Celebrity Triumph...Curious

[indigosails]

I haven't seen this addressed anywhere before, either here or on the news, but I am curious as to why they didn't use the lifeboats to offload the passengers? Anyone know?

[cruiseryyc]

First off, it was Carnival not Celebrity. Why would they abandon the ship? It wasn't sinking.

[navybankerteacher]

I haven't seen this addressed anywhere before, either here or on the news, but I am curious as to why they didn't use the lifeboats to offload the passengers? Anyone know?

 

a) The lifeboats are also without toilets,

 

b) The lifeboats carried no food beyond meager emergency rations, if

that.

 

c) There was nowhere better to take the passengers.

[indigosails]

Okay, good answers, thanks. Makes sense.

And I posed the question first thing in the AM, so my brain wasn't awake yet. Yes, Carnival.

[trabeler]

Loading and lowering lifeboats is a relatively high risk activity, especially on a ship that is listing and unable to stabilize itself due to loss of power. They are only used when staying on the ship would be more risky due to sinking or uncontrolled fire.

 

Just recently a routine lifeboat lowering drill turned into a deadly incident:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/dead-cruise-ship-lifeboat-drill-spain-18456997

[SuiteTraveler]

I do wonder why Carnival didn't take those passengers who had their passports with them, who were physically fit and could manage the transfer more easily off of the Triumph, afterall, Carnival was able to bring another of their ships alongside Triumph on the second day. Lifeboats are risky, but they are designed so that passengers can be safely offloaded to another ship and even listing, the lifeboats on the lower side of the Triumph would still be usable. The crew is trained in lowering lifeboats and know what they are doing. Yes, a fatality might occur at any point of the transfer to and from the lifeboats, but lifeboat drills where the crew actually lower and return lifeboats are perfomed regularily and there was a good chance that there would not be a fatality at all, especially if only the physically fit passengers were put into lifeboats. It seems to me if those passengers who would be the least at risk had been transferred to another ship - even if they had to sit up in public lounges all night until that ship reached it's next port - that it would have decreased the strain on the damaged and dwindling resources on the Triumph and it probably would have been preferable to those passengers rather than staying on Triumph for 4 more days. A significant decrease in the number onboard Triumph really would have made things easier for everyone, crew and passengers alike since it is easier to manage limited food for only a few hundred passengers than for thousands. Even non-essential crew could have been taken off the ship in this manner. If this had been done, the remaining passengers could have been moved to balcony or suite staterooms in the least damaged part of the ship and near the 10 working bathrooms. I also suspect that having fewer people on the Triumph might have limited some of the problems and damages from sewage on the ship. There would not have been such long food lines and things would have been easier on the staff as a whole. But, from what I've read, many of the passengers on Triumph didn't have passports with them, and perhaps this is the reason behind Carnival's decision to keep everyone onboard. But I remain unconvinced keeping everyone onboard was the right or only thing to do and I would need to hear from Carnival as to exactly why that decision was made before I would feel comfortable that it was a good decision. I do hope that this information has been communicated to the passengers who debarked Triumph.

[Aquahound]

SuiteTraveler - the bottom line is, it couldn't be done. One, the ship is the primary life boat. You do not evacuate unless ship or persons are in imminent danger. Nether were. Two, USCG said no. Even if CCL considered it, which I doubt they did with any seriousness, the CG would have stopped it.

[marco]

An other question......I see there has already been a lawsuit filed and I'm sure there are more to come. My understanding is that the passengers are getting a refund, $500, a future cruise free and transportation home. If you were not injured and not ill......what are the damages you'd be seeking......A million $$$$$$$ for annoyance and inconvenience ?

[celle]

Just an FYI for the OP: Triumph is a Carnival ship, not a Celebrity ship.

[GORDONCHICK]

You can't put more people on a ship than there are seats in the life boats for. The 2 ships that came along side Triumph and passed food and other supplies over - they were already full. And besides life boat seats, there wouldn't have even been mattresses for them. And, as already mentioned, you've endangered people that weren't in danger.

