Problem with Captains Club loyalty program conversion dates

[NLH Arizona]

Orator, would have to agree with you, that this is probably not the best place to air your issues. You should call Celebrity directly and if you don't get the answer you "want", then I would go through the court system to possibly get a judgement to get you closer to that all important Zenith tier.

Edited December 18, 2013 by NLH Arizona

[Orator]

Would have to agree with you, that this is probably not the best place to air your issues. You should call Celebrity directly and if you don't get the answer you "want", then I would go through the court system to possibly get a judgement to get you closer to that all important Zenith tier.

 

Have a good life.

[NLH Arizona]

Have a good life.

You too! I hope that you get what you want/need.

[Jade13]

Are you saying some people on our cruise did not only get cards printed with Elite + but got the new benefits as well? If so you are really fueling my fire!!

 

I have no idea about Elite+ cards and benefits.

 

Apparently the conversion was/is done by the computer and was based on when the points came over. Based on this thread those (at least some?) on Century and Equinox at the time of the conversion had their points converted using the old system points x 30.

 

I started this thread and my main argument is that Celebrity is not following their own stated policy/news release. Our cruise (Azamara) started on November 9 and ended on November 25 (although my DH and I got off a day earlier).

 

The official statement was that the new system started for cruises beginning after November 25. By phone the Captain's Club Rep's argument was that I was wrong and the start date of the new program was Saturday November 23.

 

Host Andy, I saw somewhere that you suggested that I email you, which I will do.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Jade13

[Member123]

@Orator.

 

I fully understand. You didn't have to do the math for me to understand your point because I sit in the same position as you... although down a level. My cruising for this year would have converted to 240 points under the "old" system, but I will receive 120 points under the "new" system. It's the slow down that everyone, or at least the vocal majority, seemed to want to happen.

 

Frankly, you're beating a dead, dead horse. I've been through this situation twice, now. Once with Crown & Anchor when they moved the goal post on Diamond Plus further away from me, and now with Captain's Club as they've moved the goal post for Elite Plus further away from me... and made Zenith a level that I will never, ever achieve. Frankly, it would be a 20-year cruising history, doing 28 nights at sea in AQ staterooms... for me to walk onboard as Zenith. If I could even walk on board at what would be a very, very advanced age for me if I even could achieve that goal! So, of course, it's not a goal... nothing that is not achievable is a goal, right?

 

Anyway, what you're experiencing here on Cruise Critic, I feel for you. When I discussed the issues I had with Crown & Anchor, wow.... I stopped visiting Cruise Critic for almost a year! No, I didn't feel that I was being greedy and I really wanted to talk with people about my feelings. But, here's the deal... when people have been given a gift (ala, short cruises and magnanimous credit conversions for THEM), there's no room in their brain or their heart to listen to someone else's situation. The tendency is just to label, pass judgment, move on... no empathy and, therefore, no sympathy.

 

No words of wisdom here. Just a reaching out to let you know that I understand your position. There must be someone at Celebrity that is the mastermind behind the loyalty program; that someone is the person that I'd advise you to contact with a heartfelt plea for consideration. I really hope you achieve your goal(s). And that you thoroughly enjoy the process.

[k9x8]

Just wanted to vent a bit. Just watch some of vemon that follows.

 

Wow- didn't take long, eh?

I absolutely get it, and I have no dog in this fight, because I'll never reach any tier on any cruise line.

We've booked our cruises through the airline for the thousands of bonus miles we receive. Of course those miles aren't posted until the cruise is completed, but I would be most unhappy if they changed the program and took away the miles I'd already bought.

 

Maybe I don't always agree with you, but I'm most inclined to respect the opinion of the highly seasoned cruiser.

[Orator]

I appreciate the kind thoughts.

Let me just make one additional comment and then quit:

One of the great powers of Cruise Critic is that it enables a wide range of cruisers to express their opinions on a wide range of issues. Celebrity does read these boards and there's lots of eveidence that they do respond. Remember the "Break he Rules" campaign?

