Held Hostage?

[Seavoyage]

Hi All -

 

Given the latest incident on Carnival Dream - If the ship is indeed safely docked at port - what gives the cruise line the right to not allow passengers to get off the ship?

[KAKcruiser]

It may be a safety or security issue.

[Boatdrill]

The issue with the Dream was unique.

 

It was posted on another thread that the security system for scanning cards was down, so if they let everyone off, there was no way for them to know who was on and who was off the ship.

 

Even if the system was working, let's suppose they allowed everyone ashore while they worked on the back-up generator problem. The problem gets resolved and the ship is ready to sail. How do they notify everyone ashore ? If some people don't make it back to the ship, how does the ship know what happened to those people ? Maybe they opted for a flight out of St Maarten instead of going back to the ship.

 

And of course, how long would the ship wait for missing people ?

 

It's best to keep everyone onboard and accounted for.

[Seavoyage]

Hi KAKcruiser -

 

Thank you for your reply - I thought about that as well - but again pax are reporting overflowing toilets - unsanitary conditions etc. i just wonder what law allows the cruise line to tell people they have no rights to disembark on their own free will....

 

I guess I never thought or imagined that my rights or what I consider to be my rights would be disregarded or taken away....

[Seavoyage]

Hi Boatdrill - well that certainly makes sense. It just seems eerie to me that the line has complete control over the free will of the passengers...

[Scrapnana]

I'd much rather be held on a cruise ship than an airplane!

[jayisgerman]

I'd much rather be held on a cruise ship than an airplane!

 

Amen to that! Back in 1996 I was leaving LAX on a Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt. We are rolling fast down the runway and then suddenly our take-off gets aborted and we slowly make our way down to some holding spot off the side of the airport.

 

The plane - of course - at this point, is not connected to any ground power and the engines have just been shut off. It is a good 80+ degrees in LA and we are slowly starting to bake in our lovely aluminum tube. Next thing all kinds of mechanics show up outside on lifts, tools and more tools are visible... yikes.

 

Well - long story short. We sat there (near a hangar) for close to 6 hours. No food. No drinks (except First and Business), because they were afraid to run out. NOBODY allowed off the plane. It would have involved all kinds of hassles with LAX authorities and so we just sat there, hot, hungry, thirsty, and miserable.

 

When we finally did leave (at a point where we should have been already somewhere over Greenland) it was horrible to think we had another 11 hours to go. But oh well - I got home and thanked my lucky stars that whatever was wrong was discovered and fixed and I was alive. Never filed a lawsuit, asked for compensation or decided the media needed to know. Was just happy to have gotten home in 1 piece.

 

Lufthansa did send me a few weeks later a pre-printed apology letter and a KEY CHAIN! (Which by the way broke as soon as I tried to use it, ha!). Sometimes sucky things just happen in life... :D

[Seavoyage]

Hi Scrapnana - wow- what a story - glad everything turned out ok...

 

I too would rather be on a ship. I just don't like that the line has control over passenger preferences. Given the circumstances on the Dream - If I wanted to disembark and make my own arrangements home I just think I should have the right and option to do so and not be at the mercy of the line....

[sail7seas]

This is only speculation on my part and I know little regarding Immigration to various countries but I think I have read that a day entry to a port of call by a cruise ship permits guests ashore for a specified period of time only. They are required to back back aboard the ship and departing the country according to the set schedule unless a change to that is permitted.

 

St. Maarten well may have denied permission for cruise pax on that ship to be ashore at a given time and denied entry to them. Perhaps negotiations succeeded and they worked out an agreeable plan under the circumstances.

 

If a country will permit entry to a cruise passenger, I don't know a reason a ship would deny them the right to leave. That doesn't sound permissable but I freely admit I am not well versed in the subject.

 

If there is a PVSA fine, the pax would be responsible to pay it.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

I haven't seen an update on the flights home. Have they started yet? That's a lot of people to put on planes.

 

Sail's comment about about the landing arrangements is something I hadn't thought about. I still think it's the issue of knowing where everyone is. But perhaps St Maarten is also thinking about crowd control--if they let passengers off at will, how many people will bolt for the airport, whether they have reservations or not?

[sail7seas]

I haven't seen an update on the flights home. Have they started yet? That's a lot of people to put on planes.

 

Sail's comment about about the landing arrangements is something I hadn't thought about. I still think it's the issue of knowing where everyone is. But perhaps St Maarten is also thinking about crowd control--if they let passengers off at will, how many people will bolt for the airport, whether they have reservations or not?

 

 

Those who wanted to bolt for the airport (and I agree it is likely to be many) would have to cart their luggage down the gangway and clear St. Maarten Immigration/Customs. Perhaps St. Maarten was not prepared to have enoough officials available to clear all those people planning to enter the country in order to leave the country with their luggage and liquor and whatever else?

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Those who wanted to bolt for the airport (and I agree it is likely to be many) would have to cart their luggage down the gangway and clear St. Maarten Immigration/Customs. Perhaps St. Maarten was not prepared to have enoough officials available to clear all those people planning to enter the country in order to leave the country with their luggage and liquor and whatever else?

 

 

I was thinking of crowd control at the airport, with people hanging around, hoping to get seats on a flight--the sort of things we see around here in a weather emergency. But you've thought of a much more immediate problem, crowd and luggage control at the port. I fear we may see reports of ugly "me first" behavior when they start letting people off the ship.

[PRWeezer]

Delta charter flights have been headed south all day. According to this article, a total of 20 flights will ferry pax back to Orlando today through Sunday. No indications of how people were prioritized/booked for the charter flights.