[momofmeg]

SuiteTraveler - the bottom line is, it couldn't be done. One, the ship is the primary life boat. You do not evacuate unless ship or persons are in imminent danger. Nether were. Two, USCG said no. Even if CCL considered it, which I doubt they did with any seriousness, the CG would have stopped it.

 

Brucemuzz said in another thread that they flew off those with passports but that 2000 PAX did not have passports an dso had to stay. I wondered if that was true.

[Aquahound]

Brucemuzz said in another thread that they flew off those with passports but that 2000 PAX did not have passports an dso had to stay. I wondered if that was true.

 

There is no truth to that whatsoever. No one was flown off.

[GORDONCHICK]

There is no truth to that whatsoever. No one was flown off.

 

Actually, the lady needing dialysis on Monday was and then another Wednesday night, but I don't remember why.

[Aquahound]

Actually, the lady needing dialysis on Monday was and then another Wednesday night, but I don't remember why.

 

No, they were not flown off either. The first was transferred to Carnival Legend and the second was taken by CG boat. The second was a stroke victim.

[chipq]

They were kept on the ship as that was the safest for the passengers. Remember the ship became disabled about 190 miles off the Yucatan peninsula and was drifting northeast. The lifeboats with motors also do not have restroom, likely do not carry enough fuel to go 190 miles and traveling against the current could possible get as slow a speed as 10 miles per hour, they are tenders; short distance use vessels. One would have to sit shoulder to shoulder with other guests for 15 to 19 hours to get back to the nearest land. As difficult as conditions were, the ship was the best available.

 

http://luv2cruise.blogspot.com

[MermaidWatcher]

I haven't seen this addressed anywhere before, either here or on the news, but I am curious as to why they didn't use the lifeboats to offload the passengers? Anyone know?

 

And then what? :mad: I'd much rather be on the open deck of a 900' ship than crammed in a 40' lifeboat with a hundred other people. That defies logic that you would take people from a large, structurally sound ship and launch them into lifeboats.

[MermaidWatcher]

I do wonder why Carnival didn't take those passengers who had their passports with them, who were physically fit and could manage the transfer more easily off of the Triumph, afterall, Carnival was able to bring another of their ships alongside Triumph on the second day. Lifeboats are risky, but they are designed so that passengers can be safely offloaded to another ship and even listing, the lifeboats on the lower side of the Triumph would still be usable. The crew is trained in lowering lifeboats and know what they are doing. Yes, a fatality might occur at any point of the transfer to and from the lifeboats, but lifeboat drills where the crew actually lower and return lifeboats are perfomed regularily and there was a good chance that there would not be a fatality at all, especially if only the physically fit passengers were put into lifeboats. It seems to me if those passengers who would be the least at risk had been transferred to another ship - even if they had to sit up in public lounges all night until that ship reached it's next port - that it would have decreased the strain on the damaged and dwindling resources on the Triumph and it probably would have been preferable to those passengers rather than staying on Triumph for 4 more days. A significant decrease in the number onboard Triumph really would have made things easier for everyone, crew and passengers alike since it is easier to manage limited food for only a few hundred passengers than for thousands. Even non-essential crew could have been taken off the ship in this manner. If this had been done, the remaining passengers could have been moved to balcony or suite staterooms in the least damaged part of the ship and near the 10 working bathrooms. I also suspect that having fewer people on the Triumph might have limited some of the problems and damages from sewage on the ship. There would not have been such long food lines and things would have been easier on the staff as a whole. But, from what I've read, many of the passengers on Triumph didn't have passports with them, and perhaps this is the reason behind Carnival's decision to keep everyone onboard. But I remain unconvinced keeping everyone onboard was the right or only thing to do and I would need to hear from Carnival as to exactly why that decision was made before I would feel comfortable that it was a good decision. I do hope that this information has been communicated to the passengers who debarked Triumph.

