Its ‘Modern Luxury’ fleet complete, Celebrity focuses on yields

[u2cruiser]

Funny you should say Kimpton. It's exactly what it reminded me of but I didn't say so as no one outside of the US (where they are) would know of the brand.

 

I have stayed mainly in Kimptons on my visits to the US - LA, San Fran, Washington DC, Philly and NYC. Love the laid back but classy decor there..

 

We stayed in the San Francisco Kimpton in Union Square. Great hotel.

Do you think Celebrity should adopt the animal print bathrobes? :D

[Taxguy77]

I don't have an issue with the positioning. Speaking personally, I don't have a dog in this race. However, maligning a style of cruising that was well-loved by many longtime Celebrity cruisers, by referring to it as "pretense", IS insulting to those that enjoyed it. It is disrespectful language and completely unnecessary.

 

I agree and am trying to figure out if that includes me? :confused:

After having sailed both traditional years ago (All men in coat and tie, fixed dining) and "No ties", as well as NCL when they started "Freestyle" and HAL with open seating (Not my request) I find both styles fine, BUT only if carried out well!

[C 2 C]

However, maligning a style of cruising that was well-loved by many longtime Celebrity cruisers, by referring to it as "pretense", IS insulting to those that enjoyed it. It is disrespectful language and completely unnecessary.

 

My dear wife and I were present during two "Building Bridges" Q&A sessions on Reflection from Dec. 1st to the 5th.

 

In the first, a TA asked how she should defend the company's decision to lower a price on a Tuesday special that would upset her client who had it booked for over a year at a much higher price. At the second session a TA was pleading that Celebrity cancels all OBC that some agencies give to their clients in order to establish a level playing field. The first TA works for her client, the second TA will soon be selling products besides cruises.

 

I can understand that Celebrity wants to raise revenue, I can understand that TA's want to make more money. I can't understand a cruise line that thinks it will fill its ships with people who only drive Audis, make over a 100K a year and still have time to travel. There are a lot of us who no longer want to fill our houses with "art" nor our wrists with $4,000+ watches but still enjoy a wonderful cruising experience.

 

We have just enjoyed nearly two months on Reflection. However while on board these last few days I've learned that I don't make enough money to afford their product, I don't live in the right neighbourhood, and that basically, I just don't fit their idea of what cruising is all about. I guess I should feel lucky I'm not a target, but that knife in my back is not what I expected.

 

Now Celebrity has ‘incredible products’ but rates are too low, so the key focus for 2013 is boosting yields by targeting three key affluent market segments—‘globe-trotting culture seekers,’ ‘metropolitan trendsetters’ and ‘golden nuggets’ (cruise aficionados who spend freely on board, purchasing art, wine, etc.).

[u2cruiser]

Xcellent, I don't think for one minute that the impression you are getting from the article is intentional. The target groups IMO are astute and forward thinking as they don't need to target the likes of us here on CC. They have us in the palm of their hands.

 

I find the wording a little unprofessional but wasn't it aimed at the marketers and agents rather than passengers?

 

As cruising grows and grows, each cruiseline needs a vision for the future and a niche to set them apart from the competition. I think the target groups fit well within the Celebrity brand, but it doesn't necessarily mean that is what they'll get. They are hardly going to turn away people like us; their reliable client base, and to be honest, you must find Celebrity right up your street (or neighbourhood :D) to consider spending 2 months onboard?

 

Celebrity, like all businesses, will have to like or lump the clientele that actually books with them, regardless of target groups, or there will be no business. I'm sure they are well aware of that. :)

[emcee207]

Exactly right. My girlfriend and I are both 30yo professionals and the modern luxury hotel decorative style is one of the things we love about Celebrity. It reminds us of our favorite hotel brand, Kimpton.

 

Zeeke42,

 

My wife is in the restaurant business and helped open the restaurant in the Hotel Marlowe in Cambridge when it opened. She was the morning Manager in "Bambara" for about three years. One of the greatest things that ever happened to her is she was voted "Employee of the Year" at Marlowe in 2005! Kimpton is a classy bunch and VERY customer service orientated; known as the "Kimpton Way". We stay at Kimpton Hotels whenever we can.

 

Moderators, this is not a plug, LOL!

Sorry to go off topic!

[junglejane]

I find the wording a little unprofessional but wasn't it aimed at the marketers and agents rather than passengers?

 

As cruising grows and grows, each cruiseline needs a vision for the future and a niche to set them apart from the competition. I think the target groups fit well within the Celebrity brand, but it doesn't necessarily mean that is what they'll get. They are hardly going to turn away people like us; their reliable client base, and to be honest, you must find Celebrity right up your street (or neighbourhood :D) to consider spending 2 months onboard?

