Question for former crew members about signing off.

[Aurori]

This question is directed toward former Carnival crew, or maybe someone out there knows international laws pertaining to visas and whatnot. Anyway...

 

My girlfriend is a bartender for Carnival. Her sign-off is confirmed for April 6. She was unable to book passage home on April 6 due to no flights being available for crew from the travel agency. The first flight available is April 9. She booked and paid for that flight home for April 9. Now, because she will be signing off on April 6 and staying in Miami until her flight leaves on April 9, she will need a B2 signoff form signed by her boss and submitted to immigration. Her bar manager is refusing to sign her B2 signoff. He tells her "You should have talked to me before booking travel home". She told him she already paid for the ticket and nothing was available the day of her signoff, she had no choice. He responds "Not my problem". She has been with Carnival for 7 years and has never had anyone refuse to sign her B2. It seems like he is just being a bully about this. Is he actually allowed to do that? Can her bar manager flat refuse to sign her B2 visa form??

[okgirl]

Her boss has a boss she needs to escalate the issue. If she has never had to obtain permission from her boss in advance of making flight arrangements then she shouldn't have to now.

 

It does seem a bit odd that there was no flight available the day of, the day after or the day after that for her to leave the US.

[Aurori]

Her boss has a boss she needs to escalate the issue. If she has never had to obtain permission from her boss in advance of making flight arrangements then she shouldn't have to now.

 

It does seem a bit odd that there was no flight available the day of, the day after or the day after that for her to leave the US.

 

Each time a crew member needs a B2 signoff, their boss needs to sign the form and send it in. It's not that she never had to ask permission before, so does, it's that none of her bosses had ever said no. Why would they?

 

There was no flight available on the day of, so the soonest she could fly out would be April 9. This isn't because there were no flights available on April 7 or 8, but because the law states if you cannot travel with a work visa in a closed loop (Directly from the ship to the airport) you must obtain a visitor visa (b2) and remain in the US for at least 2 full days. This puts her leaving on April 9 at the soonest. Without that B2 form signed by her boss she will be unable to fly home on April 9, and there are no flights available for her on April 6.

[Boston Bill]

Each time a crew member needs a B2 signoff, their boss needs to sign the form and send it in. It's not that she never had to ask permission before, so does, it's that none of her bosses had ever said no. Why would they?

 

There was no flight available on the day of, so the soonest she could fly out would be April 9. This isn't because there were no flights available on April 7 or 8, but because the law states if you cannot travel with a work visa in a closed loop (Directly from the ship to the airport) you must obtain a visitor visa (b2) and remain in the US for at least 2 full days. This puts her leaving on April 9 at the soonest. Without that B2 form signed by her boss she will be unable to fly home on April 9, and there are no flights available for her on April 6.

 

 

Try this Jihn Heald everyone talks about, he seems to help people. Good luck

[rrraydon]

I would definately go to her bosses boss as well. Her boss is just being an a**.

 

[Aurori]

I would definately go to her bosses boss as well. Her boss is just being an a**.

 

 

She is going to speak with the hotel director tomorrow, which is her boss's boss. She doesn't hold out much hope though, politics run rampant among staff and crew and her boss's boss and her boss are friends.

[rrraydon]

She is going to speak with the hotel director tomorrow, which is her boss's boss. She doesn't hold out much hope though, politics run rampart among staff and crew and her boss's boss and her boss are friends.

 

That could definately be a problem :(

[vols_159]

Go to the captain or the CEO! Is she planning on another contract if not who cares who she pisses off

[Blurgh]

Go to the captain or the CEO! Is she planning on another contract if not who cares who she pisses off

 

In that case, go to CNN. LOL.

 

If she doesn't get the paperwork, what happens? Deportation?

[vols_159]

Don't think they should be able to refuse to sign

[sanmarcosman]

In that case, go to CNN. LOL.

 

If she doesn't get the paperwork, what happens? Deportation?

 

She turns into Tom Hanks. ;)

[Blurgh]

She turns into Tom Hanks. ;)

 

Living in an airport isn't that bad, it's better than being at work.

