NY Times article on large cruise ships

[Noxequifans]

Thought I'd post a link from the NY Times on large cruise ships that some might find interesting.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/business/too-big-to-sail-cruise-ships-face-scrutiny.html?ref=business&_r=0

 

We have only once sailed on a ship larger than Oceania's fleet and found the crowds a real turn-off. We are loyal O fans and the size of the R and O ships suit us very well.

[orchestrapal]

Thought I'd post a link from the NY Times on large cruise ships that some might find interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/business/too-big-to-sail-cruise-ships-face-scrutiny.html?ref=business&_r=0

We have only once sailed on a ship larger than Oceania's fleet and found the crowds a real turn-off. We are loyal O fans and the size of the R and O ships suit us very well.

 

We find the size of the R ships PERFECT and I am sure we'll love the O ships as well.

Seven cruises booked on O in the future and never a thought of another cruise line or behemoth ship. We find it hard to imagine being on such a large ship with so many people.

[Kamloops50]

I used to hear the same issues about the B747 when it first came out.

 

Now we have A380 that carries more passengers .

[Lady Chew]

We have loved our cruises on Oasis & Allure & Liberty & Independence of the Seas. Those ships are amazing in so many ways, and are so well designed that you rarely feel crowded. We've also been on "smaller" ships such as Adventure ... we've enjoyed every one. When you're on those ships, you do wonder about safety issues, how long would it take to evacuate, how many people on a lifeboat, etc. We always pay attention at the muster drill, check our life jackets in advance, etc, and trust to the captain & crew to keep us safe.

(I don't know if we'd have that same degree of trust on Concordia or Carnival)

We've been on much smaller ships as well, on Holland America. All wonderful ships, all wonderful cruises.

We're actually a little bit worried that we will find Nautica a bit too small for our liking, but we're willing to take a chance for the itinerary.

I bet we'll think it's a great ship and that we'll have a wonderful cruise!

[JimandStan]

Inasmuch as we have never felt the lure of staying at the the largest hotel in the World, or shopping at the largest Mall; the appeal of sailing on such a large ship is a complete mystery to us.

 

In our humble opinion, all of those Rock climbing walls, surfing smokestacks, ice skating rinks and or grass decks add more vulgarity than panache; so rather than risk offending the masses that adore them, we choose a Line which operates a more conventional class of Cruise Ship. Class being the operative word in that sentence. :p

[Mura]

There's another aspect of these behemoths that doesn't have much to do with the amenities available on board.

 

When we traveled on NCL's GEM a few years ago (with a capacity of only 2300) getting off the ship was a special trial. Beyond, that many ports visited by these ships get awfully crowded even with average sized ships. What do you with thousands of passengers touring a place?

 

Several years ago we were in Barcelona pre-cruise and couldn't get in to Sagrada Familia. This was before I knew of "jump the line" options. But the lines were more than a block long. I was told that five ships were in port on that day. I don't know how large those ships were, but can you imagine having several of the 4,000+ passenger ships in port at the same time? And Barcelona is a large city! How about in small ports?

 

So I will continue to avoid these monstrosities. I'm glad to hear that Lady Chew has enjoyed her cruises on the Allure and etc., but I won't consider a cruise on such a large ship. (I am NOT saying she was "wrong" to enjoy them!)

 

For the most part Oceania fans are people who prefer smaller ships anyway. I don't say 100% of us feel that way but my guess is that the vast majority who post on this particular board feel that way.

 

Mura

[TKS]

More and more cities are proposing stopping cruise ship access due to the adverse affects on the cities' lifestyles (crowding of popular locations, ecological and environmental considerations, traffic, etc.) - but at the same time they are loathe to because of the money the cruise ships bring to their economies.

 

It's not clear how all this will work out, but it is something we should all consider when we book a cruise. I live in Santa Fe, NM, a tourist area as well as a thriving city in its own right. We all breathe a cumulative sigh of relief when tourist season is over, even though we really want them to return next year to support jobs, etc. in our city. This argument goes round and round every year, and to date no answers have presented themselves. Each city must decide for itself and then act.