 

Celebrity, like all businesses, will have to like or lump the clientele that actually books with them, regardless of target groups, or there will be no business. I'm sure they are well aware of that. :)

 

I agree totally with your analysis. The comments were made in a trade publication, not a marketing campaign. And I can hardly criticize them for trying to increase their yields and carve out a niche to set them apart from the competition. Only time will tell if this strategy will be successful. Right now I don't think that they must be happy when they have to price an AQ cabin on the Silhouette at a lower price than a balcony on the Allure.

[psujmatt]

Right now I don't think that they must be happy when they have to price an AQ cabin on the Silhouette at a lower price than a balcony on the Allure.

 

This is the crux of the issue. We saw the same thing comparing Caribbean itineraries for early 2013 between Princess and Celebrity.

 

Some article I read said that Celebrity's capacity has increased 60% since 2008 with the fleet changes. They need a lot more demand than they used to in order to fill their ships. To achieve this demand, they've had to price their product lower than their competitors. My wife and I got a steal on a balcony on the Silhouette after final payment deadline last year in the Mediterranean. As a budget conscious person, it will be sad to see the prices rise, but I understand they will have to if the company is to succeed. I just hope they don't rise to HIGHER than their competitors prices because I enjoy Celebrity and want to afford as many trips as possible!

[sginva]

My dear wife and I were present during two "Building Bridges" Q&A sessions on Reflection from Dec. 1st to the 5th.

 

In the first, a TA asked how she should defend the company's decision to lower a price on a Tuesday special that would upset her client who had it booked for over a year at a much higher price. At the second session a TA was pleading that Celebrity cancels all OBC that some agencies give to their clients in order to establish a level playing field. The first TA works for her client, the second TA will soon be selling products besides cruises.

 

I can understand that Celebrity wants to raise revenue, I can understand that TA's want to make more money. I can't understand a cruise line that thinks it will fill its ships with people who only drive Audis, make over a 100K a year and still have time to travel. There are a lot of us who no longer want to fill our houses with "art" nor our wrists with $4,000+ watches but still enjoy a wonderful cruising experience.

 

We have just enjoyed nearly two months on Reflection. However while on board these last few days I've learned that I don't make enough money to afford their product, I don't live in the right neighbourhood, and that basically, I just don't fit their idea of what cruising is all about. I guess I should feel lucky I'm not a target, but that knife in my back is not what I expected.[/QUOT

 

" The right thing for the wrong reason....

" Not what you say but how you say it....

 

We have had a wonderful journey with Celebrity through these many years and change is difficult and we agree with Arno's spot on sentiments. Their stated demographics have changed and we care little who they are speaking too.

We have cruises to take, money to spend and more choices to make. We got entirely to comfortable with Celebrity so shame on us.

We were on the Reflection B2B from Venice to Miami and we had a wonderful voyage with these nagging feeling of disappointment and some frustration at the lack of communication about the ships problems. They are redeemed as always by their wonderful crew. If only the folks that almost never touch our lives could learn from them or have a listen now and again.

The knife in the back does hurt but we will pull it out, pick ourselves up and start all over again. We will sail Celebrity again when it works to support " our yield",

Although probably not the Reflection and we will not recommend Celebrity as we have done in the past. After all most of the people we would make a suggest to are just like us and not included in Celebrity's new market strategy.

In the scheme of things not having a preferred cruise line hardly measures up to a big problem.

Thank you and happy holidays.

[richstowe]

To Sginva, Xellent, k9x8 and anyone else who is disappointed with the direction Celebrity is going in -

 

What is the alternative for you? Which cruise line currently meets your needs which you believe X is abandoning.

 

Or is it that you no longer will be so loyal and be willing to book cruise by cruise looking at multiple alternatives.

[madelinerose]

Exactly right. My girlfriend and I are both 30yo professionals and the modern luxury hotel decorative style is one of the things we love about Celebrity. It reminds us of our favorite hotel brand, Kimpton.

 

We love Kimpton! ;)

[k9x8]

To Sginva, Xellent, k9x8 and anyone else who is disappointed with the direction Celebrity is going in -

 

What is the alternative for you? Which cruise line currently meets your needs which you believe X is abandoning.

 

Or is it that you no longer will be so loyal and be willing to book cruise by cruise looking at multiple alternatives.

 

Speaking only for myself, it's not the Celebrity product. In 2011 we decided to try a cruise and picked a 7-night Eastern Med. We loved it so much, we booked the 10 night Eastern Med and thoroughly enjoyed it. However, with our limited time away, we flew in the day of, and we spent only two nights in Rome after the cruise.