CelebrityCruises, an official poster representing Celebrity Cruises has frequently assisted passengers who had expressed specific issue. So we know they listen and respond. Let's pretend for a moment that the reaction to my idea of a transition peiod and counting fully paid cruises under the old system would have received large and vocal support. Would that have influenced possible change? Change that would have helped all of those who have cruised since the announcement of the program and cruising for the next few months. We are talking about some large numbers here. As one great Captain says: "Out".

[Redtravel]

Venting is good. It expresses your concerns. There have been so many people commenting on several threads. I have never seen so many responses to one thing. Good, bad or indifferent. Lots of people need to vent. I respect Celebrity's right to change the program. If they had given some advance notice....or just left well enough alone, nobody would have the need to vent. I wonder if anyone at Celebrity is paying attention to these comments. Need to vent....go for it. I am elite. ....and will be for along time or forever. I have always wondered how people manage to cruise so much. When I was working, I did not have the time. Now that I am retired, I do not have the money to cruise a lot. I have 2 cruises booked for 2014...and that will be it. Still like regular veranda or oceanview. In the new system, I think Celebrity is trying to push people to book suites. Maybe it will be attractive for some people.

[AE_Collector]

We got back a week ago from the very popular Constellation Nov 12 - Dec 09 B2B Istanbul to Rome and Rome to Fort Lauderdale TA. There were about 450 B2B passengers on the cruise.

 

We received two credits (12 days) which converted to 60 points for the first part of the B2B. Ironically the conversion happened Nov 23 and we got the points a day BEFORE the first cruise completed in Rome Nov 24.

 

My best guess was that we would receive 3 credits (15 days & Concierge)that would convert to 90 points for the second cruise as it started at least a day before the new program did. The new program supposedly started AFTER Monday Nov 25 but I think that was poor wording for what should have been "Starting November 25".

 

In any event, we were on the cruise November 24, definitely before the new program began. It took quite a few days for anything to show up on-line but when it did of course we were awarded under the new system. They have messed that up becasue we have only received 45 points for the 15 days even though we were Concierge which should have been 75 points which is still less than the 90 points I expected to receive.

 

It is obvious that it will now take substantially longer to get to the relatively mediocre rewards for Elite Status unless we are regularly in a suite which we like most others aren't. For us a Balcony has always been the "top tier" on a cruise but it isn't anymore, balcony's are just average these days.

 

I thought that Celebrity may have had an overlap period during the conversion where they just gave you which ever formula worked to your advantage but they didn't. I can even see the arguement for cruises booked and paid in full being done to the passengers advantage becasue if they automatically handled them the old way, suite passengers would complain.

 

I really thought that our second cruise would have been done on the old system since it began before the new program did. I will have to call them though becasue we have received zero additional credit for upgrading to Concierge on the second part of the trip and the extra credit for Concierge was definitely a factor in us doing that upgrade along with being able to snag an Aft Cabin.

 

Terry

Edited December 18, 2013 by AE_Collector

[Orator]

I just received the promised call from an Executive at Celebrity who works in the Loyalty Program. Don't know what will result, but the conversation was productive. Shared my idea about counting cruises booked and fully paid under the old rules and offered my suggestion of a short promotion which would allow booking a cruise that would be completed witnin two months (so under final payment) that would be counted under the old system. Told that that idea hadn't been discussed, but would be discussed. Agreed that it would be a win-win for Celebrity. Don't know what will happen and not getting my hopes up, nor should you,but I'm now satisfied that my position will have a fair hearing and I will have no basis for complaint. Cannot and will not answer questions or make additional comments. I've mentioned my plan in greater detail in past comments and was attacked by some.

[NLH Arizona]

I just received the promised call from an Executive at Celebrity who works in the Loyalty Program. Don't know what will result, but the conversation was productive. Shared my idea about counting cruises booked and fully paid under the old rules and offered my suggestion of a short promotion which would allow booking a cruise that would be completed witnin two months (so under final payment) that would be counted under the old system. Told that that idea hadn't been discussed, but would be discussed. Agreed that it would be a win-win for Celebrity. Don't know what will happen and not getting my hopes up, nor should you,but I'm now satisfied that my position will have a fair hearing and I will have no basis for complaint. Cannot and will not answer questions or make additional comments. I've mentioned my plan in greater detail in past comments and was attacked by some.

