Ryndam For Sale?

[Randyk47]

And while it's not HAL it IS HAL Management... Ready for something that will totally blow your mind?

 

HAL/Seabourn is selling the Seabourn "triplets"

 

THREE SMALL LUXURY CRUISE SHIPS FOR SALE

PRICE USD 90 MILLION ‘EN BLOC’

INDIVIDUAL SALES POSSIBLE

FULL DETAILS TO NAMED BUYERS

ALL HAVE 200 PASSENGER BERTHS

ALL BUILT LATE 1980’S

 

http://www.marine-consultant.com/p502.htm

 

Biggest part is they are looking to sell all 3. (Note "en bloc")

 

Wow! That's half of the Seabourn fleet! I've just started considering Seabourn as an alternative to HAL and having not cruised on Seabourn I don't know much about them but wonder how, or even if, they intend to replace those ships? I haven't spent much time over in the Seabourn section of Cruise Critic so maybe my answer is there. On the other hand even HAL, if indeed the sale of one of more of the S class ships is true, hasn't exactly been forthcoming with their long range plans other than they apparently have at least one large ship planned. Kind of wonder if we're going to go through a period of downsizing. I know that the upscale lines like Seabourn and Silversea has struggled the last few years so it would make more sense for those small lines with smaller ships and a more focused client base to downsize though I've not seen any news about Silversea trying to sell off it's older, smaller ships.

[sail7seas]

Seabourn is now managed by HAL and many of the same people who make the decisions at/for HAL are doing so at and for Seabourn. One has to think there is some 'interchangeable' thinking as to how a decision at one line may be taken into consideration for the other.

 

IMO

[Randyk47]

Seabourn is now managed by HAL and many of the same people who make the decisions at/for HAL are doing so at and for Seabourn. One has to think there is some 'interchangeable' thinking as to how a decision at one line may be taken into consideration for the other.

 

IMO

 

I'm not sure if I'm reassured by that or not. :eek::) Obviously there are business decisions that are common to both lines but they are, at least in my view, very different products. Kind of like applying Carnival Cruise Line decisions to Holland America using the same business model....not comforting. :(

[sail7seas]

I'm not sure if I'm reassured by that or not. :eek::) Obviously there are business decisions that are common to both lines but they are, at least in my view, very different products. Kind of like applying Carnival Cruise Line decisions to Holland America using the same business model....not comforting. :(

 

I fully agree.

 

There was a time when I thought HAL run totally independently of Carnival but it is a little less clear these days.

 

Not to say, we are not still fully enjoying our HAL cruises but there are clearly some things that look very much like Princess and Carnival that did not in the past. There has been some 'blurring' of the brands IMO

 

Inevitably, Seabourn will have to look more like HAL/Princess/Carnival in some perhaps small ways.

If they were doing just fine on their own, they would still be on their own, I imagine.

 

[Randyk47]

I fully agree.

 

There was a time when I thought HAL run totally independently of Carnival but it is a little less clear these days.

 

Not to say, we are not still fully enjoying our HAL cruises but there are clearly some things that look very much like Princess and Carnival that did not in the past. There has been some 'blurring' of the brands IMO

 

Inevitably, Seabourn will have to look more like HAL/Princess/Carnival in some perhaps small ways.

If they were doing just fine on their own, they would still be on their own, I imagine.

 

 

It is a mixed bag in my mind. Yes, Holland America is run separately from Carnival Cruise Line but then again the overall corporation obviously sets some standards and uses some common business modeling and analyst across all of its brands. From a large corporation business view that makes sense. Profitability is profitability and while we may not agree or like it cost cutting probably is universal. Does that lead to also implementing common on-board practices? Probably and that also probably leads to some blurring across the lines. Maybe we're on the verge of some major shakeout of the cruise industry as a whole, who knows. That might take years and years and may not happen. Heck, I never thought I'd see car brands like Pontiac and Oldsmobile disappear but they're gone and I would have lost a bet on that as recent as four or five years ago.

[CRUZBUDS]

edit - sorry I didn't see the car reference above

 

Corporations that make the same product under different names sooner or later kill off some of the brands - take the auto industry for example. There is no more Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Pontiac - the list goes on depending how far back you want to go.

 

I hope Carnival continues to keep distinct differences between their brands, if they don't -- what's the point of different lines?

[Medusa]

To put an end to all speculation: it is definitely the Statendam that's up for sale. I was told so by Hotel Manager Stan Kuppens on a recent Eurodam cruise while sitting next to him at the Mariner brunch.

 

All R and S class ships will go over the next yours as they are too expensive to maintain. Fuel costs are almost the same for the smaller ships as they are for the larger ones due to the fact that the machinery is so old, so you do the math.....

[RuthC]

All R and S class ships will go over the next yours as they are too expensive to maintain. Fuel costs are almost the same for the smaller ships as they are for the larger ones due to the fact that the machinery is so old, so you do the math.....

I can only hope that I receive my next medallion status before that happens, as I know it won't happen afterwards. :(

I'm also sort of glad I was able to cruise during the era I did, and that my cruising days are numbered.

[mamaofami]

I'll really be sad to see Maasdam go. I love her size and crew.

[kazu]

To put an end to all speculation: it is definitely the Statendam that's up for sale. I was told so by Hotel Manager Stan Kuppens on a recent Eurodam cruise while sitting next to him at the Mariner brunch.

 

All R and S class ships will go over the next yours as they are too expensive to maintain. Fuel costs are almost the same for the smaller ships as they are for the larger ones due to the fact that the machinery is so old, so you do the math.....

 

Thanks for the clarification Medusa - I'm still trying to figure that one out

 

The fuel costs might be nearly the same, but why doesn't HAL update the machinery? I know it costs money, but I bet if they could lower the fuel costs and have the ships in good shape, they would still attract many of us and be far more profitable.

 

What do I know - other than the fact they have a market for these ships willing to pay more $ to sail on the smaller ships

[Typhoon1]

It would not be surprising to see one of the older ships sold prior to the 2015 launch of the Pinnacle class.

 

They are costly to maintain.

[SeaSheep]

So now the big question is: Who is going to buy the Statendam? :confused:

[peaches from georgia]

It would not be surprising to see one of the older ships sold prior to the 2015 launch of the Pinnacle class.

 

They are costly to maintain.

HAL is probably hoping to sell at least 2 of the 'S' ships by then.

[Typhoon1]

So now the big question is: Who is going to buy the Statendam? :confused:

 

There are plenty of buyers, usually in other countries that pick up those older ships.

[Randyk47]

So now the big question is: Who is going to buy the Statendam? :confused:

 

There are plenty of buyers, usually in other countries that pick up those older ships.

 

Based on the number of "recycled" ships we saw in the Med earlier this year I'd say there are plenty and that's just one market.

[sail7seas]

I'll really be sad to see Maasdam go. I love her size and crew.

 

 

DH and I have spent about 35 or more cruises on Maasdam and will miss her dearly. She holds a very special spot for us. She and her crew.........

 

We have two more criuses booked on her and probably should think about booking more.....very soon. :eek:

 

[Alcarondas]

Until proven otherwise, I'll choose to cling to the (in all probability, false) hope that the Maasdam will be spared the axe, and will be shifted to supplement the Prinsendam as HAL's elegant explorers.

[rkacruiser]

I am not surprised that Seabourn would be placing their 3 smaller ships up for sale. With the arrival of the three new vessels, the smaller, older vessels don't quite fit anymore. Seabourn is probably finding what Cunard found several years ago with Cunard Adventurer, Ambassador, Princess, and Countess. They really were different than the business model Cunard was trying to operate with QE2, Caronia, and then Royal Viking Sun/Seabourn Sun/Prinsendam.

[arzz]

Oh, sigh! This thread is so sad for us. We love the smaller ships. For us even the Westerdam is too large. Next week we have branched out and will try one of Seabourn's "little sisters" ... but, apparently, even those will be gone soon.

 

OK -- nuts and bolts -- what happens to our beloved Grand Cruises? Are we, Grand Cruisers not an important population to the bean counters? You really cannot fill a large ship for a lengthy cruise -- it is even difficult for the Prinsendam and Amsterdam as they usually have some percentage of segmenters -- if you only fill a minority of the ship with Grand Cruisers and over 50% are pass through cruisers -- it will not be the same! Neither will the amenities and extra service as where will the pass through cruisers come from if they have to pay a lot more than on the other ships?

 

Yes, it is all about me when the topic threatens my getaways!

[sail7seas]

Until proven otherwise, I'll choose to cling to the (in all probability, false) hope that the Maasdam will be spared the axe, and will be shifted to supplement the Prinsendam as HAL's elegant explorers.

 

 

JMO, but I respectfully disagree. I sincerely hope you are right

but I'll be very surprised. I think it possible they may hold Maasdam

longest but if they are offered a good price, off she'll go. Sadly....... :(

 

[bishop84]

I gather two of the parties interested are Thompson Cruises and Saga Cruises. Rumours heard include 2 or even 3 S Class (No guesses which S Class they are not interested in!)

 

Same rumours include the sale of the older Seabourn ships to the same people who bought Windstar. Possibly to be replaced with a strageic partnership with a luxury cruise ship lines which has 3 new ships and has just been sold by its previous owners to a private equity firm.

 

Of course all the above is just rumours scavenged from various websites and a few tales from people I know who work in the industry. I can't provide any firm facts to back them up!

[Modern_Viking]

Hmmm. The "for sale" listing for the S-class (seeming) ship seems to have been taken down. Could something have been put under offer already?

 

Also, The Saga Ruby is scheduled to retire in December of 2013, meaning a good time to procure a replacement would be January of 2014, which was right in the middle of the availability period listed for the S-class. Still, an S-class ship would be a large jump in size compared with the outgoing ship (although other lines are doing the same thing).

 

Thomson has chartered other ships from HAL in the past. They might always do it again.

 

As for which HAL ships might do the Grand Voyages, think about Cunard where all three ships (2 Vista sized and the much bigger QM2) all do Grand/World cruises in the January - April time frame. Potentially HAL could try a Vista class ship for these trips. Or, maybe they would keep the Amsterdam and Prinsendam for Grand Voyages along with the Vista, Signature, and Pinnacle class ships for trips 1-2 (and maybe 3) week long cruises. The Amsterdam was the first HAL ship to be fitted with Azipods, perhaps that mechanical difference would give her enough of a fuel burn advantage to stay in the fleet a few years longer than the other S-class and R-class ships.

 

While I hate to see HAL ships disappear, especially the smaller ones, think about the fact that HAL either needs to change their product to attract different types of cruisers or shrink their fleet so they can concentrate on the smaller group of people who like the old-school elegance that HAL previously featured more so than they do today. With a smaller fleet, HAL could raise their prices, concentrate on more cruises of 10-21 days (vs 7), increase staffing, improve on-board experiences, etc. Maybe, just a thought. Maybe wishful thinking....not that I want to pay more for HAL cruises, but it may be the only way to keep the line from becoming just like other lines instead of marching to the beat of their own drum. Even Crystal had to downsize after they expanded from 2 to 3 ships and then realized their customer base was too small for the 3 ships they had to fill.

[sail7seas]

I would like to think your 'wishful thinking' was true but HAL announced a new build with two sisters possible.

 

Doesn't seem as though selling the "S" ships will shrink the fleet.

 

[Randyk47]

Maybe, and hopefully, I'm wrong but selling the smaller ships and going to the larger ones signals to me that HAL is abandoning some of the more exotic and smaller ports. Of course from a business standpoint that might be the logical and even smart thing to do but it makes HAL even less attractive to us. We're destination cruisers and we look for different places to visit so any line going to bigger ships is basically bad news for us as those ships have the tendency to stick to the larger ports which is a "been there, done that" for us. We've just about cruised the Caribbean "to death" so to speak and there really are only a few, maybe a handful, of islands or ports we've not been to and most of those are the very small ports that even the S class ships rarely visit. Guess that kind of means we've "outgrown" what HAL can offer us at least in terms of close by destinations without going to the South Pacific, Asia, or Europe so maybe the unloading of the smaller ships means little to us. The downside is that the smaller ships, usually the upscale lines, cost more so the end result is that our cruising frequency will, actually has, go down. Kind of hard to say what our cruising future will look like. I suppose some day we'll reach the point where the ship is the destination and maybe from that point of view the larger ships will be attractive but as long as we're still active we'll still focus on where we're going before we determine how we're getting there.

[kazu]

Maybe, and hopefully, I'm wrong but selling the smaller ships and going to the larger ones signals to me that HAL is abandoning some of the more exotic and smaller ports. Of course from a business standpoint that might be the logical and even smart thing to do but it makes HAL even less attractive to us. We're destination cruisers and we look for different places to visit so any line going to bigger ships is basically bad news for us as those ships have the tendency to stick to the larger ports which is a "been there, done that" for us. We've just about cruised the Caribbean "to death" so to speak and there really are only a few, maybe a handful, of islands or ports we've not been to and most of those are the very small ports that even the S class ships rarely visit. Guess that kind of means we've "outgrown" what HAL can offer us at least in terms of close by destinations without going to the South Pacific, Asia, or Europe so maybe the unloading of the smaller ships means little to us. The downside is that the smaller ships, usually the upscale lines, cost more so the end result is that our cruising frequency will, actually has, go down. Kind of hard to say what our cruising future will look like. I suppose some day we'll reach the point where the ship is the destination and maybe from that point of view the larger ships will be attractive but as long as we're still active we'll still focus on where we're going before we determine how we're getting there.

 

I hear you all too well Randy. Well we do the Caribbean it is just for warmth, rest and relaxation and to see some nature. Our more expensive, longer cruises have always been to the more exotic ports.:D - Europe, Australia, South America, whatever. One of the things that HAL has exceeded at has been itineraries. One of the joys of the Prinsendam (for example) is the opportunity to 'river cruise' for a day on the way to another port when possible. The big ships can't do that. It will be a shame when that ends as that is one of the joys of HAL to us:D

 

the smaller, more expensive ships of some of the competitive lines did not have itineraries to match when we went looking.

 

I'm holding out hope that several of the small ships and the Elegant Explorer stay in the fleet for a long, long time:D