Why Always Princess Ships Have Norovirus and not RCCL?

[gemz]

So no real answers but something to think about when you see numbers.

[beg3yrs]

First of all, I'd like to thank those who reviewed the data and saw that the OP has a valid question, IMHO there are some nuggets of useful information contained here.

 

Here's a postulate based on a combination of a couple of factoids offered on these posts:

 

1) Given one poster observed subjectively that there are more passengers who pick up and then replace buffet food with their hands on Princess than Royal Caribbean.

 

2)Given that although hand sanitizers are not considered effective against a virus, Royal Caribbean enforces the use of these sanitizers more than Princesss.

 

Is it possible that such enforcement behavior serves more to remind the Royal Caribbean passengers to behave in a more healthy manner at the buffet than those on Princess who are not forced to use the sanitizer?

[Loonbeam]

Ship Design could also be a factor. One thing I noticed was that Princess uses a lot more polished woods and RCCL a lot more metal. The polish on wood is more likely to pit a little and be a little harder to clean deeply.

[Charles4515]

First of all, I'd like to thank those who reviewed the data and saw that the OP has a valid question, IMHO there are some nuggets of useful information contained here.

 

Here's a postulate based on a combination of a couple of factoids offered on these posts:

 

1) Given one poster observed subjectively that there are more passengers who pick up and then replace buffet food with their hands on Princess than Royal Caribbean.

 

2)Given that although hand sanitizers are not considered effective against a virus, Royal Caribbean enforces the use of these sanitizers more than Princesss.

 

Is it possible that such enforcement behavior serves more to remind the Royal Caribbean passengers to behave in a more healthy manner at the buffet than those on Princess who are not forced to use the sanitizer?

 

On your number 1 I have never seen that to be true. Passengers act the same on both cruise lines at the buffet.

 

On number 2 I don't recall any difference on the use of hand sanitizers. They are crew members squirting it on passengers on both lines. On Ruby Princess last December they would not let me by without a shirt and the buffet layout on Princess is much more conducive for enforcing getting a squirt since you have entrances to each serving area in the buffet.

[ceba]

On our last cruise in January, hubby and I sat down in the theater before we noticed a very miserable lady a few seats down from us. On one hand I felt sorry for her to have spent all this time and money on a cruise just to be sick and on the other hand I wanted to scream at her "get back to your room and don't make me sick!". I was more annoyed than sympathetic. :cool:

[beg3yrs]

On your number 1 I have never seen that to be true. Passengers act the same on both cruise lines at the buffet. OK, your subjective observation is different from other subjective observations.

 

On number 2 I don't recall any difference on the use of hand sanitizers. They are crew members squirting it on passengers on both lines. On Ruby Princess last December they would not let me by without a shirt and the buffet layout on Princess is much more conducive for enforcing getting a squirt since you have entrances to each serving area in the buffet. OK, your subjective observation is again different from other subjective observations.

 

I suppose since these observations are all subjective, and I'm not passing any judgment on the value of any, it is meaningless to come up with possible causes.

 

However the objective data we've seen on the links previously posted is suspicious.

 

Some bright graduate student might take on either a master's thesis or a doctoral dissertation in this area. What fun doing the research!

[bookmama22]

I was on the passengers affected by norovirus on the Ruby Princess this past week, as was my husband. I can tell you that I only went to the buffet at lunch to make a salad, always used the hand sanitizer when there, only used my own cabin bathroom, wash my hands frequently... and so my sense is that anytime so many people are in a confined space, a virus can easily be spread. I avoided touching the handrails on the stair and let other people press elevator buttons as much as possible, unless I was the only one in an elevator of course.

 

At first I thought it was food poisoning but I think that I would have been much sicker and not able to be able to get up and disembark--but isn't that the issue right there. If 200 people were sick and we all needed to disembark, we continued to spread germs just be walking through the ship to exit.... infecting others around us and those who would be boarding.