So now you want Celebrity to tell all their customers who can not take a cruise in the next couple of months, because of the holidays and children back in school, or those that have booked cruises further than two months away, that they are not loyal customers, thus they won't make allowances for them as well....WOW! This is not a win win for Celebrity, this is a win for a few cruisers, like you, who are unhappy. It will, in my estimation, create more unhappy customers for Celebrity. I can't wait for the phones to light up if they happen to follow your suggestion. Time will tell!

[workingonlytocruise]

So now you want Celebrity to tell all their customers who can not take a cruise in the next couple of months, because of the holidays and children back in school, or those that have booked cruises further than two months away, that they are not loyal customers, thus they won't make allowances for them as well....WOW! This is not a win win for Celebrity, this is a win for a few cruisers, like you, who are unhappy. It will, in my estimation, create more unhappy customers for Celebrity. I can't wait for the phones to light up if they happen to follow your suggestion. Time will tell!

 

It won't happen, at least I would never surprised if it did. Celebrity is aware that Orator has been complaining on here from the get-go. So, they have now listened and I would be shocked if he gets his way because of whining on here. But and this is what Celebrity really wants, he will now stop whinging because they listened.

Edited December 18, 2013 by workingonlytocruise

[k9x8]

It won't happen, at least I would never surprised if it did. Celebrity is aware that Orator has been complaining on here from the get-go. So, they have now listened and I would be shocked if he gets his way because of whining on here. But and this is what Celebrity really wants, he will now stop whinging because they listened.

 

Seriously?

Whinging is what got the program changed. There are too many Elites ... It's too easy to achieve Eliteness ... It's not the free drinks, it's the Fellowship with Our Kind ...

 

Whinging got the smoking policy changed.

 

It seems that my complaints are valid; your complaints are about matters that don't apply to me, therefore, irrelevant and deserving only of snarkiness.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

Granted, I have not read this whole thread but we are better off under the new system in earning points to Elite + status. Our next 2 cruises will get us there. Under the old system I don't think they would.

 

Mary Lou

[NLH Arizona]

Granted, I have not read this whole thread but we are better off under the new system in earning points to Elite + status. Our next 2 cruises will get us there. Under the old system I don't think they would.

 

Mary Lou

The majority of Celebrity customers did either better (those that went to the Elite+ or Zenith new tiers) or stayed the same; no one lost anything that they already had. I think the majority of Celebrity's customers are quite pleased with the new program.

Edited December 19, 2013 by NLH Arizona

[workingonlytocruise]

Seriously?

Whinging is what got the program changed. There are too many Elites ... It's too easy to achieve Eliteness ... It's not the free drinks, it's the Fellowship with Our Kind ...

 

Whinging got the smoking policy changed.

 

It seems that my complaints are valid; your complaints are about matters that don't apply to me, therefore, irrelevant and deserving only of snarkiness.

 

A person whinging on about something he thinks makes him special is not what gets program changed. Celebrity made changes that benefited the majority however not everyone is happy so those that aren't think they should be treated "special"". In my opinion, no one is special. You earn it just the way everyone else does.

 

If you feel you lost something, well, that's the way it goes. Keep whinging - you may get a call or you may not.

[The_Big_M]

Jade:

First to answer your question: I was only talking about cruises that were fully paid. My fully paid cruises (now 5 remaining) will be completed by March 2nd.

I've taken lots of heat from some for my comments. I've been accused of being "obsessed", "selfish", in "psychological need of being a top cruiser" and more. I've attented to stick to reasons for my position and have not responded in kind o the personal attackes. The only element of truth in some of the attackes is that I did have making the top levela goal. I'm a goal oriented person and I believe that most people who are close to a new level in whatever they do would basically feel the same way.

 

For what it's worth, I think you've presented your case fairly and reasonably, and not been offensive or demanding about it.

 

I too have been surprised at some of the vitriol that has been flung by a small number of people, just because others are posting something they personally don't agree with. It appears that they are not familiar with Voltaire...

