the staffing levels of the cruise companies.

[thebooler]

I can only comment on the UK Income tax. A UK citizen working at sea (including cruise ships) who works away for a qualifying period in a fiscal year can claim the Seafarers Earnings Deduction. This means all income (salary, commission, & tips) is exempt from UK tax and is not taxed by other tax authorities either.

 

One 6 month contract would not be enough to qualify.

 

The likelihood is that this applies to all nationalities and includes senior officers

Thanks for that.

[lauralou2]

We watched the Dispatches programme on Monday night it was biased and did'nt tell the full story , neither did it tell us things we did'nt already know .We cruise with Celebrity and Princess and we always book select or anytime dining this means an automatic gratuity charge on Celebrity , which we pay up front with our final payment and auto tips added to our account on Princess , which we do not remove , it's not right to tar all uk travellers with the same brush how can we say that all American and many other different nationality cruisers leave the auto tip on , we don't really know . We enjoy cruising on American ships and meeting the diverse mix of passengers it's being different that makes us all interesting [ or not , maybe ] Next cruise Grand Princess 22nd October can't wait :)

[Aus Traveller]

How many days paid holidays are included in your friends 2-3 months off? I'd assume at least 30 days, as is the norm?

None. The time off are not paid holidays. Crew work a contract period (10 or 8 months) and they are paid for that time, are transported from their home base to the ship (and return). The remuneration for the months of the contract are sufficient that they do not need paid leave. I have had a figure of roughly $1000 per month quoted for some waiters (after tips are added to base wage). Citizens of all (or nearly all) the countries involved do not pay income tax when they work outside of their own country for a period. (With Australia that is 90 days). Keep in mind board, food and medical care are supplied by the cruiseline without cost to the crew. Crew do have to buy their own uniforms and launder them (unless they pay a small amount to someone else to have them done).

 

They are not permitted to work more than 70 hours in a week (maximum 10 hours per day) and must have at least 6 continuous hours off per day. Very often when the ship is in port, crew will be able to have several hours ashore, depending on their duties. I think all the cabin stewards would be able to get off after they finish cleaning the cabins, but some waiters would have to stay on board for lunchtime duties.

[Bobbyjean]

I was a little confused by the program - what did the guy who worked there for 5 weeks actually earn in the end (after deductions for uniform etc.)? If this guy worked on the ship for enough months of the year, is it true he would not have to pay income tax?

 

Now how much would a waiter in the UK earn working the same hours?

 

I wonder how the take-home pay of a UK-based waiter would compare to one on a cruise ship - of course we also need to take into account room and board - a land-based waiter in a cheap shared flat would pay maybe £300 a month for rent and bills, plus £200 for food and transport to work?

 

The cruise line also seemed to be blatantly breaking a few laws, such as working with agencies which charge illegal fees to workers and forcing new recruits to work 100 hours a week including training. It should be very easy to sue them with witness statements from a few 100 ex-employees if this is true. Potential major payout for some lawyers somewhere!!!

[Bobbyjean]

Well to answer my own question a waiter working at min. wage 70 hours a week in the UK would have take-home pay of £1390 a month. So far better off than one working on a cruise ship, even after subtracting rent and food costs.

 

We certainly are lucky to live in this country and have decent job opportunities.

[Esprit]

Some clarfications regarding that programme.

 

Contracts are passed out on the day of boarding

Training is mandatory for all new crew and lasts a week

They do have to pay for their uniforms

Cabin stewards can only work on passenger cabins once promoted from being crew cabin cleaners or other general ship cleaners.

Food is free and drinks are subsidised

No one gets a day off work

Not all crew members use an agency to get a job with Celebrity

Crew can smoke in their cabins with the express permission of their room mate or smoke in the corridors.

[Ma Bell]

It may "work" for the great majority of cruisers, but does this make it right? Would you be happy in a job where your earnings were directly determined by the customer?

 

All employees should be paid a decent wage by their employer. Tips and gratuities for services rendered should be an "extra".

 

I appreciate the difference in tipping "culture" between the states and the UK, but I prefer the UK way. Every waiter/waitress/ bar person/cleaner gets a minimum wage no matter where they work or for whom. Tips received after this are normally in the event of someone going above and beyond the call of duty to ensure someone has an enjoyable experience.

