The Triumph Episode ...Nagging thoughts

[jtwanabe]

I've tried to understand that whole thing and be supportive of Carnival. But I've talked to some of the poor souls that experienced it.

I mean pooping in plastic bags. I didn't even know you could do that. It would have to be a hit and miss affair at best.

 

At some point there had to have been a radio conversation between the captain and headquarters about what to do. Men and women in

business suits around some boardroom were discussing all their options. Then came the answer: Issue bags to poop in. It's hard to evade

the fact that Carnival HQ not only made the decision not to take some emergency measures to alleviate the situation but also decided to

not turn into the nearest US Port which would have been Galveston.

 

Can someone who has some insight into this help me resolve this seemingly uncaring handling of this whole thing by Carnival.

 

:confused:

[Branman]

I've tried to understand that whole thing and be supportive of Carnival. But I've talked to some of the poor souls that experienced it.

I mean pooping in plastic bags. I didn't even know you could do that. It would have to be a hit and miss affair at best.

 

At some point there had to have been a radio conversation between the captain and headquarters about what to do. Men and women in

business suits around some boardroom were discussing all their options. Then came the answer: Issue bags to poop in. It's hard to evade

the fact that Carnival HQ not only made the decision not to take some emergency measures to alleviate the situation but also decided to

not turn into the nearest US Port which would have been Galveston.

 

Can someone who has some insight into this help me resolve this seemingly uncaring handling of this whole thing by Carnival.

 

:confused:

 

How do you know it was uncaring? What would you expect them to do? What other options were there? Based on the post-mortem of the incident, it turns out that Carnival worked closely with the coast guard to figure out what should be done.

[jjh5351]

I'm just not sure what else they were supposed to do. Go off the side of the ship? Haul out portapotties?

[James81]

I am just not sure I understand how challenging it would be to poop into a bag. That's not to say it wouldn't be unpleasant or inconvenient, but- and it is a gross thought- it wouldn't be that hard to get it in a bag right? That isn't to say I would want to try it out, but given the situation it seems pretty straight forward.

[SadieN]

People weren't squatting and holding a flimsy bag up to their bottoms. (Interesting picture, that.)

 

The bags were placed into the toilets, overhanging the rims like a trashcan, used, tied up and put into a container for disposal.

It's possible many double bagged the toilet. Leaving the one touching the porcelain in all the time.

 

By the amount of red bags on the ship they were prepared for this type of incident.

Red bags are international for medical waste.

[sewut]

You put the bag in a trash can or use it to line the toilet, and use it. What? Do you think you squat and try to hold it under you and play catch?

They probably didn't go to Galveston because they had to plan ahead. What are they going to do after they get there? Galveston has nowhere to "park" a ship for an undetermined period of time.

The media made such a big deal out of this whole thing. Some of the things they "reported" were just ridiculous and just proved their ignorance.

[firemanbobswife]

When my husband got deployed to Haiti after the earthquake, they had to poop in bags too. They used them to line a bucket and had a board thing that went over the top of it to sit on. All these years later and no sign of being traumatized by not having a toilet. Oh and they had to sleep the first night right next to the tarmac at the airport on the ground. A lot worse conditions than the Triumph ever was.

[OHCruiser]

I mean, REALLY??????????????

 

I saw a photo of the bags--they were HUGE. So, you drape it into a trash can and sit down.............If your toilet is dry (after all, they weren't working and guests had been advised not to use them), drape it in there & use it.

 

Some people seem to be sooooo unable to adapt--- and are also eager to whine about it--poor babies!

 

Does anyone really think that a multi-million dollar company didn't look at dozens of scenarios--ALL of which were BAD-- and ultimately choose the one that they felt would result in the LEAST poor publicity???????? Of course they factored in lots of things (and their cost was surely one of those factors--they are, after all, a BUSINESS), but it's idiotic to believe that this solution was just pulled out of someone's A$$ without a lot of time weighing the consequences.

 

I think Carnival did a fine job in a lousy situation AND I think that people--those who were on the cruise and those who want to speculate about it--just need to get on with it and GET OVER IT! The time to be an "armchair disaster specialist" is long past.

[Naomi John]

It's hard to evade

the fact that Carnival HQ not only made the decision not to take some emergency measures to alleviate the situation but also decided to

not turn into the nearest US Port which would have been Galveston.

 

Can someone who has some insight into this help me resolve this seemingly uncaring handling of this whole thing by Carnival.