 

It's also good to hear in your subsequent post that Celebrity did reach out to you. I'm fully of the view that it's their program and they make the rules, but it still grates that they changed the rules retrospectively, let alone didn't announce the change to happen in a certain timeframe in the future. Whether allowing bookings for a certain period, or giving benefits at the rate that they were booked at, both seem to be fairer approaches, of changing the rules, but not penalising those who had booked under the old rules.

[The_Big_M]

A person whinging on about something he thinks makes him special is not what gets program changed. .

 

I didn't see him whinging about what makes him special. In fact the opposite.

 

He described a situation that disadvantaged a whole group of loyal customers - of which he is one.

[Sapper 190]

Does anyone know how the points for conversion were calculated? It doesn't seem very transparent to me. If you open the points pull down on the Sailing History, it gives you the new system not the old. It seems that the same listing might be worth 1 or 2 points for different dates. What is the basis for earning points (we never worried, we just sailed).

 

Talk about Loyalty, we actually PAID to join the Captains Club before RCCL bought the line. Our first 4 cruises on the much loved Horizon, Galaxy, Zenith netted us a total of 4 points.

 

Heads-up: Our sailing history is all wrong, we haven't bought an "inside" cabin since our very 1st cruise and C cabins are listed as Veranda. Check yours carefully.

[robtulipe]

Does anyone know how the points for conversion were calculated? It doesn't seem very transparent to me. If you open the points pull down on the Sailing History, it gives you the new system not the old. It seems that the same listing might be worth 1 or 2 points for different dates. What is the basis for earning points (we never worried, we just sailed).

 

Talk about Loyalty, we actually PAID to join the Captains Club before RCCL bought the line. Our first 4 cruises on the much loved Horizon, Galaxy, Zenith netted us a total of 4 points.

 

Heads-up: Our sailing history is all wrong, we haven't bought an "inside" cabin since our very 1st cruise and C cabins are listed as Veranda. Check yours carefully.

My and DW sailing history still shows the old cruise credits and is correct including getting the extra credit for being in a concierge cabin or higher which as you indicated a concierge is listed as being in a veranda. My history also includes the convertion on Nov.23 at 30 points per cruise credit.

With the old credit program you got an extra credit for being on a 12 night or longer cruise and another if you were in a concierge cabin or higher for a maximum possibility of three cruise credits.

Edited December 19, 2013 by robtulipe

[The_Big_M]

Does anyone know how the points for conversion were calculated? It doesn't seem very transparent to me. If you open the points pull down on the Sailing History, it gives you the new system not the old. It seems that the same listing might be worth 1 or 2 points for different dates. What is the basis for earning points (we never worried, we just sailed)..

 

Old points were converted at 30 points per old point to make your new total e.g. 10 old points = 300 new points.

 

At the top of the table you refer to above, there's a drop down arrow. If you click that you'll see the maths and conversion rules they used to get you to your new balance.

[NLH Arizona]

I just received the promised call from an Executive at Celebrity who works in the Loyalty Program. Don't know what will result, but the conversation was productive. Shared my idea about counting cruises booked and fully paid under the old rules and offered my suggestion of a short promotion which would allow booking a cruise that would be completed witnin two months (so under final payment) that would be counted under the old system. Told that that idea hadn't been discussed, but would be discussed. Agreed that it would be a win-win for Celebrity. Don't know what will happen and not getting my hopes up, nor should you,but I'm now satisfied that my position will have a fair hearing and I will have no basis for complaint. Cannot and will not answer questions or make additional comments. I've mentioned my plan in greater detail in past comments and was attacked by some.

 

Thought about your program last night and thought I would address it in another way.

 

Here are the problems, as I see them, with the program you have suggested.

 

When Celebrity changed their Captain’s Club program, the changes left the majority of their customers either in better shape (those that had enough points to be upped to the two new tiers) or left everyone in the tier that they were in prior to the changes. Celebrity was fair to the majority of their customers, even though a small amount felt that they were treated unfairly. A company tries, within their changes, to make the majority of their customers happy and unfortunately they realize that a minority will be unhappy.

 

With your suggested program, you benefiting and are making exceptions for only a few of Celebrity’s customers.