 

Cruise companies use the "flag of convenience" excuse to avoid acting within certain laws which pertain to our various different countries.

 

To answer your question..yes. I've spent the great majority of my working life depending on myself for what I earn. Some of my first employment as a young person in school was as a waitress. I loved it because I could always earn much more than minimum wage by doing a great job.

 

For the last 40 years, I've worked almost exclusively in businesses that pay commission. No wage, no insurance benefits, no retirement benefits and no paid vacation unless I earn it myself. The same holds true for my husband for the last 35 years. He gave up working as a Pharmacist to join me as a commissioned worker. It's having to make your own way without job security, but with the opportunity to earn much more than possible in salaried jobs. It's not for everyone, but working for "tips" as a young person certainly showed me that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

[Jimmys Chippy]

All she is saying is that when Celebrity is selling into the UK market and we are paying in sterling they should quote fully inclusive prices in accordance with UK practice.

 

You're only getting a quote, Celebrity don't turn round after your credit card has been charged and then say "Oh, by the way, there's tax and gratuities to pay as well". Whenever I ask for a quote from a UK travel agency they always ask if I want gratuities included, then I get the grand total of how much it will all cost I decide if that price is good for me.

[AllaGeorge]

What has not been made clear in neither the television programme nor in the posts on these boards is the difference between the basic tips/gratuities [i.e. the recommended daily amount deducted automatically unless you stop them] and additional tips/gratuities made by guests. .

 

Sue

 

Well said! As one who has pre paid gratuities on my cruises and who has tipped in addition for service that was earned, this makes sense. The gratuities are also distributed to workers that are in the background and are deserving as well. Tips go directly to the person who has excelled. Now the only other problem I have with the information given in this documentary was the fact that the cruise line took part of the "gratuities" for processing fees. That seems a bit over the top to maximize profits for the ship.

[juggles]

Austraveller said....

A previous post mentioned "working 14 hours a day". That might have been mentioned on the infamous TV show. The maximum staff can work is 10 hours for a seven day a week schedule. This is the maximum and includes any training required.

 

........................................

 

That's not exactly true. One cruise that someone worked on, a lot of the crew were doing 16 hour days whilst others were doing 8. That wasn't mentioned on the 'show'. But I know it to be fact. You see, rules are being broken but who does one complain to, there are no unions on cruise ships, so I guess staff have to shut up and carry on

[Esprit]

Austraveller said....

A previous post mentioned "working 14 hours a day". That might have been mentioned on the infamous TV show. The maximum staff can work is 10 hours for a seven day a week schedule. This is the maximum and includes any training required.

 

........................................

 

That's not exactly true. One cruise that someone worked on, a lot of the crew were doing 16 hour days whilst others were doing 8. That wasn't mentioned on the 'show'. But I know it to be fact. You see, rules are being broken but who does one complain to, there are no unions on cruise ships, so I guess staff have to shut up and carry on

 

Once again you are talking rubbish

 

Cabin stewards earn so much they can afford to pay crew cabin cleaners to help them. It's then their choice if they want to work more hours than required.

 

Many crew members are happy to keep themselves active (including work) rather than be bored doing nothing on board. I know crew members that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they were given a day off. The ports are so repetitive they can't even be bothered to get off unless they want to go to a free internet cafe or stock up at a local supermarket for toiletries etc.

[Corinium]

You're only getting a quote, Celebrity don't turn round after your credit card has been charged and then say "Oh, by the way, there's tax and gratuities to pay as well". Whenever I ask for a quote from a UK travel agency they always ask if I want gratuities included, then I get the grand total of how much it will all cost I decide if that price is good for me.

 

Hi Jimmy, Good to see you've followed me across from the other thread on this topic. Hope you've tracked down the extra 30 quid that Celebrity charged you last time you booked through their web site !

My beef is that the up front advertised price should be fully inclusive of all charges so that I can compare prices with other cruises that I may be interested in. When you see something advertised in a shop in Lancashire e.g. a new TV, do you expect the price to be fully inclusive or are you happy for the salesman to say "Oh by the way, there's VAT and my bonus to pay as well and they're not optional. After all the price in the shop window was only a quote" ?

