Titanic II to be constructed in China

[retafcruiser]

She is also built for high speed service - a good 10-15 knots higher than the other passenger ships plying the world's oceans today.

 

Built for it, but not making use of it. Because of wear and tear on the pods as well as fuel costs, the normal full sailing speed has been reduced to 24 knots. That is about the same as many cruise ships.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

Not that I want to complain but I thought the topic of this thread was about the proposal to build Titanic II not about whether QM2 is an Ocean Liner or a Cruise Ship. My opinion is that QM2 is an Ocean Liner. Regards,Jerry

[PS Caledonia]

I just wish QM2 would do more of what she was designed and built for.

 

Nothing beats crossing the Atlantic on a properly designed ship at 28 knots. I've tried cruising on her but for me, it just doesn't work. On the North Atlantic, she really shines and comes into her own element.

 

Yes, she is and always will be a North Atlantic "liner" in my eyes, even though she spends too long off her proper stomping grounds doing cruises.

 

QM2 really is one of a kind and has a presence no other ship can match.. (I am slightly biased...)

 

It's just a sin that economics dictate her current slow speed.

[BlueRiband]

I just wish QM2 would do more of what she was designed and built for...QM2 really is one of a kind and has a presence no other ship can match.. (I am slightly biased...) It's just a sin that economics dictate her current slow speed.

 

Yes, she has a presence in New York harbor that sets her apart from every other passenger ship. Crew and passengers on the ferries and tour boats know Queen Mary 2 by sight and every other passenger ship is just "a cruise ship". And with almost every one now waiting for a fare "deal" before booking we won't see six day crossings return.

 

 

I also remember that a rich wealthy South African man whose name is Sarel Gous wanted to build his version of the Titanic which would have been the largest Ocean Liner ever built to look like the Titanic with 4 funnels on top of the ship. He walked away from his project when he got sticker shock at the price it would cost to build his version of the Titanic, I think this was about a year or two before construction started on the QM2. Regards,Jerry

 

About six months ago I would have said the same thing and you may ultimately be right. What changed my opinion was his signing on a professional naval architect firm as opposed to just having a graphic artist draw up their vision from the 1995 Popular Mechanics feature. He's also invested in an interior designer and model basin testing after signing on V. Ships to manage the vessel operations. While the man might have a reputation as a media whore, in my evaluation he has put too much public effort into this to just walk away without losing a good deal of business credibility.

[BlueRiband]

I was off by several years, but the Titanic Reborn article was published in 1998 and can be read online for free.

 

The piece extensively quotes an instructor from the Webb Institute in New York. (Webb has only one academic program - a double major in naval architecture and marine engineering. Stephen Payne is a board member.) While the 1998 version doesn't have the "safety deck" everything else was not too far off from the current Deltamarin version.

[Austcruiser84]

Built for it, but not making use of it. Because of wear and tear on the pods as well as fuel costs, the normal full sailing speed has been reduced to 24 knots. That is about the same as many cruise ships.

 

Most cruise ships make 18 knots (with max speed of 21 knots).

 

I really don't know why people would complain about being on such a beautiful liner for longer! 4 days isn't enough - id have hardly unpacked!

 

Titanic II (if built) will have the novelty factor for a while, but if Palmer is going to run it back and forth across the Atlantic then I don't think he will get the business he seeks.

 

Not to mention that she will be a little larger than the original. I'd hate to think what rough seas will do to her! QM2 is big enough to handle the Atlantic.

 

That said,mthe way Palmer is going, I have some doubts he will be able to afford to build her.

[balf]

Most cruise ships make 18 knots (with max speed of 21 knots).

 

I really don't know why people would complain about being on such a beautiful liner for longer! 4 days isn't enough - id have hardly unpacked!

 

.

 

But the speed on the crossing was just the point.

 

Now it is little different than a leg of a cruise.

 

David.

[Austcruiser84]

But the speed on the crossing was just the point.

 

Now it is little different than a leg of a cruise.

 

David.

 

24 knot crossings - that was a normal speed for the Lusitania and Mauretania. Only a handful of ocean liners ever clocked a higher speed on the Atlantic.

[glojo]

Not that I want to complain but I thought the topic of this thread was about the proposal to build Titanic II not about whether QM2 is an Ocean Liner or a Cruise Ship. My opinion is that QM2 is an Ocean Liner. Regards,Jerry

well said and many apologies for getting sucked in top taking this debate off topic (I do have a history for this but never in a vindictive manner)

 

I really dislike the vindictive attitude one person has taken for my daring to ask questions regarding the QM2 but we are who we are and this issue will get sorted early next year.

 

 

 

It's worth noting that many ocean liners were taken off scheduled routes and used as cruise ships during lean times. They were still liners.

 

Even the RMS Queen Elizabeth took on cruise duties between NYC and Nassau.

 

So, Queen Mary 2 can still be considered a liner. She maintains a TA schedule in between cruises.

 

Even by appearance, you can tell QM2 isn't a cruise ship. She is also built for high speed service - a good 10-15 knots higher than the other passenger ships plying the world's oceans today.

 

Hi Austcruiser,

Thank you for highlighting that and I feel you have I think hit the nail squarely on the head and if an ocean liner is always an ocean liner then my question has been answered but is that the case? Quite literally dozens and dozens of ocean liners wewre removed from service. The great majority being far, far smaller than most modern day floating hotels.

