Fire on Carnival Triumph. No engines, running on emergency generators.

[cheewiee]

Given the number of commercial airplanes in the skies every day and the number of cruise ships on the water every day, and the number of incidents that each have had in the past 20 years, I'd argue that air travel is proportionally safer than cruising. Stronger government oversight of maintenance in aircraft is very likely a factor.

 

Well that's what happens when you have aggressive regulation that has all but ended the US Flagged cruise industry... Ship oversight now belongs to the flagged coutnries.. Bahamas.. Liberia..

[kylenyc]

After watching this ordeal, I think if I was designing a cruise ship, the one thing I would have is a redundant system to make damn sure the sewage system works. Ive been on ships all my life and its entirely possible, by making the system able to be isolated from the original operating system, but using the same piping. The problem is the commodes are vacuum flush and the holding tanks. Both need a power source to operate them. Give them there own axillary power source in the front of the ship or away from the engine rooms, to be used in case of emergency or if needed.

Money, a a bit of space and designer attitude are the only things that would be stopping this from happening.

 

In both CCL instances, if you take the sewage out of this equation it makes the rest seem rather tame.

 

Just thinking outta the box like I've been known to do once in a while.

billd

Excellent. I was just thinking wouldn't surprise me a bit when the story first broke as soon as some CNN exec heard "pooping in a bucket?" said we just have to carry this story.

[scottamemnon]

After watching this ordeal, I think if I was designing a cruise ship, the one thing I would have is a redundant system to make damn sure the sewage system works. Ive been on ships all my life and its entirely possible, by making the system able to be isolated from the original operating system, but using the same piping. The problem is the commodes are vacuum flush and the holding tanks. Both need a power source to operate them. Give them there own axillary power source in the front of the ship or away from the engine rooms, to be used in case of emergency or if needed.

Money, a a bit of space and designer attitude are the only things that would be stopping this from happening.

 

In both CCL instances, if you take the sewage out of this equation it makes the rest seem rather tame.

 

Just thinking outta the box like I've been known to do once in a while.

billd

 

I think the biggest issue is most modern cruise ships do not have a large holding tank and instead rely on a centrifugal seperation system, which they then incinerate. Without enough power for the centrifuges, and with a potentially disabled water suppression system, they probably would just back up quickly... which is precisely what we are seeing here.

 

In the old days they would have had the ability to just purge the tanks into the ocean. Modern "green" fleets prevent this.

[dwjoe]

I have talked to my wife numerous times today and this is what she said!

 

1. They did have to wait in line for hours for food.

 

2. They have been living on bread and fruit

 

3. They were sleeping on the deck under sheets made into tents. She called it "Shanty Town"

 

4. The crew has been working non stop to make them comfortable!

 

5. They had use bags for restrooms, but they also found random toilets that were working because there was a long line! They had to wait for that restroom because after every person the crew had to poor water to get it to flush.

 

6. There is sewage on the floors. The carpets were squishy.

 

7. She said the worst part of it was worrying about the babies. Last night Carnival made an announcement looking for anyone with formula!

 

8. Her biggest complaint was that Carnival was not updating them very much. I knew much more then her!

Thanks for the update Clinty, and for sticking with this thread after the undeserved flaming you were given earlier this week.

 

Lesson for Carnival: your communication sucks if a family member can get better info from the media and Cruise Critic than an actual pax onboard.

[grozas]

I had heard that they were going to give every passenger $500 cash.

 

I would hate to see the release contract you have to sign to get that cash.

[MrPete]

the ships. Doable in a matter of years.

 

And the panels would go .....?

[truecruiser]

At the Press Conference, the VP denied a death had occurred onboard.

 

The passenger interviewed after made no mention of it either.

[$hip$hape]

But I think there's a larger point. As someone else mentioned before me, there are people who might have considered cruising but now won't, simply due to this incident. Sure, they may reconsider over time, but I suspect many won't. There are too many vacation options out there.

 

My mother-in-law is a case in point, and she's just one person I happen to know. I'm certainly not a cruise industry expert, just a customer. But I suspect the industry has a lot of PR work to do.

CNN is doing it for them.

[Aquahound]

(Solar Power)the ships. Doable in a matter of years.

