Tipping - New Policy

[varoo]

It is actually a hotel service charge.

 

That is how Holland America lists it on the passenger accounts each day:

 

Hotel Service Charge

 

 

To most of us who have cruised on other lines, it doesn't really matter what they call it.

 

..... a rose by any other name .........

[Merion_Mom]

It is actually a hotel service charge.

 

That is how Holland America lists it on the passenger accounts each day:

 

Hotel Service Charge

 

 

To most of us who have cruised on other lines, it doesn't really matter what they call it.

 

..... a rose by any other name .........

 

.............would smell as sweet.

 

:)

[mexicansun]

I can't help but comment...I"m usually a lurker.

Tips/gratuities are very much part of the cruise experience...its not the same as going for a local restaurant meal. Cruise staff will usually bend over backwards to make your holiday special.

 

Companies worldwide offer staff benefits, bonuses and commission based on whatever job they do and get this for when they do a good job.

 

Hospitality jobs permit tips...hospitality employees are serving the general public first hand.

 

Yes, usually you would only tip what you feel is deserved.

But, on a cruise, it would be fair to say that most members of staff will go above and beyond...so why should one member of staff get more than another, just because some people are too tight to tip.

By paying tips in this manner, this will go to combat this. If in the event of bad service, then these tips can be removed.

 

I do a lot of travelling. Some hotels offer butler services and charge additional for this. Then tips can be added on top. Cruise companies provide staff basic pay, as with any company. They are waiters not lawyers or accountants. They don't get massive bonuses or high pay. But these staff work long hours and do so with a smile on their face.

 

If your not happy with a service you complain. Also remember that when the travel agent booking your holiday is getting commission on the value of your holiday...if your not happy with service complain/don't book...go somewhere else.

[stupendousman8]

So you opt for My Time Dining and pay service charge /Tips/Gratuities up front. You experience bad service on your cruise either in dining areas or in cabin or else where(very unlikely) what would you do?

 

If it's me, I'd contact customer service and request a refund of gratuities commensurate with the poor service. Let's say it's the wait staff. Figure out how much your standard tip for them should be, then request a reduction by maybe 5 percent.

 

Not so much so you can save maybe 5 bucks, but so that management understands that there was a problem and word gets around that the "mandatory" tips aren't likely legally "mandatory" if they want to stay out of legal trouble. If they refuse and THAT gets around, then it's likely they'll face a suit similar to what Atlantis did. It was found that much of the money guests paid for the mandatory "housekeeping" tips didn't actually even get to the housekeeping staff. IMAGINE THAT!

Edited March 16, 2013 by stupendousman8

[stupendousman8]

The tips don't really have anything to do with the quality of service.

 

Then what exactly are tips supposed to be for?

[steveru621]

Restating an argument in a debate, when the opposition cannot present a credible rebuttal is a perfectly acceptable tactic.

 

Someone else had posted a link previously showing that the two countries had laws that were pretty much the same. Is it your "rebuttal" that you know that the laws are different enough to warrant the Bahamas to allow what other countries legally refer to as "service fees" but insist that the are absolutely non-refundable gratuities?

 

As well, it's my understanding that Atlantis just settled a class action lawsuit from a law firm in Florida in regards to their forcing service fees on their clients, but falsely claiming them as gratuities.

 

http://www.tribune242.com/news/2012/jul/11/atlantis-settles-gratuity-lawsuit/

 

Your opinion. My mistake in believing there couldn't possibly be a frivolous lawsuit over a phrase. I also should realize I am not a legal expert, but I had no idea you were, since no proof was provided beyond your opinion they were similar. But now we agree! You have provided the example of what you were posting. That was my point, regarding evidence of what your thoughts were.

 

Unfortunately my other point was made. Atlantis basically admitted no wrong doing and the attorneys' got their payday. The US consumer ended up with nothing! Even worse than the worthless $5 coupon. Seems to me to be a huge waste of resources.

[stupendousman8]

Fortunately for some, the Bahamian law is similar to US, in that a gratuity is "voluntary", but the choice can be offered as an "opt-out" (at least while the guest is "protected" by it's laws - what you did before you boarded isn't a concern). However, to challenge it requires going to the Bahamas, which isn't usually practical for anyone but Bahama citizens.

 

3dog,

 

I believe you are correct, but can't seem to find a relevant citation to be able to check for sure. Is there somewhere online where this can be verified?

 

THANKS!

[stupendousman8]

Your opinion. My mistake in believing there couldn't possibly be a frivolous lawsuit over a phrase.

