Evolution of HAL in 2013........

[sail7seas]

Your paying $1000 pp more on Holland with a ship with 2 times the passengers My next Lux cruise in a veranda, larger than Hollands veranda , is over $250 a a day cheaper... You have to look at the whole pie... not the slice..

 

 

One other thought I have and wish to add.......

 

Not Everyone likes the small size ships of Seabourn nor the small number of guests they carry.

 

While very desireable for some, not so for all. I don't wish to sail ships under 45,000 - 50,000 ton. Just my personal preference. We have actually taken to the larger HAL ships far more than I expected.

 

[Hawaiidan]

Not everyone flies.

You are making an incorrect assumption........ in some cases.

 

 

I checked out train and bus schedules from the US to Rome. Venice and Athens.. where most med cruises start. Did not have a lot of luck on that.:(

 

Ran into the same problem in going to China too... what with the bering sea land bridge now being out., And I dont know where to start about Australia and New Zealand.:confused:

 

I contacted some "star-trek" fans and asked about "tele-porting" No luck there either

 

I experienced some difficulities when I tried to drive to California to meet a cruise from Kona Hawaii. ( Even put 400 lbs of air in the tires). It did not work out real well:rolleyes:

 

About 75% of all the cruise departures are infact in international places thousands of miles from the US and across 1 or more oceans.

 

If yo do all your cruising out of Seattle, Miami, Ft Lauderdale, LA or Sandiego, cool.... and you live within the local area... yo dont have to fly but then parking, gas, all come int the picture too. No travel , even to the store is "free"

[world~citizen]

I checked out train and bus schedules from the US to Rome. Venice and Athens.. where most med cruises start. Did not have a lot of luck on that.:(

 

Ran into the same problem in going to China too... what with the bering sea land bridge now being out., And I dont know where to start about Australia and New Zealand.:confused:

 

I contacted some "star-trek" fans and asked about "tele-porting" No luck there either

 

I experienced some difficulities when I tried to drive to California to meet a cruise from Kona Hawaii. ( Even put 400 lbs of air in the tires). It did not work out real well:rolleyes:

 

About 75% of all the cruise departures are infact in international places thousands of miles from the US and across 1 or more oceans.

 

If yo do all your cruising out of Seattle, Miami, Ft Lauderdale, LA or Sandiego, cool.... and you live within the local area... yo dont have to fly but then parking, gas, all come int the picture too. No travel , even to the store is "free"

 

We have lived in North America, Europe and Asia. We adopted a philosophy of "walk to the dock" where possible...in other words taxi from our residence. After that train was our preference then air. We really hate air and prefer to sail from our home city which is possible when you live in port cities.

 

So, not everyone flies...

 

Sail's observation is noteworthy. Note her qualification.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[joangg]

We were fortunate to sail Holland America during the glory years. Our best cruise was the

final Round the World cruise of the Rotterdam in 1997. I had always dreamed of going around the world and was thrilled when the particular one arrived in our mail box. The price was doable! The time was right! Family was stable and leavable! We signed up for an inside cabin and wound up with an inside cabin on the best deck! Then we were able to take the Circle the Pacific cruise n 2002! This time we had a balcony!! Really wonderful! I was able to see eastern Russia at Vladisvostock (sp?) Xian and the Terracotta Warriors, Cambodia's Ankgor Wat! Singapore, Hong Kong and it's fantastic harbor, Sydney and it's harbor! And the final stop was Nuku Hiva, so very far away from the US. As we sailed out from their tiny harbor, from the loud speaker Sarah Brightman sang "Time to say Goodbye" as I watched the sun go down from our balcony and headed to dinner in the dining room. So, as I also remember the 34 day Viking cruise with my daughter just 3 years ago, and the cruise where our children and their spouses joined us so many years ago, my heart is sad to think that this fine, classy, comfortable cruise line needs to cut costs and make it a line I could no longer recommend. Sigh. And I now have 4 stars.

