Coaches at Sydney OPT??

[bazzaw]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bound-for-botany-bay-as-the-harbour-overflows-with-cruise-passengers-20121215-2bgc3.html

 

After reading the above link, I realised that I did not know where/how coaches are parked at OPT to take ship's tour's passengers away. I know that at many overseas ports we have visited, there have been up to 50+ huge coaches waiting on the wharf. What happens re this at OPT??

 

Barry

[MMDown Under]

Good question.

 

I've only ever seen a few big buses, at the one time, at OPT. There certainly wouldn't be room for the rows of buses you see at some overseas ports.

[tillydog]

I've never seen masses of coaches/buses at the OPT. Only ever seen 2 or 3 pull up to drop people off. They usually just pull in along side the kurb outside the terminal. Probably see more mini-buses pull up to drop people off.

[6andy6]

I've never seen masses of coaches/buses at the OPT. Only ever seen 2 or 3 pull up to drop people off. They usually just pull in along side the kurb outside the terminal. Probably see more mini-buses pull up to drop people off.

 

Guys..stop and think for a moment and look at your comments and think laterally here.

 

You could make the same comment for a New York city stop. Or a Hong Kong stop.

 

The attraction is the city the ship is parked in the middle of!!! Sydney. Most don't need to go any further.

 

I'm betting more than half get off in a Sydney (or a New York) and do their own thing. They don't need masses of buses to come and pick people up for tours because most walk down the gangway and over to the Rocks, The Opera House, The Bridge or the ferry to the zoo. A Hop on Hop Off bus already running provides tours as well. And as for transport - those that need to get a taxi.

 

The balance may do a tour that takes them on some sights outside the city which would mean you would be lucky to need 10 or 20 at the very most buses.

 

The same would apply to a Hong Kong or a New York or a (to some extent) a Singapore. Now other cities, where the ship pulls in out at some container dock port miles from down town (Vietnam, many European cities etc) you will need a fair few busses even for just getting the passengers out of the port area. Sydney you could tour the city and return to the ship numerous times during the day.

[Sutho]

I think the cruise lines are looking for a second terminal for peak season and not a terminal to replace circular quay's overseas passenger terminal.

 

I agree that Botany Bay is a good idea. If Sydney is crowded with ships and most cruise ships cant fit under the harbour bridge then a terminal in Botany Bay would be better than anchoring in the harbour.

 

Building a terminal at White Bay is yet another stupid waste-of-money decision of the previous state government. It should be called White Elephant. Very soon no cruise ships will dock there at all as it looks like P&O Australia are shifting their fleet out of Sydney to Brisbane and possibly Melbourne.

 

For me you cant get better than docking in the centre of Sydney but iin reality the city does need an extra terminal to cope with the growing demand for cruise ships wanting to dock here.

[The_Big_M]

RCL's been pushing for Botany Bay for some years - their preference is as a permanent primary terminal, although OPT would be retained for where suitable.

 

Carnival having smaller ships prefer the focus to be on Sydney Harbour.

 

As for the original question, coach loading and unloading is at OPT, but the waiting area is further around through the Rocks. This happens many other places as well, e.g. Sydney Airport where you have a massive taxi car park separately, for those waiting to join the queue rather than just having all the taxis sitting in a queue.

 

It's generally only smaller cities, or ports with a very large wharf area (which is often less convenient to the city itself) that you'll have all the coaches sitting in one place. There's no need for it to be done that way.

[6andy6]

I think the cruise lines are looking for a second terminal for peak season and not a terminal to replace circular quay's overseas passenger terminal.

 

I agree that Botany Bay is a good idea. If Sydney is crowded with ships and most cruise ships cant fit under the harbour bridge then a terminal in Botany Bay would be better than anchoring in the harbour.

 

Building a terminal at White Bay is yet another stupid waste-of-money decision of the previous state government. It should be called White Elephant. Very soon no cruise ships will dock there at all as it looks like P&O Australia are shifting their fleet out of Sydney to Brisbane and possibly Melbourne.

 

For me you cant get better than docking in the centre of Sydney but iin reality the city does need an extra terminal to cope with the growing demand for cruise ships wanting to dock here.

 

See I'm of a different opinion. The Navy does not need a facility in the centre of Sydney at Garden Island. At all. What occurs there can be moved to any area.....in fact it should be moved to Newcastle or Wollongong. Benefits would be the navy would get a brand new facility, and an area of high unemployment would also get an economic boost.

 

Then you could get a twin wharf for cruise ships plus plenty of space for a park, and maybe some residential and retail with a bus terminal underneath the cruise complex. You would also be in a better position being near the entrance exit of the airport freeway tunnels and the cross city tunnel.

