American passenger unaccounted for on Veendam cruise

[kazu]

Thanks very much for the update. I do hope she is found safe

[CtheW0rld]

Your statement that HAL has a lot of explaining to do regarding security procedures when a Psgr is missing is ludicrous!

 

Why in heavens name would you expect Holland American to issue a public statement regarding procedures followed when a Psgr goes missing? And how do you know that the U.S. authorities are not involved?

 

There may very well be a question of Security which could be compromised & or privacy issues of the Psgr & her Family..

 

HAL may have been ordered not to issue any statements from the Family, the U.S. & Canadian Authorities or even their Insurance Company..We will never know..

 

Betty

 

there is a HUGE question of security here. if a pax can get off a ship unnoticed someone can get ON unnoticed, also. very scarey.

 

we read frequently about a pax/crew going overboard - and it is made public almost immediatly. all i know is that if i went missing, i would want it broadcast far and wide. i smell a cover-up here.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Here is an update on the missing passenger http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/09/ns-cruise-missing-woman.html

 

quoted in part: "The Louisiana woman was travelling alone, said Halifax Regional Police Const. Pierre Bourdages.

 

"She was last seen by a crew member on board the ship, so it took time for them to realize she was not on board the ship any more," he said Tuesday.

 

"She left the ship without the crew's knowledge or security's knowledge on board."

 

Erik Elvejord, a spokesman for Holland America, said a ship-wide search was conducted for Powell..."

 

Thank you for the update.

Prayers that they will find her and that she is safe.

[Krazy Kruizers]

When I travel solo onboard, before I go ashore I often tell the front office or concierge where I'm going, depending on the port/country. Either I write it down for them or they do it, but my name, cabin number, cell phone # and approximate plans ("shopping downtown") are recorded.

 

This is an excellent idea for solo cruisers.

[mamaofami]

Since it seems to me to be impossible to get off the ship without scanning your key card(so many security people there) what happens in the computer when the card is scanned? Doesn't it register you have left the ship? In this case, it might have malfunctioned since it would have been known to security that the passenger did not return to the ship. Is it possible they knew and after waiting x amount of time, the ship left without her?

[lindaler]

I googled to see if there was any new information about the missing passenger from Louisiana who was last seen Sept. 30. and all I could find was about a 20 year old Tennessee woman who went overboard Sept. 17. Her search was ended after two days. I was wondering how many go missing and we don't hear about it. I hope that the Louisiana women is safe and just wanted a change in her life and not that foul play happened.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Since it seems to me to be impossible to get off the ship without scanning your key card(so many security people there) what happens in the computer when the card is scanned? Doesn't it register you have left the ship? In this case, it might have malfunctioned since it would have been known to security that the passenger did not return to the ship. Is it possible they knew and after waiting x amount of time, the ship left without her?

 

Yes, the computer "knows" that you're leaving the ship. The problem could be that the card didn't scan properly and nobody noticed. Or I guess it could have double-scanned (leaving, then returning--beep-beep instead of a single beep). If it was crowded or there was a lot of noise at the gangway, it's possible that the scan error didn't get caught, so she left the ship but the computer records showed her as on the ship.

 

Or she went overboard and the land search was a matter of hoping for the best, since it was too late to go back and search the water. Although if security cameras didn't catch anyone going overboard, the likely answer is she left at a port without being noticed.

[vicocala]

I googled to see if there was any new information about the missing passenger from Louisiana who was last seen Sept. 30. and all I could find was about a 20 year old Tennessee woman who went overboard Sept. 17. Her search was ended after two days. I was wondering how many go missing and we don't hear about it. I hope that the Louisiana women is safe and just wanted a change in her life and not that foul play happened.

 

There is a thread about that subject. It appears she may of jumped. To see more look under the RCI section about the mother filing suit.

[vicocala]

The information about the medications seem to suggest she may have mental illness or perhaps some form of dementia. My prayers go out to her and her family.

 

I wonder if she had regular dinner seating as well? If so, you would think her dinner companions may of noticed. :confused:

[solocanadian]

Still can't understand why the cabin stewards did not report her absence. Also find it strange Copper 10-8 hasn't chimed in explaining the card reader system when you board and leave the ship.:confused:

[cccole]

Yes, the computer "knows" that you're leaving the ship. The problem could be that the card didn't scan properly and nobody noticed. Or I guess it could have double-scanned (leaving, then returning--beep-beep instead of a single beep). If it was crowded or there was a lot of noise at the gangway, it's possible that the scan error didn't get caught, so she left the ship but the computer records showed her as on the ship.

 

Or she went overboard and the land search was a matter of hoping for the best, since it was too late to go back and search the water. Although if security cameras didn't catch anyone going overboard, the likely answer is she left at a port without being noticed.

