Suggested improvements for the dress code issues

[comxkid]

If you go to a funeral and you show up in shorts and a logo tee shirt, are you being disrespectful? After, there was no "REQUIRED" dress code stated... I'd argue you most definitely are - but I guess you'd maintain you aren't, because there was no stated REQUIRED dress. In *my* opinion, that would definitely be disrespectful - and I'll argue that anyone who claims its not is inconsiderate and ill-mannered - at best!

 

I agree with you. That would be disrepectful to the family. But honesty, they're not quite the same thing are they?

[bigque]

I promise that I'm just as polite and well-mannered in a tuxedo as I am in shorts or jeans. By your prior statements, you are inferring that those who do not dress in a manner that you feel is appropriate are not polite and do not have good manners. Can you understand why that annoys them?

 

Being polite and having good manners never goes out of style nor do they depend on what you are wearing.

 

[comxkid]

If it was simply "my beliefs" you would be absolutely correct. In this case, its not - its the published cruise line dress code, whether or not its "mandatory" or not. If you go to someone else's home and they say "we prefer you don't put your feet on the coffee table", is it fine to go ahead and do so, because although they stated their preferences, they didn't make it mandatory and that's not in line with "your beliefs" and what you might do at home??

 

Your beliefs are based on "your" interpretation of the wording in the published cruise line dress suggestions (not code).

 

And your mixing your metaphors again. RCCL never stated that they "prefer" a certain type of dress for its passengers. And to answer your question, I would never disrespect another person's property. Someone wearing jeans and a polo is not disrespecting your property.

Edited February 6, 2014 by comxkid

[LetsGetWet!]

I agree with you. That would be disrepectful to the family. But honesty, they're not quite the same thing are they?

Its certainly a valid comparison. Its an event, where there's no mandatory dress code. So, to quote you, "why should it matter at all to you what I wear, just because its different than what you choose to wear?" Why is that disrespectful in that case? Heck, they didn't even put out a "suggested" dress code with the funeral announcements...

[DrD]

I promise that I'm just as polite and well-mannered in a tuxedo as I am in shorts or jeans. By your prior statements, you are inferring that those who do not dress in a manner that you feel is appropriate are not polite and do not have good manners. Can you understand why that annoys them?

 

Being polite and having good manners never goes out of style nor do they depend on what you are wearing.

 

Not dressing to the recommended level, especially when you well know it bothers people, is not polite. Period.

 

I agree though that this is but one aspect of politeness, and I'd rather sit with a casually dressed but otherwise polite person than a well-dressed boor.

 

Kind of like if I forget to put down the toilet seat, it annoys the heck out of DW but she still loves me as she does not judge me solely by my performance in that area, as I make up for it in my performance in others.

Edited February 6, 2014 by DrD

[LetsGetWet!]

Your beliefs are based on "your" interpretation of the wording in the published cruise line dress suggestions (not code).

 

And your mixing your metaphors again. RCCL never stated that they "prefer" a certain type of dress for its passengers. And to answer your question, I would never disrespect another person's property. Someone wearing jeans and a polo is not disrespecting your property.

LOL, its not "my interpretation" at all, its exactly what the words say, and it IS a published dress CODE, it says so on their site, and their CEO refers to it that way - I think that's more authoritative than your opinion, isn't it?

[comxkid]

If it was simply "my beliefs" you would be absolutely correct. In this case, its not - its the published cruise line dress code, whether or not its "mandatory" or not. If you go to someone else's home and they say "we prefer you don't put your feet on the coffee table", is it fine to go ahead and do so, because although they stated their preferences, they didn't make it mandatory and that's not in line with "your beliefs" and what you might do at home??

 

We are not that different really. You and I both believe that passengers should take advantage of the opportunity to dress up and have a wonderful evening.

 

The difference is that I don't believe that I should be the one to interpret a vaguely worded policy and tell others that it's disrespectful if you don't dress this way or that. Let people live and learn when it comes to the suggested guidelines.

[TC1957]

Some people will need to be drug, kicking and screaming, into the modern world. What is considered rude and/or disrespectful changes all the time. For example, 5 years ago it was considered a horrible transgression for one to use a phone at the dinner table (text or call). Not long ago on one of the morning shows an "expert" on such things said it was now socially exceptable.

