Denied Boarding

[DMLyons]

Maybe if his birth certificate was issued by a military hospital (the regs only state that the birth certificate be issued by a government entity which a military hospital would be), then an unknowlegable agent would think it a "hospital" birth certificate and reject it and the more knowlegable State Department employee would accept it.

 

 

Which is incorrect. Two of my three children were born in military hospitals, and one of my friend's children was born in a military hospital abroad. If the child is born in a stateside military hospital (as mine were), they are issued a birth record which is not considered valid ID, and they tell you that when you get it. The state the hospital is in then issues the birth certificate, which is valid. You fill out the paperwork in the hospital to be sent to the state. If the child is born in a military hospital abroad, the same is true. The child is given a local birth certificate and must fill out forms to be issued a US birth certificate for a child born abroad. I've seen the forms...so not fun.

 

BDL

[sparks1093]

Which is incorrect. Two of my three children were born in military hospitals, and one of my friend's children was born in a military hospital abroad. If the child is born in a stateside military hospital (as mine were), they are issued a birth record which is not considered valid ID, and they tell you that when you get it. The state the hospital is in then issues the birth certificate, which is valid. You fill out the paperwork in the hospital to be sent to the state. If the child is born in a military hospital abroad, the same is true. The child is given a local birth certificate and must fill out forms to be issued a US birth certificate for a child born abroad. I've seen the forms...so not fun.

 

BDL

 

I wasn't presenting the info as fact, I was guessing. Thanks for giving us the correct skinny.

[DMLyons]

Call them, find out there is a problem with his birth certificate and the parents on it. I spent 5 MONTHS arguing with them. Sending in my information, 4 copies of his birth certificate, marriage certificates, change of name for SS# for when I was married, everything that could possibly be though of! The whole time "We still don't have enough proof you are his mother" because the 1st copy of his birth certificate had Michelle Anonymous as my name since I was not married at the time. Finally ended up having to call a State Representative for help, we had no other place to turn! His secretary had the passport in our hands less than a week later! Thankfully we started the passport process almost 7 months before the cruise!

 

Oh, that is HORRID! I'm so glad it worked out. We started working on our kids' passports a full year before we knew we needed them. We've heard horror stories like this one before. Luckily, the three kids went smoothly. My husband's...not as smoothly. Ironically, my husband (when he got his passport) was less than four years out of the military, so it wasn't like they didn't know what he'd been doing for the prior two decades of his life. And it wasn't as if he had never had a background check or security clearance in his life either. I'm not sure why it took them so long to process him.

 

BDL

[lambchoplady]

Oh, that is HORRID! I'm so glad it worked out. We started working on our kids' passports a full year before we knew we needed them. We've heard horror stories like this one before. Luckily, the three kids went smoothly. My husband's...not as smoothly. Ironically, my husband (when he got his passport) was less than four years out of the military, so it wasn't like they didn't know what he'd been doing for the prior two decades of his life. And it wasn't as if he had never had a background check or security clearance in his life either. I'm not sure why it took them so long to process him.

 

BDL

If your husband was deployed outside of the US, I can understand it. When my brother was deployed abroad, due to the nature of his assignment, he had a ban on travel to certain countries for several years.

[DMLyons]

If your husband was deployed outside of the US, I can understand it. When my brother was deployed abroad, due to the nature of his assignment, he had a ban on travel to certain countries for several years.

 

That's standard practice, but he wasn't going anywhere restricted. He was going to the UK, of all places. Grin...

 

BDL

[BaseballMomof4]

Having worked for a passport issuing agency I can tell you that hospital birth certificates are considered more of "souvenir" than an official document.

 

The official documents are issued by your county of residence or the state agency. You can get one by simply going to the proper agency in your area and most hand it to you for a fee.

 

They can also be ordered online.

[Corby114]

In 2004 my wife,my son, and I applied for passports six months prior to a scheduled trip to see relatives in Germany. I was born in 1957 in Jersey City, New Jersey in a hospital that closed many years prior to 2004. We submited the three applications along with are three birth certificates at the same time and my application was denied because there was an investigation by United States Federal Authorities in reference to various acts of fraud commited by employees of the Hudson County Board of Vital Statistics. Because of that fact I drove to Trenton, New Jersey to get a copy of the New Jersey State issued live birth certificate. The certificate was on mircofilm so I waited approximately two weeks before it was sent to me in the mail. I then resubmitted the application and received the passport a few weeks later. Other residents who were born after 1990 received a copy of their birth certificate on the same day that they applied for it. It's so much easier to spend the hundred dollars plus to have piece of mind for a document that doesn't expire for ten years. My family are due for their renewals in 2014. As stated in earlier posts, people spend thousands of dollars on wonderful cruise vacations and worry about an additional one hundred dollars plus on a piece of valuable personal identification that will make there travels so much easier.

[Laszlo]

Wow

I have 3 birth certificates, one from Germany where I was born. One from the US Army because I was born on base, my father was in special forces and another from the state of PA?USA when my parents moved back here in the early 60's. I would never try and leave the country without my passport.

