Effects of partial charters on regular cruisers

[njhorseman]

To me this has NOTHING to do with race or religion it has EVERYTHING to do with kids running amuck without parental supervision. I do not go to Disney for the same reason.

 

The post I was addressing had everything to do with race and religion, and made no mention of children running amok.

[WaldosPepper]

I think you need a history lesson about what can happen when people accept talk about a particular group...and I'm not limiting it to any one group...it could be a race, nationality, religion, lifestyle choice, you name it...being SO much different in their appearance, practices and beliefs than "we" are. When you accept that dialogue you open yourself up to accepting something far worse.

 

I'm pretty sure Stephen needs no lessons with regard to "what can happen when people accept talk about a particular group...".

 

It's abundantly clear that you are hurt by the words chosen in a specific post. Although I can understand your perspective, I firmly believe that poster did not intend any ill-will, nor were they projecting any prejudice in that post. Unfortunately we all have very different styles of writing, and what one person reads one way, another reads entirely differently. I don't think anyone who has responded on this thread has displayed any particular prejudices other than toward "groups in general." in so much as they can cause disruptions and change the vibe of a cruise.

;)

[Casino Comp Chick]

I'm pretty sure Stephen needs no lessons with regard to "what can happen when people accept talk about a particular group...".

 

It's abundantly clear that you are hurt by the words chosen in a specific post. Although I can understand your perspective, I firmly believe that poster did not intend any ill-will, nor were they projecting any prejudice in that post. Unfortunately we all have very different styles of writing, and what one person reads one way, another reads entirely differently. I don't think anyone who has responded on this thread has displayed any particular prejudices other than toward "groups in general." in so much as they can cause disruptions and change the vibe of a cruise.

;)

 

Exactly, thank you.

[dwjoe]

To me this has NOTHING to do with race or religion it has EVERYTHING to do with kids running amuck without parental supervision. I do not go to Disney for the same reason.

 

Kosherica <> Children

Kosherica = Dedicated Dining Space

Yeshiva Week = Children

[sjbdtz]

I'm pretty sure Stephen needs no lessons with regard to "what can happen when people accept talk about a particular group...".

 

It's abundantly clear that you are hurt by the words chosen in a specific post. Although I can understand your perspective, I firmly believe that poster did not intend any ill-will, nor were they projecting any prejudice in that post. Unfortunately we all have very different styles of writing, and what one person reads one way, another reads entirely differently. I don't think anyone who has responded on this thread has displayed any particular prejudices other than toward "groups in general." in so much as they can cause disruptions and change the vibe of a cruise.

;)

 

Exactly, thank you.

 

I concur. Well said.

 

 

 

But, to clarify what I thought that poster meant was "they" (the people eating in the small dining room between 5 - 8 p.m.) vs. "us" (the people not allowed to eat in the small dining room between 5 - 8 p.m.

 

Since many Jewish people (including my 2 best friends) don't keep Kosher, differentiating between kosher & 'us' is not the same as differentiating between "Jewish" and "us" which is what I THINK you're upset about.

 

So perhaps I'm mistaken here, but not only was the post NOT about Jewish, NOR was it about Kosher....it was about the group in the small dining room at a particular time.

 

That's why I defended the post.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[WaldosPepper]

I concur. Well said.

 

...

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

Thank you.

 

:)

[njhorseman]

I'm pretty sure Stephen needs no lessons with regard to "what can happen when people accept talk about a particular group...".

 

It's abundantly clear that you are hurt by the words chosen in a specific post. Although I can understand your perspective, I firmly believe that poster did not intend any ill-will, nor were they projecting any prejudice in that post. Unfortunately we all have very different styles of writing, and what one person reads one way, another reads entirely differently. I don't think anyone who has responded on this thread has displayed any particular prejudices other than toward "groups in general." in so much as they can cause disruptions and change the vibe of a cruise.

;)

 

I concur. Well said.

 

I'm glad everyone is so sure about what the poster intended. The only way to settle that is with a response from that poster.

 

I'd like to believe the poster meant no harm. Accepting that premise however in no way absolves the poster from responsibility for having made use of at the least a very insensitive and poor choice of words.

[WaldosPepper]

I'm glad everyone is so sure about what the poster intended. The only way to settle that is with a response from that poster.

 

I'd like to believe the poster meant no harm. Accepting that premise however in no way absolves the poster from responsibility for having made use of at the least a very insensitive and poor choice of words.