 

So you could get 3 cruise berths in or near to the CBD.

 

Once again...as happens so often...this country doesn't need the cheapest solution. It needs the smartest and most beneficial.

[MMDown Under]

See I'm of a different opinion. The Navy does not need a facility in the centre of Sydney at Garden Island. At all. What occurs there can be moved to any area.....in fact it should be moved to Newcastle or Wollongong. Benefits would be the navy would get a brand new facility, and an area of high unemployment would also get an economic boost.

 

Then you could get a twin wharf for cruise ships plus plenty of space for a park, and maybe some residential and retail with a bus terminal underneath the cruise complex. You would also be in a better position being near the entrance exit of the airport freeway tunnels and the cross city tunnel.

 

So you could get 3 cruise berths in or near to the CBD.

 

Once again...as happens so often...this country doesn't need the cheapest solution. It needs the smartest and most beneficial.

 

If only it was that simple. Just who is going to pay for all this redevelopment? Federal, State, or cruise industry?

[6andy6]

If only it was that simple. Just who is going to pay for all this redevelopment? Federal, State, or cruise industry?

 

1. The cruise industry brings in how many $$ from tourism, provision of foods and drink, employment & economic activity and the government already skims its tax out of that from payroll tax to gst to income tax. I get tired of this 'double dipping who's going to pay for it mantra' when it's more than paying for itself already with size able profits for all concerned while keeping the infrastructure of a 1960's ocean terminal.

2. Do you consider it economic and 'paying for itself' to have a military installation occupying considerably Harbour front acreage ....what...4 klms from the cbd. Sale of the land would raise hundreds of millions of dollars plus of course, the economic and tax benefit from the construction jobs it would create.

 

Someone here mentioned building a train line to Botany to service a new cruise terminal...how many billion would that cost?

[keagle]

Someone here mentioned building a train line to Botany to service a new cruise terminal...how many billion would that cost?

 

There is a rail line to Botany container terminal already.

[Sutho]

See I'm of a different opinion. The Navy does not need a facility in the centre of Sydney at Garden Island. At all. What occurs there can be moved to any area.....in fact it should be moved to Newcastle or Wollongong. Benefits would be the navy would get a brand new facility, and an area of high unemployment would also get an economic boost.

 

Then you could get a twin wharf for cruise ships plus plenty of space for a park, and maybe some residential and retail with a bus terminal underneath the cruise complex. You would also be in a better position being near the entrance exit of the airport freeway tunnels and the cross city tunnel.

 

So you could get 3 cruise berths in or near to the CBD.

 

Once again...as happens so often...this country doesn't need the cheapest solution. It needs the smartest and most beneficial.

 

In theory the Navy could be moved here to Newcastle. There is an abandoned barracks already here in Stockton and lots of space left to dock their ships here and build the facilities. I would like to see that happen.

 

It would be difficult to move the entire base as MHQ exists close to the dry dock and that is the nerve cntre for the entire Navy with headquaters deep inside and a major control centre that not many people know exits.

 

The only place that cruise ships could dock at Garden Island is where the QM2 docks as most of the wharfs are at obscure angles and unable to handle large ships. I have always thought that the Navy should share its base like the RAAf is forced to do with civilian flights. That way the Navy can benefit from a terminal to use to for its own private use in off season. A terminal could benefit the new LHD's they are getting as well as give them shelter to provision and supply their ships. The problem with the Navy is there is too many high ranking officers that see the military above everyone else and consider it to be national security etc. Too many fuddy duddys if you know what I mean. The military still has too many dinosaurs yet to join the real world and they will not share or budge for anyone or anything.

 

Yes I think the Navy base should be shared. Even their ex HMAS Platypus is a large wharf that may be able to be extended to host visiting ships on the east side of the harbour bridge.

[The_Big_M]

1. The cruise industry brings in how many $$ from tourism, provision of foods and drink, employment & economic activity and the government already skims its tax out of that from payroll tax to gst to income tax. I get tired of this 'double dipping who's going to pay for it mantra' when it's more than paying for itself already with size able profits for all concerned while keeping the infrastructure of a 1960's ocean terminal.

 

Actually, I don't believe they bring in that much spending. Any cruise fares you pay actually go overseas, so there is no GST that you refer to. Because they employ very few staff locally, the payroll tax you refer to negligible - they'd be in the 'small business' category. And that similarly means any government revenue from income tax is also small. There is relatively very little taxation income from the cruise industry to the government. As for double dipping it should be mentioned the big subsidy the NSW government (NSW ports) were already paying to the cruise lines to dock in Sydney for only $3,000 for a stay!

 

As for extra revenue, sure, there's more than if it didn't exist at all, but locals would be buying the food anyway if they weren't on a cruise, so that's not extra. For that matter most of the foreign lines actually import the bulk of possible food and drink from the US e.g. tinned food, preserved food, and all the grog and soft mix, plus all the shop product onboard. This means that there's actually a loss of food and drink revenue when a local takes a cruise. When you buy a cruise on a US based cruise line that operates here, you're sending most of your Australian money overseas.

 

That only leaves the residual of foreign cruisers coming here and then spending a few days before their trip. Sure, that's extra revenue... but how many of them would have come without the cruise? We did get a similar number of foreign tourists to now, as when RCL and their like were not operating here. I would say the difference is again negligible.

 

All up, there's very little economic benefit to Australia from foreign owned cruise lines. P&O does provide relatively more benefit to Australia as more of its operations are based here... but many CC posters are not referring to cruising on P&O lately when they talk about cruising here.

[The_Big_M]

2. Do you consider it economic and 'paying for itself' to have a military installation occupying considerably Harbour front acreage ....what...4 klms from the cbd.

 

Yes, just like any workers it makes it convenient for the workers themselves to get their and service the place.

 

Putting it in some isolated, low rent area means that all the supplies, the heavy engineering in particular and parts, the staff that are needed have much higher transport costs, and/or have to be relocated, which means extra cost for defence and therefore the government and therefore us, taxpayers.

 

Sale of the land would raise hundreds of millions of dollars plus of course, the economic and tax benefit from the construction jobs it would create.

 

And then relocation of equipment, staff and logistics would cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars.

[6andy6]

Yes, just like any workers it makes it convenient for the workers themselves to get their and service the place.

 

Putting it in some isolated, low rent area means that all the supplies, the heavy engineering in particular and parts, the staff that are needed have much higher transport costs, and/or have to be relocated, which means extra cost for defence and therefore the government and therefore us, taxpayers.

 

 

 

And then relocation of equipment, staff and logistics would cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

No different that what happened at Laverton in Victoria when the airbase moved to the NT. No different than the Officer training school at Point Nepean when they all merged with Duntroon into the Defence Academy. No different than the naval shipyards in Williamstown which were privatised.

 

Defence needs change and defence is there to serve the nation. Its not there as a convenience for the employees. As for expense...your honestly sitting there with a straight face telling me the cost of accommodation in Sydney is cheaper than any most anywhere else...specially in an inner suburb? As for contractors and heavy engineering...how is that different than those that serve in WA - also a remote location. Or down in Sale - a couple of hundred klms from Melbourne, Pukapunyal, the Army Engineering Test Ground up near Romsey, or that airbase up in the NT. And maybe thats the issue...we are to concentrated.

 

Its like that old Yes Minister episode when the minister suggested they move government departments to depressed areas 'What, where will they shop. Harrods is hundreds of miles away'. And thats the crux of your argument....they move to where the work is....like any business.

 

Anyway...we are getting way of topic here..although its an interesting debate. Thanks for your contributions anyway...no hard feelings. :)

[keagle]

Garden Island is owned by the Commonwealth government. The N.S.W. government can not sell

[keagle]

It to provide more space for large leisure craft. If it was worth it, one of the federal governments would have already sold it off.

 

(Sorry, on my ipad and pushed the send button by mistake on last post.)

[cassamanda]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bound-for-botany-bay-as-the-harbour-overflows-with-cruise-passengers-20121215-2bgc3.html

 

After reading the above link, I realised that I did not know where/how coaches are parked at OPT to take ship's tour's passengers away. I know that at many overseas ports we have visited, there have been up to 50+ huge coaches waiting on the wharf. What happens re this at OPT??

 

Barry

OPT security limits the amount of vehicles (coaches,trucks,cars,minibuses etc) that are permitted to enter the terminal at any one time. About 8 coaches max can fit. The overflow of coaches wait wherever they can around the Rocks area until called up. Coaches are also staggered according to needs - transfers or tours in accordance with the Debarking times. Most tours are those to the Blue Mountains and a few city & beaches tours.

Occasionally there are special event coaches required such as to the Opera House - yep can't have the dears walking they might get lost:eek:

 

For operations at Sydney Fleet Base, all coaches are required to be parked up on the wharf prior to commencement of tours etc. In which case the most i have seen is about 24.

 

Botany Bay: One of the most unattractive placed to arrive at. The popularity of cruises here is largely due to the attraction that Sydney has to the overseas market.

Hugh