 

The Blue Riband contenders were amzing ships the like of which we might never see again but whgat about all the other ocean liners that traversed the Idian, Pacific or indeed Atlantic Ocean?

 

To suggest this ship had a longer range, higher freeboard or carried more food than some of the more modern, larger cruise ships is factually incorrect, but she was an ocean liner

 

 

To suggest if a ship was designed as an ocean liner, built as an ocean liner, commissioned as an ocean liner is then always going to be an ocean liner may or may not be factually incorrect but if this is the case then it does indeed answer my query but it then contradicts itself as the Queen Mary 2 by that very definition is not the only ocean going liner still in commission.

 

If having one or maybe two scheduled back to back trips across the Atlantic per year with passengers using that service to get from one port to another makes a ship an ocean liner, then would that make it an ocean liner?

 

No matter what vindinctive words are used I am simply trying to find out why the Queen Mary 2 is an ocean liner.

 

The Marco Polo is still operational, she was built as an ocean liner, used as an ocean liner and might I suggest she was built to a more sturdy design than the Queen Mary 2?

 

This ship is still operational, she is still cruising the high seas and yet she is not deemed to be an ocean liner?

 

No matter what vindictive words are thrown in my direction all I am simply doing is asking why is the Queen Mary 2 an ocean liner?

 

The only reason I can think of is down to a regular and scheduled crossing of the Atlantic

 

An ocean liner is a ship designed to transport people from one seaport to another along regular long-distance maritime routes according to a schedule

 

Does that ship match the definition? Some folks might say yes, other might say no it does not.

 

Ocean linery does not include ferries or other vessels engaged in short-sea trading, nor dedicated cruise ships where the voyage itself, and not transportation, is the prime purpose of the trip

 

Is the Queen Mary 2 a cruise ship that does the odd back to back run across the Atlantic or is she a ship that does the odd cruise inbetween back to back runs to New York?

 

I stand by my obsewrvatiuon of criticising those that suggest I do not like this ship... Those words are indeed childish and immature. How dare anyone try to tell me what I like or dislike. I am indeed guilty of being stubborn and maybe stubborn to the point of annoyance but all I am trying to do is answer a question that bugs me.

 

The Marco Polo is either an ocean liner or not an ocean liner. It was built as one, just like the Queen Mary 2 was built as one and both ships are still sailing the high seas.

 

 

My original question whicvh saw folks take this thread off topic still stands..

 

If and when the Titanic II becomes operational, will she take trade away from the Queen Mary 2 and if so will it see that ship doing fewer vists to New York? I am in the corner that believes there is only a finite number of people that enjoy this experience and wonder what the consequences might be.

 

Apologies for the thread drift and apologies for my stubborness but I will not be bullied into submission (all I want is an answer and I guess I will indeed ask this question elsewhere)

Edited September 20, 2013 by glojo

[Cruise Liner Fan]

well said and many apologies for getting sucked in top taking this debate off topic (I do have a history for this but never in a vindictive manner)

 

I really dislike the vindictive attitude one person has taken for my daring to ask questions regarding the QM2 but we are who we are and this issue will get sorted early next year.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Austcruiser,

Thank you for highlighting that and I feel you have I think hit the nail squarely on the head and if an ocean liner is always an ocean liner then my question has been answered but is that the case? Quite literally dozens and dozens of ocean liners wewre removed from service. The great majority being far, far smaller than most modern day floating hotels.

 

The Blue Riband contenders were amzing ships the like of which we might never see again but whgat about all the other ocean liners that traversed the Idian, Pacific or indeed Atlantic Ocean?

 

To suggest this ship had a longer range, higher freeboard or carried more food than some of the more modern, larger cruise ships is factually incorrect, but she was an ocean liner

 

 

To suggest if a ship was designed as an ocean liner, built as an ocean liner, commissioned as an ocean liner is then always going to be an ocean liner may or may not be factually incorrect but if this is the case then it does indeed answer my query but it then contradicts itself as the Queen Mary 2 by that very definition is not the only ocean going liner still in commission.

 

If having one or maybe two scheduled back to back trips across the Atlantic per year with passengers using that service to get from one port to another makes a ship an ocean liner, then would that make it an ocean liner?

 

No matter what vindinctive words are used I am simply trying to find out why the Queen Mary 2 is an ocean liner.

 

The Marco Polo is still operational, she was built as an ocean liner, used as an ocean liner and might I suggest she was built to a more sturdy design than the Queen Mary 2?

 

This ship is still operational, she is still cruising the high seas and yet she is not deemed to be an ocean liner?

 

No matter what vindictive words are thrown in my direction all I am simply doing is asking why is the Queen Mary 2 an ocean liner?

 

The only reason I can think of is down to a regular and scheduled crossing of the Atlantic

 

 

 

Does that ship match the definition? Some folks might say yes, other might say no it does not.

 

 

 

Is the Queen Mary 2 a cruise ship that does the odd back to back run across the Atlantic or is she a ship that does the odd cruise inbetween back to back runs to New York?

 

I stand by my obsewrvatiuon of criticising those that suggest I do not like this ship... Those words are indeed childish and immature. How dare anyone try to tell me what I like or dislike. I am indeed guilty of being stubborn and maybe stubborn to the point of annoyance but all I am trying to do is answer a question that bugs me.