[cmdchiefthom]

I truly love HAL since I first set foot aboard the old Noodam eighteen years ago. It's my honeymoon memories aboard the Nieuw Amsterdam in 1996. Its the experience I had then, the elegance, the class, the premium service, the extraordinary meals that keeps me coming back. Since then, IMHO, the evolution I've observed is from a premium cruise line, to an overpriced mass market line, whose ships I continue cruise aboard in the hopes that HAL may yet regress to those quality times I remember.:rolleyes:

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Well gee, here I am thinking I could go "downscale" and find HAL quite acceptable, and I find this! I think I will have to strike HAL off my list entirely.

 

We have been luxury cruisers for 12 years, and are moving down to a premium line, Oceania, later this year. We have high hopes for it, but I was thinking, maybe we could go a bit further down! Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

We like small ships--the Oceania Riviera in November will be, at 1200, the largest ship we've ever sailed on. I had heard in the past that the smaller HAL ships were quite intimate and lovely--sounds like this too is all gone.

 

I agree that HAL is making a big mistake chasing its market downhill. They should give themselves a shake, spruce up a bit, perhaps retire a couple of old ships, then go for the premium market--Oceania is doing quite well, and so is Azamara I believe. They don't have to become all-inclusive, Oceania is not, but they can include a few things like non-alcoholic drinks, and they can beef up service, food, lectures, and so forth, and drag those people back from Regent who are complaining about the astronomical prices!

 

Guess I'm going to have to look elsewhere for value, if I decide I can't afford Oceania or Azamara. Princess?

[sail7seas]

Well gee, here I am thinking I could go "downscale" and find HAL quite acceptable, and I find this! I think I will have to strike HAL off my list entirely.

 

We have been luxury cruisers for 12 years, and are moving down to a premium line, Oceania, later this year. We have high hopes for it, but I was thinking, maybe we could go a bit further down! Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

We like small ships--the Oceania Riviera in November will be, at 1200, the largest ship we've ever sailed on. I had heard in the past that the smaller HAL ships were quite intimate and lovely--sounds like this too is all gone.

 

I agree that HAL is making a big mistake chasing its market downhill. They should give themselves a shake, spruce up a bit, perhaps retire a couple of old ships, then go for the premium market--Oceania is doing quite well, and so is Azamara I believe. They don't have to become all-inclusive, Oceania is not, but they can include a few things like non-alcoholic drinks, and they can beef up service, food, lectures, and so forth, and drag those people back from Regent who are complaining about the astronomical prices!

 

Guess I'm going to have to look elsewhere for value, if I decide I can't afford Oceania or Azamara. Princess?

 

 

Seeing as you say Oceania and Azamara along with Regent have a following and are doing well, perhaps there isn't room for a fleet of 15 HAL ships in that market. :confused: Too many cabins, a poor economy and only a certain percentage of the traveling public cruising.

 

Seabourn is now headquartered in the HAL building at Elliott Avenue in Seattle and they take more of the upscale market.

 

I don't think HAL could last a matter of months trying to create a product such as Oceania.

 

One conflict I see for HAL right now is the contrast between those on the ships paying $399 for a week and those on the same ship paying $3,999 per person for the same week. Couples paying $8 or $9,000 dollars are disatisified with lower quality menus, staff cutting and other economizing which is so evident. Expectations are different for different people.

JMO......

 

[Jade13]

Well gee, here I am thinking I could go "downscale" and find HAL quite acceptable, and I find this! I think I will have to strike HAL off my list entirely.

 

We have been luxury cruisers for 12 years, and are moving down to a premium line, Oceania, later this year. We have high hopes for it, but I was thinking, maybe we could go a bit further down! Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

We like small ships--the Oceania Riviera in November will be, at 1200, the largest ship we've ever sailed on. I had heard in the past that the smaller HAL ships were quite intimate and lovely--sounds like this too is all gone.

 

I agree that HAL is making a big mistake chasing its market downhill. They should give themselves a shake, spruce up a bit, perhaps retire a couple of old ships, then go for the premium market--Oceania is doing quite well, and so is Azamara I believe. They don't have to become all-inclusive, Oceania is not, but they can include a few things like non-alcoholic drinks, and they can beef up service, food, lectures, and so forth, and drag those people back from Regent who are complaining about the astronomical prices!

 

Guess I'm going to have to look elsewhere for value, if I decide I can't afford Oceania or Azamara. Princess?

