Suggested improvements for the dress code issues

[CruiseTobey]

Thank you all for the responses. I believe I am beginning to get a clearer picture of the issue.

 

Certain passengers label and individual as "disrespectful" because he or she has chosen not to participate in the (evidently) optional formal night theme. That being the case, it somehow spoils the illusion of "luxury" that those in formal wear want to enjoy. I get it, and I understand.

 

So it is not really a matter of respect, politeness, or manners, but a shattering of illusion that has some disgruntled. Again, I understand. But it really isn't beholden on anyone to conform to a fantasy that a passenger (or group of passengers) wishes to entertain.

 

It comes down to this: Any individual passenger has the option to dress formally on any night - no one will stop them from doing so. Would an individual in a tux (or gown) feel out of place on "casual night"? I don't know, and frankly don't care. But I afford them the right to do so even though the theme for the evening is casual. I would not feel disrespected, nor would I feel that they are shattering my enjoyment of the casual theme.

[LetsGetWet!]

I think we've made it very clear that it's disrespectful to fellow passengers who enjoy an aesthetically pleasing environment and were led to expect that there would be a formal night on the ship.

 

Just as me talking loudly next to you in the solarium while you were reading would be disrespectful, or smoking a cigar on my balcony would be disrespectful, or saving a row of chairs in the theater would be disrespectful.

Thank you all for the responses. I believe I am beginning to get a clearer picture of the issue.

 

Certain passengers label and individual as "disrespectful" because he or she has chosen not to participate in the (evidently) optional formal night theme.

 

So it is not really a matter of respect, politeness, or manners...

Exhibit A, typical...

 

"I get it, but of course you're wrong and I'm right." :rolleyes:

[Big_G]

By your definition, the nice lady pictured below was being disrespectful when she decided to sit in the front row of the bus.

 

 

That's the first time I've seen the race card played on here on Cruise Critic. Hope it's the last. :rolleyes:

[comxkid]

That's the first time I've seen the race card played on here on Cruise Critic. Hope it's the last. :rolleyes:

 

Sensitive aren't we? I just provided an example that matched his definition of a person being "disrespectful".

 

Would the woman below be a better example?

[galavant3]

Thank you all for the responses. I believe I am beginning to get a clearer picture of the issue.

 

Certain passengers label and individual as "disrespectful" because he or she has chosen not to participate in the (evidently) optional formal night theme. That being the case, it somehow spoils the illusion of "luxury" that those in formal wear want to enjoy. I get it, and I understand.

 

So it is not really a matter of respect, politeness, or manners, but a shattering of illusion that has some disgruntled. Again, I understand. But it really isn't beholden on anyone to conform to a fantasy that a passenger (or group of passengers) wishes to entertain.

 

It comes down to this: Any individual passenger has the option to dress formally on any night - no one will stop them from doing so. Would an individual in a tux (or gown) feel out of place on "casual night"? I don't know, and frankly don't care. But I afford them the right to do so even though the theme for the evening is casual. I would not feel disrespected, nor would I feel that they are shattering my enjoyment of the casual theme.

 

Wow. I think you are way over thinking this!

 

Some people just believe that when you are requested to dress a certain way, it is polite and respectful to comply. It really is as simple as that.

 

I don't care what anyone else does (and I think most feel the same way). But I do believe it is a sign of respect to comply with the request. Not just on a cruise ship but for all events.

 

I have no need to dress up and would be perfectly satisfied with casual dining every evening.

Edited February 7, 2014 by galavant3

[comxkid]

This will be my last post on this subject. All I have attempted to do is ask some of our forum mates to step outside their boxes and be open to at least exploring an alternative viewpoint and not to be so judgmental about other peoples' choices. Hopefully, some have. Sadly, some have not.

 

See you in the postings.

[jbond]

I think we've made it very clear that it's disrespectful to fellow passengers who enjoy an aesthetically pleasing environment and were led to expect that there would be a formal night on the ship.

I really enjoy the aesthetically pleasing environment in the MDR, especially on formal nights. I think they are among the most impressive dining rooms I have eaten in. However, I don't feel at all disrespected by people who dress casually on those nights. I respect their right to dress as they wish and in return I hope that they respect my right to dress as I wish. Unfortunately on CC, it appears there are factions on both sides that show disrespect for both those that choose to dress up and those that choose to go casual. Fortunately I've never met either group when cruising. RCI has it's dress code just right leave it be.

Respect is a two way street, if you don't respect other's opinions, how can you expect them to respect yours.

