Another sexual assault reported - Carnival Victory

[mzloolue]

True. And we also have to stop women from crying rape when it's consensual and then they have regrets later. Not saying that's what happened here, but you never know.

 

Come on.

 

Do we think she sneaked her way into the crew area and forced some males to assault her?

 

This does not look good for Carnival.

 

I do not like the idea that crew members are looking over passengers for potential victims.

Totally creepy.

I know there are creepy people everywhere.

And passengers often seem to have the erroneous idea that everything is totally safe on a cruise ship.

 

I do know that on a cruise several years ago DH and I repeatedly saw a white suit involved with a girl in an especially dark area of the deck.

We saw them on several nights.

It was odd to us and definitely not quite right.

We thought maybe it was his sweetheart and a crew member,

But we hoped that it was not someone's teenage daughter.

[fuddrules]

I am sure she did not agree to be gang raped.

 

 

 

You seem awfully sure that this is the case. I have more faith in the FBI than I do internet posters or even local law enforcement.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

Edited February 23, 2014 by fuddrules

[Homosassa]

She can't remember how she got down to the crew quarters, but was aware enough to claim she said no? There's a big disconnect right there.

[Oppalopa]

You seem awfully sure that this is the case. I have more faith in the FBI than I do internet posters or even local law enforcement.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

Did you read the articles???? 4 men do you actually think she agreed to that???? 150 cases reported since 2010???? How many were unreported do you think?

[rescue911chick]

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2014/02/articles/rape-1/passenger-alleges-2-crew-members-raped-her-on-carnival-victory/

 

http://www.insideedition.com/investigative/7834-inside-edition-investigates-alleged-sexual-assault-on-cruise-ship

 

Sounds fishy to me. Doesn't remember how she got to the crew's quarters but can say with certainty it was not consensual? How does she remember saying no if she doesn't remember getting there? I'm NOT blaming the victim, NOBODY deserves to be assaulted regardless of what state of mind they are in. I'm just saying things don't add up with this particular story.

 

Grown adults need to remember they are ultimately responsible for their own safety & well being when they are traveling. If you are going to drink yourself into an oblivion don't do it alone and don't blame the cruise line for serving you alcohol when you're the one signing off on the sales receipts for it. I don't understand why anyone would "get wasted" in an environment they aren't familiar with, there are just too many things that can go wrong.

[deborahjo]

Another alcohol incident.

 

No it was not alcohol related on Hal. Woman supposedly insulted the man when he was delivering room service to her. He sought her out and wound up trying to Kill her.

 

These alcohol cases just get to me. If YOU as a passenger cannot control YOUR drinking that is your problem. No one deserves to be raped but please lets understand the how things really happen.

[firemanbobswife]

Come on.

 

 

 

Do we think she sneaked her way into the crew area and forced some males to assault her?

 

 

No, but I think she snuck down there to party and one thing lead to another. Either she was a willing participant, or she wasn't. No matter how you slice it, being that she "can't remember" certain things, then I can't believe what she says with 100% certainty. Innocent until proven guilty, and there is plenty of reasonable doubt in this story. The only thing that seems to be accurate is that she had sex with one or more men.

 

Sounds to me like she realized afterward what she did was wrong and had immediate regrets. What better way to make yourself feel better than to get some cash?!

[mzloolue]

No, but I think she snuck down there to party and one thing lead to another. Either she was a willing participant, or she wasn't. No matter how you slice it, being that she "can't remember" certain things, then I can't believe what she says with 100% certainty. Innocent until proven guilty, and there is plenty of reasonable doubt in this story. The only thing that seems to be accurate is that she had sex with one or more men.

 

Sounds to me like she realized afterward what she did was wrong and had immediate regrets. What better way to make yourself feel better than to get some cash?!

 

It sounds to me like Carnival needs to do some housecleaning and some re-education.

 

But for me the simple fact that she was in the crew area, which is supposed to be strictly forbidden, increases my belief that she is indeed the victim.