 

HAL's competition is Celebrity. The hardware is very different but everything else on board is very similar. However, Celebrity seems to have a better marketing department and are taking better care of their ships. They are calling themselves "Modern Luxury". Check the Celebrity board. Right now Celebrity is offering a free unlimited Classic Alcohol package on all cruises through I think next April (123 Go! promo). The only ship not included is Xpedition in Galapagos but they already include all of the drinks. The package includes all the soda and non-premium bottled water, and specialty teas and coffee ($1,056.00 value on a 12 night cruise), and many other drinks. For those who don't want that they can take a smaller OBC or pre-paid gratuites, and all European sailing this year have all three direct from Celebrity, drinks package, pre-paid gratuites and OBC which would be $300.00 on a 12 night plus anything else from their agent. All the cruises I have looked at are cheaper than HAL. Their past passenger program offers a lot. We had free internet and we did not even use all of it on our last cruise.

 

Just for the record, we are Carnival stockholders and do not own RCCL stock. So, it is to our benefit that HAL get its act together.

[Jade13]

Seeing as you say Oceania and Azamara along with Regent have a following and are doing well, perhaps there isn't room for a fleet of 15 HAL ships in that market. :confused: Too many cabins, a poor economy and only a certain percentage of the traveling public cruising.

 

Seabourn is now headquartered in the HAL building at Elliott Avenue in Seattle and they take more of the upscale market.

 

I don't think HAL could last a matter of months trying to create a product such as Oceania.

 

One conflict I see for HAL right now is the contrast between those on the ships paying $399 for a week and those on the same ship paying $3,999 per person for the same week. Couples paying $8 or $9,000 dollars are disatisified with lower quality menus, staff cutting and other economizing which is so evident. Expectations are different for different people.

JMO......

 

 

I think HAL has too many ships based on the fact the service is inconsistant.

 

Those in the $399.00 inside cabins eat the same food in the lido, and see the same shows and have access to the same promenade deck as those in the $3,999.00 Suites for a 7 night cruise.

[dr.dawg]

yes, hal has gone downhill and fast. remember fresh flowers, gone. remember white-glove service to staterooms, gone. remember great service in the mdr, gone. remember fine food, gone. remember showers and toilets that worked, gone. remember nice toiletries in the bathrooms, gone. remember good shows, gone. gone, gone, gone. this upcoming cruise for me on hal will be last, and that does not make me happy.

[seamist]

 

I suspect and come close to predicting, the next evolution for many of the cruise lines, including HAL, will be a la carte dining. Pay as you order. I think it might be coming to a ship near us sooner rather than later.

 

I think they may offer a basic Lido included in the fare but all other food on board will be from menu with prices same as any shoreside restaurant and we will pay for what we order.

 

If you're correct and other than the Lido buffet I'm going to have to pay extra for fine dining, that will be the death knell of cruising vacations for me. There will be no justifiable reason to choose cruising over land based vacations at that point. So if they do this they will 'cut' themselves out of business for most people who will no longer choose to cruise. That would be THE deal breaker.

 

JMO.

[dr.dawg]

thanks seamist, and i could not agree more. if i have to scour around for a place to eat every day and then pay extra, i'll do that on land. any why not? no advantage to cruising. you can get your room refurbished every day at a motel. you know, the maasdam can go to the nackers as far as i am concerned.

[Jade13]

yes, hal has gone downhill and fast. remember fresh flowers, gone. remember white-glove service to staterooms, gone. remember great service in the mdr, gone. remember fine food, gone. remember showers and toilets that worked, gone. remember nice toiletries in the bathrooms, gone. remember good shows, gone. gone, gone, gone. this upcoming cruise for me on hal will be last, and that does not make me happy.

 

On our last cruise, which was 22 nights, they had no ice carvings on display because they did not have a carver onboard.

[sapper1]

If you're correct and other than the Lido buffet I'm going to have to pay extra for fine dining, that will be the death knell of cruising vacations for me. There will be no justifiable reason to choose cruising over land based vacations at that point. So if they do this they will 'cut' themselves out of business for most people who will no longer choose to cruise. That would be THE deal breaker.