 

This came up a couple days ago on this thread. Both RCI and Celebrity have solar power on some of their ships. They provide enough power to light some of the larger public areas, such as the Royal Promenade on Oasis Class. Carnival was asked about the possibility of installing solar panals on their ships. They said they would not because the return on investment was not high enough.

 

Here's a link to an article about it:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/01/18/story10.html?page=all

[Rasvar]

If I was on that cruise, that last thing I would want to do once I got off the ship is talk to the media. I'd be willing to do some cell phone talks now while waiting but as soon as I am on land, all I will care about is getting food and to to a shower and then home. I would be so exhausted that even just sitting on a temperature controlled bus would be pleasant. Heck, even the on-board bus toilet would seem like heaven!

[ducklite]

Well that's what happens when you have aggressive regulation that has all but ended the US Flagged cruise industry... Ship oversight now belongs to the flagged coutnries.. Bahamas.. Liberia..

 

1. The only reason they sail under foreign flags is to avoid US taxes and minimum wage laws.

 

2. Any ship that ports in the US is still subject to USCG and CDC rules involving safety, environmental policies, and sanitation.

[mikeymars]

CNN now reporting ship is going so slow it will not port until sometime tomorrow.

[gtalum]

After watching this ordeal, I think if I was designing a cruise ship, the one thing I would have is a redundant system to make damn sure the sewage system works. Ive been on ships all my life and its entirely possible, by making the system able to be isolated from the original operating system, but using the same piping. The problem is the commodes are vacuum flush and the holding tanks. Both need a power source to operate them. Give them there own axillary power source in the front of the ship or away from the engine rooms, to be used in case of emergency or if needed.

Money, a a bit of space and designer attitude are the only things that would be stopping this from happening.

 

In both CCL instances, if you take the sewage out of this equation it makes the rest seem rather tame.

 

Just thinking outta the box like I've been known to do once in a while.

billd

 

All ships built since 2010 are required to have entirely redundant power systems, preventing a single fire like this from knocking everything out. Older ships are exempt.

[TomE1963]

I would be interested to hear all of the arm chair quarterbacks hear tell me how Carnival could have handled this situation much differently.

I have heard some say that passengers should have been transferred to another ship. Obviously this statement was made by someone who has no idea the dangers and difficulties in doing something like this between a large ship with no propulsion or stabilazation. Not to mention what would have to be done with people's luggage and the logisitcs of getting that stuff back to them in an effecient and timely manner.

I have heard complaints about taking the ship to Mobile and whynot somewhere else. Well, those decisions were likely made by the people running the salvage boats based upon the prevailing winds and currents and the diffculty in taking a powerless ship of this size thru a narrow waterway into the port, such as the excursion from the Gulf into the port of New Orleans.

Many are suggesting that these folks need to be put into a position to take a shower before being bused to their hotels. Do you have any idea how long something like this would take? or the lgoistics of providing hot water and soap for over 3000 people? Imagine someone taking a long hot shower while others wait in line to get their turn. Folks are complaining about waiting in line to get a sandwich, and you want to subject them to this?

I am really amazed at the "sue" mentality of people and how a company who was providing a vacation service to people is ready to be sacrificed at the altar of the courts for a few measly dollars that will likely mostly go to the lawyers.

I for one would be happy that I was alive considering the implications of what happened. I have traveled extensively in some third world countries and I know that these should not be compared, but the stench of sewage is not going to kill them, and certainly is not worthy of lawsuit.

[sjn911]

After watching this ordeal, I think if I was designing a cruise ship, the one thing I would have is a redundant system to make damn sure the sewage system works. Ive been on ships all my life and its entirely possible, by making the system able to be isolated from the original operating system, but using the same piping. The problem is the commodes are vacuum flush and the holding tanks. Both need a power source to operate them. Give them there own axillary power source in the front of the ship or away from the engine rooms, to be used in case of emergency or if needed.

Money, a a bit of space and designer attitude are the only things that would be stopping this from happening.

 

In both CCL instances, if you take the sewage out of this equation it makes the rest seem rather tame.

 

Just thinking outta the box like I've been known to do once in a while.

billd

 

I hope the the last 3 huge mishaps on Carnival owned vessels will help facilitate all kinds of improvements and thinking out of box.

[Hnjlopezva3]

hi I don't know if this is allowed, but our local dallas station, wfaa, just posted a pic to their facebook page showing the deck with sheets tied up making basically a tent fort.