 

Looking ahead to next year, we decided we preferred the shorter cruise with more time up front, and a longer stay in Rome, our most favorite city, afterwards. Celebrity has nothing to meet our needs in 2013. As much as we'd like a longer cruise and a week or two on land, it's simply not doable for us.

 

Therefore, we found a 7 night cruise on Royal that gives us the opportunity to round out our "must see" sites in Greece, as well as a pre-cruise stay in Venice. (Then back to Rome - always back to Rome. :))

 

All this to say, the longer itineraries suit many people, but not those of us with time and seasonal constraints. Some lines do, say, a 14 night itinerary, divided into two cruises, giving us a choice.

 

Now it seems Celebrity wants to move up the ladder; we save all year for our one fabulous vacation, and I hope they don't price us out of the market when we're ready to return. I do know I will sorely miss sailaway from the Sunset Bar, but I'll make do with a bottle of wine on my aft balcony on the Splendour.

[Azulann]

k9x8,

According to the article, Celebrity will be offering more 7 day cruises in Europe for cruisers like you with more time for pre or post days in Europe.

I am attracted to these length of cruises too.

 

All the cruise lines will have their 2014 European schedules out in the Spring of 2013.

So you can easily compare the prices between different lines.

 

I love Rome too , but really want to spend time in Istanbul and Turkey and still do another Eastern Med cruise.

[shipshape sam]

To Sginva, Xellent, k9x8 and anyone else who is disappointed with the direction Celebrity is going in -

 

What is the alternative for you? Which cruise line currently meets your needs which you believe X is abandoning.

 

Or is it that you no longer will be so loyal and be willing to book cruise by cruise looking at multiple alternatives.

 

I will give you my answer. I am not personally disappointed per se. We are wanting to sail once on Celebrity in 2013 as we have a long list of land based trips we want to do. Just got back from DisneyWorld with grandkids in November and Biltmore House yesterday.

 

 

What most anyone would feel is that if there is a great/good fit with a company/product/service you tend to want it to stay the way you have enjoyed it. For me, that is true. I enjoy a great cruise, I want to do another. I for sure know you cannot exactly replicate a previous trip. I have done Panama Canal 3 times and each has been different and great.

 

I personally have a distaste for what I call 'nickel and dimeing'. Some will argue that this allows for a lower base price, but I am not sure if that is really true.

 

I have previously stated that I hope Celebrity makes lots of money, so they can provide great service/product AND I still do. I have run businesses for over 40 years and with great profits/margins we were able to do lots of good things for our stockholders/employees/customers/vendors and communities.

 

Having said the above, I look for VALUE and for each of us, it is different. As long as Celebrity provides, in my opinion a better value, I will sail on Celebrity. When I believe another cruise/cruise line has a better value, I will at least consider it. For example, I think for a few more dollars, I would sail on Celebrity due to my Captains Club status, but on recent cruises, we have not used the perks, so they are tending to hold less value for us AND there have been too much *small print or restrictions in our opinion.

 

We have sailed on Princess, Carnival, HAL, Royal Caribbean and Celebrity and would consider Princess and HAL and Royal Caribbean PLUS Celebrity in future. Hate Carnival, but that is just me.:)

 

On every trip, we have booked based on value perceived/received and they were not always the cheapest price, but the best value price.

[travelberlin]

Interesting article. I like Celebrity as it is now although I have to say the production shows I have seen lately on board the Reflection seem to be targetting a complete different client group than the ones who were on the ship. They were not my piece of cake either.

I hope Celebrity stays accesible and does not jump to a price category similar to Azamara.

If shorter itineraries, it will be good to have consecutive cruises visiting other ports. As a matter of fact I would prefer to have less ports and more overnights.

[Benjo8]

I have cruised with Celebrity for 20 years, starting with the Zenith when its relative opulence (and it was a gorgeous ship at that time or any time) was a somewhat ground breaking event in the cruise industry, introduced to the ship and Celebrity by my parents' travel agent.

A few of my observations and what I learned while on my Baltic cruise in August on Connie: With its S class ships and especially the Reflection, Celebrity is attempting to transition to a new, younger market. It has to, it cannot continue to be your father's cruise line (as the old car commercial used to say) for obvious reasons. Some of us long time Celebrity cruisers have adopted [initially] reluctantly to the substantial changes in the newer ships as well as the increasing monetization of them. The food on the Zenith was as good or better than any food I tasted in a specialty restaurant on Connie or Summit (both pre-Solsticizing) or Eclipse. Now, while the MDR is still an overall positive dining experience the comparison to 10 or 15 years ago cannot be made. Right now Celebrity has a ton of new capacity, and in case you haven't noticed the economy and people's disposable income have not been that great for the past 5 years. Celebrity's building plans were made well before the economy tanked and now they must slog through until better times allows them to up their prices and thereby get a better return on the investment. But that time will come. In the meantime I intend to enjoy the favorable pricing on these beautiful new ships while I can, but still whine about every new onboard service or consumable that is an extra charge.