 

JMO.

 

A la carte dining would do it for us as well. We would settle for all inclusive resort vacations.

[kazu]

Well gee, here I am thinking I could go "downscale" and find HAL quite acceptable, and I find this! I think I will have to strike HAL off my list entirely.

 

We have been luxury cruisers for 12 years, and are moving down to a premium line, Oceania, later this year. We have high hopes for it, but I was thinking, maybe we could go a bit further down! Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

 

We like small ships--the Oceania Riviera in November will be, at 1200, the largest ship we've ever sailed on. I had heard in the past that the smaller HAL ships were quite intimate and lovely--sounds like this too is all gone.

 

I agree that HAL is making a big mistake chasing its market downhill. They should give themselves a shake, spruce up a bit, perhaps retire a couple of old ships, then go for the premium market--Oceania is doing quite well, and so is Azamara I believe. They don't have to become all-inclusive, Oceania is not, but they can include a few things like non-alcoholic drinks, and they can beef up service, food, lectures, and so forth, and drag those people back from Regent who are complaining about the astronomical prices!

 

Guess I'm going to have to look elsewhere for value, if I decide I can't afford Oceania or Azamara. Princess?

 

 

If you like the small ship experience - there is one ship you may want to check out - the Prinsendam. It's not like any other HAL ship and actually, wasn't built by HAL;) Despite what some posts have said above - there are lots of flowers on this ship (in fact there are flowers on every Lido I have been in on any HAL ship:)). the Prinsendam steps things up a bit from the other ships IMO - at least certainly did last November when we were on.

 

They do 'little' touches that you don't see on the other ships - whether it's a scenic sail away around an island (with a pilot and approval) or an intimate river tour - the ship is definitely different.

 

The only cabins I am aware of not recommended on her are the AB cabins. the staff on this ship is superlative:D We really enjoyed it last year. The ship won our hearts within 20 minutes of boarding and it just got better after that:) There is no ship in the HAL fleet to compare to her.

 

So, if you want to take a 'step down' this would be perfect. Who knows? you might not even think you took a step down:D

[sail7seas]

[

A la carte dining would do it for us as well. We would settle for all inclusive resort vacations.

 

 

IF what they offered for a la carte dining was good (as DH and I define good :D), we might think it not such a bad idea. I have not been as happy with the food on recent cruises as I used to be so if the prices worked out to similar to what we now pay with food included, it is not automatically a deal breaker for me.

 

I know this is a red button topic and many will not entertain the notion at all and I understand that.

[cruz chic]

yes, hal has gone downhill and fast. remember fresh flowers, gone. remember white-glove service to staterooms, gone. remember great service in the mdr, gone. remember fine food, gone. remember showers and toilets that worked, gone. remember nice toiletries in the bathrooms, gone. remember good shows, gone. gone, gone, gone. this upcoming cruise for me on hal will be last, and that does not make me happy.

When did HAL ever have good shows? They did have fresh flowers on my last cruise. I also had a functioning shower and toilet.

[sapper1]

[

 

 

 

IF what they offered for a la carte dining was good (as DH and I define good :D), we might think it not such a bad idea. I have not been as happy with the food on recent cruises as I used to be so if the prices worked out to similar to what we now pay with food included, it is not automatically a deal breaker for me.

 

I know this is a red button topic and many will not entertain the notion at all and I understand that.

 

If I understand you, you are saying that fares would be lowered and then passengers would pay a la carte. That would be different and I could live with that. I was thinking people meant prices would stay the same and dining would be an add-on. Not so attractive.

[cruz chic]

HAL's competition is Celebrity. The hardware is very different but everything else on board is very similar. However, Celebrity seems to have a better marketing department and are taking better care of their ships. They are calling themselves "Modern Luxury". Check the Celebrity board. Right now Celebrity is offering a free unlimited Classic Alcohol package on all cruises through I think next April (123 Go! promo). The only ship not included is Xpedition in Galapagos but they already include all of the drinks. The package includes all the soda and non-premium bottled water, and specialty teas and coffee ($1,056.00 value on a 12 night cruise), and many other drinks. For those who don't want that they can take a smaller OBC or pre-paid gratuites, and all European sailing this year have all three direct from Celebrity, drinks package, pre-paid gratuites and OBC which would be $300.00 on a 12 night plus anything else from their agent. All the cruises I have looked at are cheaper than HAL. Their past passenger program offers a lot. We had free internet and we did not even use all of it on our last cruise.