 

Let he among us who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

I believe each and every one of us who posts here on CC has, at least once, made the very regrettable mistake of choosing our words poorly. ;)

[njhorseman]

Let he among us who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

I believe each and every one of us who posts here on CC has, at least once, made the very regrettable mistake of choosing our words poorly. ;)

 

Yes, and when someone points that out to me, if I agree I have chosen my words poorly I apologize for it.

 

If I say something that offends you, let me know. I usually choose my words very carefully. If they're offensive I probably intended them to be offensive. ;)

[OCruisers]

Let he among us who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

I believe each and every one of us who posts here on CC has, at least once, made the very regrettable mistake of choosing our words poorly. ;)

 

You're so right!

:o I certainly have ... and I always try to be nice to everyone.

 

LuLu

~~~~

[Cruzface]

Please read post #24 in this thread. I don't have to google anything.

 

The thing is, that kosher meal preparation IS VERY different from how non-kosher meals are prepared. Stop being so sensitive.

[sonarboy]

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

 

I hear your concern about dedicated spaces and the request for disclosure, not just for Kosherica, but for all group cruises. One idea would be a thread for group cruises on the NCL board for people to log information. Then, anyone could search it and see if any group cruises are booked on their sailing. There is one on the HAL board:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1803579

 

That sounds like a good idea to me. And you are welcome.

[njhorseman]

The thing is, that kosher meal preparation IS VERY different from how non-kosher meals are prepared. Stop being so sensitive.

 

You totally missed my point. I don't need anyone to tell me about kosher meal preparation.

[Cruzface]

You totally missed my point. I don't need anyone to tell me about kosher meal preparation.

 

Yeah I know. You were upset about the "SO" different comment. But kosher meal preparation is SO different and saying that is not racist or anti-semetic. You need to relax. May I suggest a cruise?

[njhorseman]

Yeah I know. You were upset about the "SO" different comment. But kosher meal preparation is SO different and saying that is not racist or anti-semetic. You need to relax. May I suggest a cruise?

 

If you're interested, read some of my more recent posts that explain my stance on this issue. It has nothing to do with a need to relax.

[terrydtx]

Some thing as bad or maybe worse than charter groups are the so called fine art dealers who sell over priced and near worthless art at phony art auctions on the ship. Our second HAL cruise was a 10 day Southern Caribbean cruise with 4 days at sea. The art people took over the Crows Nest lounge on the 9th deck for their art display and sales which kept any other passengers from having access to my favorite place on sea days. HAL closed the CN for the whole cruise and many like me complained to the Hotel manager and were told they could do nothing as they had a contract with the Fine Art company for use of the space. :mad:

[OCruisers]

:o VERY Sorry! Hit the wrong button.

 

LuLu

~~~~

[paulav99]

I'm the one that posted prior about the people on our cruise with Kosherica seeming entitled, and they did!

 

Quite a few times we'd be walking down a hall and a group of the adults were walking the other way. They never once moved to their side to get by. They would barge through us each time.

 

At the casino they would keep bugging us a table if they wanted to sit down...asking if we were done yet.

 

They participated in an adult game show....then never really participated. (it was the newleywed game, and every question they asked the people acted offended and said "I'm not answering that")

[NYcruzzer]

Orthodox Jews tend to have large families and to travel as families. I have not found their children to be any more or less rambunctious than other children. However, I think it is likely that a group of, say, 100 adults, traveling with 200-300 children necessarily would be perceived differently from a similar group of adults traveling with 100 or so children.

 

I was on the 1/18 sailing. Years ago when my DD was younger we always cruised during holiday breaks and Summers. On those sailings we noticed a fair share of drunk and obnoxious kids. Not this sailing, even the older kids and teens were well behaved. As I was not part of any of these groups it saddened me when a few passangers complained to me about these large groups "taking over" the ship. I did say that "everyone deserves to have a great vacation". Like I said in an earlier post, I think most passanger were more annoyed with the amount of kids onboard, rather then who the groups were.

[ghadler]

We are soooo thankful that we were warned about the Yeshiva week charter groups. Iimmie, we are so thankful that you saved us from what most likely would have been a disappointing cruise. We have been there and done that vacation with an overabundance of children, unruly or otherwise. Never thought that that week in January children would be out of school. We did President's week one year and had a bad cruise. Why should we purposely want to cruise at that time! Duh!! Oh, and I never got the impression that Iimmie was anti any religion. Just very smart!!!! Thanks, Iimmie!!!!

[Casino Comp Chick]

We are soooo thankful that we were warned about the Yeshiva week charter groups. Iimmie, we are so thankful that you saved us from what most likely would have been a disappointing cruise. We have been there and done that vacation with an overabundance of children, unruly or otherwise. Never thought that that week in January children would be out of school. We did President's week one year and had a bad cruise. Why should we purposely want to cruise at that time! Duh!! Oh, and I never got the impression that Iimmie was anti any religion. Just very smart!!!! Thanks, Iimmie!!!!