 

If I ask you if you'd like some punch while holding a fruit beverage in my hand, and you consent, then I punch in the nose - might you seek legal recompense for the misuse of a phrase?

 

I also should realize I am not a legal expert, but I had no idea you were, since no proof was provided beyond your opinion they were similar.

 

Working on it. The polite way to reply to a claim that you aren't sure about is simply to ask for a citation - not to just claim it's someone's opinion.

 

Unfortunately my other point was made. Atlantis basically admitted no wrong doing and the attorneys' got their payday. The US consumer ended up with nothing! Even worse than the worthless $5 coupon. Seems to me to be a huge waste of resources.

 

For Atlantis, yes. It cost them a lot of money. If they were not engaged in a legal "gray area" they likely would have never settled. It's a lot easier and cheaper to settle when you risk losing a lot more money because you actually have done something wrong.

 

Also remember that while the ship is required to follow Bahamian law, RC markets it's cruises from the United States to United States citizens and the mandatory tips required for MTD are put in place before you ever get on the ship. You aren't paying THE SHIP, you are paying the RC corporation who is required to have a business license in the United States, which sails out of the United States and must follow United State law in doing so. United State law says you can't call a mandatory service fee that you can not opt out of a "gratuity." Doesn't matter where the ship is if you are paying in advance. That's why it's not likely that you couldn't get tips accrued during poor service refunded.

 

I hope I don't have to try because I get great service. But if I don't get good service, I will demand some sort of partial refund. And I'm not the picky type. As long as my very, very basic needs are met (not waiting 20 minutes for a beverage refill, etc.) I'm willing to pay on top of the mandatory fees. I'm just not going to be scammed.

Edited March 16, 2013 by stupendousman8

[steveru621]

If I ask you if you'd like some punch while holding a fruit beverage in my hand, and you consent, then I punch in the nose - might you seek legal recompense for the misuse of a phrase?

 

Working on it. The polite way to reply to a claim that you aren't sure about is simply to ask for a citation - not to just claim it's someone's opinion.

 

For Atlantis, yes. It cost them a lot of money. If they were not engaged in a legal "gray area" they likely would have never settled. It's a lot easier and cheaper to settle when you risk losing a lot more money because you actually have done something wrong.

 

Also remember that while the ship is required to follow Bahamian law, RC markets it's cruises from the United States to United States citizens and the mandatory tips required for MTD are put in place before you ever get on the ship. You aren't paying THE SHIP, you are paying the RC corporation who is required to have a business license in the United States, which sails out of the United States and must follow United State law in doing so. United State law says you can't call a mandatory service fee that you can not opt out of a "gratuity." Doesn't matter where the ship is if you are paying in advance. That's why it's not likely that you couldn't get tips accrued during poor service refunded.

 

I hope I don't have to try because I get great service. But if I don't get good service, I will demand some sort of partial refund. And I'm not the picky type. As long as my very, very basic needs are met (not waiting 20 minutes for a beverage refill, etc.) I'm willing to pay on top of the mandatory fees. I'm just not going to be scammed.

 

I give up, I'm an impolite lunatic.

 

Corporations settle because they fear bleeding heart liberal juries that don't really care about anything except what they feel is 'fair'. I don't really care WHY Atlantis settled, but they didn't ultimately pay the $450,000 handed over to the attorneys. Customers and shareholders paid the price for that ridiculous lawsuit. In the end, the practice continued under a different phrase, Absolutely nothing changed except for a phrase.

 

I remember getting a worthless $2 coupon from a class action suit. Why? because of another frivolous lawsuit.. Some attorney measured a computer CRT screen that was advertised as 19", well it was only 18.99". The attorneys made millions, the corporations raised prices to pay for their attorneys to defend the frivolous lawsuit.

 

Over and over this happens and the only function it serves is to raise prices to the consumer to pay for teams of attorneys to defend these lawsuits and write stupid product manuals to tell idiots not to stick their hand in a snow-blower. Over and over the US government writes stupid rules and regulations, also know as the "full employment acts" for attorneys.

 

At the end of the day, you will still get charged the service fee, activity charge, buzz charge, tip, gratuity, assesment, donation, gift, grant, tax, etc... etc... Be prepared to get scammed.

[bevomom]

We are just off of the Mariner and had this discussion on the drive home. We have always tipped above the suggested amount for the great service we received and also tend to add tips for the concierge, Adventure Ocean staff, etc.