[sparks1093]

Wow

I have 3 birth certificates, one from Germany where I was born. One from the US Army because I was born on base, my father was in special forces and another from the state of PA?USA when my parents moved back here in the early 60's. I would never try and leave the country without my passport.

 

With that kind of a paper trail I don't blame you.:eek:

[jaja]

In 2004 my wife,my son, and I applied for passports six months prior to a scheduled trip to see relatives in Germany. I was born in 1957 in Jersey City, New Jersey in a hospital that closed many years prior to 2004. We submited the three applications along with are three birth certificates at the same time and my application was denied because there was an investigation by United States Federal Authorities in reference to various acts of fraud commited by employees of the Hudson County Board of Vital Statistics. Because of that fact I drove to Trenton, New Jersey to get a copy of the New Jersey State issued live birth certificate. The certificate was on mircofilm so I waited approximately two weeks before it was sent to me in the mail. I then resubmitted the application and received the passport a few weeks later. Other residents who were born after 1990 received a copy of their birth certificate on the same day that they applied for it. It's so much easier to spend the hundred dollars plus to have piece of mind for a document that doesn't expire for ten years. My family are due for their renewals in 2014. As stated in earlier posts, people spend thousands of dollars on wonderful cruise vacations and worry about an additional one hundred dollars plus on a piece of valuable personal identification that will make there travels so much easier.

 

It is so funny you should post...I also was born in Jersey City...as was my daughter....and we both had to get new birth certificates..due to the fraud investigation..! Luckily...we were not under any time constraints..and I believe we did it by mail..and it took awhile...

 

I am sure Jersey City is not the only place that has had problems (even though..they were known for "corruption":o)..so it is important that people have passports...they are the best form of ID...!

[billie5]

I don't think NCL makes the rules about the birth certificates. I think that these are government rules that have to be followed. It wasn't that long ago that the US was going to make everyone use a passport even on closed loop sailings. There was a huge rush to get passports and then, voila, they changed their mind and now they continue to allow certified birth certificates along with photo ID to be used in closed loops sailing out of the US. One way sailings do require a passport!

 

sorry, here is where the story does not jell; I do not believe for one minute he was told by the passport office that NCL should have allowed him to board. I think someone isn't telling you the entire story...

 

Okay, guys. I think there is a problem here, but also some misunderstanding.

 

First, we all have to admit that even government employees can say stupid and really incorrect things. However, I do agree that in this case it is possible, but very unlikely, that the government employee said what has been stated. It is much more likely that the OP misunderstood.

 

What the govt. person could have stated is that the decision on what documents any carrier requires is up to the carrier. It has always been a fundamental right of any American to leave his/her country (assuming of course you are not under indictment:)). This is not as trivial as it sounds. A number of countries (China for example) require permission for a citizen to leave. Not the USA. However, the carrier is responsible for you if a receiving country denies you entry, so no carrier is going to take you if they are not certain you are properly documented.

 

Cruise lines have an additional burden. When they dock, they may be asked to certify that everyone aboard is properly documented. This is an issue which comes up, say, when a cruise is traveling between Schengen countries and a passenger loses his/her passport at the first port. Even though they should not need documentation to enter the second port (and could easily travel by land to the second country without documentation being checked), the cruise line may refuse to let you board, as has been reported on CC a number of times, since they could not certify that everyone was properly documented. (The solution of course is not to tell the cruise line you have lost your passport, stay on board whenever a passport is required to disembark, and then at the very last port scratch your head and say "Gosh, I don't know what happened to my passport!:))

 

Bottom line. Yes, in theory anyone could leave the US without documentation, but no carrier is going to take you unless they believe you have proper documentation to get off again. So one could say, I suppose, that in the last analysis it is up to the carrier as to what they require ............ although from a common sense point of view putting it that way is a bit of a stretch.

[DMLyons]

With that kind of a paper trail I don't blame you.:eek:

 

That's precisely the kind of thing I was talking about with overseas military births. It's frightful amounts of paperwork involved.

 

BDL

[blindrid]

Wow, it amazes me that people capable of getting an expedited passport while out of town, arranging a flight and flying to meet a ship are not capable of checking the requirements before the cruise.

 

I would speculate that the rest of the story was that someone overnighted their pp's and then went on.

[dutchess43]

I agree with Corby114 thousands of dollars are spent on these cruises & passports seem to break the budget. When you realize that the cost is 10.00 per year for 10 years it is not a bad deal. I wish the US would get it together & make all of us regardless of where or what we travel on have passports.

[SyberCat]

I would NEVER ever even consider taking a cruise without my passport. Never. EVER! :eek:

 

My hubby and I are going on our first cruise in November and we're going to have our passports ready. They're both expired but we're renewing them for this trip, even though we don't have to and could use our birth certificates instead. We don't want to take any chances!!

[Warm Breezes]

Why on Earth would you travel without a passport?!

Dont people realise that they are travelling abroad?! HELLO! The Caribbean is not USA:rolleyes::eek:

Just plain stupid to travel without a passport and the cruiselines should forbid it as should the various Caribbean Islands.

 

 

Why should the cruiselines forbid it when our government allows it :rolleyes:?? I do it because the risk is extremely small and the cost is high for the few hours we are in port....it is my choice afterall on a closed loop cruise.