[Aurori]

She turns into Tom Hanks. ;)

 

Hah! It's funny because The Terminal.

[Aurori]

 

If she doesn't get the paperwork, what happens? Deportation?

Honestly, we don't know! I think she'll have to report to immigration and stay at the airport there. No idea, really.

[PaulMedik]

This question is directed toward former Carnival crew, or maybe someone out there knows international laws pertaining to visas and whatnot. Anyway...

 

My girlfriend is a bartender for Carnival. Her sign-off is confirmed for April 6. She was unable to book passage home on April 6 due to no flights being available for crew from the travel agency. The first flight available is April 9. She booked and paid for that flight home for April 9. Now, because she will be signing off on April 6 and staying in Miami until her flight leaves on April 9, she will need a B2 signoff form signed by her boss and submitted to immigration. Her bar manager is refusing to sign her B2 signoff. He tells her "You should have talked to me before booking travel home". She told him she already paid for the ticket and nothing was available the day of her signoff, she had no choice. He responds "Not my problem". She has been with Carnival for 7 years and has never had anyone refuse to sign her B2. It seems like he is just being a bully about this. Is he actually allowed to do that? Can her bar manager flat refuse to sign her B2 visa form??

 

 

Aurori,

 

If she were getting off Breeze on April 7 I'd be happy to ask him for you.

[smeyer418]

The problem of course is that her supervisor fills out her evaluation-it can effect her rehiring and future jobs. Going over his head has problems that you don't understand. BTW the staff captain(really the XO) is responsible for the crew issues. Going to the Captain directly can bring other problems for her. Its a mess. There is no good solution. Does she know why the Bar manager is being a pain? sounds like he wants something else....

[Blurgh]

Honestly, we don't know! I think she'll have to report to immigration and stay at the airport there. No idea, really.

 

That would be far from ideal but at least she'd be able to leave.

[chengkp75]

As part of the ISM system that all shipping companies must have, most companies appoint a DPA or Designated Person Ashore, who is tasked with being the contact for crew who feel that their concerns are not being taken seriously aboard. If there is a DPA, this is usually "required knowledge" for the crew. Ask her if this is true for Carnival.

 

However, the first step is to follow the chain of command onboard. She needs to ask her supervisor for enlightenment as to where in the ISM manual, or the crew rules and regulations where it states that she needs to clear her flight arrangements with her supervisor. He needs to also show where if at all, there are any restrictions on travel arrangements made by the crew. If the bar manager cannot provide this, she needs to request the same information from the Food & Beverage Director, the Hotel Director, and finally the Staff Captain. If no one can tell her where these regulations are, and why she has never been required to follow this procedure before, then she should contact the DPA.

[MissKIA]

Living in an airport isn't that bad, it's better than being at work.

 

 

funniest post ever :D

[Aurori]

As part of the ISM system that all shipping companies must have, most companies appoint a DPA or Designated Person Ashore, who is tasked with being the contact for crew who feel that their concerns are not being taken seriously aboard. If there is a DPA, this is usually "required knowledge" for the crew. Ask her if this is true for Carnival.

 

However, the first step is to follow the chain of command onboard. She needs to ask her supervisor for enlightenment as to where in the ISM manual, or the crew rules and regulations where it states that she needs to clear her flight arrangements with her supervisor. He needs to also show where if at all, there are any restrictions on travel arrangements made by the crew. If the bar manager cannot provide this, she needs to request the same information from the Food & Beverage Director, the Hotel Director, and finally the Staff Captain. If no one can tell her where these regulations are, and why she has never been required to follow this procedure before, then she should contact the DPA.

 

This sounds like very logical advice. Can I ask, were you a former crew member? You seem to know the procedures well

[Aurori]

The problem of course is that her supervisor fills out her evaluation-it can effect her rehiring and future jobs. Going over his head has problems that you don't understand. BTW the staff captain(really the XO) is responsible for the crew issues. Going to the Captain directly can bring other problems for her. Its a mess. There is no good solution. Does she know why the Bar manager is being a pain? sounds like he wants something else....