 

I'm curious. When the card is scanned is the time of the scanning left on the computer, and if it beeped twice would the cruise line know that the exit and return to the ship were within seconds of each other? I don't know what info is filed away in the computer when the card is scanned. Cherie

[peaches from georgia]

Still can't understand why the cabin stewards did not report her absence. Also find it strange Copper 10-8 hasn't chimed in explaining the card reader system when you board and leave the ship.:confused:

He may not be free to explain or discuss any of the ships' security measures or in any way involve himself as an officer with theories on a pax disappearance or how it could have happened. This might very well become a legal matter for the cruiseline.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'm curious. When the card is scanned is the time of the scanning left on the computer, and if it beeped twice would the cruise line know that the exit and return to the ship were within seconds of each other? I don't know what info is filed away in the computer when the card is scanned. Cherie

 

I think that the early systems just knew who was on the ship and who was off. That's the way the QE2 system was explained to me when it was new (2000). Security was under the First Officer. He said they had some issues with double scans, which put passengers out of sync with reality, which is what I think may have happened to this woman. It took security crew a while to get the knack of scanning the bar code, listening for the beep, looking at the passenger's face, and looking at the face on the screen. That's a lot to do in about a second when the line is long and passengers are antsy.

 

With computer systems having so much more memory, there probably is a record of the time of each scan. It would be interesting to know this, and also how long those records are kept. It might be that they clear the records after the ship leaves a port, so that the memory is available for the next stop. I don't know if this is true, just a guess on my part.

[cccole]

Thank you for a little history and info. I think when we swipe a credit card it gives our life history. I assume that QE2 was not behind in technological advances and I had no idea that the card swiping system was not used until 2000 on ships. Thank you, Cherie

[solocanadian]

He may not be free to explain or discuss any of the ships' security measures or in any way involve himself as an officer with theories on a pax disappearance or how it could have happened. This might very well become a legal matter for the cruiseline.

You are no doubt right, Peaches.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Thank you for a little history and info. I think when we swipe a credit card it gives our life history. I assume that QE2 was not behind in technological advances and I had no idea that the card swiping system was not used until 2000 on ships. Thank you, Cherie

 

Other lines may have had such systems earlier. I remember this cruise in 2000 because we were at an officer's table, and he told us about it. She was an older ship, used keys to get into the cabins right until the end. So they didn't have a swipe card system in place that they could expand to a security check. We did have cruise cards to use in the ship and the bars before then, but I don't remember how the system worked. I just knew I could buy drinks and souvenirs, so I was happy.

[serendipity1499]

The information about the medications seem to suggest she may have mental illness or perhaps some form of dementia. My prayers go out to her and her family.

 

I wonder if she had regular dinner seating as well? If so, you would think her dinner companions may of noticed. :confused:

 

Why would someone assume it was a mental illness? Could it be a physical illness such as a diabetic or someone who is prone to seizures?

Still can't understand why the cabin stewards did not report her absence. Also find it strange Copper 10-8 hasn't chimed in explaining the card reader system when you board and leave the ship.:confused:

 

I don't find it strange at all & Maybe the cabin Stewards did report her absence after one or two nights..HAL apparently made a comment that the ship was searched..

 

Completely agree with Peaches..Can understand why Copper10-8 has not been able to weigh in on this thread..

It certainly is possible that he is not in a position to make a comment about how HAL's computers & the scanning process works & also understand why HAL's comments have not been disseminated to the public..

I'm retired from the International Airline Field in a Management position & if I ever made a Public comment about security, a missing Psgr, one which had an accident, & even when our Company had a serious accident, I would have immediately been relieved of my duties, & lost all of my benefits.:eek:

I was even restricted on commenting publicly about any of our employees work habits, attitude, &/or attendance.. When we evaluated them it was done privately, with only their immediate Supervisor, the Employee & a Manager present..

Only once, when I had to go into court on behalf of my company & only after I was sworn in, was I permitted to Publicly comment about an employee's work & attendance habits..

Anyone who has been employeed by a large corporation & even those who have been in small businesses understand the privacy issues..

 

Betty

[Salacia]

[/b]

 

I bolded your statement! What a nasty thing to say! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: But you are right that my Family & I would really appreciate it if you would not ask any questions as it is None of Your Business, if I should go missing, or have an accident! And those who are smart, would not broadcast it on a public message board!

 

The press has no such restrictions!

 

Betty

 

Betty, this isn't about you (or me, for that matter). This is about a missing American passenger that police in Canada have asked the public for any information regarding her where abouts since she was last seen on the Veendam September 30th.

 

But clearly you and I have differing opinions regarding a desired course of action -If, God forbid, I went missing from a cruise ship, I would hope that every possible effort was made to find me - including public dissemination of any detail that the authorities feel might aid in my safe return - including, but not limited to postings on public message boards, especially those relating to the ship where I was last seen.

 

It is a well known fact that there have been passengers who have gone missing from cruise ships; this is an issue that is of concern to civic minded people, especially those of us who enjoy taking ocean voyages and who share a concern for safety and security on board ships.

 

Salacia

[Tampa Girl]

Betty, this isn't about you (or me, for that matter). This is about a missing American passenger that police in Canada have asked the public for any information regarding her where abouts since she was last seen on the Veendam September 30th.