[Warm Breezes]

I think the cruise lines would save everyone a lot of grief if they just implemented their own policies requiring passports on ALL cruises, closed loop or not. It makes it all so much simpler.

 

My guess is that the vast majority of people don't get passports because they don't want to pay for them. Seriously? You spend hundreds if not thousands on a vacation and you can't buy a $100 passport which doesn't expire for many years? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

$100x4 for our family added to the cost of the next cruise because any future travel needing a passport is not guaranteed. Seriously...I am not willing to spend any of my money on passports for a closed loop cruise where they are not required, where the risk is extremely small, and where future travel requiring them is not being planned for the next few years (so why waste the years). Since we have been cruising the cost savings in not getting passports is over $1000. We have never needed them for our closed loop cruises and we never had any issues by not having them. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Warm Breezes]

if you are planning a cruise that goes out of the USA, a passport is not required however it is a suggested form of ID. I think in the near future we will need the to go from state to state, so just get one and you have no worries.

I'm willing to take the bet against you on that one...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[SyberCat]

... I for one am glad I have a passport & never travel without it even it I am flying domestically therefore reducing problems. ...

 

I do this too. It just seems so much easier and safer; it's the one document that's the same everywhere, every state, every country, and is universally recognized and accepted.

[Charles4515]

I am happy that it all worked out for the family & they could finally go on a much deserved vacation. I for one am glad I have a passport & never travel without it even it I am flying domestically therefore reducing problems. I took my GS on a closed loop cruise last Feb & DD & SIL made sure that the 4 yr old got a passport it's better to be safe then sorry. I also feel whether it's a close loop cruise or not stepping outside the US you should have a passport it would prevent a lot of hassles.

 

I never take my passport when traveling domestically flying or otherwise and never will. It does not prevent any hassles traveling in the US.

 

Traveling outside the US it may prevent hassles. The hassles are primarily from US immigration. I have never been asked for a passport in the Caribbean getting on or off a cruise ship by any island government. Some want photo ID most just want to see your ship card. I always take my passport to prevent hassles on returning to the good old USA and in case an emergency arises and I would have to fly home from to the US as otherwise they won't let you on the plane.

[dijid]

I never take my passport when traveling domestically flying or otherwise and never will. It does not prevent any hassles traveling in the US.

QUOTE]

 

I do take passports when traveling domestically. It is the only form of photo ID I have for my children. Having adopted transracially, it is the closest form of proof I have that the child who doesn't look a thing like me is mine, as we have the same last name. It is also proof of a child's age, if questioned. Peace of mind, albeit expensive peace of mind because children's passports are only valid 5 years. (And we had passports for my children before we moved overseas, lest anyone think we have them only because we live overseas.)

[njhorseman]

(deleted by njhorseman)

[mabones]

Why I am responding to your snarky response I am not exactly sure.

 

Everything was done through the Make-A-Wish Foundation because their youngest daughter has a brain tumor and the travel agency took care of everything for them.

 

Maybe if you mentioned that piece of crucial information with your initial, you wouldn't' t have received that "snarky" remark. I hope all worked out & the family was able to make some happy memories.

[punkincc]

$100x4 for our family added to the cost of the next cruise because any future travel needing a passport is not guaranteed. Seriously...I am not willing to spend any of my money on passports for a closed loop cruise where they are not required, where the risk is extremely small, and where future travel requiring them is not being planned for the next few years (so why waste the years). Since we have been cruising the cost savings in not getting passports is over $1000. We have never needed them for our closed loop cruises and we never had any issues by not having them. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

The same logic could be applied to the travel insurance question. Some people never spend the money and have been lucky. You never need insurance until you do. And when you do, all that money saved can be spent 10x over.

 

People miss cruise ship departures in foreign countries frequently. Or, they or a member of their party gets sick, injured, hospitalized in a foreign country and must fly home. If I am on a cruise without a passport and one of my family gets sick back home, I don't want to leisurely cruise back to be with them. I want to fly now, and without a passport that is not going to happen.

 

It is an expense, yes. But if I am going to travel outside the country, it is just a risk and hassle I am not willing to take.

[Charles4515]

The same logic could be applied to the travel insurance question. Some people never spend the money and have been lucky. You never need insurance until you do. And when you do, all that money saved can be spent 10x over.

 

People miss cruise ship departures in foreign countries frequently. Or, they or a member of their party gets sick, injured, hospitalized in a foreign country and must fly home. If I am on a cruise without a passport and one of my family gets sick back home, I don't want to leisurely cruise back to be with them. I want to fly now, and without a passport that is not going to happen.

 

It is an expense, yes. But if I am going to travel outside the country, it is just a risk and hassle I am not willing to take.

 

Since Warm Breezes is a family of four the risk is increased. Lot of people think it never happens to them. The day I was supposed to be flying to one cruise I was having emergency surgery. Had insurance and that covered the cruise and air costs. If the medical issue was one day later I would have had to fly back from the cruise. Had no reason to expect the medical issue. It was not a pre-existing condition. Came out of the blue. Not having a passport for any travel out of the USA to save money is foolish.