[PrincessNancy]

I was on the passengers affected by norovirus on the Ruby Princess this past week, as was my husband. I can tell you that I only went to the buffet at lunch to make a salad, always used the hand sanitizer when there, only used my own cabin bathroom, wash my hands frequently... and so my sense is that anytime so many people are in a confined space, a virus can easily be spread. I avoided touching the handrails on the stair and let other people press elevator buttons as much as possible, unless I was the only one in an elevator of course.

 

At first I thought it was food poisoning but I think that I would have been much sicker and not able to be able to get up and disembark--but isn't that the issue right there. If 200 people were sick and we all needed to disembark, we continued to spread germs just be walking through the ship to exit.... infecting others around us and those who would be boarding.

 

If it was food poisoning (salad bars are the culprits in many cases of food poisoning because the veggies aren't cooked so the bacteria aren't killed) then the flu-like symtoms last around 24hrs. If you've had the "24hr flu" it was most likely food poisoning. A true influenza will last a lot longer. In a true case of the flu after the nausea,vomiting, etc pass then the weakness and fatigue will continue a week or more.

[zacc]

I had stopped reading threads on Noro for quite awhile but boredom has brought me here today. Nothing has changed. People talking as if Noro is only found on cruise ships while ignoring the fact that it is found everywhere you step each and every day of your life. People blaming lack of use of hand sanitizers(for those who have pointed out that they are totally ineffective-you are correct), blaming the crew, blaming possible poor cleaning of bathrooms, etc etc etc. The procedures that are in place to combat Noro on Princess(or any cruiseline for that matter) are probably the best you will find. With that said lets talk about the procedures that are in place in your local supermarket, your childs school, your church, the airport you flew through, the hotel you stayed at pre-cruise, the taxi or bus you rode on to get to the pier.....I think you get my point-there aren't any. The bottom line is that if you get Noro on a ship the true odds are that it has nothing to do with the lack of effort on the part of the cruiseline. Rather it is a direct result of something that wasn't done somewhere directly before passengers boarded for that particular cruise.

 

As to the OP's original question. To me the report beckons the question do all cruiselines actually all keep accurate records or is it possible that some lines might be prone to "using a sharp pencil." In other words making sure the number remains below the "we have report this number?"

[Christine Frances]

I had stopped reading threads on Noro for quite awhile but boredom has brought me here today. Nothing has changed. People talking as if Noro is only found on cruise ships while ignoring the fact that it is found everywhere you step each and every day of your life. People blaming lack of use of hand sanitizers(for those who have pointed out that they are totally ineffective-you are correct), blaming the crew, blaming possible poor cleaning of bathrooms, etc etc etc. The procedures that are in place to combat Noro on Princess(or any cruiseline for that matter) are probably the best you will find. With that said lets talk about the procedures that are in place in your local supermarket, your childs school, your church, the airport you flew through, the hotel you stayed at pre-cruise, the taxi or bus you rode on to get to the pier.....I think you get my point-there aren't any. The bottom line is that if you get Noro on a ship the true odds are that it has nothing to do with the lack of effort on the part of the cruiseline. Rather it is a direct result of something that wasn't done somewhere directly before passengers boarded for that particular cruise.

 

As to the OP's original question. To me the report beckons the question do all cruiselines actually all keep accurate records or is it possible that some lines might be prone to "using a sharp pencil." In other words making sure the number remains below the "we have report this number?"

 

So Princess reports "honestly" while other cruise lines don't so that is why their incident numbers are higher:rolleyes: Quite the statement.

[janacin]

On Ruby Princess last December they would not let me by without a shirt

 

 

 

I would hope so.]

[zacc]

[/b]

 

So Princess reports "honestly" while other cruise lines don't so that is why their incident numbers are higher:rolleyes: Quite the statement.

