CUNARD "to LOOSEN UP "

[vjmatty]

Totally agree. And I would add that there is also a very great deal more to Cunard than simply QM2 and crossings. There appears to be a prevalent belief in certain sections of the "Cunard community" that QM2 is not only the flagship, but the only ship in the fleet.

 

J

 

Yes there does appear to be a prejudice agains Vista class ships....I say who cares, the interior is still clearly Cunard. 99% of the time on a sailing you are seeing the inside of the ship, not the outside.

[Cruachan]

Yes there does appear to be a prejudice agains Vista class ships....I say who cares, the interior is still clearly Cunard. 99% of the time on a sailing you are seeing the inside of the ship, not the outside.

 

Yes, the ship geeks (most of whom, incidentally, have never set foot on a ship in their lives) constantly bang on about how ugly modern cruise ships are. I never tire of pointing out to them that the ships are designed and built for the comfort, enjoyment and entertainment of the paying passengers, not for the aethetic sensibilities of those who stand on the shore and gawp at them.

 

J

[Whitemarsh]

And then the dancing. You are of the younger group? Where did you dance on your recent cruise?

 

David.

 

In G32 and the Queens Room.

 

Speaking of the dancing, it seems strange that this sudden urge to modernise only includes the dress code and doesn't include any plans to bring G32 into the 21st century. The rare excellent DJ aside (Alex), there is sometimes a tragic 'wedding party' atmosphere in G32 with too much focus on retro songs. And then there is the caribbean band....

 

It seems that Peter Shanks thinks that younger people don't want to dress up, but do want to dance to songs that are 20, 30 & 40 years old? Bizarre.

 

I always thought that movie was about Bazzaw Barry.:eek::D

 

In his dreams. :rolleyes:

[southwestie]

Yes, the ship geeks (most of whom, incidentally, have never set foot on a ship in their lives) constantly bang on about how ugly modern cruise ships are. I never tire of pointing out to them that the ships are designed and built for the comfort, enjoyment and entertainment of the paying passengers, not for the aethetic sensibilities of those who stand on the shore and gawp at them.

 

J

Your 100% right there is so much more, Queen Elizabeth is amazing, I also can think of a few people who have sailed a only a few mini cruise and the odd longer voyage, but can tell you every nut, bolt and rivet , not to mention how many light switches there are and seem to think Cunard is the only line out there and there a great many good lines

[Sea Tiger]

That is exactly what made me pick Queen Mary 2 for my first ever cruise! I wanted to experience the elegance of a grand ocean liner. I was sooo looking forward to finally boarding her and the formal evenings. Now I don't know whether to make final payment or cancel. If I wanted "come as you are" dining then a 7-day cruise on Carnival is less than half the price of a 5-day cruise on Cunard!

I do not think you will be disappointed.

All the romance of being out at sea: misty days, fog horns, dressing up, yummy food, stops at Halifax, a really laid back city, Boston on July 4th. A bit more expensive than the usual Cunard crossing, but some people can only spare 5 days NY to NY.

If I carry on like this I am in danger of booking myself.

As others have said, any changes are not going to made overnight, especially if the dress code has to be changed on the new Cunard site, and then it has to be discussed by the Fashion Police, so go ahead, enjoy your voyage and let us know what you think on your return.

[bazzaw]

And I would add that there is also a very great deal more to Cunard than simply QM2 and crossings.

 

Indeed -- and I am sure that Mr Shanks is acutely aware that he only has 156 sailing weeks each year in which to make as much money for his shareholders as he possibly can (3ships x 52 weeks per year). How many of those sailing weeks are allocated to Trans-Atlantic crossings? - and just how economically valuable is each of those weeks compared to "holiday" cruise weeks.? We do not have an answer to the latter of these two questions - but we can see that the number of cruise weeks for TA's are but a minor part of the overall Cunard operation.

 

Barry

[glojo]

G'day Rob

 

There are certainly more reasons to sail with Cunard on their ships than just the formality of dress rules. They have a certain style about them - a certain genteel ambiance that I have not experienced elsewhere - and this is not really for me a result only of people wearing Tuxedos on Formal nights. Many/most people (including me :) ) wore Tuxes on P&O Oriana and Arcadia when we sailed with them -- but those ships, although very nice and enjoyable, did not have Cunard's style.

 

Barry

Does Cunard have a certain style??

