Question for former crew members about signing off.

[tree.critter]

She spoke with her bar manager again, armed with this information, and he still said no. I guess it's off to see the Hotel Director now.

 

I have no help for you but find this situation interesting and hope that all turns out well for you both. Please let us know how it works out.

[JRock59]

Isn't there a HR person on board she can talk to? I thought most ships had them now.

[chengkp75]

Isn't there a HR person on board she can talk to? I thought most ships had them now.

 

Yes, but HR is outside the normal chain of command, which must be followed, or complaints will be dismissed out of hand. Actually, HR is the last resort onboard, before contacting the DPA ashore. Seafaring jobs, including US mariners, live under different labor laws than anyone else.

[golfadj]

What about the training manager?

[Aurori]

No Human Resources aboard her ship, unfortunately. :(

 

She's trying to track down Hotel Director now... he's a ninja, always stealth and hiding quite well when you need him! hehe

[joepeka]

Wow, you're a fountain of usefulness! I reviewed the MLC and found some things that can be interpreted as helpful. I sent her an email containing the useful articles. She will ask her boss for his signature again tomorrow. What I found interesting is there is a line in the MLC that says something like "cannot refuse the right of repatriation because of unwillingness to provide a replacement". That is one of the exact reasons her boss refused to sign! He said "We are busy that cruise and I cannot replace you".

 

Something puzzles me about this and maybe I just don't understand the T&C's of crew contracts. If her contract is up and she effectively has no "job" until her next contract starts (which I assume is the the case, the OP didn't explicitly say that though), why would her boss refuse to let her go (i.e. sign off on the B2) other than to be a jerk? Her departure would have been something known months in advance so using the "we're too busy to let you go" excuse doesn't cut it. It sounds like the boss is attempting to force her to stay through one more cruise.... and who knows, maybe another after that? How can that happen without a contract? :confused: Maybe I'm just confused.

[Aurori]

Something puzzles me about this and maybe I just don't understand the T&C's of crew contracts. If her contract is up and she effectively has no "job" until her next contract starts (which I assume is the the case, the OP didn't explicitly say that though), why would her boss refuse to let her go (i.e. sign off on the B2) other than to be a jerk? Her departure would have been something known months in advance so using the "we're too busy to let you go" excuse doesn't cut it. It sounds like the boss is attempting to force her to stay through one more cruise.... and who knows, maybe another after that? How can that happen without a contract? :confused: Maybe I'm just confused.

 

She requested a specific sign-off date and it took a while to get that approved from Carnival. She just got confirmation about a week ago. When a crew member receives a B2 approval, the Visa prohibits them from working their last 2 days on board. So they are basically short 1 bartender for 2 days of her last cruise. The bar manager says he cannot be 1 bartender down.

[rrraydon]

She requested a specific sign-off date and it took a while to get that approved from Carnival. She just got confirmation about a week ago. When a crew member receives a B2 approval, the Visa prohibits them from working their last 2 days on board. So they are basically short 1 bartender for 2 days of her last cruise. The bar manager says he cannot be 1 bartender down.

 

 

I agree with him...he CAN"T be 1 bartender down...I will do it..just tell him let me know which ship he would like me to be...:D

[chengkp75]

Something puzzles me about this and maybe I just don't understand the T&C's of crew contracts. If her contract is up and she effectively has no "job" until her next contract starts (which I assume is the the case, the OP didn't explicitly say that though), why would her boss refuse to let her go (i.e. sign off on the B2) other than to be a jerk? Her departure would have been something known months in advance so using the "we're too busy to let you go" excuse doesn't cut it. It sounds like the boss is attempting to force her to stay through one more cruise.... and who knows, maybe another after that? How can that happen without a contract? :confused: Maybe I'm just confused.

 

This is one reason that the MLC2006 was adopted. As I've said, I'm not completely conversant with CBP regulations, but I think the company is liable for her hotel for the two days she must stay in the US. Shipping companies were abusing seafarers by forcing them to continue to work because of flawed crewing policies. The comment about not being able to replace her next cruise, used to be fairly common.

 

The problem is excerbated by the fact that hotel staff on foreign flag cruise ships are not documented mariners, but are hired by crewing services in their native countries. Because the crewing agencies provide so large an employment pool in those countries, they carry a lot of weight with governments. The cruise lines can refuse to rehire crew for ANY reason, or no reason at all, so many crew are intimidated by their supervisors.