 

Thank you ghadler, I am glad a few people who actually followed the original roll call saw my true intentions instead of pawning off their own prejudices on me as they did here today. Never once did I mention any religion. That is a non issue for me. Sad that for the 1st time since I have been on CC i actually put people on ignore. This site is meant for the exchange of information and that is all I did. Thanks again and I look forward to meeting you next year.

[AllBoys2002]

I don't have exact dates yet for next year. My experience is that Yeshiva week is the last complete week in January. Usually that's the week after MLK week, but occasionally it falls during MLK week like this year.

 

If Yeshiva week dates match the itinerary, you will see a spike in the number of children cruising from from the NYC area and South Florida, and to a lesser extent other ports.

 

Thank you so much for this answer...but one more question..by complete week do you mean mon-fri?

 

I truly dont care who cruises when and where, for me it has nothing to do with race religion or what have you.

 

That being said...this upcoming cruise is to be a special retirement cruise for my hubby and with 20+ years of busting his hump to provide for his family I want nothing more than a nice peacefully quiet cruise for him to enjoy. Thinking there might be 800ish kids onboard definitely changes the scenario. But alas it is what it is and we are still going.

 

We will enjoy this trip as we have all our previous sailings.....

[Crusin6]

I'm the one that posted prior about the people on our cruise with Kosherica seeming entitled, and they did!

 

Quite a few times we'd be walking down a hall and a group of the adults were walking the other way. They never once moved to their side to get by. They would barge through us each time.

 

At the casino they would keep bugging us a table if they wanted to sit down...asking if we were done yet.

 

They participated in an adult game show....then never really participated. (it was the newleywed game, and every question they asked the people acted offended and said "I'm not answering that")

the way I see it is this..

 

on CC everyone seems to think it is OK to talk about how unruly kids on cruises are and everyone is OK with it......btw..I happen to think kids belong on cruises and parents should travel as much as possible with their kids.

 

on CC everyone seems to think it is OK to ask when college kids will cruise and when spring break is so that they can avoid those "types"...btw, college kids don't bother me as I have 2 of my own and I am a college professor, so I understand them.

 

on CC everyone seems to think that it is OK to restrict smokers on ships...btw, I happen to agree because that particular habit hurts my health..that is a known fact..but hey, if you want to smoke go ahead, I don't care for balconies anyway.

 

so, the way I see it, if it is OK ask about those groups and type of cruiser demographic...it is OK to ask about Kosherica and wether or not the ship is taken over by those that cruise during what I have just come to know as Yeshiva Week.

 

If you can ask or want to avoid one type of group of cruiser, you certainly have the right to avoid any type of group or cruiser you choose. We are still a country that values free will....but I doubt that will last long.

 

Now, off to my 20oz soda!LOL

[Crusin6]

I'm the one that posted prior about the people on our cruise with Kosherica seeming entitled, and they did!

 

Quite a few times we'd be walking down a hall and a group of the adults were walking the other way. They never once moved to their side to get by. They would barge through us each time.

 

At the casino they would keep bugging us a table if they wanted to sit down...asking if we were done yet.

 

They participated in an adult game show....then never really participated. (it was the newleywed game, and every question they asked the people acted offended and said "I'm not answering that")

 

I wish someone would do to me what you describe they did to you.

 

why? well, I am a pacifist but I can tell you this...I would not be pushed aside in the hallway nor would I be told to move in the Casino or game show...how would I do it?

 

I would say, no I am not getting up so you should sit elsewhere..period. and i would say it so confidently that they would get the message

 

and

 

If someone pushed me aside while walking down a narrow ship hallway,

I would push right back..why? because I would never ever let anyone touch me or push me....that is just common sense.....and yes, I am a pacifist and do not believe in violence.....but no way are you going to take advantage of me because if I let you push me..I could fall..get hurt or whatever...and I won't let that happen to myself.. and when I saw you coming the next time, I would loudly tell my family that they should move to the right to let you walk by...because that is what intelligent people do...and I would say that as well.

[spunkyhungry]

Yeah I know. You were upset about the "SO" different comment. But kosher meal preparation is SO different and saying that is not racist or anti-semetic. You need to relax. May I suggest a cruise?

 

As a similar example, gluten free food is prepared very differently than typical food. I eat gluten free and would not be any way offended if someone said it was prepared "SO" differently. It is!

 

Also, I am Jewish and was not offended by the "SO." Kosher food IS prepared differently.