 

The Marco Polo is either an ocean liner or not an ocean liner. It was built as one, just like the Queen Mary 2 was built as one and both ships are still sailing the high seas.

 

 

My original question whicvh saw folks take this thread off topic still stands..

 

If and when the Titanic II becomes operational, will she take trade away from the Queen Mary 2 and if so will it see that ship doing fewer vists to New York? I am in the corner that believes there is only a finite number of people that enjoy this experience and wonder what the consequences might be.

 

Apologies for the thread drift and apologies for my stubborness but I will not be bullied into submission (all I want is an answer and I guess I will indeed ask this question elsewhere)

If the Titanic II takes away passengers from the QM2 and as a result of that the QM2 dramatically reduces the number of transatlantic crossings she does each year (Next year in 2014 the QM2 does 17 transatlantic crossings about the same number as this year 2013) then I would rather not see the Titanic II get built. When the proposed Titanic II is a smaller ship than the QM2 what WOW factor is there concerning the Titanic II? And I still think WOW when I look at the QM2. Also in my opinion the QM2's Britannia Restaurant is a more beautiful room than the first class restaurant aboard the original Titanic (In the movies A Night to Remember and James Cameron's Titanic, the Titanic's first class restaurant was faithfully and accurately re-created). But then again Wikipedia claims that Clive Palmer's wealth is only somewhere between $750 Million and $800 Million. Is this enough wealth to build the Titanic II? Regards,Jerry Edited September 20, 2013 by Cruise Liner Fan

[glojo]

If the Titanic II takes away passengers from the QM2 and as a result of that the QM2 dramatically reduces the number of transatlantic crossings she does each year (Next year in 2014 the QM2 does 17 transatlantic crossings about the same number as this year 2013) then I would rather not see the Titanic II get built. When the proposed Titanic II is a smaller ship than the QM2 what WOW factor is there concerning the Titanic II? And I still think WOW when I look at the QM2. Also in my opinion the QM2's Britannia Restaurant is a more beautiful room than the first class restaurant aboard the original Titanic (In the movies A Night to Remember and James Cameron's Titanic, the Titanic's first class restaurant was faithfully and accurately re-created). But then again Wikipedia claims that Clive Palmer's wealth is only somewhere between $750 Million and $800 Million. Is this enough wealth to build the Titanic II? Regards,Jerry

I am a huge fan of everything that Cunard represents and agree with what you say but that is being said without seeing the interior of a ship that has not been built.

 

To me crossing a cold bleak Atlantic should be done in the most comfortable way possible :o:D and I totally accept the Atlantic is not always cold and not always bleak but is it 'the bigger the ship, the more comfortable the ride'? (said in a light hearted and humorous way) The Queen Mary 2 is the ideal, absolute ideal vessel for this type of crossing, I can envisage some folks trying out the Titanic II (if it ever gets built) but will they stay loyal to that ship? The other vessel has a huge following where the name gets 'posteriors on bunks'. what type of name or reputation does the Titanic have? :eek:;)

[Austcruiser84]

Glojo,

 

I think some posters think an ocean liner only traverses the Atlantic. While history has always favoured the great Transatlantic liners, most ships built for the lines were smaller liners that plied the trade and passenger routes from Europe to Canada, South America, Africa, Australia, India and the Orient.

 

QM2 is an ocean liner. She does cruises, but structurally she is a liner. The most telling physical feature is the very pointed bow.

 

As for Titanic II take business away, I predict that, should it be built, the novelty factor will soon wear thin. Herein lie some of the faults:

 

- She is nearly to the scale as the original. This will surely see some truly awful crossings. If the weather turns sour, as it did before Sandy, Titanic II would not be able to speed out of port like QM2 did. Even with modern stabilisers and other anti pitch/rolling mechanisms, I suspect a heavy sea will knock her around something awful.

 

- The strict class system will cause trouble. While people will inevitably book staterooms according to their capacity to pay and their tastes, all cruise lines give free access to the vast majority of deck space (even on Cunard, 90% of the venues and facilities are for all passengers). However, Palmer envisages a true class based system where, if you book the steerage experience, you will only be able to enjoy (I question this) the steerage facilities. Judging by the plans of the original Titanic, this means approximately 2/3 of the passengers will have access to 1/4 of the ship. There will be an extra deck between C and D levels, but this is only for 1st class passengers (and apparently 55+ passengers will be banned from the casino - not sure why). I can see the Maiden Voyage being something of an occasion, but subsequent voyages being rather tedious if you are not a premium passenger.

 

- The fares Palmer plans to charge are going to be quite out of reach, especially for 1st class. Again, once the novelty factor wears thin he will either have to cut fares or the ship will eventually need to be sold off as a hotel.

 

- Building on the last point, only two 1st class staterooms (the Millionaires' Suites) had private balconies. Even on TA crossings, it seems Cunard passengers love their balconies. I think this will be a problem. While Palmer plans to have all the rooms equipped with bathroom facilities (thank goodness for steerage passengers, who in 1912 had access to only 3 bath tubs - a first for that class on a TA liner!) balconies won't be added as far as can be seen from the plans released. I think a lot of people won't like this.

 

- QM2 TA crossings during some parts of the year are only filled by slashing fares dramatically. It's still popular, but nowhere near popular enough to run a ship back and forth on a golden age schedule. He would need to run her to other destinations like Cunard does with their ships. And with only two staterooms with balconies (which are enclosed) I think few people would book a Titanic II cruise, to say, the Caribbean or the Med.