 

http://www.thedailyherald.com/islands/1-islands-news/36738-pjia-to-assist-stranded-cruise-ship-passengers.html

 

Another news story indicates that pax are free to leave the ship:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/14/travel/cruise-ship-trouble/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

 

Cruise passengers received a letter from the captain, according to a passenger who e-mailed a photo of the correspondence to CNN....The captain said passengers could "enjoy another day in beautiful St. Maarten" or stay onboard for a "full schedule" of activities.

 

Haven't read whether folks would be allowed to remain on the ship until their flights depart or if other accommodations are being made at hotels or other options.

[SwissMyst]

Hi KAKcruiser -

..... i just wonder what law allows the cruise line to tell people they have no rights to disembark on their own free will....

 

I guess I never thought or imagined that my rights or what I consider to be my rights would be disregarded or taken away....

 

Read your cruise ticket restrictions and limitations and federal Maritime law. You have voluntarily chosen to put yourself in a unique jurisdiction.

[SwissMyst]

Hi Boatdrill - well that certainly makes sense. It just seems eerie to me that the line has complete control over the free will of the passengers...

 

Eerie? Try this one.

 

A while back one passenger on the Ryndam exercised his "free will" and tried to drop the anchor putting all lives and the ship in extreme peril.

 

Should the ship's captain not have absolute control when careless acts of one passenger can jeopardize the safety of all others? Know this before you board your next ship.

[KirkNC]

Hi All -

 

Given the latest incident on Carnival Dream - If the ship is indeed safely docked at port - what gives the cruise line the right to not allow passengers to get off the ship?

 

Same thing was true for us last summer on the Caribbean Princess. We were docked at Southampton and left a day late due to "technical problems with the bilge system" :rolleyes: and we could not get off. Kind of irritating as I wanted to go see the Maritime Museum :mad:. Since we had already been accused of starting munity by the Customer Service Manager (six of us were talking off to the side of the front desk talking about our disappointment in missing Liverpool :eek:), we did not press the issue.

[SwissMyst]

This whole incident sounds like it was very ably handled by Carnival and very badly handled by the main stream media. Good lesson.

[Boatdrill]

The airport in St. Maarten is small, and can't handle alot of people all at once, but handles big jets fairly easily.

 

Just for fun, here's a video of KLM 747 landing. The approach is right over the a beach (there's a good beach bar just to the left of the camera).

The video is about 1 minute.

 

 

If you love to watch planes (and people on the beach standing in the engine exhaust) ... this video has excellent footage and is professionally done; includes landings and departures from St. Maarten (American, Air France, United). About 5 mins.

 

[boaterette]

All the passengers were allowed off the ship and Carnival provided free water taxis for passengers to use. No one was held captive on the ship.

[Typhoon1]

Most people on TV today reported they were enjoying the extra day in St. Maarten. It was like being stranded in paradise.

[Valley Girl of VA]

Same thing was true for us last summer on the Caribbean Princess. We were docked at Southampton and left a day late due to "technical problems with the bilge system" :rolleyes: and we could not get off. Kind of irritating as I wanted to go see the Maritime Museum :mad:. Since we had already been accused of starting munity by the Customer Service Manager (six of us were talking off to the side of the front desk talking about our disappointment in missing Liverpool :eek:), we did not press the issue.

 

My goodness Kirk---didn't know you were ONE of those passengers considering mutiny? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[VallyD]

Amen to that! Back in 1996 I was leaving LAX on a Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt. We are rolling fast down the runway and then suddenly our take-off gets aborted and we slowly make our way down to some holding spot off the side of the airport.

 

The plane - of course - at this point, is not connected to any ground power and the engines have just been shut off. It is a good 80+ degrees in LA and we are slowly starting to bake in our lovely aluminum tube. Next thing all kinds of mechanics show up outside on lifts, tools and more tools are visible... yikes.

 

Well - long story short. We sat there (near a hangar) for close to 6 hours. No food. No drinks (except First and Business), because they were afraid to run out. NOBODY allowed off the plane. It would have involved all kinds of hassles with LAX authorities and so we just sat there, hot, hungry, thirsty, and miserable.

 

When we finally did leave (at a point where we should have been already somewhere over Greenland) it was horrible to think we had another 11 hours to go. But oh well - I got home and thanked my lucky stars that whatever was wrong was discovered and fixed and I was alive. Never filed a lawsuit, asked for compensation or decided the media needed to know. Was just happy to have gotten home in 1 piece.

 

Lufthansa did send me a few weeks later a pre-printed apology letter and a KEY CHAIN! (Which by the way broke as soon as I tried to use it, ha!). Sometimes sucky things just happen in life... :D

 

Yikes yeah I gotta agree with this. I was held on a flight in Dallas in the middle of a 105 degree day with no AC and I HATE FLYING for an hour (I cant imagine six...) we were burning up and I was starting to get freaked out, I think the girl next to me was starting to worry lol

[Seago2]

I can see where they wouldn't want to let the pax off to god knows where until they figured out their game plan. For all they knew they'd be sailing soon- and then what? Wait for an hour for two people?

 

I, too, was a prisoner in a tin can on a sweltering tarmac. I had an infant in my arms, it was boiling hot, and there was thunder and lightning all around us. I truly thought I was going to have a panic attack. If it wasn't for the baby I would have lost it. This was in Atlanta. For some reason we then took off for Charlotte- which is super fun to descend into during bad weather :rolleyes:.

[the2ofus]

River cruising is looking better all the time!

[KirkNC]

My goodness Kirk---didn't know you were ONE of those passengers considering mutiny? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

 

Yea Jane, I have a dark side :rolleyes:. It was pretty bizarre, I was stunned that she used the "m" word. Needless to say that has not endeared us to Princess.