 

:confused:

 

If someone researched the whole incident, the "nearest port" at the time of the fire was Progresso Mexico, but do to tides, winds, and drift, the easiest port to tow was Mobile, AL. This is according to the US Coast Guard. There is this thing called the World Wide Web, where information is available.

[WLHyatt]

I would imagine that if they didn't have the red bags, the situation on board would have been way way worse than it was.

 

Given the circumstances, I would definitely poop in a red bag. It was a bad situation that would have been worse if all the cruise lines had not prepared for such incidents. Carnival did what they could to make the situation as livable as possible for all the passengers, and the red bags were part of that.

 

As for feces running down the walls and all of that, I haven't seen any honest reports that said that poop was going down the walls. I can imagine that anyone who opened the toilet valve on low decks probably got the geiser effect from the gravity pressure from higher up in the ship with the suction off. Which is why they handed out the red bags, to keep people from getting the temptation to hit that flush button.

 

I think most everyone made the best of a bad situation. The fact that the fire did not spread and no one was killed makes the outcome better than it would have been if those things had happened.

[jtwanabe]

Most of what the government says should go in the bag with the rest of the consequences of gastronomical processes. (though i hadn't thought

of the toilet seat thing). :cool:

 

For a ship like the Triumph that is responsible for the welfare, not of a group of military survival types but civilian softies to not have a better

solution than that I just find negligent to the max. Old people, handicapped people, obese people, young children subjected to days of this.

Could they not have helicoptered some generators or port i-cans.

 

BTW I'm surprised this forum doesn't have more threads about the ordeal.

[CWcruisers]

 

BTW I'm surprised this forum doesn't have more threads about the ordeal.

 

 

It's old news. There were so many threads, there was a sticky from the mods asking that you not start a new thread until reading the ones that were already in existence. That sticky was just recently removed.

 

I have had the privilege of traveling in many parts of the world which still have inadequate toilets and where you squat over a hole or stand in footprints. It is what it is and you learn to deal with it just as the Triumph passengers and crew had to do.

[yogimax]

Why does there need to be so many threads on the same thing?

 

Because this wasn't an isolated incident. Carnival ships have a recent history of stuff going wrong, very wrong!

[Branman]

Most of what the government says should go in the bag with the rest of the consequences of gastronomical processes. (though i hadn't thought

of the toilet seat thing). :cool:

 

For a ship like the Triumph that is responsible for the welfare, not of a group of military survival types but civilian softies to not have a better

solution than that I just find negligent to the max. Old people, handicapped people, obese people, young children subjected to days of this.

Could they not have helicoptered some generators or port i-cans.

 

BTW I'm surprised this forum doesn't have more threads about the ordeal.

 

Oh there were. There were about 10% of posters demanding that the passengers be transferred off of the ship in the middle of the ocean to a waiting Carnival ship which was devoid of passengers. That crowd eventually died down once the people who were actually on the Triumph described how hard it was to transfer food from the other ships to the Triumph.

 

The answer is that they did helicopter in a generator once they were within range of helicopters (generators are heavy, and the heavier an aircraft's payload is, the less it can fly). The truth is that Carnival probably handled it as best as they could. Yea, the PR sucked, but they were working directly with the Coast Guard on everything, and the Coast Guard are the experts on this sorta thing.

 

Carnival is also trying to learn from this incident and spending millions of dollars to significantly improve the emergency capabilities of their ships. Both the Sunshine and Triumph's return to service are being delayed by several weeks to incorporate significantly upgraded redundancies in hotel services in the event of a power outage. Newer ships like the Breeze and the 2016 newbuild have fully redundant engines as of the new shipping standards.

[douglinc@msn.com]

This is really old news that has been beat to death, why not just forget it and move on. If you were not on the ship, why worry about it???

 

Doug

[spencercoop]

I've tried to understand that whole thing and be supportive of Carnival. But I've talked to some of the poor souls that experienced it.

I mean pooping in plastic bags. I didn't even know you could do that. It would have to be a hit and miss affair at best.

 

At some point there had to have been a radio conversation between the captain and headquarters about what to do. Men and women in

business suits around some boardroom were discussing all their options. Then came the answer: Issue bags to poop in. It's hard to evade

the fact that Carnival HQ not only made the decision not to take some emergency measures to alleviate the situation but also decided to

not turn into the nearest US Port which would have been Galveston.

 

Can someone who has some insight into this help me resolve this seemingly uncaring handling of this whole thing by Carnival.