 

In fact, I believe that since the company is legally responsible for her repatriation, even if she disembarks without the proper form, they will be liable for her expenses until she is repatriated.

 

Welcome to foreign flag crewing. US laws and common sense regarding employment do not apply.

[rrraydon]

This is one reason that the MLC2006 was adopted. As I've said, I'm not completely conversant with CBP regulations, but I think the company is liable for her hotel for the two days she must stay in the US. Shipping companies were abusing seafarers by forcing them to continue to work because of flawed crewing policies. The comment about not being able to replace her next cruise, used to be fairly common.

 

The problem is excerbated by the fact that hotel staff on foreign flag cruise ships are not documented mariners, but are hired by crewing services in their native countries. Because the crewing agencies provide so large an employment pool in those countries, they carry a lot of weight with governments. The cruise lines can refuse to rehire crew for ANY reason, or no reason at all, so many crew are intimidated by their supervisors.

 

In fact, I believe that since the company is legally responsible for her repatriation, even if she disembarks without the proper form, they will be liable for her expenses until she is repatriated.

 

Welcome to foreign flag crewing. US laws and common sense regarding employment do not apply.

 

 

That's terrible.

 

OP- please keep us updated...I'm curious to know how this works out for her.

[Taxguy77]

This is one reason that the MLC2006 was adopted. The problem is excerbated by the fact that hotel staff on foreign flag cruise ships are not documented mariners, but are hired by crewing services in their native countries. Because the crewing agencies provide so large an employment pool in those countries, they carry a lot of weight with governments. The cruise lines can refuse to rehire crew for ANY reason, or no reason at all, so many crew are intimidated by their supervisors.

Welcome to foreign flag crewing. US laws and common sense regarding employment do not apply.

 

You used "US laws and common sense" in the same sentence!:eek:

I'm sure you know better, so I'll let it pass. :p:rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

You used "US laws and common sense" in the same sentence!:eek:

I'm sure you know better, so I'll let it pass. :p:rolleyes:

 

Yeah, my bad.

 

To give folks a general idea of the wages paid to the international crew, I remember that back in '04, my engineers had OVERTIME rates running between $1.75 to $10.25. The overtime rate was higher than their normal hourly rate. This ranged from the "engine boys" who cleaned the engine spaces, to journeymen welders and pipe fitters. And the deck/engine ratings were some of the better paid positions onboard.

[arpie05]

Not to hijack the thread but US waitstaff don't make minimum wage either. I remember while in grad school I was making $2.25 an hour since minimum wage was $4.25.

[chengkp75]

Not to hijack the thread but US waitstaff don't make minimum wage either. I remember while in grad school I was making $2.25 an hour since minimum wage was $4.25.

 

True, but you weren't working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 months, and living with 3 other people in a 8x12 cabin halfway around the world from home.

[golfadj]

Wonder what is now happening.

[Aurori]

Wonder what is now happening.

 

She is in Miami today. She went and spoke with her travel agent to verify there are no flights available on April 6 (the signoff day). Travel agent confirms all flights from Miami to LAX that are available for her are SOLD OUT. Spring breakers have bought them all up. The earliest flight is April 9. The travel agent sent this confirmation to my gf's Bar Manager directly via email.

 

Tomorrow my GF will go to Hotel Director and explain what happened. She was advised not to speak with him today, as it is embarkation day and he will likely be very busy. She's worried he'll dismiss her issue out of lack of time to deal with it.

 

As it stands right now, she tried to get a flight home on her sign-off day and was denied. It seems to me that by her boss being unwilling to sign her B2 form, that he is denying her repatriation, this would force her to stay on as crew until a closed loop flight was found on a later date. This seems illegal according to the MLC2006

[jonbgd]

True, but you weren't working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 months, and living with 3 other people in a 8x12 cabin halfway around the world from home.

Sounds alot better than what we had when I was with the Marines;)

[jayisgerman]

She is in Miami today. She went and spoke with her travel agent to verify there are no flights available on April 6 (the signoff day). Travel agent confirms all flights from Miami to LAX that are available for her are SOLD OUT. Spring breakers have bought them all up. The earliest flight is April 9. The travel agent sent this confirmation to my gf's Bar Manager directly via email.

