Why Always Princess Ships Have Norovirus and not RCCL?

[Mom33]

So far, the new Royal Princess has not had one outbreak of norovirus reported to the CDC.

 

Duly noted caribill :D ;)

[flashcat]

I used to think the same thing until I started looking. LOTS of RCI ships have had Noro lately - and when they get it, it's bad because they generally carry a lot more passengers.

 

I will say that we encountered some of the most stringent hand sanitizer wardens on RCI though. Seriously, they would not let you anywhere near the buffet unless they personally squirted you with that liquid stuff. They would yell at passengers and chase them down until they had them sanitized. It's amazing how lax they are on other cruise lines compared to what we've seen on RCI.

We have been on many Royal Caribbean ships and they are very serious with the hand sanitizers. Just did our first Princess and rarely saw the hand sanitizers. I think that makes a big difference. I was very shocked at how lax that area was.

[caribill]

We have been on many Royal Caribbean ships and they are very serious with the hand sanitizers. Just did our first Princess and rarely saw the hand sanitizers. I think that makes a big difference. I was very shocked at how lax that area was.

 

Once again, the use of hand sanitaizers, no matter how good at helping to prevent bacteria caused illness, does not help to prevent the spread of norovirus.

 

The opposite is true as many people will forgo washing hands thinking the hand sanitizing will do the job.

[baldercash]

Shellfish and salad ingredients are the foods most often implicated in norovirus outbreaks. Ingestion of shellfish that have not been sufficiently heated poses a high risk for norovirus infection.[19] Foods other than shellfish may be contaminated by infected food handlers.[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norovirus

[swedish weave]

I note that some are concerned about a specific ship having repeated outbreaks of noro.

 

Think logically about this----- The first outbreak can come from an infected passenger or crew member who may bring the virus onboard and not have symptoms for several hours after boarding. Thus, any number of people who come in contact with that person can be infected.

 

At the end of that cruise, the passengers all get off the ship, and the ship is sanitized.

However, over a thousand of the ship's crew don't get off, and one or several may have caught the virus and no symptoms have appeared. Therefore, the next cruise may also have an outbreak.

 

You can't blame the cruise line for this because people will be in close proximity with one another during the cruises.

 

I hope you can see how difficult it can be to curtail this virus on cruise ships.

[tequilasunrise]

I've noticed others also suggesting that not all of the problems are norovirus...food poisoning is a much bigger player in gastrointestinal issues in general.

 

I have wondered---I have noticed an uptick in Princess's problems with "norovirus" since they started serving more raw meats. They now have beef tartare (very risky), Sashami (risky, to very risky if you can't get and keep proper fish for making this), and Ceviche (risky) on their menus. Ships usually load food once a week or so. Proper sushi restaurants are getting new fish every day. Ceviche originated on docks with just caught seafood. If loading in the US, radiated beef is not available. In Europe, they can probably get the safe stuff. I cringe watching others in the elite lounge spooning raw beef from a platter that's sitting out into their mouths.

 

Risks include Vibrio, Salmonella, E-Coli, and Staph just to get started.

 

Stay safe and well---wash your hand frequently, especially before eating and after using the toilet. Avoid raw meats (cooked are OK, including rare steak that's seared on both sides), and take fresh hot foods in the buffet that are sitting back under sneeze guards or eat in the dining room.

[zacc]

As I was bouncing in and out of several websites reading some more on Noro a thought hit me which I don't recall reading on any of these boards(I apologize if this has be posted and I didn't see it). Since contaminated food(especially lettuce, fresh fruits and fresh veggies) seems to be a prime source or carrier of the virus, assuming that reports are correct about Princess having an unusally high percentage of cases, could the difference be the location where Princess purchases these items vs where say RCCL gets theirs? Simply tossing the idea out for debate.

[baldercash]

I note that some are concerned about a specific ship having repeated outbreaks of noro.

 

Think logically about this----- The first outbreak can come from an infected passenger or crew member who may bring the virus onboard and not have symptoms for several hours after boarding. Thus, any number of people who come in contact with that person can be infected.