[jbond]

 

Some people just believe that when you are requested to dress a certain way, it is polite and respectful to comply. It really is as simple as that.

You are not requested to dress a certain way, RCI only suggests. There is a big difference between a request and a suggestion. It really is as simple as that.

[galavant3]

You are not requested to dress a certain way, RCI only suggests. There is a big difference between a request and a suggestion. It really is as simple as that.

 

I see it is a request. In fact they ask that children follow the guidelines as well.

 

We appreciate your usual parental guidance and cooperation in observing these easy guidelines with your children.

 

If I am invited to a wedding and on the invitations it says "Suggested Attire - Semi Formal", that's how I dress. For me, it takes the guess work out of it.

Edited February 7, 2014 by galavant3

[jbond]

I see it is a request. In fact they ask that children follow the guidelines as well.

 

We appreciate your usual parental guidance and cooperation in observing these easy guidelines with your children.

 

If I am invited to a wedding and on the invitations it says "Suggested Attire - Semi Formal", that's how I dress. For me, it takes the guess work out of it.

You can see it as a request, but it does say suggested guidelines. Just curious, but do you wear a jacket on smart casual evenings?

[CruiseTobey]

Wow. I think you are way over thinking this!

 

Some people just believe that when you are requested to dress a certain way, it is polite and respectful to comply. It really is as simple as that.

 

I don't care what anyone else does (and I think most feel the same way). But I do believe it is a sign of respect to comply with the request. Not just on a cruise ship but for all events.

 

I have no need to dress up and would be perfectly satisfied with casual dining every evening.

 

Galavant,

 

I appreciate your honest reply. I much prefer it to a childish, snarky one.

 

I agree that one should comply with societal norms, but should not be required to go beyond them just to appease a few that are easily offended. It seems to me that most on this board (such as myself) gravitate toward the middle of this issue; that is, one's form of dress is a personal matter and what an individual chooses to wear does not affect my cruise vacation. Others appear to be deeply offended that their fantasy is shattered by the mere sight of a polo shirt, and honestly, they should be pitied. Life is too short to let minor things detract from an otherwise pleasant experience. The way the cruise industry is heading, the sooner we come to the realization that "casual is the new norm", the sooner we can relax and enjoy the ride.

 

The bottom line is that no one is preventing another from dressing in formal attire - neither should anyone feel required to do so. RCL is evidently neutral on the matter. We should be too.

 

Thanks again for your well-put reply.

[CruiseTobey]

I really enjoy the aesthetically pleasing environment in the MDR, especially on formal nights. I think they are among the most impressive dining rooms I have eaten in. However, I don't feel at all disrespected by people who dress casually on those nights. I respect their right to dress as they wish and in return I hope that they respect my right to dress as I wish. Unfortunately on CC, it appears there are factions on both sides that show disrespect for both those that choose to dress up and those that choose to go casual. Fortunately I've never met either group when cruising. RCI has it's dress code just right leave it be.

Respect is a two way street, if you don't respect other's opinions, how can you expect them to respect yours.

 

 

Another insightful reply. Thank you.

[CruiseTobey]

I think we've made it very clear that it's disrespectful to fellow passengers who enjoy an aesthetically pleasing environment and were led to expect that there would be a formal night on the ship.

 

Is the night less formal because some are not wearing a tux or suit? If so, why?

[galavant3]

The way the cruise industry is heading, the sooner we come to the realization that "casual is the new norm", the sooner we can relax and enjoy the ride.

 

The bottom line is that no one is preventing another from dressing in formal attire - neither should anyone feel required to do so. RCL is evidently neutral on the matter. We should be too.

 

Thanks again for your well-put reply.

 

The problem as I see it is this. There are those of us that don't really feel comfortable not dressing as "suggested". There are those of us that feel completely comfortable with it.

 

Honestly, if someone is comfortable wearing jeans on formal night, I don't care and I likely wouldn't notice. I am just not that person.

 

I would love to see Royal Caribbean eliminate formal nights altogether.

 

I've said this before, but a new cruiser wouldn't really know that formal was optional by looking at the website. It is misleading and could cause them to go to more trouble and expense that they otherwise would have.

[Sherlock43031]

this horse has been crushed long ago but if folks are invited to a wedding, funeral, the corporate ball, whatever they generally comply and dress as expected. But, those folks aren't paying thousands of dollars to attend or burning vacation time. On then other hand on a cruise they are burning vacation time and spending a lot of money so why should someone else who's not paying their bill complain? RCI is a cruise line for the great unwashed.. if you need a fine dining experience you need to move up the cruise line food chain.