 

- Those desiring an authentic experience will be disappointed. Modern regulations prevent ships using many kinds of materials and ornamentation used during the early 20th century. Even QM2 shows a little faux in parts. I'm not quite sure how it would look trying to replicate the old with the new.

 

- Ultimately, with modern laws and regulations, even the exterior will look noticeably different. The boat deck will have replica lifeboats, but the real ones will be located between decks C and D (the hull line) and will naturally stand out. This will drastically alter the look of the ship.

 

- Finally, there is a distinct lack of open deck space and unless Palmer is preparing to alter the boat deck, poop, or fore of the ship, the only pool on board will be on F deck and be for 1st class use only. Again, I smell passengers rethinking their travel plans, especially if he sails her off the Atlantic to make money.

 

I'm sure I have forgotten a few things, but those spring to mind. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to sail on her just once to experience a bit of faux history. I'd naturally sail first class because I couldn't bear the thought of being restricted to so little of the ship (and no, I'm not likely to want to go to 'a real party'). Plus, it's the 1st class interiors that everyone fusses over anyway. That said, I'd like to tour 2nd class as this is an oft neglected section of the ship in history books.

 

However, I'd feel much more at home on something like QM2, which has the appearance and feel of a grand liner, but all the creature comforts of modern cruising.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

I am a huge fan of everything that Cunard represents and agree with what you say but that is being said without seeing the interior of a ship that has not been built.

 

To me crossing a cold bleak Atlantic should be done in the most comfortable way possible :o:D and I totally accept the Atlantic is not always cold and not always bleak but is it 'the bigger the ship, the more comfortable the ride'? (said in a light hearted and humorous way) The Queen Mary 2 is the ideal, absolute ideal vessel for this type of crossing, I can envisage some folks trying out the Titanic II (if it ever gets built) but will they stay loyal to that ship? The other vessel has a huge following where the name gets 'posteriors on bunks'. what type of name or reputation does the Titanic have? :eek:;)

I assume you are referring to the first class restaurant aboard Titanic II? Well I am referring to the movies A Night to Remember and James Cameron's Titanic as to what the first class restaurant aboard Titanic II will look like since we were told that all the public rooms aboard Titanic II will look like the public rooms aboard the original Titanic. Then there is the claim that there will not be any internet service aboard Titanic II. Are they kidding with that idea? A lot of passengers today want internet service aboard ship. Regards,Jerry

[Austcruiser84]

I assume you are referring to the first class restaurant aboard Titanic II? Well I am referring to the movies A Night to Remember and James Cameron's Titanic as to what the first class restaurant aboard Titanic II will look like since we were told that all the public rooms aboard Titanic II will look like the public rooms aboard the original Titanic. Then there is the claim that there will not be any internet service aboard Titanic II. Are they kidding with that idea? A lot of passengers today want internet service aboard ship. Regards,Jerry

 

No Internet aboard? They might need to post security at the stern...

 

Add 'no Internet' to my above lists of apparently faults.

[glojo]

Glojo,

 

I think some posters think an ocean liner only traverses the Atlantic. While history has always favoured the great Transatlantic liners, most ships built for the lines were smaller liners that plied the trade and passenger routes from Europe to Canada, South America, Africa, Australia, India and the Orient.

 

QM2 is an ocean liner. She does cruises, but structurally she is a liner. The most telling physical feature is the very pointed bow.

 

As for Titanic II take business away, I predict that, should it be built, the novelty factor will soon wear thin. Herein lie some of the faults:

 

- She is nearly to the scale as the original. This will surely see some truly awful crossings. If the weather turns sour, as it did before Sandy, Titanic II would not be able to speed out of port like QM2 did. Even with modern stabilisers and other anti pitch/rolling mechanisms, I suspect a heavy sea will knock her around something awful.

 

- The strict class system will cause trouble. While people will inevitably book staterooms according to their capacity to pay and their tastes, all cruise lines give free access to the vast majority of deck space (even on Cunard, 90% of the venues and facilities are for all passengers). However, Palmer envisages a true class based system where, if you book the steerage experience, you will only be able to enjoy (I question this) the steerage facilities. Judging by the plans of the original Titanic, this means approximately 2/3 of the passengers will have access to 1/4 of the ship. There will be an extra deck between C and D levels, but this is only for 1st class passengers (and apparently 55+ passengers will be banned from the casino - not sure why). I can see the Maiden Voyage being something of an occasion, but subsequent voyages being rather tedious if you are not a premium passenger.

 

- The fares Palmer plans to charge are going to be quite out of reach, especially for 1st class. Again, once the novelty factor wears thin he will either have to cut fares or the ship will eventually need to be sold off as a hotel.

 

- Building on the last point, only two 1st class staterooms (the Millionaires' Suites) had private balconies. Even on TA crossings, it seems Cunard passengers love their balconies. I think this will be a problem. While Palmer plans to have all the rooms equipped with bathroom facilities (thank goodness for steerage passengers, who in 1912 had access to only 3 bath tubs - a first for that class on a TA liner!) balconies won't be added as far as can be seen from the plans released. I think a lot of people won't like this.