 

At the end of that cruise, the passengers all get off the ship, and the ship is sanitized.

However, over a thousand of the ship's crew don't get off, and one or several may have caught the virus and no symptoms have appeared. Therefore, the next cruise may also have an outbreak.

 

You can't blame the cruise line for this because people will be in close proximity with one another during the cruises.

 

I hope you can see how difficult it can be to curtail this virus on cruise ships.

 

More complex then that.

Persistence

The viruses continue to be shed after symptoms have subsided and shedding can still be detected many weeks after infection.[16]

 

The norovirus can survive for long periods outside a human host depending on the surface and temperature conditions: 12 hours on hard surfaces, and up to 12 days on contaminated fabrics,[42] and it can survive for months, maybe even years in contaminated still water.[43] A study done in 2006 found the virus on several surfaces used for food preparation 7 days after contamination.[44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norovirus

[Charles4515]

More complex then that.

Persistence

The viruses continue to be shed after symptoms have subsided and shedding can still be detected many weeks after infection.[16]

 

The norovirus can survive for long periods outside a human host depending on the surface and temperature conditions: 12 hours on hard surfaces, and up to 12 days on contaminated fabrics,[42] and it can survive for months, maybe even years in contaminated still water.[43] A study done in 2006 found the virus on several surfaces used for food preparation 7 days after contamination.[44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norovirus

 

I will make it simple. Until there are vaccines there will always be Norovirus outbreaks, and outbreaks on cruise ships. Vaccines are being tested and hopefully someday there will be a vaccine.

[Charles4515]

As I was bouncing in and out of several websites reading some more on Noro a thought hit me which I don't recall reading on any of these boards(I apologize if this has be posted and I didn't see it). Since contaminated food(especially lettuce, fresh fruits and fresh veggies) seems to be a prime source or carrier of the virus, assuming that reports are correct about Princess having an unusally high percentage of cases, could the difference be the location where Princess purchases these items vs where say RCCL gets theirs? Simply tossing the idea out for debate.

 

Princess only seems to have a high percentage because they had some recent outbreaks. It is not a real statistic.

[zacc]

Princess only seems to have a high percentage because they had some recent outbreaks. It is not a real statistic.

 

Totally agree with you as evidenced by a post I made in this thread much earlier revolving around "reporting policies" and working with numbers. I was just trying to give the noro police another issue to discuss.

[Ronnieslady]

I've noticed others also suggesting that not all of the problems are norovirus...food poisoning is a much bigger player in gastrointestinal issues in general.

 

I have wondered---I have noticed an uptick in Princess's problems with "norovirus" since they started serving more raw meats. They now have beef tartare (very risky), Sashami (risky, to very risky if you can't get and keep proper fish for making this), and Ceviche (risky) on their menus. Ships usually load food once a week or so. Proper sushi restaurants are getting new fish every day. Ceviche originated on docks with just caught seafood. If loading in the US, radiated beef is not available. In Europe, they can probably get the safe stuff. I cringe watching others in the elite lounge spooning raw beef from a platter that's sitting out into their mouths.

 

Risks include Vibrio, Salmonella, E-Coli, and Staph just to get started.

 

Stay safe and well---wash your hand frequently, especially before eating and after using the toilet. Avoid raw meats (cooked are OK, including rare steak that's seared on both sides), and take fresh hot foods in the buffet that are sitting back under sneeze guards or eat in the dining room.

I got food poisoning on the Diamond about 8 years ago, Alaska cruise, from Sterling steak house, must have been from the steak.:confused: My DH had fish, everything else was the same. It started right away, as we were walking out of Sterling's had to use restroom,started around 10:00PM, lasted all nite long. both ends, if you know what I mean. By morning after being up all nite I was fine. just tired .Should have demanded a refund for our missed excursion in Skagway. It was our 1st cruise & I did not know any better.