[TLCOhio]

Just look at the new ships and the refurbs. They project an image of moderne, minimalistic...but classy. Basically like many 5 star hotels of the late 20th and early 21st century ( in old terms yuppy). Think a Standard Hotel in NYC or a W Hotel and one of the Ian Schrager operated hotels in London. It's not starchy like a Waldorf Astoria or a London Ritz hotel. Therefore, I would imagine they are looking for the people this appeals to and its basically mid 30's, 40's and 50's usually no kids with disposable incomes. The Steve Jobs of this world for who a dinner suit or tux is not pleasure but a reminder of work. This does not mean they are slobs but it means they relax in the old country club casual style and for them a holiday is not dressing like they may do 5 days a week back home. And this means a shift away from current demographics as they feel (I imagine) they need to start courting a new generation to secure their financial future. It is no different from any business to whom stagnation is death..just look at the ones that have not moved into online retailing.

 

Xellent: I can understand that Celebrity wants to raise revenue' date=' I can understand that TA's want to make more money. I can't understand a cruise line that thinks [b']it will fill its ships with people who only drive Audis, make over a 100K a year and still have time to travel.[/b] There are a lot of us who no longer want to fill our houses with "art" nor our wrists with $4,000+ watches but still enjoy a wonderful cruising experience. We have just enjoyed nearly two months on Reflection. However while on board these last few days I've learned that I don't make enough money to afford their product, I don't live in the right neighbourhood, and that basically, I just don't fit their idea of what cruising is all about. I guess I should feel lucky I'm not a target, but that knife in my back is not what I expected.

 

Benjo8: With its S class ships and especially the Reflection' date=' Celebrity is attempting to [b']transition to a new, younger market.[/b] It has to, it cannot continue to be your father's cruise line (as the old car commercial used to say) for obvious reasons. Some of us long time Celebrity cruisers have adopted [initially] reluctantly to the substantial changes in the newer ships as well as the increasing monetization of them.

 

Very interesting range of comments and opinions in the three items I have highlighted above, plus others on this thread. Having a college degree in Marketing and much background in demographics, etc., I can fully understand how Celebrity is trying to position its very nice ships. We super enjoyed the Solstice last summer in the Med and are looking forward to that ship in 13 months for Australia-NZ.

 

Just as Marriott offers a wide range of choices, style and pricings ranging from the Ritz-Carlton to Renaissance, Residence Inn, Courtyard, Fairfield, etc., etc., different folks have a range of interests, budgets and needs. But, however, will Celebrity have the right mix and match of offerings to align with the budgets of interests of customers in the U.S. and other key world markets??? Celebrity has lots of big ships with thousands of rooms to fill each week, all year long. Not everyone can afford to drive an Audi, makes 100K+ and has that much time flexibility, etc.

 

Just like in retailing, businesses like to attract those important and desired upscale buyers. But many customers in that category have a wide range of options, some time pressures, etc. Those upscale buyers can also be seeking and desiring "values" for their money. As an example, "boutique" hotels can be fun, but they tend to be smaller in size, easier to fill and carefully targeted. I would like to stay in those kind of places, but, will shop to see ALL of my options and how to get the value for my dollar. On most cruises, unlike staying at some hotel choices, we are paying out of our own pockets with personal dollars. It is not something charged to an employer or covered as a business expense or re-embursement.

 

From a business standpoint, I can understand where the new Celebrity President wants to take things and go. Seeing how it actually works in the "real world" is another, more challenging question. Remember when Oldsmobile sought to keep its older customers and attract new, younger buyers? They lost both and are gone from the business world.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 111,719 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[cruisetrail]

With its S class ships and especially the Reflection, Celebrity is attempting to transition to a new, younger market. It has to, it cannot continue to be your father's cruise line

 

The Reflection for younger market??

The Reflection is for my grandpa.

I believe they have serious marketing strategy problems at this moment.

Their other brand (RCI Oasis Class) overshadows the "modern luxury" in every aspect.

So they are desperately looking for the "right" position for their "incredible product".

But I don't think they have resources to change anything significantly. The only way "to shift away from current demographics" is new itineraries and flexible 4-5-7 day cruises.

Celebrity clients will continue to enjoy what they have been enjoying (for the same or less price).