 

As cruise passengers we can do our best to be respectful of the cities and areas we visit - the people, facilities and visitor sites. We should thank the local people for their assistance and cooperation (Astoria, Washington, comes to mind - an amazing little town which has extended the welcome mat to cruise ships with many local volunteers assisting in orienting and moving people around as well as the businesses making money from the commercial venture.), try to fit in as best we can with the "vibe" of the location rather than act like a locust swarm in a fresh field, and do our best to help the city view cruise ships and their passengers as an asset, not something which must be endured for the sake of the money. For example, the Astorians are very proud of the old downtown theater/community center they restored at great cost to the locals - I spent time talking to the local volunteers about what they had done, admiring their work, and then I gave a generous contribution to assist with its upkeep and other worthy projects. They saw the donation go into the box and knew they were appreciated and respected. We were people meeting to share a piece of our lives briefly, not just tourists swarming their town looking for souvenirs, photographs and food/drink, leaving our residue behind for them to clean up. I hope they enjoyed showing off their small city as much a I enjoyed the beautiful, peaceful and friendly atmosphere they presented to us.

[Hawaiidan]

Inasmuch as we have never felt the lure of staying at the the largest hotel in the World, or shopping at the largest Mall; the appeal of sailing on such a large ship is a complete mystery to us.

 

In our humble opinion, all of those Rock climbing walls, surfing smokestacks, ice skating rinks and or grass decks add more vulgarity than panache; so rather than risk offending the masses that adore them, we choose a Line which operates a more conventional class of Cruise Ship. Class being the operative word in that sentence. :p

 

 

That mark being marketing 101, which is the longer the customer remains in the store the mor he is likely to spend. Casinos are built so there is no direct route anywhere.

 

The mammoth ships with up to 33% of their space devoted to retail malls, 10 to 30 pay extra food options and dozens of activities all for just a few $$ more. These massive arks plan on more sea days and calculated problems getting off to keep passengers on board.

 

All this designed to get you to spend and stay on board for as long as possible even in ports and to instill in the passenger that maybe it is not worth even getting off the ship.

 

Second, they are designed for the customer who wants an all inclusive atmosphere in a unique setting the floating resort. Many passengers are thus attracted to this 24/7 inclusive party, rather than the desire to sail the sea. Thus it is secondary that the place is a ship.:o These are ships which in reality are for people who don't care about being on a ship but seeking a totally inclusive, non stop eating-drinking-party.

 

Finally, in order to appeal to the largest demographic, in order to fill 2000 to 3000 cabins, they market to a huge audience. ..HUGE :eek:

 

The larger the market the greater the differences within it. I sailed on NCL once where the demographics ran from a biker gang to university professors..... it was a huge mix master. along with a legion of gold chain/buffet bunnies.....Gimme..get me, Out of my way, that mine, more, more of everything...were daily themes.

 

Some of it worked and some went very wrong...cultural clashes abounded.. Drunks,lounge lizzards,preschoolers,Rhodes schloars ,the super cheap and the" do you know who I am",' crowds.:( all together in a huge box; however a box far at sea with no escape.

 

Oceana with 600 to 1200 charges more and draws from a much smaller, more similar group of travelers. Travelers who by their commonality are more likely to blend and enjoy each other are the rule rather than the exception..

 

It might be of interest that the largest ships to day are 50% larger than the US Navys ;argest aircraft carrier....

They are money makers... and we will see more and more .

 

More is what they are selling... not better.:rolleyes:

[gillianrose]

More and more cities are proposing stopping cruise ship access due to the adverse affects on the cities' lifestyles (crowding of popular locations, ecological and environmental considerations, traffic, etc.) - but at the same time they are loathe to because of the money the cruise ships bring to their economies.

 

I would like to know how much money per cruise passenger is actually spent in the various ports, because from reading and posting to Cruise Critic for ten years, I don't think it is much.

 

Average cruisers (unlike travelers who go somewhere as a destination), especially those that cruise a lot, don't usually spend more than a night or two at their embarkation port, if that, and the days in port are usually short so that the cruise line can get passengers back onboard to spend money on the ship, so the few hours ashore don't usually generate much revenue for anyone but the cruise lines and excursion companies, and some trinket shops that are often run by the same companies at each port, not owned by locals.

[Hawaiidan]

I would like to know how much money per cruise passenger is actually spent in the various ports, because from reading and posting to Cruise Critic for ten years, I don't think it is much.

 

Average cruisers (unlike travelers who go somewhere as a destination), especially those that cruise a lot, don't usually spend more than a night or two at their embarkation port, if that, and the days in port are usually short so that the cruise line can get passengers back onboard to spend money on the ship, so the few hours ashore don't usually generate much revenue for anyone but the cruise lines and excursion companies, and some trinket shops that are often run by the same companies at each port, not owned by locals.