Could it have been novro if it only lasted less that 8 hours???? And I was fine before & then fine after:confused:

You guys are experts & I'm sure you will know.

Thanks

[baldercash]

Sounds like food poisoning?

Food poisoning symptoms vary with the source of contamination. Most types of food poisoning cause one or more of the following signs and symptoms:

 

Nausea

Vomiting

Watery diarrhea

Abdominal pain and cramps

Fever

 

Signs and symptoms may start within hours after eating the contaminated food, or they may begin days or possibly even weeks later. Sickness caused by food poisoning generally lasts from one to 10 days.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-poisoning/DS00981/DSECTION=symptoms

[satxdiver]

I got food poisoning on the Diamond about 8 years ago, Alaska cruise, from Sterling steak house, must have been from the steak.:confused: My DH had fish, everything else was the same. It started right away, as we were walking out of Sterling's had to use restroom,started around 10:00PM, lasted all nite long. both ends, if you know what I mean. By morning after being up all nite I was fine. just tired .Should have demanded a refund for our missed excursion in Skagway. It was our 1st cruise & I did not know any better.

Could it have been novro if it only lasted less that 8 hours???? And I was fine before & then fine after:confused:

You guys are experts & I'm sure you will know.

Thanks

 

In answer to the op, we were on the RCL Mariner December 2011 and noro was on our cruise as was the next cruise only more so.

 

My partner got noro on a cruise several years ago and was sick for over 24 hours. I tried to not get it, but alas I came down with it also. However in my case it lasted from one evening to the next morning with frequent visits to the head. Other than feeling tired and a bit puny I was ok the next day.

[RaeBay]

Frequent hand washing is the best preventer. It has been shown that hand sanitizers are ineffective.

 

 

This is so true soap and water are best and alcohol based sanitizers used mainly for other microorganisms. Noro is also more prevalent in the winter months.

My Hands get alcohol washed at least every 5 mins at work and soap washed every 15 mins even though I wear gloves. I have had a lot of contact with people with Noro but touch wood never got it myself.

[caribill]

The CDC (source: http://www.cdc.gov/features/norovirus/) says there are about 20,000,000 cases of norovirus in the USA each year.

 

Is it any surprise that there are a few thousand cases on cruise ships throughout the world each year?

[CleoV]

oops! posted twice.

[CleoV]

I got food poisoning on the Diamond about 8 years ago, Alaska cruise, from Sterling steak house, must have been from the steak.:confused: My DH had fish, everything else was the same. It started right away, as we were walking out of Sterling's had to use restroom,started around 10:00PM, lasted all nite long. both ends, if you know what I mean. By morning after being up all nite I was fine. just tired .Should have demanded a refund for our missed excursion in Skagway. It was our 1st cruise & I did not know any better.

Could it have been novro if it only lasted less that 8 hours???? And I was fine before & then fine after:confused:

You guys are experts & I'm sure you will know.

Thanks

 

If it "started right away" it wasn't food poisoning. Probably noro, and you contracted it two days earlier. Noro has a 48 hour incubation (sometimes longer) and food poisoning, depending on which one it is, takes at least 6-12 hours, sometimes longer, to manifest. Food poisoning symptoms usually last for several days, gradually getting milder after the first 24-48 hrs.

[gemz]

Here lies part of the answer to our mystery. I heard that ships are now being re-routed and not going to Grand Turk because the entire port is closed due to several ships that have stopped there in recent weeks have a number of passengers coming back ill and officials are checking whether the issue lies with drinking the Grand Turk water. I'm not even sure if Royal Caribbean ships stop in Grand Turk so that may explain part of the reason why statistics show that Royal Caribbean has far less norovirus outbreaks than Princess.

[newcruiserdave]

Also it should be noted that anyone that is taking any acid-blocking medicine (prilosec (omeprazole), protonix, nexium, tagumet, zantac, pepsid, etc) places themselves at a higher risk for any gastrointestinal infection, as part of the function of the acid secreted into the stomach is to destroy incoming organisms.