 

As for going to someone's home and not putting you feet on the furniture (table)...well, if I paid over $200 for the right to walk into their home it might make a difference. :D

[reney313]

If you go to a funeral and you show up in shorts and a logo tee shirt, are you being disrespectful? After, there was no "REQUIRED" dress code stated... I'd argue you most definitely are - but I guess you'd maintain you aren't, because there was no stated REQUIRED dress. In *my* opinion, that would definitely be disrespectful - and I'll argue that anyone who claims its not is inconsiderate and ill-mannered - at best!

 

I am always presentable and well dressed at funerals. That said, honestly, I can barely remember what I wore at my husband's funeral. I think I can speak for his parents, kids, and siblings that none of us would know what anyone else wore, even if it were jeans, shorts or other attire. We would just prefer those who loved him to be there to pay their respects, regardless of what they wore. To me it is disrespectful to care what someone chooses to wear.

 

Likewise, at my sister's wedding, my mother had the most atrocious purple dress. I thought it was tasteless and tacky. But she's our mother. We want her included. Should I say she was being disrespectful?

 

I could care less what people wear to formal night or even the other nights. I rarely see full formal gowns. I can wear one if I want and I could do that any night of the cruise. I don't like that some do not attend MDR, a complementary venue, on formal night. The notion they can "eat elsewhere" is absurd to me. Sure they can, but really....because it would ruin your atmosphere seems selfish and self centered.

[LetsGetWet!]

I agree with you. That would be disrepectful to the family. But honesty, they're not quite the same thing are they?

I'm going to make it a lot more "the same thing." You receive an invitation from friends for a "formal dinner party" and part of the invitation reads:

 

"Suggested attire for the evening: Suits and ties or tuxedos for men, cocktail dresses for women"

 

Would you show up at their door in jeans and a polo shirt and claim that you're not being disrespectful at all, that's just how you choose to dress and that should be your decision?

 

* Yes, I took the "suggested" phrasing along with the wording for the attire straight from the RCI website to provide best similarity.

Edited February 6, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[bigque]

If it was simply "my beliefs" you would be absolutely correct. In this case, its not - its the published cruise line dress code, whether or not its "mandatory" or not. If you go to someone else's home and they say "we prefer you don't put your feet on the coffee table", is it fine to go ahead and do so, because although they stated their preferences, they didn't make it mandatory and that's not in line with "your beliefs" and what you might do at home??

 

No....because if you don't follow what I "PREFER" for you to do in my house as in your example of feet on the coffee table, than I going to envoke my preference of putting you out of my house.....Why????? Because it's my house!

That is all a lot of folks have been saying, If it is going to be a "RULE", than enforce the rule! It's RCI's house and they can envoke the rules or let everyone interpret the "Suggested Wear" as they want. No one has to come up to anyone else's standards of dress to make them acceptable as polite and having proper manners! It's not about Agreeing or disagreeing, but when it comes to this subject it's....You do you and I'll do me...because at the end of the day for RCI it's about the Shareholders and what they are getting on their bottom line!

[comxkid]

LOL, its not "my interpretation" at all, its exactly what the words say, and it IS a published dress CODE, it says so on their site, and their CEO refers to it that way - I think that's more authoritative than your opinion, isn't it?

 

The actual policies per the RCCL website.

 

"Suggested guidelines for these nights are:

Casual: Sport shirts and slacks for men, sundresses or pants for women

Smart Casual: Jackets and ties for men, dresses or pantsuits for women

Formal: Suits and ties or tuxedos for men, cocktail dresses for women"

 

It goes on to say...

 

"For formal nights you'll need cocktail dresses for women, suits and ties - or tuxedos - for men. And for the smart casual nights bring dresses or pantsuit for women, jackets for men."

 

Then this...

 

"Remember, shorts, T-shirts, and bathing suits are not considered appropriate attire in the dining rooms at dinner."

 

And finally this....

 

"Onshore attire...

You'll need comfortable walking shoes, as well as a hat and sunscreen for protection from the sun."

 

The word "code" is nowhere to be seen. In this case, I believe the word "need" refers to a suggestion from the company, not a requirement.

 

The Blog that you referenced about the CEO was his response to a question from a past cruiser who referenced the "code" in their question. I believe he provided a vague answer using terminology that was offered by the questioner.