 

:confused:

 

This is incorrect. The nearest US port was Mobile. From the point where the ship was at, Galveston would have been an extra 100-150 miles.

[MrPete]

In the past 3 years, I have lost power in my house 3 times, each one a 5 day stretch.

 

Hurricane Irene

The Hallowe'en Blizzard

Hurricane Sandy

 

And each time, you do what you have to to survive. It would be even odder to rely on someone else during those times, if I were someone's guest somewhere.

 

The good thing is our town had a gravity water tank that apparently had a pump that worked, but I had a pool full of water if needed to keep the toilets working.

 

And even for Irene, we were starting a vacation where the first two days required generators for limited power, and gas for the cooking.

 

It probably would have been more scary had the places we replenished for food and gas been closed longer, with supplies running low, but we survived.

 

I'm just glad that at this very moment, the heat is on, the electricity is flowing, powering my lights, laptop, and coffee pot, and all this is being me.

 

The Triumph incident should also surely be behind us now as well.

[Rudyard]

BTW I'm surprised this forum doesn't have more threads about the ordeal

.

 

It did, but a number of people who were actually on the cruise in question came here and let us know it wasn't nearly as bad as you, and CNN, thought it was.

[gtalum]

I've tried to understand that whole thing and be supportive of Carnival. But I've talked to some of the poor souls that experienced it.

I mean pooping in plastic bags. I didn't even know you could do that. It would have to be a hit and miss affair at best.

 

At some point there had to have been a radio conversation between the captain and headquarters about what to do. Men and women in

business suits around some boardroom were discussing all their options. Then came the answer: Issue bags to poop in. It's hard to evade

the fact that Carnival HQ not only made the decision not to take some emergency measures to alleviate the situation but also decided to

not turn into the nearest US Port which would have been Galveston.

 

Can someone who has some insight into this help me resolve this seemingly uncaring handling of this whole thing by Carnival.

 

There are a few things you're missing. First of all, the biohazard bags are standard emergency equipment on every ship at sea, not just carnival. They were issued to passengers as soon as it became clear the toilet system wasn't going to be repaired quickly, though they did get a few public toilets and some cabin toilets working.

 

Second, the two closest ports to Triumph at the time the first tug showed up and started towing were Progreso and Mobile. Next would have been New Orleans, then Tampa (not an option given the clearance of the Sunshine Skyway and the height of Triumph), and THEN Galveston.

 

We can debate whether Carnival has a maintenance issue that led to the breakdown (though the USCG initial report seems to contraindicate that) but from what I've seen once the breakdown happened they handled the problem in the best manner possible given the circumstances.

[big_duck]

Most of what the government says should go in the bag with the rest of the consequences of gastronomical processes. (though i hadn't thought

of the toilet seat thing). :cool:

 

For a ship like the Triumph that is responsible for the welfare, not of a group of military survival types but civilian softies to not have a better

solution than that I just find negligent to the max. Old people, handicapped people, obese people, young children subjected to days of this.

Could they not have helicoptered some generators or port i-cans.

 

BTW I'm surprised this forum doesn't have more threads about the ordeal.

 

You really think using a communal porta potti is preferable to using a bag lined toilet in your cabin?

[Cyber Kat]

Could they not have helicoptered some generators or port i-cans.

 

You do know they bring in trucks to empty out those port-johns or port i-cans as you call them. The waste doesn't just magically disappear :rolleyes: - so how were they going to empty them on the ship?

 

People don't think things through when they come up with these "solutions."

 

A number of years ago, I was on vacation in Italy - not exactly a third world country. We were on a tour bus up in the Lake Region (absolutely, georgeous, BTW). The bus made a "pit stop" at a restaurant so we could get out, stretch our legs, get something to eat and use the "facilities." I put that word in quotes, because the "rest room" was an open room with a cement floor - one room for men and one for women. The floor sloped down to a hole in the center. No seats, no toilet paper, no privacy and kind of difficult for women wearing pants - not even a log to sit on.

 

Personally, I'd have been happy with a non-functioning toilet lined with a red bag in the privacy of a bathroom with a door.

 

This was a vacation - not a disaster area. It was completely unexpected. Word of warning for those who have issues with the toilet situation on the Triumph - don't vacation in the Lake Region of Italy. :D

[sailor_jimc]

I really love all the experts making comments on the conditions on the ship when they WERE NOT ON THE SHIP! Repeating rumors and media reports that just were not true.