 

- QM2 TA crossings during some parts of the year are only filled by slashing fares dramatically. It's still popular, but nowhere near popular enough to run a ship back and forth on a golden age schedule. He would need to run her to other destinations like Cunard does with their ships. And with only two staterooms with balconies (which are enclosed) I think few people would book a Titanic II cruise, to say, the Caribbean or the Med.

 

- Those desiring an authentic experience will be disappointed. Modern regulations prevent ships using many kinds of materials and ornamentation used during the early 20th century. Even QM2 shows a little faux in parts. I'm not quite sure how it would look trying to replicate the old with the new.

 

- Ultimately, with modern laws and regulations, even the exterior will look noticeably different. The boat deck will have replica lifeboats, but the real ones will be located between decks C and D (the hull line) and will naturally stand out. This will drastically alter the look of the ship.

 

- Finally, there is a distinct lack of open deck space and unless Palmer is preparing to alter the boat deck, poop, or fore of the ship, the only pool on board will be on F deck and be for 1st class use only. Again, I smell passengers rethinking their travel plans, especially if he sails her off the Atlantic to make money.

 

I'm sure I have forgotten a few things, but those spring to mind. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to sail on her just once to experience a bit of faux history. I'd naturally sail first class because I couldn't bear the thought of being restricted to so little of the ship (and no, I'm not likely to want to go to 'a real party'). Plus, it's the 1st class interiors that everyone fusses over anyway. That said, I'd like to tour 2nd class as this is an oft neglected section of the ship in history books.

 

However, I'd feel much more at home on something like QM2, which has the appearance and feel of a grand liner, but all the creature comforts of modern cruising.

As usual you make excellent points and yes some of the older liners were very small, and we are talking about displacing just over 20,000 tons.

 

The bows of a ship certainly make a ship a ship :) (humour) but putting the humour to one side I hope the Titanic has the cutting bows of her predecessor but as you so rightly suggest, in the very worse of conditions passengers are going to be in for a rude awakening on a ship of her size in adverse conditions.

 

I go along with all that you say but what are your thoughts regarding Marco Polo? She was built as an ocean going liner and of course is still structually the exact same ship and is probably more sturdily built than the Queen Mary 2 and more to the point is still in commission?

 

On checking these Atlantic crossings\cruises we are looking at a minmum of sometimes 50% discounts which I fear does not look good for the Titanic to compete against? (query) Cruiseliner fan has posted an excellent article querying the solvency of the proposed owner of this new ship although they have gone to great lengths in getting this project off the ground. (although not in the water)

[Austcruiser84]

As usual you make excellent points and yes some of the older liners were very small, and we are talking about displacing just over 20,000 tons.

 

The bows of a ship certainly make a ship a ship :) (humour) but putting the humour to one side I hope the Titanic has the cutting bows of her predecessor but as you so rightly suggest, in the very worse of conditions passengers are going to be in for a rude awakening on a ship of her size in adverse conditions.

 

I go along with all that you say but what are your thoughts regarding Marco Polo? She was built as an ocean going liner and of course is still structually the exact same ship and is probably more sturdily built than the Queen Mary 2 and more to the point is still in commission?

 

On checking these Atlantic crossings\cruises we are looking at a minmum of sometimes 50% discounts which I fear does not look good for the Titanic to compete against? (query) Cruiseliner fan has posted an excellent article querying the solvency of the proposed owner of this new ship although they have gone to great lengths in getting this project off the ground. (although not in the water)

 

The Marco Polo was originally built as the Alexandr Pushkin for the Baltic line. She was meant to sail Leningrad to Montreal and then cruise in between.

 

For this reason, it is reasonable to call her a liner. In fact, she was a Transatlantic liner.

[david,Mississauga]

Glojo,

 

I think some posters think an ocean liner only traverses the Atlantic. While history has always favoured the great Transatlantic liners, most ships built for the lines were smaller liners that plied the trade and passenger routes from Europe to Canada, South America, Africa, Australia, India and the Orient.

 

...

 

Most of the Union-Castle ships between Southampton and South Africa never did cruises at all. We sailed twice on the lovely RMS Windsor Castle, including its last voyage, and that ship never deviated from its liner voyages. When sold, it became a private hotel ship in Saudi Arabia and was never used for a public voyage again. The other U-C ship we sailed on was the SA Vaal, originally the Transvaal Castle. At the time technically it was a South African ship, but still controlled by U-C in London.

 

Our only experience on P&O was on liners. We had a partial voyage on an Australia-UK voyage on the first Oriana. In the 1980s and 90s we had three cruises on the Canberra, which had not done regular liner voyages since about 1974. In fact, until our QE cruise three months ago we had never been on a ship that was not originally a liner.

[glojo]

Most of the Union-Castle ships between Southampton and South Africa never did cruises at all. We sailed twice on the lovely RMS Windsor Castle, including its last voyage, and that ship never deviated from its liner voyages. When sold, it became a private hotel ship in Saudi Arabia and was never used for a public voyage again. The other U-C ship we sailed on was the SA Vaal, originally the Transvaal Castle. At the time technically it was a South African ship, but still controlled by U-C in London.

 

Our only experience on P&O was on liners. We had a partial voyage on an Australia-UK voyage on the first Oriana. In the 1980s and 90s we had three cruises on the Canberra, which had not done regular liner voyages since about 1974. In fact, until our QE cruise three months ago we had never been on a ship that was not originally a liner.