 

A VERY similar ship but.... A picture paints a thousand words

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cunard gets my vote and smaller ships will surely have advantages as well as disadvantages BUT if they operate smaller ships then will the price per passenger have to go up to make it profitable? (question not statement)

[Whitemarsh]

Does Cunard have a certain style??

 

A VERY similar ship but.... A picture paints a thousand words

 

 

 

Cunard gets my vote and smaller ships will surely have advantages as well as disadvantages BUT if they operate smaller ships then will the price per passenger have to go up to make it profitable? (question not statement)

 

They all sort of look the same. If you painted the funnel of the Oosterdam 'Cunard' red it would be hard to tell the difference from the Victoria.

[Whitemarsh]

Peter Shanks is blaming Australians for his decision to 'loosen up' the dress code. Apparently, he must think Australians are all peasants (must be our convict heritage).

 

Anyway, I read this article entitled "The top cruise gripes of Australian travellers' and it focuses on the most common cruise gripes that Australian travellers have. Interestingly (and predictably) the Cunard dress code - or any dress code for that matter - didn't even register.

 

If you want to dumb down the dress code Peter Shanks, that's fine, it's your decision, you're the president of Cunard, but find another nation to blame.

 

Or preferably, don't blame any nation or group of people. Just tell us that you're dumbing down the dress code because you want to.

[3rdGenCunarder]

They all sort of look the same. If you painted the funnel of the Oosterdam 'Cunard' red it would be hard to tell the difference from the Victoria.

 

More of Carnival's "economy of scale." There are Vistas all over the varous fleets that belong to Carnival. It's a good way to spread the cost of design over several ships. It's kind of like the way Ford and Mercury have what is basically the same car, but with a different name on it. Back when Chrysler corp had lots of brands, the same thing happened with Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, DeSoto, etc.

 

I think the fact that QE and QV are "just" Vistas is why they get less respect than QM2. For years, Cunard had QE2, a one-of-a-kind ship. Then QM2, also a unique design. After this, Cunard got two ships that are not unique in design. Yes, each ship has it's own interior design, and I'm not dissing them. But (to return to my car analogy) I think some people feel that two Rolls Royces have been followed by a couple of Fords.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Peter Shanks is blaming Australians for his decision to 'loosen up' the dress code. Apparently, he must think Australians are all peasants (must be our convict heritage).

 

Anyway, I read this article entitled "The top cruise gripes of Australian travellers' and it focuses on the most common cruise gripes that Australian travellers have. Interestingly (and predictably) the Cunard dress code - or any dress code for that matter - didn't even register.

 

If you want to dumb down the dress code Peter Shanks, that's fine, it's your decision, you're the president of Cunard, but find another nation to blame.

 

Or preferably, don't blame any nation or group of people. Just tell us that you're dumbing down the dress code because you want to.

 

LOL, that crossed my mind, too! :D

 

When we were in Australia, I loved how cities with a convict heritage were proud of it, while cities that had never had a convict prison were proud of NOT having a convict heritage.

[Whitemarsh]

More of Carnival's "economy of scale." There are Vistas all over the varous fleets that belong to Carnival. It's a good way to spread the cost of design over several ships. It's kind of like the way Ford and Mercury have what is basically the same car, but with a different name on it. Back when Chrysler corp had lots of brands, the same thing happened with Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, DeSoto, etc.

 

I think the fact that QE and QV are "just" Vistas is why they get less respect than QM2. For years, Cunard had QE2, a one-of-a-kind ship. Then QM2, also a unique design. After this, Cunard got two ships that are not unique in design. Yes, each ship has it's own interior design, and I'm not dissing them. But (to return to my car analogy) I think some people feel that two Rolls Royces have been followed by a couple of Fords.

 

They have a point. I'm sure the Elizabeth & Victoria are lovely (and I'd love to try them) but a guest that's a frequent cruiser on HAL, Costa & P&O must get a sense of deja vu when travelling on them.

 

I'd imagined getting to experience different ships would have been one of the attractions of trying out different cruise lines. But if all you tried was HAL, P&O, Costa & Cunard you'd probably start to lose interest in the ships themselves as they're all very similar (except for the interior decorations and QM2 of course).

 

Sadly, I don't think the crew have any heightened sense of respect for the 'Vista Sistas' either, as I've heard Fincantieri referred to as Tincantieri. I don't blame the crew for that, it would be hard to be enormously proud of a ship that is (at the end of the day) just another clone.