 

I cant speak for the Caribe, which I think is way more. But here in Kona

it is in the millions per month for one ship once a week in Kona, according to the local Visitor bureau. In port cities here over 50% of the economy is visitor dependent. That's car wash boys and fish cutters to tour guides and bus/taxi drivers

 

In Alaska ports take in over a million a day!.... that's per port.. and in 4 months make enough to survive for a whole year

 

Why is it that cruise companies have developed fake ports ( ie their special islands) Grand Turk, Dominica, Icy Straits, Half Moon Caye, and the list goes on Venezuela is developing a island with 120 shops, no sights what so ever. The bucks are massive with 2 or more ships 5 to 1o,000 people ( don't for get crew that get the day off or part of it)

That's why too princess and others have built their own stores , restraunts and hotels in those ports

Then there are the commissions from ship sponsored

 

we are talking docking fees, sales tax, restaurants, rental cars, gas stations, markets, parks,tours, and all manner of trinkets. Volcanoes National Park out of Hilo figured it alone was generating for the area on cruise ship days $700,000+ for the local economy

 

Are kidding this is major money for locals

[caviargal]

We despise the monster ships - they are everything we dislike when on vacation. The number of children (many running around unsupervised), the constant nickel and diming for everything, the loud announcements, the extra charges to enjoy a decent meal, the stupid pool games, overcrowded pool areas, chair hogs, overall ambiance, obnoxious gold-by-the-inch sales - the list is long. They are the antithesis of what we enjoy.

 

We also dislike Vegas and Disney and some of these monsters are reminiscent of both.

 

Oceania was a breath of fresh air. We are no longer avid cruisers but very much enjoyed our cruise experience on Oceania, except for the port experiences overall. These ports are simply overrun with cruise ship passengers and many have become so commercialized as to lose their appeal entirely.

 

Should we ever ocean cruise again, it would be with O, Windstar or PG.

[pacheco18]

I am a devoted R ship fan; I even find the O class ships too large for my liking.

 

BUT I really want to go on Oasis. I have heard only fabulous things about it from people whose opinions I trust -- especially the first class entertainment. I am thinking of trying to find a cruise where the ship is the destination and there are few kids (maybe a transatlantic). I would not consider it for any port intensive cruise but I am open to the "floating resort" concept and it's cheaper than a transatlantic business class ticket. I like variety and I think i would enjoy the experience!

[TKS]

I would like to know how much money per cruise passenger is actually spent in the various ports, because from reading and posting to Cruise Critic for ten years, I don't think it is much.

 

Average cruisers (unlike travelers who go somewhere as a destination), especially those that cruise a lot, don't usually spend more than a night or two at their embarkation port, if that, and the days in port are usually short so that the cruise line can get passengers back onboard to spend money on the ship, so the few hours ashore don't usually generate much revenue for anyone but the cruise lines and excursion companies, and some trinket shops that are often run by the same companies at each port, not owned by locals.

 

Gillianrose, I'm not an economist, by any means, but the articles I have read about tourism indicate every dollar a tourist spends goes through the local economy about five times during the course of it's cycle in a city. The $$$ you spend for a tour then go to the pockets of the employees of the tour company, who spend it at the grocery store, and from the pockets of the grocery store employees to the gas station whose employees go to the movie theatre, etc. If Dan's numbers are correct, the impact on even a fairly large city could be potentially quite large, even if the "typical" cruise passenger is fairly tight fisted. For a small city or town it could easily provide a large portion of the year's income for the town.

 

As another example of the impact of tourism. Sturgis, SD, the site of the largest bike rally in the US takes place 1 (one) week in August every year. Sturgis is a small town of under 10,000, and many locals rent their houses and vacate for the week to miss the craziness. Most downtown businesses clear their display floors, rent the spaces to vendors who remove plate glass windows and sell t-shirts, leather and chrome to the hoards of bikers passing on the street from make-shift open air store counters. Hotels as far as 200 miles away are full for the week, at nightly rates inflated for that week's demand. Some local ranchers move their cattle, set up facilities and open their fields to thousands of campers for the week. Over 600,000 people are reputed to visit Sturgis during that one week. Many, if not most, locals hate the week, but they endure it because the revenue from that one week provide over 50% of their annual business and city income. That can make the difference between a successful small town or one that cannot survive. The cruising industry is no different.