[Christine Frances]

In Canada when we see a new TV advertised we know the "VAT" is not included and will be added to the final total. Just the way it has always been here - never even thought about it before. The VAT is not a "surprise" charge and most of us can easily calculate in our heads what the amount would be. As you say - different cultures:) And Canada also has a minimum wage policy for servers etc and with the added tips (10-20%) they probably do better than UK servers that apparently don't get tips. It boils down to what everyone is used to I guess:) We will be in England next year and we will conform with your tipping policy.

[Corinium]

In Canada when we see a new TV advertised we know the "VAT" is not included and will be added to the final total. Just the way it has always been here - never even thought about it before. The VAT is not a "surprise" charge and most of us can easily calculate in our heads what the amount would be. As you say - different cultures:) And Canada also has a minimum wage policy for servers etc and with the added tips (10-20%) they probably do better than UK servers that apparently don't get tips. It boils down to what everyone is used to I guess:) We will be in England next year and we will conform with your tipping policy.

 

Hi Christine, I spent some time in Canada (Ottawa) several years ago and found it a bit bewildering at first when I found that the advertised prices were quoted ex sales taxes. My first experience was buying a $10 phone card in the airport and being charged $11.50 Of course there was GST and PST and realising that PST can be different from one Province to the next. And the minimum expected tip in a restaurant was 15%

Enjoy your trip to the UK next year. You'll find it quite straightforward !

[Karynanne]

Hi Christine, I spent some time in Canada (Ottawa) several years ago and found it a bit bewildering at first when I found that the advertised prices were quoted ex sales taxes. My first experience was buying a $10 phone card in the airport and being charged $11.50 Of course there was GST and PST and realising that PST can be different from one Province to the next. And the minimum expected tip in a restaurant was 15%

Enjoy your trip to the UK next year. You'll find it quite straightforward !

 

Different customs for different cultures. Each country has it's methods for advertising. Most frequent cruisers know that here in the U.S. an advertised cruise fare doesn't includes taxes and port charges. Our particular T.A. does quote a fee that does include all pricing (excluding tips), but not all do. It's a matter of preference.

 

And when shopping in our stores, our tax rates can vary from county to county. Some 8.25% or 10%. And the same pertains to tipping. In San Francisco an expected 20% is customary. We know this and pay accordingly.

[thebooler]

None. The time off are not paid holidays. Crew work a contract period (10 or 8 months) and they are paid for that time, are transported from their home base to the ship (and return). The remuneration for the months of the contract are sufficient that they do not need paid leave. I have had a figure of roughly $1000 per month quoted for some waiters (after tips are added to base wage). Citizens of all (or nearly all) the countries involved do not pay income tax when they work outside of their own country for a period. (With Australia that is 90 days). Keep in mind board, food and medical care are supplied by the cruiseline without cost to the crew. Crew do have to buy their own uniforms and launder them (unless they pay a small amount to someone else to have them done).

 

They are not permitted to work more than 70 hours in a week (maximum 10 hours per day) and must have at least 6 continuous hours off per day. Very often when the ship is in port, crew will be able to have several hours ashore, depending on their duties. I think all the cabin stewards would be able to get off after they finish cleaning the cabins, but some waiters would have to stay on board for lunchtime duties.

 

Thanks for the info. It would seem they actually have quite a decent standard of living.

 

Maybe they don't need those tips as much as some people make out after all?

[Christine Frances]

Thanks for the info. It would seem they actually have quite a decent standard of living.

 

Maybe they don't need those tips as much as some people make out after all?

 

Seriously? 8 months work for $8000! While pretty good wages in their home county, they work long hours and still need our tips to support their families.

[sandancer]

In Canada when we see a new TV advertised we know the "VAT" is not included and will be added to the final total. Just the way it has always been here - never even thought about it before. The VAT is not a "surprise" charge and most of us can easily calculate in our heads what the amount would be. As you say - different cultures:) And Canada also has a minimum wage policy for servers etc and with the added tips (10-20%) they probably do better than UK servers that apparently don't get tips. It boils down to what everyone is used to I guess:) We will be in England next year and we will conform with your tipping policy.

Not true to say that UK servers don't get tips. They don't usually get 18 to 20% which is usual in North America. Tonight I ate dinner with a couple of my friends and the bill was £62. We left £70. that would be considered a decent tip. I would never consider not leaving a tip if the service was acceptable. Same as I would never stiff the crew on our cruises, and I don't believe that Brits as a rule are mean. Certainly some are but I hope that we don't all have to be tarred with the same brush.

