Chip and Pin Credit Card in US

[EAGLESLOVER]

All Amex cards issued in the USA to USA residents are chip and signature.

 

 

This is not true. I just got off the phone with AMEX. I asked that they issue us new Platinum cards with chip. They were happy to do so. Our current cards do not have the chip.

[MATHA531]

This is not true. I just got off the phone with AMEX. I asked that they issue us new Platinum cards with chip. They were happy to do so. Our current cards do not have the chip.

 

Correction noted. One can request an Amex card with an emv chip (although be aware, if it matterss to you that it is chip and signature, not chip and pin) on just about every amex card now. For a while, the Delta Sky Miles cards were a hold out but as of 01 May, they are now included (as well as, btw, dropping the asinine 2.7% foreign transaction fee) and can be requested with the emv chip.

 

thank you for the correction.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Barclays has now updated their Arrival Mastercard [now called Arrival Plus] with the EMV technology.

 

Their explanation has me confused, even after reading all the posts on this thread [which have been very helpful]. It came with a random PIN preassigned, but I was easily able to change this to a 4-digit PIN of my choice. That has me worried, because there is no way this new PIN was burned into the chip on the card. What Barclays told me is that I have to use it once at a staffed location in Europe to activate the new PIN, then it will work at kiosks.

 

[My assumption is that the first machine will verify my PIN via the internet, then somehow update the information on my card's chip. Somebody who knows more about this than me, please verify or correct!!!]

 

I will know later this summer whether it really works in European kiosks. ;)

[nana541]

So this means you will have no idea if your card really works in Europe until AFTER you are in Europe and if it's screwed up there is no way to fix it! What a screwed up way of doing business....

 

 

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[The Viking]

Barclays has now updated their Arrival Mastercard [now called Arrival Plus] with the EMV technology.

 

Their explanation has me confused, even after reading all the posts on this thread [which have been very helpful]. It came with a random PIN preassigned, but I was easily able to change this to a 4-digit PIN of my choice. That has me worried, because there is no way this new PIN was burned into the chip on the card. What Barclays told me is that I have to use it once at a staffed location in Europe to activate the new PIN, then it will work at kiosks.

 

[My assumption is that the first machine will verify my PIN via the internet, then somehow update the information on my card's chip. Somebody who knows more about this than me, please verify or correct!!!]

 

I will know later this summer whether it really works in European kiosks. ;)

 

Sounds strange, as all our PIN cards worked fine in Europe after we changed the PIN on line.

[Shutterbug623]

Hi - we are doing a Baltic cruise in August, and I sort of dragged my feet on the Chip and ion thing. Do you need an account at Andrews CU in order to get the GlobeTrek Visa? Also, how long does the process take? Would I even be able to get it in time? Thanks.

[MATHA531]

Hi - we are doing a Baltic cruise in August, and I sort of dragged my feet on the Chip and ion thing. Do you need an account at Andrews CU in order to get the GlobeTrek Visa? Also, how long does the process take? Would I even be able to get it in time? Thanks.

 

Perhaps. Your account can have as little as $5 in it to qualify for the card so that's not a problem. Do bear in mind, Andrews FCU credit card is not a true chip and pin card no matter what they say, it's chip and signature priority but some have reported in does work in offline pin situations.

 

You might also look at the Bank of America travel rewards card. Officially, it's chip and signature but online pin verification is a card verification method not primary but secondary. All I can tell you is that on 05 June 2014, when I arrived at CPH airport I used one of the kiosks to buy my 24 hour Copenhagen card and the kiosk asked for a pin, I entered the cash advance pin (an online pin) and voila, the pin was accepted and the ticket issued.

[LBCABob]

Perhaps. Your account can have as little as $5 in it to qualify for the card so that's not a problem. Do bear in mind, Andrews FCU credit card is not a true chip and pin card no matter what they say, it's chip and signature priority but some have reported in does work in offline pin situations.

 

You might also look at the Bank of America travel rewards card. Officially, it's chip and signature but online pin verification is a card verification method not primary but secondary. All I can tell you is that on 05 June 2014, when I arrived at CPH airport I used one of the kiosks to buy my 24 hour Copenhagen card and the kiosk asked for a pin, I entered the cash advance pin (an online pin) and voila, the pin was accepted and the ticket issued.

I happen to have both an Andrews FCU credit card and the B of A Travel Rewards card. It took about 3 weeks to get the FCU card (several steps). The one time I tried to use the FCU card in a Lisbon Metro Station ticket kiosk, without thinking I entered my usual ATM PIN & the transaction was, of course, rejected. I had forgotten the Andrews-assigned random PIN (which they previously told me CANNOT be changed since it is part of the Chip). Got my 3E ticket with coins. Laughed at myself for days. Had no need for Chip+PIN card the rest of the trip - the BofA Chip+Sign card was accepted at hotels, restaurants, etc.

 

Forgot that the BofA card came with a PIN - although the paperwork is quite clear that it is intended for cash-advance-at-ATM transactions. Have you gotten your statement, MATHA531, showing your 5 June transaction? Would be interesting to know if it appears as a purchase or cash advance. Will be at CPH next month and need to purchase a train ticket (plan to use FCU but if BofA works, so much the better).