 

That said, to be honest we didn't really like the auto gratuity. Previously, we have enjoyed the face to face, "here's your tip and thank you" experience on the last night and morning. It was reassuring to know that our waiter was receiving our full gratuity, directly from us and in cash, and that our appreciation of his service was not going into a pool, or could be taxed. Under the new method, there's no guarantee he will receive our full gratuity, and I hope this new format won't negatively impact the crew. Our waiter was outstanding and we saw no need to visit GS or "deduct" for the night we ate at Chops or Johnny Rockets. I do see that could be a gray area for others, though.

 

We received a letter from the Hotel Director on the first day stating that for any reason we could stop by GS to dispute a gratuity charge. I, too, am eager to hear from someone who actually did and how the staff replied.

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

I apologize for this question as I don't feel like reading thu everything....but are you able to remove the gratuity charges completely and personally tip in cash instead? That's what I want to do, hoping it's possible.

[Ourusualbeach]

Just returned from a five night on the Jewel and let me tell you it is extremely easy to have some or all of the charges removed. A two minute trip to guest relations and it is done..

[Debde]

Just returned from a five night on the Jewel and let me tell you it is extremely easy to have some or all of the charges removed. A two minute trip to guest relations and it is done..

 

Good to know!!

I feel exactly the same bevomom and if I can continue to do a traditional cash tip, I will make the two minute trip!!

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

Good to know!!

I feel exactly the same bevomom and if I can continue to do a traditional cash tip, I will make the two minute trip!!

 

Same here.

[stupendousman8]

Corporations settle because they fear bleeding heart liberal juries that don't really care about anything except what they feel is 'fair'.

 

Sometimes. Sometimes they do it because they've done something wrong, and it would be cheaper to just fold and pay up to avoid having to pay more down the road.

 

I don't really care WHY Atlantis settled, but they didn't ultimately pay the $450,000 handed over to the attorneys. Customers and shareholders paid the price for that ridiculous lawsuit.

 

"Shareholders" = Atlantis.

 

I typically don't go in for class action lawsuits either. They are only designed to make the lawyers rich. Regardless, Atlantis probably wouldn't have to fork over the cash if there was no question what it was doing was totally legal, above board, and transparent.

 

At the end of the day, you will still get charged the service fee, activity charge, buzz charge, tip, gratuity, assesment, donation, gift, grant, tax, etc... etc... Be prepared to get scammed.

 

Already prepared. It looks like based on this thread though, RC already understands it's on shaky ground, and will rebate whatever gratuities you feel where unearned while on the ship. That's the least they can do if they are claiming these advance fees as "gratuities."

[steveru621]

Sometimes. Sometimes they do it because they've done something wrong, and it would be cheaper to just fold and pay up to avoid having to pay more down the road.

 

"Shareholders" = Atlantis.

 

I typically don't go in for class action lawsuits either. They are only designed to make the lawyers rich. Regardless, Atlantis probably wouldn't have to fork over the cash if there was no question what it was doing was totally legal, above board, and transparent.

 

Already prepared. It looks like based on this thread though, RC already understands it's on shaky ground, and will rebate whatever gratuities you feel where unearned while on the ship. That's the least they can do if they are claiming these advance fees as "gratuities."

 

Well we pretty much beat that one to death! Overall we agree on lots of points, others not so much. I enjoyed our little debate, and hope we leave with no hard feelings on either side.

 

Enjoy your future cruises...

[boo214]

We are just off of the Mariner and had this discussion on the drive home. We have always tipped above the suggested amount for the great service we received and also tend to add tips for the concierge, Adventure Ocean staff, etc.

 

That said, to be honest we didn't really like the auto gratuity. Previously, we have enjoyed the face to face, "here's your tip and thank you" experience on the last night and morning. It was reassuring to know that our waiter was receiving our full gratuity, directly from us and in cash, and that our appreciation of his service was not going into a pool, or could be taxed. Under the new method, there's no guarantee he will receive our full gratuity, and I hope this new format won't negatively impact the crew. Our waiter was outstanding and we saw no need to visit GS or "deduct" for the night we ate at Chops or Johnny Rockets. I do see that could be a gray area for others, though.

 

We received a letter from the Hotel Director on the first day stating that for any reason we could stop by GS to dispute a gratuity charge. I, too, am eager to hear from someone who actually did and how the staff replied.

where did you hear this?

[stupendousman8]

where did you hear this?