[Aus Traveller]

Seriously? 8 months work for $8000! While pretty good wages in their home county, they work long hours and still need our tips to support their families.

Sorry - I made a mistake in my previous post. The figure I was told was that waiters could early up to $1,000 per week (including tips) but that is only for the length of the contract. I read a post a couple of days ago where someone said that his friend who is a waiter would get $3,000 to $4,000 per month so the amount is similar. sorry I can't find the post. With a 10 month contract followed by 2 months without pay, then it would work out at $833 per week.

 

If people feel the amount I was told is grossly overstated, just consider that someone else posted that a server in a land-based restaurant can earn $100,000 a year, that is $2,000 a week with tips. How many times on this forum have you read people comment that they tipped the waiter (or steward) $100? A waiter works a few tables and has two dinner sittings so how many people are there to tip him/her? Maybe the $100 tip is unusually high, but if that was for a 7 day cruise, and most of the people tipped him/her extra in addition to his/her proportion of the auto tip, the waiter isn't doing too badly.

 

By the way, I believe they deserve it, but they are not working for 'slave wages.' I am also not saying that they all the amount that I have quoted.

[Christine Frances]

<snip>By the way, I believe they deserve it, but they are not working for 'slave wages.' I am also not saying that they all the amount that I have quoted.<snip>

 

I agree:)

[navyrotorhead]

 

I guess my suggestion is if you don't like the business, don't patronize it.

 

It doesn't get any more succinct and to the point than THAT! :)

[Aus Traveller]

Austraveller said....

A previous post mentioned "working 14 hours a day". That might have been mentioned on the infamous TV show. The maximum staff can work is 10 hours for a seven day a week schedule. This is the maximum and includes any training required.

 

........................................

 

That's not exactly true. One cruise that someone worked on, a lot of the crew were doing 16 hour days whilst others were doing 8. That wasn't mentioned on the 'show'. But I know it to be fact. You see, rules are being broken but who does one complain to, there are no unions on cruise ships, so I guess staff have to shut up and carry on

I don't know which cruiseline had a lot of the crew doing 16 hours days. I know that on Princess all crew have to fill out time sheets every day that stipulate that the maximum hours that can be worked in any one day is 14 and that the maximum in a 7 day period is 70. :) Because stewards and waiters work every day (we see the same people:)) it is reasonable to say that the maximum they work each day is ten. On cruises I have been on the cabin stewards start work at 7am (sometimes later) and finish between 12 and 1pm, then start again at 5 and work until around 8pm. Several have told me they have to finish by 9pm. Cabin stewards have to keep to this schedule every day for their whole contract unless they have a sick day.

[whistlerbc]

The programme has clearly hit a nerve with lots of people and has indeed provoked the discussion intended. Well done channel 4........

 

I cannot however, figure out what makes people behave so rudely towards others on a forum?! If some of you are so 'human rights' orientated then why don't you spend your energy creating opportunities, basic pay, working hours directives and laws in places like Burma? Then these lovely people wouldn't have to leave their families to work long hours as waiters and cabin stewards serving you for the wage system you disagree with so much! It is in my opinion pure ignorance to be pitying people that choose to work in the cruise industry and instead of the 'he said, she said' on here why don't you take time to chat to the people that serve you on your next cruise and you might just learn something!!

[CostaSmurfette]

It appears that crew are not at all happy with the way they were portrayed in the documentary....they are very unimpressed...

 

From time to time big media corporations will go behind the scenes of crewmembers life’s onboard a cruise ship. This subject is so exotic, its like something completely awkward is going on in the decks below. Most common subject that sells to the media is the sex, drugs, crew partys, low wages, long working hours and months away from their families. Recent report on Channel 4 Dispatches programme "Cruises Under Cover” proves the same cliché over and over. In this programme undercover reporter was working on Celebrity Eclipse for one month and describes his experience and the experience of the crewmembers he meet onboard.

 

Now for Us as a crewmembers is a humiliating and degrading that some reporter comes for one month and tells the story about Our life onboard a cruise ship. .....

 

Read the full version : http://crew-center.com/channel-4-story-behind-story-truth-about-life-cruise-ship

 

Some of the comments underneath the piece are enlightening too...many crew are angry about the film and what it alleged.