 

But clearly you and I have differing opinions regarding a desired course of action -If, God forbid, I went missing from a cruise ship, I would hope that every possible effort was made to find me - including public dissemination of any detail that the authorities feel might aid in my safe return - including, but not limited to postings on public message boards, especially those relating to the ship where I was last seen.

 

Salacia

 

 

Betty wasn't expressing an opinion. She was stating what is the usual protocol, in her experience. You may not like that protocol, but it is what it is.

[geocruiser]

Some posters have said that there could have been trouble scanning her card. Which could have happened. But what I would like to know so many PAX scan their cards each day in port, and if some are scanned wrong they(PAX) don't go missing. What are the chances of the card not being scanned right combined with a person going missing?

Odd, to me.

[sail7seas]

I don't remember the ship or the port but it was within the last two or so years.

DH and I were in our cabin awaiting departure from a port when we heard his name broadcast on the speaker requesting he please contact the front office immediately.

 

Of course, it got us a little nervous and he complied immediately.

 

They were verifying he was aboard the ship as they showed him not scanned on.

He had absolutely had his card scanned when he returned to the ship with me after some time in port. I was with him and saw his card scanned. Apparently, there is some '

error rate' that the computer misses a card and he was shown as being off the ship.

 

It happens and they know it and thus the confusion as to whether the woman had left the ship by way of the gangway or not.

 

[sail7seas]

Some posters have said that there could have been trouble scanning her card. Which could have happened. But what I would like to know so many PAX scan their cards each day in port, and if some are scanned wrong they(PAX) don't go missing. What are the chances of the card not being scanned right combined with a person going missing?

Odd, to me.

 

 

I agree the odds are small but so is being struck by lightening........ and surviving it but it happens.

 

[goodearth]

It is a very common practice to 'ask for help' when a missing person is not found early on. Ask anyone with SAR (Search and Rescue).......you don't just deploy and then NOT tell local resources and the public that the person is missing. IF YOU DON'T FIND THE PERSON you get a call out to all possible agencies and news organizations that can aid in the search by publicizing that someone is missing. We have amber alerts for exactly that reason! Geez, Louise. Some folks on this board think they know everything about everything......well, you don't. If the family didn't want to find her.......then they would be in the line of questioning about what happened. In the mean time, don't blame the press, or anyone else if you don't like how it works...........and BTW, nice job speculating on the medical condition. No one knows what it is, but most conditions are time dependent in SAR operations. That's why they look everywhere to find the missing person.

[serendipity1499]

I agree the odds are small but so is being struck by lightening........ and surviving it but it happens.

 

 

Oh my..Your post brings back a sad memory..A young 14 year old was struck by lightning on a school football field, last Wed....It was a beautiful day with no signs of storms within miles..He was airlifted to Tampa & sadly passed away on Sunday..

So many of his classmates & adults here in Southwest Fla are devastated by this accident..

 

Betty

[serendipity1499]

It is a very common practice to 'ask for help' when a missing person is not found early on. Ask anyone with SAR (Search and Rescue).......you don't just deploy and then NOT tell local resources and the public that the person is missing. IF YOU DON'T FIND THE PERSON you get a call out to all possible agencies and news organizations that can aid in the search by publicizing that someone is missing. We have amber alerts for exactly that reason! Geez, Louise. Some folks on this board think they know everything about everything......well, you don't. If the family didn't want to find her.......then they would be in the line of questioning about what happened. In the mean time, don't blame the press, or anyone else if you don't like how it works...........and BTW, nice job speculating on the medical condition. No one knows what it is, but most conditions are time dependent in SAR operations. That's why they look everywhere to find the missing person.

 

I completely agree with you about amber alerts, police searches & Search & Rescue Operations..

However you are completely missing the points I made..The immediate family or HAL had to request the help before such an operation was begun by the Police...

I am not questioning the {police or those who are handling the SAR operation at all but I do take exception to this statement:

Quote A missing US citizen in a foreign port should also involve US Authorities, no?

 

I don't want to speculate on what might have happened to the missing passenger, I just hope she is found safe and unharmed. Holland America has a lot of explaining to do regarding the procedures followed when a passenger (solo or otherwise) goes missing. Unquote.

How does the poster know that the U.S. Authorities are not involved? Why would posters on a public message board expect that HAL would be answering to them & explaining about their Security procedures? Surely they don't have to explain to us! Another poster is assuming that the lady in question has a mental illness or dementia..How do they know that the lady doesn't have have a physical illness which requires immediate medication?

The Police are handling this & none of us know what HAL has told them & that is the way it should be until the family or HAL decides to make a Public statement..

I'm also not questioning the press, as they are entitled to release anything which is made public by the Police..

 

I don't pretend to know it all, but I do know how important it is not to divulge security procedures, since I was well versed in Security procedures at one of the busiest airports in the world JFK, & have many Friends still in the business..

Betty