 

You have obviously missed my point....but of course that is quite common in a Noro thread. I didn't imply that to be the case at all-that was your interpretation of what I posted. I simply posed a possible reason that is just as useless(since it might be based on an opinion) as many of the other "why Noro runs rampent" concepts. And of course we all know that the possibility of a major corporation(s) falsifing required government reports is something that would never occur.:rolleyes: There is no actual way to compare the report apples vs. apples. It is all about numbers which of course never lie:D.

[Mom33]

I had stopped reading threads on Noro for quite awhile but boredom has brought me here today. Nothing has changed. People talking as if Noro is only found on cruise ships while ignoring the fact that it is found everywhere you step each and every day of your life. People blaming lack of use of hand sanitizers(for those who have pointed out that they are totally ineffective-you are correct), blaming the crew, blaming possible poor cleaning of bathrooms, etc etc etc. The procedures that are in place to combat Noro on Princess(or any cruiseline for that matter) are probably the best you will find. With that said lets talk about the procedures that are in place in your local supermarket, your childs school, your church, the airport you flew through, the hotel you stayed at pre-cruise, the taxi or bus you rode on to get to the pier.....I think you get my point-there aren't any. The bottom line is that if you get Noro on a ship the true odds are that it has nothing to do with the lack of effort on the part of the cruiseline. Rather it is a direct result of something that wasn't done somewhere directly before passengers boarded for that particular cruise.

 

As to the OP's original question. To me the report beckons the question do all cruiselines actually all keep accurate records or is it possible that some lines might be prone to "using a sharp pencil." In other words making sure the number remains below the "we have report this number?"

 

Excellent post!

 

Norovirus is everywhere and anywhere and anyone can get it and spread it. Norovirus takes all prisoners no matter what station they are in life, what religion, nationality, where they are employed and what ship they sail on. You can wash your hands till they are raw, but the virus can still get you.

 

To the OP, I have never been sick on a Princess ship despite the figures you

are questioning. If you have never been sick on all your cruises, then be thankful and keep vigilant. I will be vigilant also, but with the knowledge I could contract the virus eventually and it could be anywhere, not just on a ship.

[sherryf]

I'm wondering why the OP singled out Princess and RCI, instead of looking at ALL of the cruise lines. Being the data analyst that I am, I created a spreadsheet of how many reports there were for each of the major lines for the past 10 years, based on the referenced site. As I input the data, I noticed that most lines had good years and bad years, and that some years were just bad for everyone, notably 2004 and 2006. I didn't track all the luxury and smaller lines, but I noticed that Cunard had a few bad years with 3 reports, but otherwise were pretty good. Princess is not the worst - Holland beats them by a little bit. (average of 3.7 vs 4 reports per year.) RCI, NCL and Celebrity are about the same. (around 2/year) You know who's the best? Carnival, with about one case per year. Now, is that because Carnival is SO much better at cleaning, or that their passengers are SO GOOD at always washing their hands and not touching things. :rolleyes: Or maybe Carnival passengers just don't bother to report being sick. These figures are based on people actually reporting being sick. Hmmmm. I think a LOT more data would be needed to make any conclusion about noro outbreaks on each line. ;)

[Luvmyrotti]

We have cruised on many Princess ships but have also been on a few Royal Caribbean ships and one thing we have both commented on is that on Royal Caribbean you can always see crew members cleaning in the public areas. Not so, in our experience, on many Princess ships. Perhaps this helps. I am with those who caution 'wash, wash, wash' your hands at every opportunity and we also use the handwashes, although not sure how effective they can be against a virus! Just returned from P&O Aurora WC sector which had a bad outbreak of noro, which the ship appeared to put down to passengers bringing on board from a Mexican port, but who knows! In 30 cruises, we have never been afflicted with noro, although many of the ships were affected, to one degree or another, at the time.

 

My experience regarding seeing the cleaning of public spaces on Princess is certainly different from yours. I am just off the Sapphire and saw cleaning of public spaces on an ongoing basis on most days. This was not in response to any heightened noro concerns, it was just good routine cleaning.

[Charles4515]

On Ruby Princess last December they would not let me by without a shirt

 

 

 

I would hope so.]