 

I was on the ship... Yes I pooped in the bag.. ONCE. The rest of the time they had the toilets working. About half the time our cabin toilet worked fine. If it was not working there were always "public" restrooms somewhere on the ship that were working. Yes there were lines but not too bad. Had I known they would get the toilets working again so soon I would have waited and not bothered with the plastic bag at all.

 

AND I NEVER EVER SAW SEWAGE RUNNING DOWN THE WALLS! If someone's toilet over flowed it was because they used them when they were told not to use them and then they filled up and when the ship would list in the wind it would come out ...

 

We had perfectly fine running water within a couple of hours of the loss of main power. But once on, we never lost water again, so washing and being sanitary was never an issue.

 

As far as which port they took us to... PROGRESSO WAS NOT THE CLOSEST PORT! By the time the tug from Progresso arrived, the wind had pushed us so we were equal distance between both Mobile and Progresso.. I used the GPS on my phone and confirmed it. Besides we were drifting north to north east at 8 mph without the tug so going to Mobile was the faster alternative anyway. Teh tug would have had to fight the wind also. Not that the tug from Progresso had any hope of pulling us anyway. It was so small that it was delegated to steering duties once it arrived and the much larger tug from Mobile did the pulling. now, would it have been as quick to tow us to Galveston? I can't answer that. It would have been close. But there was no one that I talked to that wanted to go to Progresso over Mobile. I can't imagine how long it would have taken to get that many people home from a city with no international airport.

 

So if you were NOT ON THE TRIUMPH, please stop making comments and giving expert opinion on what things were like and what they could have done and how you would have done things.

[firemanbobswife]

I really love all the experts making comments on the conditions on the ship when they WERE NOT ON THE SHIP! Repeating rumors and media reports that just were not true.

 

I was on the ship... Yes I pooped in the bag.. ONCE. The rest of the time they had the toilets working. About half the time our cabin toilet worked fine. If it was not working there were always "public" restrooms somewhere on the ship that were working. Yes there were lines but not too bad. Had I known they would get the toilets working again so soon I would have waited and not bothered with the plastic bag at all.

 

AND I NEVER EVER SAW SEWAGE RUNNING DOWN THE WALLS! If someone's toilet over flowed it was because they used them when they were told not to use them and then they filled up and when the ship would list in the wind it would come out ...

 

We had perfectly fine running water within a couple of hours of the loss of main power. But once on, we never lost water again, so washing and being sanitary was never an issue.

 

As far as which port they took us to... PROGRESSO WAS NOT THE CLOSEST PORT! By the time the tug from Progresso arrived, the wind had pushed us so we were equal distance between both Mobile and Progresso.. I used the GPS on my phone and confirmed it. Besides we were drifting north to north east at 8 mph without the tug so going to Mobile was the faster alternative anyway. Teh tug would have had to fight the wind also. Not that the tug from Progresso had any hope of pulling us anyway. It was so small that it was delegated to steering duties once it arrived and the much larger tug from Mobile did the pulling. now, would it have been as quick to tow us to Galveston? I can't answer that. It would have been close. But there was no one that I talked to that wanted to go to Progresso over Mobile. I can't imagine how long it would have taken to get that many people home from a city with no international airport.

 

So if you were NOT ON THE TRIUMPH, please stop making comments and giving expert opinion on what things were like and what they could have done and how you would have done things.

 

Thank you for your facts, not speculation! Good to hear an actual firsthand account.

[marlynnp]

Most of what the government says should go in the bag with the rest of the consequences of gastronomical processes. (though i hadn't thought

of the toilet seat thing). :cool:

 

For a ship like the Triumph that is responsible for the welfare, not of a group of military survival types but civilian softies to not have a better

solution than that I just find negligent to the max. Old people, handicapped people, obese people, young children subjected to days of this.

Could they not have helicoptered some generators or port i-cans.

 

BTW I'm surprised this forum doesn't have more threads about the ordeal.

 

April Fool's??????

 

You can't possibly be serious? I refuse to believe anyone's that dumb.

 

Let's put aside the whole distance a helicopter can travel on a round trip and just talk porta johns - you do realize they aren't magical, right? Guys come around with big trucks and pump the waste out of them. A regular porta john has a 60 gallon tank. How long do you think that would last?

[cruisinfanatic]

This is really old news that has been beat to death, why not just forget it and move on. If you were not on the ship, why worry about it???

 

Doug

Must be a slow news day for the OP