[moggyhill]

We are destination cruisers who adore Oceania. However we have also sailed on Allure and Oasis of the Seas. Despite the total number of people on board getting on and off of the ship was a well oiled machine and we never felt crowded. We can not say this about departing Oceania ships!!!! We had a great time on the cruise and enjoyed what we did. However, we did just try the ships to see what the ships had to offer and it was certainly never about where they would go as they are restricted from so many places because of their size.

[pacheco18]

We are destination cruisers who adore Oceania. However we have also sailed on Allure and Oasis of the Seas. Despite the total number of people on board getting on and off of the ship was a well oiled machine and we never felt crowded. We can not say this about departing Oceania ships!!!! We had a great time on the cruise and enjoyed what we did. However, we did just try the ships to see what the ships had to offer and it was certainly never about where they would go as they are restricted from so many places because of their size.

 

Glad to hear this!

[RJB]

Inasmuch as we have never felt the lure of staying at the the largest hotel in the World, or shopping at the largest Mall; the appeal of sailing on such a large ship is a complete mystery to us.

 

In our humble opinion, all of those Rock climbing walls, surfing smokestacks, ice skating rinks and or grass decks add more vulgarity than panache; so rather than risk offending the masses that adore them, we choose a Line which operates a more conventional class of Cruise Ship. Class being the operative word in that sentence. :p

Could not say it any better than you. We agree 100%. :):)

[Hawaiidan]

:rolleyes:Be careful as to passenger demeanor.

First I doubt that they would sail one of those monsters trans-Atlantic because they were designed for the 7 and 10 day Caribe crowd out of Miami and Ft Lauderdale.

 

Let me relate a short story that happened on a trans-Atlantic a few years ago on a very big (2200 passenger , mega is 2800+ and Monster is 3500+)

This was a 28 day cruise Venice to Venice toFt Lauderdale. The first 14 days the ship was not totally full maybe 80% tops. It was not deeply discounted, and the passengers were an interesting and very well mannered lot.

The second 14 days most of the first cruise got off and an entirely new group got on from deeply discounted fares for the trans-Atlantic portion.

This new group were, well loud, obnoxious, demanding, rude and that was the better half. They filled the ship to max. Theft was common if you left something un attended it got stolen. People were trying to pry art off the walls, things like door knobs and decorations in the elevator were pried off. Trivia was cancelled because people were stealing the door prizes. The library was broken into to search for goodies. There were fights and confrontations daily around the pool !

Manners??? are you kidding.... people did not just cut in lines the forced their way in and flipped you off...

Scooter passengers were trying to drive down the stairs. To elderly men gave their scooters to their grand kids to drive around the deck and race...:mad:

It was not pretty. The ships captain had to daily reprimand passengers, finally closing off sections of the ship to all.

 

My observation was that in order to fill the large ship for the transatlantic they had to drop prices to a level that attracted a very unattractive level of society... The larger the ship the more of a cross section of life your are likely to encounter. Couple that with the cheaper the price that lower that pool of society lowered still.

So, you may have a good time, but on the other hand you might get trapped on the ship from hell.

Id' rather spend 8 hours in Business or coach than 14 days in a an atmosphere where I spent on that cruise.

 

Today I will not sail on a ship over1300... and prefer under 700

Over that and it is a calculated risk... and the risk rises exponentially as the number of passengers rises.

[ronrick1943]

Really it depends on what you want. I like the "O" ships, they have everything I need when on a cruise. The "R" ships are nice, but the "O" ship fits my needs. Just don't like anything between 2,000 & 4500 people, but that's us.

Rick

[ggglo]

We are not cruise ship snobs. We live in south Florida and have been cruising since we were in our thirties. We adore the big ships because of all the activities and fabulous entertainment. We love Oceania, Azamara, etc.. For the itineraries they offer. Many people have never cruised on both as many times as we have, and each has its own things to offer.

 

By the way, this summer we were on the riviera on a btob. The first part was wonderful. The second part was highly discounted at the last minute and the people were rude and obnoxious. Yes, this can happen on any ship! Even Oceania.

 

Also, if you like transatlantic, the oasis is going this September for drydock and we can't wait to go! So anyone out there whose interested, it should be a blast.

[pacheco18]

On the money.

 

 

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