What really nice memories and by todays standards those ships were quite small all but 200 feet shorter than Queen Victoria and whilst slightly slower I believe only one of the Castle line had stabilisers but I stand to be corrected. I love the lines of those old ships but Titanic just looks way too old and datedfor my very own personal tastes.

 

I consider myself exceedingly lucky to have seen all these older liners plying their trade and what a beautiful sight they were as they would sail by us looking so serene as we were at the mercy of seas that appeared moderately calm to those aboard these very nice looking ships. (Not as nice as my favourite liners the old Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth but still very, very nice) :)

 

Not sure about the old Oriana as she looked more like a cruise ship :) ;)

 

Is Titanic going to have to somehow develop a market where folks do not want the luxuries that a modern ship brings to the table and yet still charge top dollar for theprivilegee?

 

Whilst we might be poo hooing this concept, it is still coming on a'pace and a model has now been tested in Germany

 

click

[PS Caledonia]

But the speed on the crossing was just the point.

 

Now it is little different than a leg of a cruise.

 

David.

 

True, but sad. It's pure nostalgia to think of those fast crossings today, the market has changed, but thank heavens for QM2, better than nothing at all.

 

In the meantime, I found this Youtube clip from a particularly stormy Atlantic crossing in the late 1980's. If ever there was an advert of the need for a stronger built hull, this is it... :)

 

[Cruise Liner Fan]

True, but sad. It's pure nostalgia to think of those fast crossings today, the market has changed, but thank heavens for QM2, better than nothing at all.

 

In the meantime, I found this Youtube clip from a particularly stormy Atlantic crossing in the late 1980's. If ever there was an advert of the need for a stronger built hull, this is it... :)

 

Thanks for the link of the Youtube video of the QE2 crossing in the late 1980s. It was kind of scary to see in the video the baby grand piano aboard the QE2 that was tied to a wall. I also found this video of the Queen Victoria in rough seas

Though in the Queen Victoria video it did not look like the seas were as bad as in the QE2 video. Regards,Jerry

[Cruise Liner Fan]

Here is another Youtube video filmed from the deck of the Queen Victoria. It showed the Queen Elizabeth sailing through very rough seas. Both the Queen Elizabeth and the Queen Victoria were doing a tandem transatlantic crossing in January 2011.

Regards,Jerry

[Austcruiser84]

Is Titanic going to have to somehow develop a market where folks do not want the luxuries that a modern ship brings to the table and yet still charge top dollar for theprivilegee?

 

Whilst we might be poo hooing this concept, it is still coming on a'pace and a model has now been tested in Germany

 

click

 

No upgrades to the gym or pool? I've found another sticking point for some cruisers.

 

...

 

Since it also appears that Titanic II will only have 4 elevators (3 in 1st class and 1 in 2nd class) I doubt many older passengers will feel confident sailing - especially in 3rd class.

 

Not that 3rd class really need elevators, especially after 10pm when the stairway gates to the poop deck and fore deck promenade areas were locked. I'm sure passengers will love the enforced period bed time experience! The Blue Star line could market it as 'deluxe turn down service' for steerage passengers wishing to spend a little more than the regular swill - a chocolate coated raisin on the pillow awaits you while our stewards drag you back to your 6 sleeper inside cabin and lock you in for the night.'

 

No televisions either, not even in 1st class apparently. I guess Palmer is hoping people will just enjoy looking at the period furniture (well, if you are in 1st class - you could just stare at the white walls in steerage, or not, when the lights are switched off for you).

 

Alas, no grand theatre either. I suppose buckets of rotting fruit could be left aft on A deck promenade for 1st class passengers to hurl at the steerage passengers below. Since there is to be no modern gym equipment, I guess dodging the fruit hurling can be the daily exercise class for steerage passengers...for a small fee (plus 15% gratuity), to be added to your shipboard account.

 

And what woman wouldn't love to dress in period costume! Rigid corsets with whale bone sides that dig into their bodies. It's not so bad since they won't need to get out of them in a hurry, what with the pool being on F deck and it being so small as to not warrant the effort. And since there are no double beds or queen sized beds (if we are going by the original), then it should be safe to say the corsets can just stay on for the entire crossing. Might be easier that way!

 

They can take tea in the lounge ('tea, Trudy') and complain about there being no clotted cream. And since we're into the period lifestyle, they can amuse themselves by speaking condescendingly to the crew and being snide to one another.

 

They might also choose to book a potentially popular behind the scenes tour called 'How the other half live tour'. This would be exclusive to 1st class passengers and include tours of the steerage accommodations and the crew quarters. Full sanitising set up available prior to returning to 1st class areas. And for one lucky steerage passenger each voyage, a lottery will be drawn allowing that single person to dine one evening in 1st class. However, they must find a generous benefactor who will provide appropriate dinner wear and they will spend the evening at a large table being subjected to condescension and ridicule. After this, they will be escorted back to their cabin.

 

Meanwhile, the men can all get addicted to smoking in their lounge at the aft of A deck, congratulating themselves on being 'masters of the universe' and trying to get satellite links on their tablets and smart phones to catch the big game. For the intellectual gentleman, guest lecturers could speak on a range of appropriate topics such as 'How to break the back of your unionised workforce', 'Buying your way into politics (and how to bribe your local Congressman)', and 'A history of the Republican Party and the Tories' (three part lecture).