Defies common sense and logical thinking about passenger safety. The passengers were in no danger on the ship, but are in plenty danger when you start trying to transfer a shipfull of landlubbers from one ship to another on the open sea.

[MermaidWatcher]

An other question......I see there has already been a lawsuit filed and I'm sure there are more to come. My understanding is that the passengers are getting a refund, $500, a future cruise free and transportation home. If you were not injured and not ill......what are the damages you'd be seeking......A million $$$$$$$ for annoyance and inconvenience ?

 

Ooooooooooh..... I'm traumatized, got back pain, neck pain, stomach afflictions, respiratory troubles,nightmares, PTSD, and pretty sure PMS too. Wait, is the the faint aroma of crisp hundred dollar bills I smell? Yes sir, I'm feeling better already.

[Mary Ellen]

Brucemuzz said in another thread that they flew off those with passports but that 2000 PAX did not have passports an dso had to stay. I wondered if that was true.

You're not quite remembering correctly. He did not say that any passengers had been flown off. The following post was from when it was expected that the ship would be towed back to Mexico, not the US. Once there any passengers with passports could have been flown back to the US (or wherever).

 

Correction:

 

Guests WITH PASSPORTS will be flown home.

 

My friends at Carnival tell me that there are approximately 2,000 pax on Triumph who do not have passports. It is a closed loop cruise from the USA, so passports are not required.

 

Those 2,000 people can sit in the Yucatan for a few weeks waiting for a very expensive emergency passport - or they can ride a bus for a few days from Yucatan to the USA.

 

[SuiteTraveler]

Defies common sense and logical thinking about passenger safety. The passengers were in no danger on the ship, but are in plenty danger when you start trying to transfer a shipfull of landlubbers from one ship to another on the open sea.

 

Actually exposing passengers to raw sewage without the ability to bathe defies common sense. Reducing the numbers exposed and taking the best care of those most in need, (i.e. elderly, children) make more sense.

 

I wasn't suggesting they transfer all pax - only the ones who were the most fit and who had passports in order to give the best possible assistance to those who needed help the most. Or perhaps that's completely unreasonable...

[Bonnie J.]

At one point they were 150 miles from shore then later they decided to go to Mobile instead of Progresso because Mobil was 90 miles away. That is MUCH to far to ferry people off the ships via lifeboats!

[momofmeg]

You're not quite remembering correctly. He did not say that any passengers had been flown off. The following post was from when it was expected that the ship would be towed back to Mexico, not the US. Once there any passengers with passports could have been flown back to the US (or wherever).

 

 

 

 

Well Amercians do not need passports to fly from Mobile, Alabama do they? That is one of the 50 US states. Brucemuzz indicated 2000 people would be either be stuck on ship or in a foreign country because they did not have passports and those with passports would be taken care of by Carnival. How did their having passports make it any better for them than the other 2000 minus passports?

 

BTW I have a passport and agree we should have them. I am just saying he indicated false information.

[celle]

Well Amercians do not need passports to fly from Mobile, Alabama do they? That is one of the 50 US states. Brucemuzz indicated 2000 people would be either be stuck on ship or in a foreign country because they did not have passports and those with passports would be taken care of by Carnival. How did their having passports make it any better for them than the other 2000 minus passports?

 

BTW I have a passport and agree we should have them. I am just saying he indicated false information.

 

He gave that information when the plan was for the ship to go to Progresso, Mexico, not Mobile. At that time, it was not false information. However, the plans were changed and his information became obsolete.

[Aquahound]

Was that the plan was that the RUMOR that was the plan?

 

Progresso was the first consideration. However, that changed when time and currents were factored in and they discovered it would have been a difficult tow to go south.

[momofmeg]

He gave that information when the plan was for the ship to go to Progresso, Mexico, not Mobile. At that time, it was not false information. However, the plans were changed and his information became obsolete.

 

Was that the plan was that the RUMOR that was the plan?