 

hope this works.. if not.. please forgive me for breaking any rules. :)

 

[ARCruisinNana]

I'm tracking Triumph on VesselFinder. Doesn't look like she's making much progress:(

[scottamemnon]

This came up a couple days ago on this thread. Both RCI and Celebrity have solar power on some of their ships. They provide enough power to light some of the larger public areas, such as the Royal Promenade on Oasis Class. Carnival was asked about the possibility of installing solar panals on their ships. They said they would not because the return on investment was not high enough.

 

Here's a link to an article about it:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/01/18/story10.html?page=all

 

The power plants on these ships produces between 50-150 MW of power. Thats what a cruise ship needs to be fully powered.

 

With current technology there is not enough surface area on the ship for solar power to do this.

 

You would need an orbital solar generator with power beaming technology to do any kind of solar on that scale. Such technology is only a futuristic dream currently even if technologically possible currently.

[RetiredArmyCruiser]

"I am really amazed at the "sue" mentality of people and how a company who was providing a vacation service to people is ready to be sacrificed at the altar of the courts for a few measly dollars that will likely mostly go to the lawyers."

 

Maybe a lawsuit doesn't have to be about money. Maybe a lawsuit can be to make a change in behavior. Maybe a lawsuit can be to make a change in safety regulations. Maybe a lawsuit can be to make sure it doesn't happen to someone else.

 

Money isn't always the driving factor.

[Oma24boys]

I have talked to my wife numerous times today and this is what she said!

 

1. They did have to wait in line for hours for food.

 

2. They have been living on bread and fruit

 

3. They were sleeping on the deck under sheets made into tents. She called it "Shanty Town"

 

4. The crew has been working non stop to make them comfortable!

 

5. They had use bags for restrooms, but they also found random toilets that were working because there was a long line! They had to wait for that restroom because after every person the crew had to poor water to get it to flush.

 

6. There is sewage on the floors. The carpets were squishy.

 

7. She said the worst part of it was worrying about the babies. Last night Carnival made an announcement looking for anyone with formula!

 

8. Her biggest complaint was that Carnival was not updating them very much. I knew much more then her!

 

Thank you for the update...praying your wife is doing well as can be expected. I also pray when they brought supplies today formula was included!!!!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[gtalum]

I would be interested to hear all of the arm chair quarterbacks hear tell me how Carnival could have handled this situation much differently.

 

I don't think there's much they could have done better in the aftermath of the fire. I question the decision to go to Mobile instead of Progreso, but then i'm not a seafaring expert.

 

The big problem lies with carnival's maintenance and safety procedures. Clearly there is a problem, as this has happened 3 times in 3 years on Carnival Corp ships.

[broberts]

After watching this ordeal, I think if I was designing a cruise ship, the one thing I would have is a redundant system to make damn sure the sewage system works. Ive been on ships all my life and its entirely possible, by making the system able to be isolated from the original operating system, but using the same piping. The problem is the commodes are vacuum flush and the holding tanks. Both need a power source to operate them. Give them there own axillary power source in the front of the ship or away from the engine rooms, to be used in case of emergency or if needed.

Money, a a bit of space and designer attitude are the only things that would be stopping this from happening.

 

In both CCL instances, if you take the sewage out of this equation it makes the rest seem rather tame.

 

Just thinking outta the box like I've been known to do once in a while.

billd

 

One can only hope that ship designers will take your advice and are busy re-examining current work to see how they can solve the waste disposal problem when power is lost. Being a bit of a cynic I suspect the bean counters will argue against any solution.

[geesherry]

HaHa....It's like the OJ chase all over again but in slow motion!

 

OMG! Too funny. Too true!

[shof515]

CNN now reporting ship is going so slow it will not port until sometime tomorrow.

 

it looks like shes not moving at all on the cnn live feed

[Aquahound]

I hope the the last 3 huge mishaps on Carnival owned vessels will help facilitate all kinds of improvements and thinking out of box.

 

When these sort of things occur in a military force, police force, etc, a safety stand-down is necessary to take a good look at the trend, what is causing them, and what changes need to be made to prevent them from happening again. If this is not already happening, the Carnival big-wigs really need to take a good, hard look at recent events and if need be, implement corporate wide changes. Between the 3 major incidents and the rash of collisions over the past few years, this is overdue.