 

Of course, essential communication with the outside world can be messaged and received through on the wireless. I'm sure the radio room guys will have plenty of time for that. Being Chinese built, one need not worry about iceberg warnings.

 

Perhaps another opportunity to make money for the line can be found through the new fangled wireless. They could call it Blue Star Luggage - 'Have your suitcases, steamer trunks and portable safe transported with the utmost care from the ship's hold to your waiting vintage Rolls Royce or private train with luxurious Pullman Palace carriages. Large items in the hold, such as automobiles, will have their windows wiped down prior to disembarkation.'

 

For steerage passengers wishing to really immerse themselves in the period, an optional 'Ellis Island Immigration Disembarkation Experience' can be arranged, whereby they are taken off ship by ferry, sent to a special facility and interrogated by US customs officials even more than usual. Full cavity search, bags opened and medical examination all included (I know some of you are thinking how is this different to what people already go through at airports).

 

Just so the 1st class passengers don't feel left out, the line could also offer a special, extra disembarkation package should the ship need to be evacuated due to a giant iceberg or such. The 'Lifeboats at Sea' package would include priority lifeboat boarding and additional leg room by only taking 20 passengers in a lifeboat built for 64. Champagne and caviar would be served by a white gloved waiter. Plush life jackets are also available, but for an additional, nominal fee. Passengers travelling in the suites on decks B and C automatically get the plush jackets. This package also ensures that should your lifeboat be called back to the ship to pick up more passengers that it will not do so.

 

:)

[Cruise Liner Fan]

No upgrades to the gym or pool? I've found another sticking point for some cruisers.

 

...

 

Since it also appears that Titanic II will only have 4 elevators (3 in 1st class and 1 in 2nd class) I doubt many older passengers will feel confident sailing - especially in 3rd class.

 

Not that 3rd class really need elevators, especially after 10pm when the stairway gates to the poop deck and fore deck promenade areas were locked. I'm sure passengers will love the enforced period bed time experience! The Blue Star line could market it as 'deluxe turn down service' for steerage passengers wishing to spend a little more than the regular swill - a chocolate coated raisin on the pillow awaits you while our stewards drag you back to your 6 sleeper inside cabin and lock you in for the night.'

 

No televisions either, not even in 1st class apparently. I guess Palmer is hoping people will just enjoy looking at the period furniture (well, if you are in 1st class - you could just stare at the white walls in steerage, or not, when the lights are switched off for you).

 

Alas, no grand theatre either. I suppose buckets of rotting fruit could be left aft on A deck promenade for 1st class passengers to hurl at the steerage passengers below. Since there is to be no modern gym equipment, I guess dodging the fruit hurling can be the daily exercise class for steerage passengers...for a small fee (plus 15% gratuity), to be added to your shipboard account.

 

And what woman wouldn't love to dress in period costume! Rigid corsets with whale bone sides that dig into their bodies. It's not so bad since they won't need to get out of them in a hurry, what with the pool being on F deck and it being so small as to not warrant the effort. And since there are no double beds or queen sized beds (if we are going by the original), then it should be safe to say the corsets can just stay on for the entire crossing. Might be easier that way!

 

They can take tea in the lounge ('tea, Trudy') and complain about there being no clotted cream. And since we're into the period lifestyle, they can amuse themselves by speaking condescendingly to the crew and being snide to one another.

 

They might also choose to book a potentially popular behind the scenes tour called 'How the other half live tour'. This would be exclusive to 1st class passengers and include tours of the steerage accommodations and the crew quarters. Full sanitising set up available prior to returning to 1st class areas. And for one lucky steerage passenger each voyage, a lottery will be drawn allowing that single person to dine one evening in 1st class. However, they must find a generous benefactor who will provide appropriate dinner wear and they will spend the evening at a large table being subjected to condescension and ridicule. After this, they will be escorted back to their cabin.

 

Meanwhile, the men can all get addicted to smoking in their lounge at the aft of A deck, congratulating themselves on being 'masters of the universe' and trying to get satellite links on their tablets and smart phones to catch the big game. For the intellectual gentleman, guest lecturers could speak on a range of appropriate topics such as 'How to break the back of your unionised workforce', 'Buying your way into politics (and how to bribe your local Congressman)', and 'A history of the Republican Party and the Tories' (three part lecture).

 

Of course, essential communication with the outside world can be messaged and received through on the wireless. I'm sure the radio room guys will have plenty of time for that. Being Chinese built, one need not worry about iceberg warnings.

 

Perhaps another opportunity to make money for the line can be found through the new fangled wireless. They could call it Blue Star Luggage - 'Have your suitcases, steamer trunks and portable safe transported with the utmost care from the ship's hold to your waiting vintage Rolls Royce or private train with luxurious Pullman Palace carriages. Large items in the hold, such as automobiles, will have their windows wiped down prior to disembarkation.'

 

For steerage passengers wishing to really immerse themselves in the period, an optional 'Ellis Island Immigration Disembarkation Experience' can be arranged, whereby they are taken off ship by ferry, sent to a special facility and interrogated by US customs officials even more than usual. Full cavity search, bags opened and medical examination all included (I know some of you are thinking how is this different to what people already go through at airports).