 

What guarantee is there? I believe that's one of the reasons why Atlantis was sued. It was found that a portion of the money it was collecting in advance didn't actually go to the wait staff, but rather was just absorbed by the resort to pay for other things. There's no guarantee that money given to RC actually all ends up going to the wait staff.

[MrsKC08]

We are sailing on the Freedom in just a couple weeks and we, as we always do, will be removing the gratuities on the last night. We are the one's who like to hand out our own cash tips to the service personell who actually care for us during our trip (Steward, wait staff, etc). When you have this other system in place, most of the gratuity is absorbed by the cruise line and only pennies on the dollar are actually "tips" to the staff. Frankly, I feel that we have paid the cruise line for our trip and our excursions...but the gratuities are for the staff...PERIOD. And in our travels and conversations with these staffers, they prefer to get their tips the old fashion way...in cold hard cash!

 

I have heard from others who have sailed who have had no problem removing their tips, but should have have a problem with this, I will come back and report after May 12th when I return home!

[akcruz]

We are sailing on the Freedom in just a couple weeks and we, as we always do, will be removing the gratuities on the last night. We are the one's who like to hand out our own cash tips to the service personell who actually care for us during our trip (Steward, wait staff, etc). When you have this other system in place, most of the gratuity is absorbed by the cruise line and only pennies on the dollar are actually "tips" to the staff. Frankly, I feel that we have paid the cruise line for our trip and our excursions...but the gratuities are for the staff...PERIOD. And in our travels and conversations with these staffers, they prefer to get their tips the old fashion way...in cold hard cash!

 

I have heard from others who have sailed who have had no problem removing their tips, but should have have a problem with this, I will come back and report after May 12th when I return home!

 

Just FYI, I have heard that when you pay in cash, the recipient is still required to give some of that to line for others that are not directly tipped. If there is not an automatic charge, the line assumes the full amount was paid to the staff member and asks for their portion. So, by tipping in cash you are not eliminating what the line gets.

 

I am not saying you shouldn't be tipping that way, just want you to be aware it may not serve the purpose you are expecting it does.

[NeoVega]

My daughter and I are disembarking on Day 5 of a 7 night cruise. What would be fair in this instance? $12 per day per person based on 5 day or $12 per day based on 7 days?

 

This is a Baltic Cruise and our intended destination for this trip was Riga Latvia. So we will not be returing to Stockholm with the rest of the ship. We have obtained permission from RCI to disembark early .

 

I have also sent an email to RCI customer service with the same question.

 

My intention is to have 2 days worth of tips removed from our since we won't be there to benefit from the service.

[Ashland]

I am leaving May 17th and will have no problem spending the 2 min. it apparently takes to have the auto grats. removed and continue as I have done for many years and tip in cash personally.

 

For those that have done this was it easier to take care of this at the beginning or end of cruise ?

[negc]

My daughter and I are disembarking on Day 5 of a 7 night cruise. What would be fair in this instance? $12 per day per person based on 5 day or $12 per day based on 7 days?

 

This is a Baltic Cruise and our intended destination for this trip was Riga Latvia. So we will not be returing to Stockholm with the rest of the ship. We have obtained permission from RCI to disembark early .

 

I have also sent an email to RCI customer service with the same question.

 

My intention is to have 2 days worth of tips removed from our since we won't be there to benefit from the service.

 

How much do you figure you will save by not paying two days worth of gratuities and is it significant enough compared to what you have paid for your cruise? Has the line adjusted your cruise fare to take into consideration that you are cutting your trip short? If not,do you think it fair to make up for their decision not to reduce your cruisefare by taking it out on the people who will serve you during the time you are onboard. In the long run, it is your decision to make and you should be willing to live with that decision. For myself, I wouldn't concern myself over what would probably turn out to be an inconsequential amount of money to me, but might create some financial loss for the people working on the ship.

[krazy4cruizen]

Just off 5 night Jewel cruise. Auto tipping was in place, with a letter of explanation on the first night. As usual, service was wonderful and I did not have a need to remove any tips. Because I have no personal knowledge of the dissemination of how much money each crew member keeps from my tip, and because we have made wonderful crew "friends" since the Jewel has been in Tampa, I gave cash tips besides. On future cruises without the ties to a particular crew member, auto tipping will be a very easy, no hassel option. IMO it is a welcome way to pay tips.

[karena1]

Totally agree. We have done MTD since it came out so have been pre-paying our tips since then. At the end of the cruise we use the envelopes for extra cash for those staff members we wish to tip additional. Works great for us. one less thing I have to worry about before, or during my cruise.