 

Regarding my opinion, I already shared with you that I believe passengers should take advantage of the opportunity to dress up. I'm just not going to tell them that they have to.

Edited February 6, 2014 by comxkid

[bouhunter]

These dress threads get so funny so fast.:D . It always astounds me how much energy and passion is devoted to a debate that will never be resolved.

 

Stay tuned for same debate again on a new thread next week, and the week after, and the week after.......:rolleyes:

 

You go people!!

Edited February 6, 2014 by bouhunter

[booze brothers]

I can't be the only one. . . I don't care what anyone wears.

 

agree !

[PSCruiser]

Some people will need to be drug, kicking and screaming, into the modern world. What is considered rude and/or disrespectful changes all the time. For example, 5 years ago it was considered a horrible transgression for one to use a phone at the dinner table (text or call). Not long ago on one of the morning shows an "expert" on such things said it was now socially exceptable.

 

 

Guess I'll be kicking and screaming. The phone thing is just another example of attitudes that its all about ME. Its disrespectful to others at the table - maybe this can launch 100 or so posts about how could it possibly be disrespectful!!??

[DrD]

Look, it's simple, to me.

 

To answer the question "why should I dress up just to please you?"

 

The answer is "so I will follow your customs and rules that you care about."

 

I won't smoke a cigar on my balcony, I will continue to supervise my children and remind them to be quiet and polite, I will not reserve deck chairs, etc.

 

Yes I know there are differences of degrees and harms in different behaviors etc but it's hard for most to tease out the subtle differences.

 

Obviously I'm not going to follow someone who isn't dressed and sic my kids on them but the point is we can either live in a society in which we respect each other's customs, values, and desires, or one in which we are all free to do what we want regardless. In general I feel society is going to far in the latter direction, and there are repercussions far beyond the number of people dressing up for dinner on a cruise.

 

I'm far from perfect, but in general I do my best to avoid things that annoy people even when I don't agree with the philosophy behind the custom, and I would hope you would do the same to me.

 

Is it a big deal? No. But interesting to discuss I think.

Edited February 6, 2014 by DrD

[DrD]

These dress threads get so funny so fast.:D . It always astounds me how much energy and passion is devoted to a debate that will never be resolved.

 

Stay tuned for same debate again on a new thread next week, and the week after, and the week after.......:rolleyes:

 

You go people!!

 

It's something to do at lunch. I enjoy debating/discussing, and it's interesting to see how the arguments have changed, or not, in the years that's I've been seeing threads like this.

 

In this case it's not changed at all. I'm thinking of creating a doc from which I can cut and paste my thoughts for next time.

[comxkid]

I'm going to make it a lot more "the same thing." You receive an invitation from friends for a "formal dinner party" and part of the invitation reads:

 

"Suggested attire for the evening: Suits and ties or tuxedos for men, cocktail dresses for women"

 

Would you show up at their door in jeans and a polo shirt and claim that you're not being disrespectful at all, that's just how you choose to dress and that should be your decision?

 

* Yes, I took the "suggested" phrasing along with the wording for the attire straight from the RCI website to provide best similarity.

 

I will happily answer. All of the formal dinner invitations that I have received typically state that black tie is "required" or that the dress "code" is jacket and tie. So I would dress as required. The invitations generally leave out the word "suggested" due to it vague interpretation.

[jbond]

Sorry, but to me sweats, shorts, tshirts and ballcaps in the MDR qualifies as ragged, by definition.

By definition? Not according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

 

rag·ged adjective \ˈra-gəd\

: having an edge or surface that is not straight or even

 

: in bad condition especially because of being torn

 

: wearing clothes that are torn and in poor condition

 

No mention of shorts, sweats, jeans and baseball caps.

[CruiseTobey]

What I don't understand, and what continues to puzzle me, is why ANY passenger cares what another person is wearing? If you want to wear a tux (or gown, as the case may be) be my guest! No one is preventing you from doing so.

 

Why are some (are you listening Wet?) so adamant that others join in on their fun of dressing up on formal night? As clearly evidenced by their actions, RCL and their staff do not care if you participate in formal night or not. Since it is not enforced, it is therefore OPTIONAL. Why does this bother any passenger? What is it, really, that irks them so? It is not their business, nor their responsibility to police others nor to enforce their opinion.

 

The days of formal night on RCL are quickly dwindling. Accept it or move on to another cruise line.