 

Yes, exactly this. Who knows why though, perhaps he's having a bad day. She's going to wait and ask again tomorrow, maybe he will be in a better mood. If still no, then she will go to hotel director.

[chengkp75]

This sounds like very logical advice. Can I ask, were you a former crew member? You seem to know the procedures well

 

I am a former NCL Chief Engineer, who has been sailing for 37 years. I am, however, a US officer, and therefore not completely conversant with immigration procedures.

[chengkp75]

As a further aid, MLC 2006 (Maritime Labor Convention of 2006), which has come into force for all seafarers. This covers a multitude of issues regarding crew welfare, including cabins, meals, pay, pension, etc. I believe there are conditions in this convention that covers repatriation of crew, which would cover her flight arrangements. Panama is a signatory country to the MLC, and most Carnival ships are flagged in Panama. If you google "MLC 2006", you can download the text of the convention, and you can check for any wording that could assist your girlfriend.

[Aurori]

As a further aid, MLC 2006 (Maritime Labor Convention of 2006), which has come into force for all seafarers. This covers a multitude of issues regarding crew welfare, including cabins, meals, pay, pension, etc. I believe there are conditions in this convention that covers repatriation of crew, which would cover her flight arrangements. Panama is a signatory country to the MLC, and most Carnival ships are flagged in Panama. If you google "MLC 2006", you can download the text of the convention, and you can check for any wording that could assist your girlfriend.

 

Wow, you're a fountain of usefulness! I reviewed the MLC and found some things that can be interpreted as helpful. I sent her an email containing the useful articles. She will ask her boss for his signature again tomorrow. What I found interesting is there is a line in the MLC that says something like "cannot refuse the right of repatriation because of unwillingness to provide a replacement". That is one of the exact reasons her boss refused to sign! He said "We are busy that cruise and I cannot replace you".

 

INTERNATIONAL LABOUR CONFERENCE

MARITIME LABOUR CONVENTION, 2006

 

Title 2. Conditions of employment

 

Regulation 2.5 – Repatriation

 

7. Each Member shall facilitate the repatriation of seafarers serving on ships which call at its ports or pass through its territorial or internal waters, as well as their replacement on board.

8. In particular, a Member shall not refuse the right of repatriation to any seafarer because of the financial circumstances of a shipowner or because of the shipowner’s inability or unwillingness to replace a seafarer.

9. Each Member shall require that ships that fly its flag carry and make available to seafarers a copy of the applicable national provisions regarding repatriation written in an appropriate language.

 

Guideline B2.5 – Repatriation

Guideline B2.5.1 – Entitlement

 

6. Each Member should require that shipowners take responsibility for repatriation arrangements by appropriate and expeditious means. The normal mode of transport should be by air. The Member should prescribe the destinations to which seafarers may be repatriated. The destinations should include the countries with which seafarers may be deemed to have a substantial connection including:

(a) the place at which the seafarer agreed to enter into the engagement;

(b) the place stipulated by collective agreement;

© the seafarer’s country of residence; or

(d) such other place as may be mutually agreed at the time of engagement.

7. Seafarers should have the right to choose from among the prescribed destinations the place to which they are to be repatriated.

 

Guideline B2.5.2 – Implementation by Members

 

1. Every possible practical assistance should be given to a seafarer stranded in a foreign port pending repatriation and in the event of delay in the repatriation of the seafarer, the competent authority in the foreign port should ensure that the consular or local representative of the flag State and the seafarer’s State of nationality or State of residence, as appropriate, is informed immediately.

2. Each Member should have regard to whether proper provision is made:

(a) for the return of seafarers employed on a ship that flies the flag of a foreign country who are put ashore in a foreign port for reasons for which they are not responsible:

(i) to the port at which the seafarer concerned was engaged; or

(ii) to a port in the seafarer’s State of nationality or State of residence, as appropriate; or

(iii) to another port agreed upon between the seafarer and the master or shipowner, with the approval of the competent authority or under other appropriate safeguards;

[Aurori]

She spoke with her bar manager again, armed with this information, and he still said no. I guess it's off to see the Hotel Director now.