 

I think the biggest negative is for those with booked cruises which have not been paid for yet. These customers had the same expectations (read many of the posts) as those that have paid cruises had. Just because some are in the position to pay for their cruises up front, doesn’t mean that they are more loyal than those that can’t. Since Celebrity makes the rules as to when final payment is due, it would be a slap in the face to many more customers that they are not given an exception because they didn’t or can't pay for their cruise before it was due.

 

Your program would benefit those the most that:

 

**Those that are retired, self-employed or able to drop everything and cruise within the next couple of months. It pretty much discounts those that have children in school, those working customers who can not just take off on a dime, etc.

 

**Those that don’t have the financial means to either pay for their cruises upfront or take additional cruises in two months. Not to mention, that people would be paying for cruises clear through 2015; some will be cancelled which would now make it a nightmare for Celebrity to keep track of all of the one offs.

 

**Those that live in Florida. Those that live in Florida can cruise without flying to a port, all others would have to pay for airfare in those two months to garner additional points. So, it would benefit those who live near a port.

 

It does exactly what many on here have complained about for years. Making it too easy for customers to become Elite by taking short cruises to work the system. A person living in Florida could take 8 or 9 short cruises in January and February, without the added expense of airfare or hotel for pre-cruise stay, garnering them 270 points. Thus this would be doing exactly what many Elites have been complaining about. As an example, one could take a cruise on January 2, 13 and 25 at the total cost for on person in an inside cabin of only $777 (receiving 3 points which would be converted to 90 points under the new system), while many of Celebrity’s customers have spent thousands on a single cruise which got them 1, 2 or 3 points (depending on cabin and length of the cruise) converting to 30, 60 or 90 points.

 

Now for the negatives to Celebrity; I'm sure there are more, but these were the ones I came up with:

 

**It would greatly increase the number of customers in each tier, something that Celebrity has shown by making in harder to get to the next tier (something that many Elites were asking for) was trying to slow down.

 

**It would upset a larger amount of their customers than your program would help. I believe that many of their customers, would see that Celebrity only gave exceptions to a small percentage of their customers, who were in a financial or geographical position to take advantage of the program.

　

For a program to be successful, it has to be a win win for the majority of all parties involved and your program only benefit’s a small portion of Celebrity’s customers, I think the majority of Celebrity’s customers would be unhappy with what you presented, which could lose Celebrity a much higher percentage of lost customers, especially those new or newer customers who feel that their loyalty has been discounted because of your suggested program's benefits were only given to a select few.

 

I realize that you feel that it is a win for a few and doesn't hurt the majorty, but if you look at all the facts, it truly hurts the majorty of Celebrity's customers, because since they can not take advantage of your proposed program, they would feel (like I'm sure the minority feels now), that Celebrity does not consider them loyal customers.

 

Now, the questions I would ask you:

 

Would you rather have the minority of your customers unhappy or the majority of your customers unhappy?

 

Why would it not be a problem now (since many Elites have complained for years that it is too easy to become Elite and that cruisers worked the system using short cruises to make Elite) for many to use the same short cruises to make Elite+ and Zenith?

 

Would you be satisfied if they made an exception for those on B2B cruises during the change, but didn't solve your issue?

Edited December 19, 2013 by NLH Arizona

[Jade13]

 

I think the biggest negative is for those with booked cruises which have not been paid for yet. These customers had the same expectations (read many of the posts) as those that have paid cruises had. Just because some are in the position to pay for their cruises up front, doesn’t mean that they are more loyal than those that can’t.

 

Or those who paid in full after the announcement. Our payment was due in full a few weeks ago for our March cruise. I thought one suggestion was that those who had cruises paid in full by November 25 should have their points for those cruises converted x 30.

 

What is you opinion on the system/conversion method used for those who were on a cruise during the conversion/announcement date?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Jade13

[NLH Arizona]

Or those who paid in full after the announcement. Our payment was due in full a few weeks ago for our March cruise.

Thank you, that is just another example.

[NLH Arizona]

What is you opinion on the system/conversion method used for those who were on a cruise during the conversion/announcement date?

As I said on the other tread, I feel that if someone was on a B2B cruise and the second leg fell after the change, their entire cruise (all legs) should be considered under the old program. They purchased their cruises as a package deal and I feel that, even though technically they are considered two cruises, they should be considered as one.