 

This poor horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp. Close this thread.

[TC1957]

Look, it's simple, to me.

 

To answer the question "why should I dress up just to please you?"

 

The answer is "so I will follow your customs and rules that you care about." I don't care if you follow them or not, they are MY customs and rules...not yours

 

I won't smoke a cigar on my balcony, I will continue to supervise my children and remind them to be quiet and polite, I will not reserve deck chairs, etc. I believe all these you mentioned are strictly prohibited by RCI. That means they are RULES...not suggestions.

 

Yes I know there are differences of degrees and harms in different behaviors etc but it's hard for most to tease out the subtle differences.

 

Obviously I'm not going to follow someone who isn't dressed and sic my kids on them but the point is we can either live in a society in which we respect each other's customs, values, and desires, or one in which we are all free to do what we want regardless. In general I feel society is going to far in the latter direction, and there are repercussions far beyond the number of people dressing up for dinner on a cruise.

 

I'm far from perfect, but in general I do my best to avoid things that annoy people even when I don't agree with the philosophy behind the custom, and I would hope you would do the same to me.

 

Is it a big deal? No. But interesting to discuss I think.

 

There is a huge difference between asking someone to respect your customs and asking them to adhere to your customs. It is the same as people, related to many social issues, saying "You need to change your position and be more tolerant." Excuse me, tolerance is a two-way street. What about YOU being tolerant of ME and respecting ME.

 

Besides...there is absolutely nothing I can do that can possibly make anyone annoyed, angry, or feel a certain way. It is how they CHOOSE to react to what I do or say that makes them feel they way they feel.

[DrD]

By definition? Not according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

 

rag·ged adjective \ˈra-gəd\

: having an edge or surface that is not straight or even

 

: in bad condition especially because of being torn

 

: wearing clothes that are torn and in poor condition

 

No mention of shorts, sweats, jeans and baseball caps.

 

You forgot to hit the expand button at dictionary.com.

 

The next one in the list is:

 

 

6. in a wild or neglected state: a ragged garden.

 

Generally this type of dress is considered "neglected" in that the person neglects their appearance or neglects to change.

 

To look at neglect:

 

 

1. to pay no attention or too little attention to; disregard or slight: The public neglected his genius for many years.

2. to be remiss in the care or treatment of: to neglect one's family; to neglect one's appearance.

3. to omit, through indifference or carelessness: to neglect to reply to an invitation.

4. to fail to carry out or perform (orders, duties, etc.): to neglect the household chores.

5. to fail to take or use: to neglect no precaution.

 

Your move, Bond ;)

[DrD]

 

Besides...there is absolutely nothing I can do that can possibly make anyone annoyed, angry, or feel a certain way. It is how they CHOOSE to react to what I do or say that makes them feel they way they feel.

 

Well that's very Zen. I'll try to remember that if I'm ever beaten up or robbed.

[comxkid]

Look, it's simple, to me.

 

To answer the question "why should I dress up just to please you?"

 

The answer is "so I will follow your customs and rules that you care about."

 

I won't smoke a cigar on my balcony, I will continue to supervise my children and remind them to be quiet and polite, I will not reserve deck chairs, etc.

 

Yes I know there are differences of degrees and harms in different behaviors etc but it's hard for most to tease out the subtle differences.

 

Obviously I'm not going to follow someone who isn't dressed and sic my kids on them but the point is we can either live in a society in which we respect each other's customs, values, and desires, or one in which we are all free to do what we want regardless. In general I feel society is going to far in the latter direction, and there are repercussions far beyond the number of people dressing up for dinner on a cruise.

 

I'm far from perfect, but in general I do my best to avoid things that annoy people even when I don't agree with the philosophy behind the custom, and I would hope you would do the same to me.

 

Is it a big deal? No. But interesting to discuss I think.

 

DrD,

 

I understand your point and generally live by those guidelines. But should we routinely ask one group of people to do something to please another group of people on something as insignificant as this? Why is it group #1's responsibility alter its behavior to please group #2?. Is Group #2 more important in some way? You can be annoyed only if you allow yourself to be annoyed.

[Big_G]

I can't be the only one. . . I don't care what anyone wears.

 

I'm with you as long as it doesn't ruin my appetite. :D It's a good thing no one takes these proper attire threads seriously...right? :rolleyes: