HAL is starting to lose me

[Hawaiidan]

Really? I haven't read one post on here that says anything like that. I believe most simply want the HAL that used to be. The understated elegance, the superior service, and ships that were in excellent shape.

 

Oh dont get me wrong, I totaly agree that that would be wonderful. Ideal;wonderful, great.

 

However, it is not in the companies best interest to do so... and you can take that to the bank...they are. The new 2800 passenger ships should tell you the direction they are taking.

 

One of the problems I suffer from is age and memory, maybe some of you too. I remember the past for so many things and bemoan the changes from the past. Cruises, Airlines, Hotels, Restauraunts, Cars... the list is never ending.

Holland has changed, is changing and will continue to change in the future but not as we wish. Best to sigh and wave good buy because those days and experiences of the past are now anf forever past.

[startwin]

Oh dont get me wrong, I totaly agree that that would be wonderful. Ideal;wonderful, great.

 

However, it is not in the companies best interest to do so... and you can take that to the bank...they are. The new 2800 passenger ships should tell you the direction they are taking.

 

One of the problems I suffer from is age and memory, maybe some of you too. I remember the past for so many things and bemoan the changes from the past. Cruises, Airlines, Hotels, Restauraunts, Cars... the list is never ending.

Holland has changed, is changing and will continue to change in the future but not as we wish. Best to sigh and wave good buy because those days and experiences of the past are now anf forever past.

 

I agree, what I was referring to in my post was that you said many posters here wanted glitz and glamour and shopping mall-type ships. And I hadn't read that at all and didn't agree with that observation.

[twinkletoes4445]

I agree with that statement. Don't forget better quality food and special items like escargot!! I don't think people want glitz from HAL.

 

I do believe there is NO other mainstream line that does not have the same issues. We didn't sail HAL until 2009, so I don't know how it was. (I take that back--we sailed Noordam in 2000 which was a superior cruise, even though the ship was old). Since cruising from the late 70's, I know all the mainstream lines are lacking---it's not the same. And, it will never be, because people want a bargain. When people want a better product, they go to luxury or the just below luxury lines. The Prinsendam haters will disagree, but those of us who want a better HAL experience sail her.

 

Things change, I do understand, and it does appear Holland is going in a different direction. They can go whatever direction they choose, and charge extra for whatever they want, but I think the basics like functioning A/C and a working toilet are something that anyone would would want on their vacation. And we would have liked that our furniture in our SA (that cost us over 8K) didn't look like something out of a frat house.

 

It's sad that they're letting their ships (at least the Zuiderdam, which we were on), go to pot like this. It's really startling how this ship has gone downhill since 2007. Our 2009 cruise on the Noordam was nice ... so we were even more startled how rundown things were and the staffing issue. Way less people doing way too many things. I suppose if they're selling many of the cabins for a bargain price, there's only so much money to go around, but we're taking our vacation dollars elsewhere (trying Oceania). If their goal was to make us want to bump it up a notch and try Seabourn, they're nuts. Our last cruise left such a negative impression that pigs will fly before we sail another ship under the Carnival umbrella.

 

We had such positive experiences in the past on HAL that I find it hard to even think about moving to another cruise line, but we are going to after this last experience. We had raved and raved about HAL and friends of ours were going to join us on the Zuiderdam. You don't know how thankful I am that they didn't join us. I would have felt terrible had they experienced what we did. They went on NCL and had a blast. We should have went with them!!

 

In the past, we had no complaints. I wonder how many people are going to continue to plunk down thousands and thousands of dollars for the SA's and PS knowing what they'll receive for their money. It's like paying for a room at the Ritz and getting a room at the Holiday Inn. Not that there's anything wrong with the Holiday Inn, but I do expect to pay a lot less at the HI.

 

I think you are right .... people are looking for a good bargain, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they expect those of us that are paying a premium to hang around. I really felt sorry for the staff on the Zuiderdam. I know they were doing the best they could with what they had to work with.

 

Happy Sailing! :)

[dr.dawg]

all of this is MOST disconcerting. i'm booked on the maasdam on may 3 from ftlaud to montreal. not final payment yet; i could get my deposit back, though i'll have to 'eat' the insurance fee. i may cancel next week when my ta is in; have worked with her for over 15 years. so many hal cruises. yet, i can see the end and that seems to be 'now.' how wonderful it used to be, but apparently no more. think i'll cancel, save up a couple of months, then upgrade to a better experience. hal is ditching its loyal folks, to be sure. sad, sad, sad.

[Sophiebaby]

Dr. Dawg, I've sailed on the Maasdam through the years for a total of almost 130 days. My last cruise on this special ship was this past March for 21 days. I would go on your Maasdam cruise with the intention of having a wonderful time. Her staff is wonderful, and although cuts in staffing were obvious to someone like myself who've sailed her before, I cannot say enough good things about her crew. That's why, although there have been changes across the board on all the HAL ships, I am booked on the Maasdam for 49 days in January. I've been on many of the HAL ships over the last 35 years, and things have changed, but I've been well treated. I really must try the Prinsendam, at least once.

[Storylady]

I did not think I would ever say it but am kind of agreeing with you. The latest thing is the charging for water in the MDR and also for the cappuccino coffee in the MDR. Our next cruise in two weeks on the Maasdam will be our eleventh and with a total of 149 days on Hal. We have a Celebrity cruise booked for next June and are in the market for a future cruise. A lot will depend on how we enjoy this upcoming cruise who we will cruise next. We are hoping that the negative things and comments we have been reading about here on CC will not be seen or happen to us. To date we can say we have enjoyed all our cruises with Hal and are very much looking forward to that continuing to happen.

 

We are in Sydney after our cruise on the Volendam. We weren't charged for water, but then you might have requested bottle water. And HAL has charged for bottle water since we have been cruising. Restaurants do the same thing.

 

As for the cappuccino. I had cappuccino in the dining room for 55 days and wasn't charged.

[mariner]

Try Seabourn. You'll pay more upfront, but will find many extras. Dover sole (remember that).

[Hlitner]

Try Seabourn. You'll pay more upfront, but will find many extras. Dover sole (remember that).

 

You do not need to go on Seabourn for good sole. We just had fantastic Dover Sole on the Celebrity Silhouette in Murano. On the other hand, we understand we shall not find that delightful fish on our upcoming HA cruise in either the MDR or even the Pinnacle.

 

Hank

[pms4104]

You do not need to go on Seabourn for good sole. We just had fantastic Dover Sole on the Celebrity Silhouette in Murano. On the other hand, we understand we shall not find that delightful fish on our upcoming HA cruise in either the MDR or even the Pinnacle.

 

Hank

While you may not find Dover Sole in HAL's MDR, you likely will find meatloaf and liver and onions for dinner:eek: Or, perhaps, that was merely a culinary experiment on the Noordam?

[ellieanne]

While you may not find Dover Sole in HAL's MDR, you likely will find meatloaf and liver and onions for dinner:eek: Or, perhaps, that was merely a culinary experiment on the Noordam?

 

What's wrong with meatloaf and/or liver and onions?

[Hawaiidan]

Try Seabourn. You'll pay more upfront, but will find many extras. Dover sole (remember that).

 

 

That was and is my point entirely. ;)

 

Jumping lateraly is an excersize in frustration. Your still dealing on mass market line to mass market line. Some things better some things worse. On Celeb you det great dover sole; but pay for many other things that Holland America provides.

It is not a total win-win change for you. Your swapping one upset to be grested by an other upset.

 

Want better jump to Azamar on the Royal Carib. label or Seabourn on the Carnival label.

 

You in truth have to jump class of ship... not swap lines. Going up in cabin class within the same line is a very poor value for you and what the lines hope you will do before changing. It is very un wise economics

Like if you dont like your motel 6 room that you thnk a suite at motel 6 will be a better experience. Bottom line, your still in Motel 6 !

 

Not happy....change lines, not cabins, classes or whatever.

[mkam2821]

We cruised on the Zuiderdam twice, the last time a little over 8 years ago and she had a sewage smell in one of the public areas even then. And toilets often didn't flush on the first try then either. I thought it was a fluke experience but reading many of the different postst obviously many have suffered having to repeatedly flush til the waste went down. Additionally I remember a cracked decorative medalion in the floor of a public/common area that we noticed on our first trip (and she was a very new ship at that time) and when we returned 2 years later it was still broken! And the engine (propeller or whatever) vibrations made the glasses in the dining room shake and shudder. I don't she was ever well taken care of. Funny thing is, it didn't stop me from booking other HAL cruises.

[pms4104]

What's wrong with meatloaf and/or liver and onions?

There's nothing wrong with these dishes for lunch, perhaps. But putting them on the dinner menu in such an elegant setting clearly shows that HAL indeed is cutting back on the quality of the offerings.

[world~citizen]

That was and is my point entirely. ;)

 

Jumping lateraly is an excersize in frustration. Your still dealing on mass market line to mass market line. Some things better some things worse. On Celeb you det great dover sole; but pay for many other things that Holland America provides.

It is not a total win-win change for you. Your swapping one upset to be grested by an other upset.

 

Want better jump to Azamar on the Royal Carib. label or Seabourn on the Carnival label.

 

You in truth have to jump class of ship... not swap lines. Going up in cabin class within the same line is a very poor value for you and what the lines hope you will do before changing. It is very un wise economics

Like if you dont like your motel 6 room that you thnk a suite at motel 6 will be a better experience. Bottom line, your still in Motel 6 !

 

Not happy....change lines, not cabins, classes or whatever.

 

There is nothing new in this. They designated HAL a premium line with a "commensurate" cruise experience and if you want better, book luxury. Its the same everywhere. Lure pax up with a carrot.

 

However, coaxing loyal pax into more expensive cruises by purposely annoying the bejeebers out of them would be something else. It would be like Ford coaxing people from Fusion to Lincoln by taking the shock absorbers out of the lower priced car.

 

What people post here makes more sense - they jump brands laterally. Also, land vacations may be revisited which is something we have done more of ourselves.

 

In other words, play fast and loose with your customers, and you might alienate them from the industry completely.

 

Where is the wisdom in this?

[vicocala]

I believe the biggest problem is that HAL customers don't feel HAL should be a mass market line and resent that is occurring.

[ellieanne]

There's nothing wrong with these dishes for lunch, perhaps. But putting them on the dinner menu in such an elegant setting clearly shows that HAL indeed is cutting back on the quality of the offerings.

 

I do not agree. Why should liver be acceptable at a fancy meal only as pate? Personally, I think pate is a waste of good liver and would much prefer it to be well prepared as liver & onions.

 

For a long time lobster was considered trash catch, only suitable for the servants meals. Things change. There is no reason not to serve liver, meatloaf or pasties on the good china at fancy meals.

[ansjefitnes]

You do not need to go on Seabourn for good sole. We just had fantastic Dover Sole on the Celebrity Silhouette in Murano. On the other hand, we understand we shall not find that delightful fish on our upcoming HA cruise in either the MDR or even the Pinnacle.

 

Hank

 

Well you might be surprised we had Dover sole on out last cruise on the Rotterdam in the MDR.

[GeriatricNurse]

Well you might be surprised we had Dover sole on out last cruise on the Rotterdam in the MDR.

 

I would hope that it would be included on the menu as well in the Lido where I normally dine! :)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

OK are we saying that Dover Sole is the Pinnacle of Fine Dining :confused: Since when,? personally I dislike it a lot would much prefer a nice cut of Sea Bass. or a nice rare cut of Ahi Tuna. I think it just goes to show not everyones tastes are the same.

[jaguarstyper]

OK are we saying that Dover Sole is the Pinnacle of Fine Dining :confused: Since when,? personally I dislike it a lot would much prefer a nice cut of Sea Bass. or a nice rare cut of Ahi Tuna. I think it just goes to show not everyones tastes are the same.

I agree, Lisa. I've never been too impressed with sole, be it Dover or otherwise. I'm not much of a fan of any of the flat fishes. Too mild and sweet for my taste in fish. I would also take Ahi Tuna, Sea Bass or my favorite fish, wild salmon over Dover sole any day. And, not to mention that most of what is being pawned off in restaurants these days as Dover sole, isn't Dover sole at all. Its Pacific sole, which is thinner, less dense and cheaper.

[Hlitner]

OK are we saying that Dover Sole is the Pinnacle of Fine Dining :confused: Since when,? personally I dislike it a lot would much prefer a nice cut of Sea Bass. or a nice rare cut of Ahi Tuna. I think it just goes to show not everyones tastes are the same.

 

We also enjoy good Sea Bass (especially when its fresh....) but many cruise lines have gotten involved in a program that tries to sustain certain types of fish and seafood and I believe that some of the best sea bass (i.e. Chilean Sea Bass) and many types of tuna are on the list. This means that most cruise lines (including Celebrity and HA) will use substitutes.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

I do not agree. Why should liver be acceptable at a fancy meal only as pate? Personally, I think pate is a waste of good liver and would much prefer it to be well prepared as liver & onions.

 

Why? Because in my understanding a "fancy meal" involves either ingredients that are expensive in and of themselves (e.g., a good cut of meat, an expensive fish), which may be plainly prepared to enjoy the quality....... OR the ingredient, if less prime, should be enhanced and enriched by technique (preparation, saucing, etc.)

 

Liver and onions and meatloaf, to me, do not meet those criteria. I enjoy them and am happy to make them at home or eat them from time to time at a more homey restaurant, but to me they do not equate to a "fancy meal."

 

For a long time lobster was considered trash catch, only suitable for the servants meals. Things change. There is no reason not to serve liver, meatloaf or pasties on the good china at fancy meals.

 

Perhaps lobster was considered a "trash catch" 300 years ago in colonial times, but it has been considered part of haute cuisine for well over a hundred years now. The original Lobster Thermidore recipe was introduced in 1894.

 

Shall we go back to eating moose nose, which was considered a delicacy at the time that lobster was shunned? :eek:

[Mekka]

I'm somewhat mystified by most of the posts to this thread. I've got 320 days of sailing on HAL and there is no question that it has dropped considerably in quality. Many of the posts to this thread seem to be whining about some specific service that seems to be less available or more expensive than previously. I guess we all could find something to complain about, but the fact is that the prices have dropped even more than the service. This is a re-positioning of HAL in the cruise world to a different value proposition. There is nothing inherently wrong with this change, you just have to decide if it works for you or not. We also cruise quite a bit on Silversea and there's no doubt it is way better than HAL, but also more expensive. We look forward to both cruises and have fun either way. At under $100 per night on the Dolphin deck, what do you expect? It's actually a good deal even if you pay for water at dinner or a thermal suite or whatever else turns you on. I don't understand why paying for water should become some sort of major issue for people. Buy it or don't--it's your choice and figure out if it's worth it to you. But please don't lose any sleep over it. You're having an experience most people in the world will never get--- chill out and enjoy it.

[CoronaCRZR]

If there was a like button on this forum, I'd click it here!!:)

 

I'm somewhat mystified by most of the posts to this thread. I've got 320 days of sailing on HAL and there is no question that it has dropped considerably in quality. Many of the posts to this thread seem to be whining about some specific service that seems to be less available or more expensive than previously. I guess we all could find something to complain about, but the fact is that the prices have dropped even more than the service. This is a re-positioning of HAL in the cruise world to a different value proposition. There is nothing inherently wrong with this change, you just have to decide if it works for you or not. We also cruise quite a bit on Silversea and there's no doubt it is way better than HAL, but also more expensive. We look forward to both cruises and have fun either way. At under $100 per night on the Dolphin deck, what do you expect? It's actually a good deal even if you pay for water at dinner or a thermal suite or whatever else turns you on. I don't understand why paying for water should become some sort of major issue for people. Buy it or don't--it's your choice and figure out if it's worth it to you. But please don't lose any sleep over it. You're having an experience most people in the world will never get--- chill out and enjoy it.

[localady]

I'm somewhat mystified by most of the posts to this thread. I've got 320 days of sailing on HAL and there is no question that it has dropped considerably in quality. Many of the posts to this thread seem to be whining about some specific service that seems to be less available or more expensive than previously. I guess we all could find something to complain about, but the fact is that the prices have dropped even more than the service. This is a re-positioning of HAL in the cruise world to a different value proposition. There is nothing inherently wrong with this change, you just have to decide if it works for you or not. We also cruise quite a bit on Silversea and there's no doubt it is way better than HAL, but also more expensive. We look forward to both cruises and have fun either way. At under $100 per night on the Dolphin deck, what do you expect? It's actually a good deal even if you pay for water at dinner or a thermal suite or whatever else turns you on. I don't understand why paying for water should become some sort of major issue for people. Buy it or don't--it's your choice and figure out if it's worth it to you. But please don't lose any sleep over it. You're having an experience most people in the world will never get--- chill out and enjoy it.

 

Welcome to CruiseCritic Mekka and thank you for your words of wisdom.:D

We have recently returned from 37 days on the Nieuw Amsterdam and I really didn't find the horrible things I worried about after reading about them here in CC. Yes, the crew is working harder than ever, but the product is still an amazing value for our money. We were able to see so much of the Med for a fraction of what it would have cost us on land, not to mention the headaches of moving from city to city and hotel to hotel.

Was every meal perfect? Not always, some were not to my liking, but I sure didn't lose weight and all in all we were always treated with the utmost courtesy.

I am so grateful to have been able to see all the fabulous places we visited: Istanbul,Venice, Santorini, Rome, Mykonos, Catania, Dubrovnik, Split, Kotor, Corfu, Naples, Argostoli, Barcelona, Cagliari, Kusadasi, Lisbon, Cadiz, Athens, Funchal etc

There is no other way we could have ever done a land trip for what we paid for this cruise. Our cabin was cleaned twice daily, and our meals prepared when we wanted them, laundry waiting for us pressed on on hangars after a day in port, and cocktails made for us and delivered with a smile. I too refuse to sweat the small stuff and plan to continue enjoying the value of cruising, most likely with HAL.