Edited July 5, 2014 by LBCABob
minor wording change

[MATHA531]

I happen to have both an Andrews FCU credit card and the B of A Travel Rewards card. It took about 3 weeks to get the FCU card (several steps). The one time I tried to use the FCU card in a Lisbon Metro Station ticket kiosk, without thinking I entered my usual ATM PIN & the transaction was, of course, rejected. I had forgotten the Andrews-assigned random PIN (which they previously told me CANNOT be changed since it is part of the Chip). Got my 3E ticket with coins. Laughed at myself for days. Had no need for Chip+PIN card the rest of the trip - the BofA Chip+Sign card was accepted at hotels, restaurants, etc.

 

Forgot that the BofA card came with a PIN - although the paperwork is quite clear that it is intended for cash-advance-at-ATM transactions. Have you gotten your statement, MATHA531, showing your 5 June transaction? Would be interesting to know if it appears as a purchase or cash advance. Will be at CPH next month and need to purchase a train ticket (plan to use FCU but if BofA works, so much the better).

 

The purchase came through as a purchase. Just an example of how little the customer service reps know who tell people the pin is only for cash advances and if you use it the transaction becomes a cash advance. WRONG like in wrong. If it's a purchase, it's a purchase.

 

It's an online pin not a cash advance pin. Online pins for purchases are indeed listed on the cvm (card verification methods) on B of A travel rewards card. Chip and signature, of course, is priority 1. The pin will not work or be recognized at kiosks using offline pins as it is apparently not registered on the chip.

 

There is a whole discussion of pins on emv chips on the flyer talk bulletin board on an over 350 page thread on emv cards available in the USA today.

Interestingly enough, when it was first offered last year, the USAA world mastercard had offline pin, which is what is used in Europe, as #1 priority. As I noted, I had to replace the card before leaving on my recent European trip in early June and clearly since everywhere I used the card, it functioned as chip and signature. It worked although it didn't work in the kiosk at CDG when I tried to purchase an RER ticket (kiosk operated by SNCF) ticket to Gare du Nord.

 

In any event I fired off a rather nasty e-mail to USAA asking why they had changed the order of priorities on their cvm's on the emv chip. At first, naturally, the csr (customer service rep) had no clue as to what I was talking about. I was finally referred to the ceo office and some person there claimed nothing had changed, that it was the merchant's pos that determined whether a transaction was chip and pin or chip and signature. I told her she was wrong. She said she would check further. Several days later, she got back to me and told me as a business decision they had indeed changed the order of priorities for the cvm's as a business decision at the behest of mastercard and of course it wouldn't affect the card as merchants are required to honor all valid cards yada yada yada.

 

The reality is that it shouldn't really matter on transactions where a cashier is present as it is the pos terminal that determines the cvm being used and if it is chip and signature, will approve the transaction. However there are a few merchants who think their liability is compromised if they don't use a pin and take it on themselves not to complete the transaction. OTOH, the issue of unpersonneled kiosks is very muddled based on wehte the pin is onlne or offline.

 

What is evident is that the USA is not going to go chip and pin, no matter what you might read, in the near future. Visa has made it quite clear that chip and signature as far as card is present fraud is concerned is almost as good as chip and pin and for the most part they are right. They also claim that Americans tend to carry more plastic than others because of the nature of the American payment systems and that their surveys show many Americans consider it a pain to have to memorize four or five different pins when they are used to signing for purchases. (Of course the greater cost of the hardware necessary to implement chip and pin has nothing to do with it). Therefore, they are pushing for chip and signature in the USA and the American banks seem to have bought into this. Security is not the issue as American law and competitive pressures lead to no liability for fraud anyway for American consumers. And visa claims, the chip and signature cards will function 99.7% of the time but if you're in France on a Sunday afternoon and running out of gas and all the gasoline pumps are in the 0.3%, you won't be a happy camper.

[buggins0402]

Thanks Matha531! It's now beginning to sink in a bit for me after reading a few of the first pages and last pages of the Flyertalk thread. The google spread sheet they have compiled is great.

 

I'm still a little lost though - when will a transaction be treated as a cash advance - only at an ATM?

[MATHA531]

Thanks Matha531! It's now beginning to sink in a bit for me after reading a few of the first pages and last pages of the Flyertalk thread. The google spread sheet they have compiled is great.

 

I'm still a little lost though - when will a transaction be treated as a cash advance - only at an ATM?

 

Not necessarily. For example if you use your credit card at a bank. You don't have to use a pin to request cash nor do you have to use an atm. If you purchase a money order at the post office. Most financial institutions have a list of transactions you might make which would be considered cash advances and not purchases. In many cases, if you pay your taxes with a credit card, it might be considered a cash advance. Different banks have different lists. For the most part, purchases of transportation media are purchases.

[LBCABob]

Wonder what would happen if you try to use the Chip (instead of swiping) on a USA terminal? Some appear to have the necessary slot beneath the keypad. It probably isn't even active and thus not even recognize that a card has been inserted. Would be fun to try (until it creates a problem for the merchant and disables the whole mechanism).:eek:

[MATHA531]

There are many emv compliant terminals already existing in US merchants. The vast majority of them, however, have not been activatated. If you insert your card in such a terminal either nothing will happen or you'll get some kind of error messge.

 

However almost all Walmart stores have functioning emv terminals and if you swipe a card with an emv chip, most likely you will get a message to insert the card.