[jbond]

I would love to see Royal Caribbean eliminate formal nights altogether.

Why would you want that? What would that achieve?

If RCI did do that, Princess here we come.

[CruiseTobey]

Galavant and Sherlock,

 

Great posts! I'd buy you both a drink if we we're all on board right now.

[galavant3]

Why would you want that? What would that achieve?

If RCI did do that, Princess here we come.

 

Just my opinion. I've cruised on lines that have elegant casual every night and that is fine for us.

 

My husband brings a tux when there is a formal night but he is perfectly fine with a just a blazer and dress pants.

Edited February 7, 2014 by galavant3

[Big_G]

Sensitive aren't we? I just provided an example that matched his definition of a person being "disrespectful".

 

Would the woman below be a better example?

 

Not really. It's kind of over the top when you start comparing civil rights to suggested dining room attire. I'm pretty ambivalent to what others wear unless, as I said before, it ruins my appetite. :D

[Sherlock43031]

Why would you want that? What would that achieve?

If RCI did do that, Princess here we come.

 

Huh?

 

there won't be fashion police at the door.. you can dress formal every night of the cruise now it that's what floats your boat.

[LetsGetWet!]

I would love to see Royal Caribbean eliminate formal nights altogether.

 

Why would you want that? What would that achieve?

If RCI did do that, Princess here we come.

jbond, just playing devil's advocate here with you. You've stated repeatedly that you could absolutely not care what others wear, that it makes no difference to you whatsoever. If that's the case, then why on earth would you switch to Princess if RCI eliminated their published formal nights? After all, you can have 7 formal nights in a row on RCI, even if they eliminate them. All you have to do is dress formally yourself - because you don't care how anyone else dresses! Formal night is of your own making, nothing anyone else does has anything to do with it! ;)

[LetsGetWet!]

Huh?

 

there won't be fashion police at the door.. you can dress formal every night of the cruise now it that's what floats your boat.

Beat me to it!~ I think he just shot down the argument he's been trying to make all along! :D

[DrD]

Well not surprisingly, we all seem to have the same entrenched positions.

 

For the sake of argument, a few points, then I'll (try) not to keep this going.

 

1. I just can't imagine not following a suggested dress code. I was taught always better to over-dress than underdress. It's seems strange to me that others wouldn't care.

 

2. It detracts from my experience both for aesthetic reasons. It's hard to explain why, just as I can't explain why I like the ambiance of the MDR with its decorations, etc. It just seems to clash to see a very casually dressed person in such an environment.

 

 

Having said that, it's important to note that I don't think it's a huge deal and it certainly doesn't detract from my experience a lot, just a little, and I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

On a 1 - 10 scale, with 10 being the ship sinks, and 1 being they ran out of smoked salmon on the buffet, I'd rate casually dressed people on formal night at about a 1.5.

 

Because it's relatively minor, and because in many years of these debates I've never changed anyone's mind, I'll wave the white flag of surrender on this one. I am half French after all. ;)

[galavant3]

Galavant and Sherlock,

 

Great posts! I'd buy you both a drink if we we're all on board right now.

 

I wish I were on board right now! Thanks for the offer....maybe one day.

[LetsGetWet!]

Well not surprisingly, we all seem to have the same entrenched positions.

 

For the sake of argument, a few points, then I'll (try) not to keep this going.

 

1. I just can't imagine not following a suggested dress code. I was taught always better to over-dress than underdress. It's seems strange to me that others wouldn't care.

 

2. It detracts from my experience both for aesthetic reasons. It's hard to explain why, just as I can't explain why I like the ambiance of the MDR with its decorations, etc. It just seems to clash to see a very casually dressed person in such an environment.

 

 

Having said that, it's important to note that I don't think it's a huge deal and it certainly doesn't detract from my experience a lot, just a little, and I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

On a 1 - 10 scale, with 10 being the ship sinks, and 1 being they ran out of smoked salmon on the buffet, I'd rate casually dressed people on formal night at about a 1.5.

 

Because it's relatively minor, and because in many years of these debates I've never changed anyone's mind, I'll wave the white flag of surrender on this one. I am half French after all. ;)

DrD, that explains my own position quite eloquently also.

 

I started this particular thread trying to throw out what I thought was a "middle of the road" strawman that might generate discussion and get some away from those entrenched positions. I think it was successful for some, and completely unsuccessful for/with others. Oh well, in my limited time here I've seen some turn threads ugly that I thought were on topics that couldn't possibly be controversial - door decorations, anyone? LOL

 

Have a great weekend...