 

Just so the 1st class passengers don't feel left out, the line could also offer a special, extra disembarkation package should the ship need to be evacuated due to a giant iceberg or such. The 'Lifeboats at Sea' package would include priority lifeboat boarding and additional leg room by only taking 20 passengers in a lifeboat built for 64. Champagne and caviar would be served by a white gloved waiter. Plush life jackets are also available, but for an additional, nominal fee. Passengers travelling in the suites on decks B and C automatically get the plush jackets. This package also ensures that should your lifeboat be called back to the ship to pick up more passengers that it will not do so.

 

:)

I wonder if there will be a Host and Hostess that look like Jack and Rose who then can take the passengers on a grand tour of Titanic II that includes the cargo hold where the early 20th Century car is located and in that same car Jack and Rose did their hot and steamy sexy love thing :eek: Regards,Jerry Edited September 20, 2013 by Cruise Liner Fan

[balf]

24 knot crossings - that was a normal speed for the Lusitania and Mauretania. Only a handful of ocean liners ever clocked a higher speed on the Atlantic.

 

But this speed would have been regarded as pretty disapointing not so many years ago.

 

The opportunity to sail on a classic liner at near full chat was the attraction to me the first time I did the "crossing". I still see little difference between the trip as now run and a port to port on any ordinary cruise, though I realise the reason for the change.

 

David.

[pepperrn]

No upgrades to the gym or pool? I've found another sticking point for some cruisers. Since it also appears that Titanic II will only have 4 elevators (3 in 1st class and 1 in 2nd class) I doubt many older passengers will feel confident sailing - especially in 3rd class. Not that 3rd class really need elevators, especially after 10pm when the stairway gates to the poop deck and fore deck promenade areas were locked. I'm sure passengers will love the enforced period bed time experience! The Blue Star line could market it as 'deluxe turn down service' for steerage passengers wishing to spend a little more than the regular swill - a chocolate coated raisin on the pillow awaits you while our stewards drag you back to your 6 sleeper inside cabin and lock you in for the night.' No televisions either, not even in 1st class apparently. I guess Palmer is hoping people will just enjoy looking at the period furniture (well, if you are in 1st class - you could just stare at the white walls in steerage, or not, when the lights are switched off for you). Alas, no grand theatre either. I suppose buckets of rotting fruit could be left aft on A deck promenade for 1st class passengers to hurl at the steerage passengers below. Since there is to be no modern gym equipment, I guess dodging the fruit hurling can be the daily exercise class for steerage passengers...for a small fee (plus 15% gratuity), to be added to your shipboard account. And what woman wouldn't love to dress in period costume! Rigid corsets with whale bone sides that dig into their bodies. It's not so bad since they won't need to get out of them in a hurry, what with the pool being on F deck and it being so small as to not warrant the effort. And since there are no double beds or queen sized beds (if we are going by the original), then it should be safe to say the corsets can just stay on for the entire crossing. Might be easier that way! They can take tea in the lounge ('tea, Trudy') and complain about there being no clotted cream. And since we're into the period lifestyle, they can amuse themselves by speaking condescendingly to the crew and being snide to one another. They might also choose to book a potentially popular behind the scenes tour called 'How the other half live tour'. This would be exclusive to 1st class passengers and include tours of the steerage accommodations and the crew quarters. Full sanitising set up available prior to returning to 1st class areas. And for one lucky steerage passenger each voyage, a lottery will be drawn allowing that single person to dine one evening in 1st class. However, they must find a generous benefactor who will provide appropriate dinner wear and they will spend the evening at a large table being subjected to condescension and ridicule. After this, they will be escorted back to their cabin. Meanwhile, the men can all get addicted to smoking in their lounge at the aft of A deck, congratulating themselves on being 'masters of the universe' and trying to get satellite links on their tablets and smart phones to catch the big game. For the intellectual gentleman, guest lecturers could speak on a range of appropriate topics such as 'How to break the back of your unionised workforce', 'Buying your way into politics (and how to bribe your local Congressman)', and 'A history of the Republican Party and the Tories' (three part lecture). Of course, essential communication with the outside world can be messaged and received through on the wireless. I'm sure the radio room guys will have plenty of time for that. Being Chinese built, one need not worry about iceberg warnings. Perhaps another opportunity to make money for the line can be found through the new fangled wireless. They could call it Blue Star Luggage - 'Have your suitcases, steamer trunks and portable safe transported with the utmost care from the ship's hold to your waiting vintage Rolls Royce or private train with luxurious Pullman Palace carriages. Large items in the hold, such as automobiles, will have their windows wiped down prior to disembarkation.' For steerage passengers wishing to really immerse themselves in the period, an optional 'Ellis Island Immigration Disembarkation Experience' can be arranged, whereby they are taken off ship by ferry, sent to a special facility and interrogated by US customs officials even more than usual. Full cavity search, bags opened and medical examination all included (I know some of you are thinking how is this different to what people already go through at airports). Just so the 1st class passengers don't feel left out, the line could also offer a special, extra disembarkation package should the ship need to be evacuated due to a giant iceberg or such. The 'Lifeboats at Sea' package would include priority lifeboat boarding and additional leg room by only taking 20 passengers in a lifeboat built for 64. Champagne and caviar would be served by a white gloved waiter. Plush life jackets are also available, but for an additional, nominal fee. Passengers travelling in the suites on decks B and C automatically get the plush jackets. This package also ensures that should your lifeboat be called back to the ship to pick up more passengers that it will not do so.

Brilliant Austcruiser84 :) , simply brilliant :) :) .

Thank you for writing and sharing.

Best wishes,