 

That was supposed to be a squirt, not a shirt :)

[Redwing55]

My experience regarding seeing the cleaning of public spaces on Princess is certainly different from yours. I am just off the Sapphire and saw cleaning of public spaces on an ongoing basis on most days. This was not in response to any heightened noro concerns, it was just good routine cleaning.

 

Yes, I agree. I saw the same on the Emerald last week. These ships are cleaner than anything I can think of- cept maybe hospitals. Then again, maybe even cleaner than a hospital. True, there may be spots as these are large areas, but considering that these are mobile and in use 24/7, it's pretty impressive as to how clean they are.

[lovevacadays]

Very interesting thread to read. For me, it boils down to washing my hands with soap and warm water as often as possible.

[Pam in CA]

I've had the bad luck to have Noro on a cruise, and I'm convinced we were infected on a Princess overnight in a hotel in Jerusalem. It was in the middle of a 12-day cruise and several people on my bus came down with it within 30-36 hours or so of leaving the hotel. The hotel was filthy dirty (mold all over the bathroom, bedspread so dirty it was tacky, etc.) and while you could say the virus was spread on the bus, I still think it was picked up in the hotel. I became violently sick while in Cairo the next day and had a miserable 4-hour bus ride back to the ship. I was at the back of the bus and made sure I was as far from others as possible. When I got back onboard (with the assistance of the Princess rep on the bus), the nurse showed up minutes later and gave me a shot. I had that d*** virus for days and when we disembarked five days later, was just getting back on my feet. Awful experience that I spent curled up in my bed. No way did I want to leave my cabin.

[caribill]

These ships are cleaner than anything I can think of- cept maybe hospitals.

 

And hospitals are where you can pick up the most drug-resistent bacteria. The constant cleaning there causes the bacteria to evolve into forms that cannot be treated with current meds.

[Dorset Cruiser]

My experience regarding seeing the cleaning of public spaces on Princess is certainly different from yours. I am just off the Sapphire and saw cleaning of public spaces on an ongoing basis on most days. This was not in response to any heightened noro concerns, it was just good routine cleaning.

 

Can only talk about what I see and my experience over 10 cruises on Princess ships is that I saw less cleaning of public spaces on Princess ships than I did on the Royal Caribbean ships. I enjoy cruising on Princess ships and hope to cruise many more times on Princess but have to speak how I find.

[billco]

Can only talk about what I see and my experience over 10 cruises on Princess ships is that I saw less cleaning of public spaces on Princess ships than I did on the Royal Caribbean ships. I enjoy cruising on Princess ships and hope to cruise many more times on Princess but have to speak how I find.

As I posted earlier, Princess consistently scores high on the CDC inspections. That is enough for me.

[Northshorecruisers]

I think we are about to see a large outbreak on land. Several ships in the Caribbean last week - one line no worse than the other - visited Grand Turk where there was a major outbreak. All the passengers that picked it up on Grand Turk and carried it back to ships and infected their fellow passengers.

 

Some of those ships made additional port stops with other ships, and again the cycle continues.

 

The norovirus doesn't go away when you step off the ship. If you've been infected, your infected and are speading it to other people. Tons of spring breakers flying home today and probably getting infected. So, it should start spreading through schools next week.

[Charles4515]

Can only talk about what I see and my experience over 10 cruises on Princess ships is that I saw less cleaning of public spaces on Princess ships than I did on the Royal Caribbean ships. I enjoy cruising on Princess ships and hope to cruise many more times on Princess but have to speak how I find.

 

I guess it is subjective, I have done over ten on Princess, over ten Royal Caribbean and over ten on Celebrity and prefer Celebrity and Royal Caribbean over Princess on the whole cruise experience, yet I always thought there was more cleaning on done on Princess. Also have done galley tours on Princess and Celebrity and on Princess they looked more spic and span than on Celebrity.

[robgvic]

In over 25 trips on Princess UI have never run into Norovirus. I guess I am very lucky