 

Again, whilst I'm sure Elizabeth & Victoria are lovely (and I would love to try them) I do wish that Cunard had of built a QE2 replacement (in terms of size, looks and design) as that would have been a very special ship (popular with those that like smaller ships) and the perfect running mate for QM2. Two 'QE2 replacements', in addition to Mary, would have been wonderful.

 

LOL, that crossed my mind, too! :D

 

When we were in Australia, I loved how cities with a convict heritage were proud of it, while cities that had never had a convict prison were proud of NOT having a convict heritage.

 

Gotta have something to be proud of! :)

 

I remember in Adelaide we were all repeatedly told that Adelaide was founded by free settlers, none of that convict riff-raff. I think Adelaide and Perth are the only cities not to have been sent convicts.

[3rdGenCunarder]

They have a point. I'm sure the Elizabeth & Victoria are lovely (and I'd love to try them) but a guest that's a frequent cruiser on HAL, Costa & P&O must get a sense of deja vu when travelling on them.

 

I'd imagined getting to experience different ships would have been one of the attractions of trying out different cruise lines. But if all you tried was HAL, P&O, Costa & Cunard you'd probably start to lose interest in the ships themselves as they're all very similar (except for the interior decorations and QM2 of course).

 

Sadly, I don't think the crew have any heightened sense of respect for the 'Vista Sistas' either, as I've heard Fincantieri referred to as Tincantieri. I don't blame the crew for that, it would be hard to be enormously proud of a ship that is (at the end of the day) just another clone.

 

Again, whilst I'm sure Elizabeth & Victoria are lovely (and I would love to try them) I do wish that Cunard had of built a QE2 replacement (in terms of size, looks and design) as that would have been a very special ship (popular with those that like smaller ships) and the perfect running mate for QM2. Two 'QE2 replacements', in addition to Mary, would have been wonderful.

 

Wow, times have changed! For a long time, QE2 was tied with Norway as biggest passenger ship in service. (One was longer, the other greater tonnage, I can never remember which was which) I can remember hearing people say that QE2 was larger than they liked. And now, at under 2000 pax, QE2 would be considered a "smaller ship."

 

QM2 is a bit larger than I like, but I console myself that all that walking allows me to have dessert at dinner and goodies at tea! I cannot imagine being on one of those 6000 pax monsters. No thank you!

[MsDeva]

The so called 'cruise' ships today are exactly that...'cruise' ships.

I can remember sailing on QE2 when all classes were carefully monitered and one had to stay in one's own zone. This has all long gone and with that so has the romance of it all.

The QM2 is a liner and looks the part...and that is where it ends. She's a transatlantic ferry and most probably the last of an era.

A cruise ship she aint!

One can book QG and think it's exclusive....not the case. I have seen passengers from all grades wandering around the grills deck, swiping blankets and whatever else is on offer and the crew just turn a blind eye.....that is when there are any crew members actually there.

The QV and QE might be amazing but the old Cunard spirit has long gone as has the wonderful atmosphere.

[Cruachan]

...I think the fact that QE and QV are "just" Vistas is why they get less respect than QM2. For years, Cunard had QE2, a one-of-a-kind ship. Then QM2, also a unique design. After this, Cunard got two ships that are not unique in design. Yes, each ship has it's own interior design, and I'm not dissing them. But (to return to my car analogy) I think some people feel that two Rolls Royces have been followed by a couple of Fords.

 

Actually, I rather think that Samuel Cunard would have approved of the Vistas and would probably have wanted a few more. Philip Dawson in his book "The Liner" (Conway, London 2007) says this in describing Samuel Cunard's original business model:

 

"Cunard wanted his Atlantic steamships to be as identical as possible, so as to establish a uniform standard of design, performance and operation. For his passengers, a consistency of shipboard design, service and comfort would be identifiable more with the line itself than with any particular ship in its fleet. In this regard Cunard's mail steamers were to have a degree of uniformity in outward appearance and onboard experience, much like the consistency of the railways and their coaches" [emphasis is mine].

 

In this regard, I would beg to suggest that the Vistas are truer to Cunard's original concept for his line than either QE2 or QM2.

 

J

[Norfolk Brit]

They have a point. I'm sure the Elizabeth & Victoria are lovely (and I'd love to try them) but a guest that's a frequent cruiser on HAL, Costa & P&O must get a sense of deja vu when travelling on them.

 

I've been on P&O's Arcadia, Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth, and got absolutely no sense of deja vu on Arcadia. In fact, it was my least favourite ship of the ones I've been on. QV and QE are the favourites.