[k9x8]

k9x8,

According to the article, Celebrity will be offering more 7 day cruises in Europe for cruisers like you with more time for pre or post days in Europe.

I am attracted to these length of cruises too.

 

All the cruise lines will have their 2014 European schedules out in the Spring of 2013.

So you can easily compare the prices between different lines.

 

I love Rome too , but really want to spend time in Istanbul and Turkey and still do another Eastern Med cruise.

 

Yes, I know that's planned for 2014, and it will be interesting to see the itineraries. Meanwhile, we're looking forward to our 2013 cruise on a smaller ship.

 

I, too, would like to spend time in Turkey and see more of Greece. Then there's Sicily, Malta, Sardegna, Croatia...... <sigh> So many wonderful places to visit and re-visit, and time is ticking away.

 

That's why I can't get too wrapped up in the marketing and minutia of any cruise line. We are destination oriented; not interested in shows, casinos, officers, or loyalty programs. It might be different had we started cruising earlier in life, or if we could do more than one trip a year. A Caribbean cruise to escape the dark, dismal days of January would be far more ship oriented for us.

[k9x8]

Right now Celebrity has a ton of new capacity, and in case you haven't noticed the economy and people's disposable income have not been that great for the past 5 years. Celebrity's building plans were made well before the economy tanked and now they must slog through until better times allows them to up their prices and thereby get a better return on the investment. But that time will come. In the meantime I intend to enjoy the favorable pricing on these beautiful new ships while I can, but still whine about every new onboard service or consumable that is an extra charge.

 

I am optimistic that better times are near. We own a boarding kennel, and winter revenue has been down the past few years. This year, I am already seeing a significant increase in Jan/Feb reservations, and most of our clients are cruise bound.

[richstowe]

I am optimistic that better times are near. We own a boarding kennel, and winter revenue has been down the past few years. This year, I am already seeing a significant increase in Jan/Feb reservations, and most of our clients are cruise bound.

Boarding kennel bookings ? Wow what a great leading economic indicator!

 

I truly hope you have a great winter season.:)

[k9x8]

Boarding kennel bookings ? Wow what a great leading economic indicator!

 

I truly hope you have a great winter season.:)

 

Thanks.

Of course, winter is never as busy as the rest of the year, so it's a great time to plan, research, and daydream about the next trip.

[The_Big_M]

I've seen the leaps and bounds they're making in yield increases, with price rises in the Australian and Euro markets.

 

I just came off a cruise on Solstice and sad to say it didn't meet the value requirement. While it was priced substantially, on board the ship felt tired in parts with details that were broken, faulty or old and I had a poor night's sleep due to the facilities, which is pretty bad for a Concierge class cabin. Superficially it does have a distinct, high end fitout, but it's the details that disappoint.

 

When customers have a great experience, and the price is reasonable for that, they want to return. Unfortunately when the price is high, yet the experience doesn’t measure up, disappointment strikes. They way fees were added on, some without apparent justification, was also a disappointment.

Interesting article, but I believe they're already exceeding the top of the value pyramid for what they offer on a number of cruises. Of course, the demand is currently there, so that's why the prices are going up.

[UpcountryTravelers]

The Reflection for younger market??

The Reflection is for my grandpa.

.....

 

You must have one heckuvva young grandpa!

[The_Big_M]

Funnily enough, there's an article today in one of our trade magazines with a similar theme to the above. Their local commercial manager says Celebrity should be priced "so much higher." and "next year we have to challenge the industry to get guests to pay more."

 

"Solstice is the most underpriced cruise ship this summer, especially for a vessel of this quality and newness."

 

With a price of $1000/night for our CC cabin, I consider it overpriced compared to alternatives, and certainly far from underpriced. This is particularly so given the disappointing service issues they had, and poor state of fittings inside the cabin! I can only wonder what he is arguing is fair value - $2000 a night?!

[richstowe]

With a price of $1000/night for our CC cabin, I consider it overpriced compared to alternatives, and certainly far from underpriced. This is particularly so given the disappointing service issues they had, and poor state of fittings inside the cabin! I can only wonder what he is arguing is fair value - $2000 a night?!

At a thou a night :eek:, I'm sure they were happy with your booking. Very happy!

Maybe the problem is they aren't getting enough bookings at these rates.

 

I am very happy with deep discounting but it seems to be a holy mantra in the cruise industry to

never sail with empty cabins no matter what price you need to sell them at.

Will Celebrity stop selling cabins at deep discounts and sail with empty cabins ? Let's see if Celebrity is willing to do so.

Perhaps training new cruisers like me to expect huge discounts off brochure rates is not a great strategy.

 

Works for me though.:)