 

Just for the record, we are Carnival stockholders and do not own RCCL stock. So, it is to our benefit that HAL get its act together.

I've cruised with Celebrity twice. That was 2X too many. If they offer free alcohol that will be even less reason for me to cruise with them again. They'll be so many drunks on there it will seem like Carnival (yes I have cruised with them).

[sail7seas]

If I understand you, you are saying that fares would be lowered and then passengers would pay a la carte. That would be different and I could live with that. I was thinking people meant prices would stay the same and dining would be an add-on. Not so attractive.

 

 

I certainly can't know as I've not been invited to any HAL organizational meetings (drat..... that could be really fun !) but my guess would be initially the sales pitch would be use the discounted fare difference to choose what you want from all our food venues.

 

In short order, the prices for the cabin (not including anything more than basic Lido for food) would inch up as much as the market would bear.

 

All of these decisions will be dependent upon status of the world/U.S./Canadian economies. World economies are going to rule everything for as far out as we can see.

 

[Jade13]

I've cruised with Celebrity twice. That was 2X too many. If they offer free alcohol that will be even less reason for me to cruise with them again. They'll be so many drunks on there it will seem like Carnival (yes I have cruised with them).

 

The package includes all soda's, bottled water, premium teas and coffees, not just alcohol :rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

The package includes all soda's, bottled water, premium teas and coffees, not just alcohol :rolleyes:

 

 

Hi Jade,

 

For me, that is no attraction.

I don't drink a six pack of soda in a year I don't think. I don't lug around bottles of water and we get all the wonderful coffee we want on HAL ships from Neptune or DH has espresso in MDR or Pinnacle if he feels like it.

 

I don't like the idea of so much liquor being so available. Not everyone drinks responsibly and I don't want to dodge (potentially) a bunch of drunks.

 

Not all things are a 'draw' for all of us.

Then again, in all truth, nothing they do is likely to ever bring us away

from HAL and back to Celebrity....... ever. :shrug:

 

[cruz chic]

The package includes all soda's, bottled water, premium teas and coffees, not just alcohol :rolleyes:

That doesn't sweeten the pot for me either. No need for the eye rolling. Not everyone is motivated by freebies, especially when it comes to Celebrity.

[cruisemom42]

That doesn't sweeten the pot for me either. No need for the eye rolling. Not everyone is motivated by freebies, especially when it comes to Celebrity.

 

 

If one can get beyond a literal interpretation, I believe the bigger thought behind the OP's statement is that Celebrity, unlike HAL, has done a great job of branding the line in the last few years, whether or not you specifically like what's on offer. They offer innovative ideas on their newer ships and innovative promotions. In other words, they are a success story in terms of developing an image and attracting cruisers to the line.

 

I think HAL could capitalize on some of its strengths (or at least what have been strengths) and brand itself with a creative new campaign IF they put the money into it. But they also would need to follow through. If they want to maintain something like the "Signature of Excellence" then they need to be excellent -- not just in terms of service but meeting a minimum standard of maintenance on board.

 

And if cost-cutting must continue, they need to pick at least ONE area to emphasize to potential cruisers where there aren't noticeable cutbacks -- be that the "best" itineraries or something else. (I don't think either food or entertainment would be viable options....)

[George C]

I've cruised with Celebrity twice. That was 2X too many. If they offer free alcohol that will be even less reason for me to cruise with them again. They'll be so many drunks on there it will seem like Carnival (yes I have cruised with them).

 

I doubt that you will see many drunks, did a Sandals 2 months ago that was totaly unlimited top shelf liquour and might have seen a couple of people that had too much in the 8 days I was there. Hal allows all the wine you can carry on and you almost never see people drunk. My only problem with drink packages is they never have really good wine, which I can bring on Hal, Hal will get 200 or more in corkage fees from me on my next 11 day cruise.