 

Tomorrow my GF will go to Hotel Director and explain what happened. She was advised not to speak with him today, as it is embarkation day and he will likely be very busy. She's worried he'll dismiss her issue out of lack of time to deal with it.

 

As it stands right now, she tried to get a flight home on her sign-off day and was denied. It seems to me that by her boss being unwilling to sign her B2 form, that he is denying her repatriation, this would force her to stay on as crew until a closed loop flight was found on a later date. This seems illegal according to the MLC2006

 

Note sure if someone has already mentioned this, but here are alternative airports:

 

Long Beach - about 20 miles from LAX

Burbank - about 25 miles from LAX

John Wayne (SNA Orange County) - about 45 miles from LAX

 

I know that Southwest flies tons of times from FLL into BUR and LAX. She might have trouble with direct flights from MIA to LAX, but I would think there would be seats on connections in/out of any of these alternates. Good Luck! :)

[Litewait]

Her sign off date is the 6th, they havent I assume changed that, or had her sign a new contract for the 7th 8th, 9th ect.. So how can they work her even if they keep her on the ship/don't sign the papers? She doesn't have a contract after the 6th or a cabin I assume...

[Aurori]

Note sure if someone has already mentioned this, but here are alternative airports:

 

Long Beach - about 20 miles from LAX

Burbank - about 25 miles from LAX

John Wayne (SNA Orange County) - about 45 miles from LAX

 

I know that Southwest flies tons of times from FLL into BUR and LAX. She might have trouble with direct flights from MIA to LAX, but I would think there would be seats on connections in/out of any of these alternates. Good Luck! :)

 

Just like guests who flight out directly after they disembark, she would need to have a flight leaving late enough for her to arrive at the airport. For $1,534 she can fly to Long Beach at 1:15 and arrive at 9pm. But then she would have to drive to LAX and long miss her connecting flight. It's a mess.

[Aurori]

Her sign off date is the 6th, they havent I assume changed that, or had her sign a new contract for the 7th 8th, 9th ect.. So how can they work her even if they keep her on the ship/don't sign the papers? She doesn't have a contract after the 6th or a cabin I assume...

 

She would be forced into extending her contract because the alternative would be... who actually knows? Locked up in immigration? 3 days at the airport? Honestly, I'm not sure.

[Aurori]

She asked her Bar Manager a third time tonight. She asked if he received the letter from the travel agency stating that April 9 was the only flight available for her. He said "yes". she asked for his signature again for the B2 signoff. He replied "No. If I sign this for you, then I'll have to sign for everybody who asks." She responded "I don't see anything wrong with signing B2 on a case-by-case basis, especially in my case when there is no other option for me to get home. I'm not trying to go out and play. I miss my family! I wish I could go home on April 6. I cannot! It is not my choice! Please sign for me." He raised his voice "No!" mumbled something under his breath, shook his head, and walked away.

 

Unbelievable :(

[kirasmom]

Living in an airport isn't that bad, it's better than being at work.

 

I just watched that today!

[Aurori]

I have a reply from John Heald.

 

John Heald says: the B2 visa sign off is rather complicated but instead of me trying to explain this why dont we try and help her. Please can you send me her name and ship and let me see what I can do for her. I am going to ask someone to contact you and then have the details in your reply and they will relay this to me. Let me see what I can do. cheers

 

She is leery about giving this information up. As we know, ship rules differ from normal logical thinking at times. She's worried that giving up this information will put her job in jeopardy for some reason. Perhaps I wasn't to be told the conversations between the bar manager and herself? Should I divulge the info to John?

[golfadj]

I have a reply from John Heald.

 

John Heald says: the B2 visa sign off is rather complicated but instead of me trying to explain this why dont we try and help her. Please can you send me her name and ship and let me see what I can do for her. I am going to ask someone to contact you and then have the details in your reply and they will relay this to me. Let me see what I can do. cheers

 

She is leery about giving this information up. As we know, ship rules differ from normal logical thinking at times. She's worried that giving up this information will put her job in jeopardy for some reason. Perhaps I wasn't to be told the conversations between the bar manager and herself? Should I divulge the info to John?

 

Not sure. Did she speak to hotel director? If JH is only avenue left and it is important for her to go home would give info to JH.

 

However there is always a risk of permanently pissing off someone and losing her job so this is a tough one.