 

Mary

[3rdGenCunarder]

Actually, I rather think that Samuel Cunard would have approved of the Vistas and would probably have wanted a few more. Philip Dawson in his book "The Liner" (Conway, London 2007) says this in describing Samuel Cunard's original business model:

 

"Cunard wanted his Atlantic steamships to be as identical as possible, so as to establish a uniform standard of design, performance and operation. For his passengers, a consistency of shipboard design, service and comfort would be identifiable more with the line itself than with any particular ship in its fleet. In this regard Cunard's mail steamers were to have a degree of uniformity in outward appearance and onboard experience, much like the consistency of the railways and their coaches" [emphasis is mine].

 

In this regard, I would beg to suggest that the Vistas are truer to Cunard's original concept for his line than either QE2 or QM2.

 

J

 

Sam's idea made sense. It was a way to keep customers loyal before there were such things as the World Club. "Stick with us, you'll know what you're about."

 

But now, line identity is more about amenties and lifestyle than the ship itself.

 

I bet only a small fraction of cruisers could tell you what "class" of ship they're on, or even know that a Vista is a class of shop. Some cruisers can't remember the name of their ship before they sail or a week after the cruise. I've talked to people who say they've booked a cruise to "the islands." Oh? Which line? "I don't know." Which ship? "I don't know, something of the sea, maybe?"

 

The first time I had a conversation like that, I was gobsmacked. how could you NOT care about which ship or line you're on? But not everyone is a detail nut like me.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I've been on P&O's Arcadia, Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth, and got absolutely no sense of deja vu on Arcadia. In fact, it was my least favourite ship of the ones I've been on. QV and QE are the favourites.

 

Mary

 

If you've ever seen the carpets in the hallways on a HAL vista, you wouldn't feel you were on any kin of QV or QE. HAL's color choces are a bit, em, er, let's just say bright.

[glojo]

I've been on P&O's Arcadia, Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth, and got absolutely no sense of deja vu on Arcadia. In fact, it was my least favourite ship of the ones I've been on. QV and QE are the favourites.

 

Mary

 

Hi Mary,

My sister would agree entirely with what you are saying but in reverse. She has been on several different cruise lines, sailed on the Arcadia and the Queen Victoria, she never realised they were the same class of ship. Eventually I had to show her a link that highlighted how they were Vista class ships. She much prefers the Arcadi and to me it points to how the different companies might try to add their own individuality into these ships? (question, not statement)

 

In this modern age of financial restraint I am guessing that to design a one off ship is now no longer viable and one class with multiple ships must be a huge cost saving... just stick the blooming bow of the Disney class ship onto the Vista class and have them as Cunard 'liners' :) (A job for Photoshop)

[Cruachan]

...I bet only a small fraction of cruisers could tell you what "class" of ship they're on, or even know that a Vista is a class of shop. Some cruisers can't remember the name of their ship before they sail or a week after the cruise. I've talked to people who say they've booked a cruise to "the islands." Oh? Which line? "I don't know." Which ship? "I don't know, something of the sea, maybe?"

 

The first time I had a conversation like that, I was gobsmacked. how could you NOT care about which ship or line you're on? But not everyone is a detail nut like me.

 

One of M's grandaughter's worked as a waitress on a cruiseship for nearly two years and still can't tell me which ship it was or even which line!

 

J

[Cruachan]

...or even know that a Vista is a class of shop. ...

 

I didn't know that either! :D:D

 

J

[vjmatty]

P

If you want to dumb down the dress code Peter Shanks, that's fine, it's your decision, you're the president of Cunard, but find another nation to blame.

 

I am actually surprised he didn't blame us yanks..... we do love our jeans. :o

 

But to be fair, there are jeans and there are jeans:

 

I would wear these to lunch in Brittania

 

http://shop.guess.com/en/Catalog/View/WB0A54R0LL0

 

But definitely not these-

 

http://shop.guess.com/en/Catalog/View/WB3A57R0I60

[3rdGenCunarder]

I didn't know that either! :D:D

 

J

 

Oops, guess I was remembering that I did some good shopping on that HAL Vista. :o

[glojo]

I didn't know that either! :D:D

 

J

 

I only learnt this after I joined this forum. A cruise ship, is a cruise ship, is a liner to me.

 

I confess to liking the colour scheme of the Cunard line ships but that is it :o Gloom England are getting THRASHED.. :(:mad::o

[balf]

Peter Shanks is blaming Australians for his decision to 'loosen up' the dress code. .

 

Blaming, I missed that.

 

David.