What other reason would the employees have to take a girl into an area that is forbidden except that they planned to have something happen that should not happen?

 

And yeah, I think she has some recompense coming.

Carnival failed here.

If you don't have your dogs on a leash, then you pay when someone gets hurt.

Edited February 23, 2014 by mzloolue

[Pine Bluff]

I'm just going to point out that the first link is to a website that is operated by a lawyer who makes his living pursuing cases against cruiselines. He typically posts anything that puts the cruiselines in a bad light. And frequently brings up "old" cases.

 

Not saying that this situation didn't happen, just pointing out that some people like to sue anyone they can.

 

So? I would rather be informed than ignorant.

 

I came into this thread hoping to find no one defending the perp, and I'm sad to see that I was wrong.

[firemanbobswife]

It sounds to me like Carnival needs to do some housecleaning and some re-education.

 

 

 

But for me the simple fact that she was in the crew area, which is supposed to be strictly forbidden, increases my belief that she is indeed the victim.

 

What other reason would the employees have to take a girl into an area that is forbidden except that they planned to have something happen that should not happen?

 

 

 

And yeah, I think she has some recompense coming.

 

Carnival failed here.

 

If you don't have your dogs on a leash, then you pay when someone gets hurt.

 

 

She should have never been allowed there and the crew members should be dealt with accordingly for that.

 

Being that she went into the crew members' area where she knew she didn't belong doesn't mean she's the victim. It means she willingly went there. That is all. I'm sure she didn't think they were going to do some knitting or needlepoint!

Edited February 23, 2014 by firemanbobswife

[Cruzin-K]

That is right never blame the victim. How do you know they didn't put a drug in her drink? I am sure she did not agree to be gang raped.

 

I think you quoted the wrong post. The article I linked to was related to a completely different incident, no gang rape involved and the perpetrator didn't appear to have been around when she got drunk.

[fuddrules]

Did you read the articles???? 4 men do you actually think she agreed to that???? 150 cases reported since 2010???? How many were unreported do you think?

 

Yes I read it. FBI also investigated.

 

I have no idea if 4 men raped her. None at all. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.

 

150 reported cases doesn't sound like a lot to me compared to a regular police blotter since 2010.

 

I know there are rape cases not reported. I know there are raped cases reported that aren't rape.

 

Where this issue is...I have no idea. Neither do you.

[hftmrock]

while this is a horrific situation if what the woman said is true, the fact of the matter is that these cruise employees are innocent until proven guilty.

 

I am sure there is a lot that we don't know about in this and we cant speculate. all we know is the woman says she was raped but admits she remembers nothing. If she was drinking so much that she doesn't remember, its possible she agreed and they went along with it. At that point, the only thing the employees did wrong was using poor judgement on a women that was intoxicated. If it was rape every time a woman had sex with a guy after drinking at a bar, there would be hundreds or thousands of rapes a day in this country.

 

I hope the woman was not raped. It is probably one of the most heinous things one can do to another but the facts remain that they are innocent in the eyes of the law and we don't know what happened.

[mzloolue]

while this is a horrific situation if what the woman said is true, the fact of the matter is that these cruise employees are innocent until proven guilty.

 

I am sure there is a lot that we don't know about in this and we cant speculate. all we know is the woman says she was raped but admits she remembers nothing. If she was drinking so much that she doesn't remember, its possible she agreed and they went along with it. At that point, the only thing the employees did wrong was using poor judgement on a women that was intoxicated. If it was rape every time a woman had sex with a guy after drinking at a bar, there would be hundreds or thousands of rapes a day in this country.

 

I hope the woman was not raped. It is probably one of the most heinous things one can do to another but the facts remain that they are innocent in the eyes of the law and we don't know what happened.

 

Which is a lot different from blaming the victim.

 

It makes me sad to see in this day and age that people are still blaming the victim.

[firemanbobswife]

Which is a lot different from blaming the victim.

 

 

 

It makes me sad to see in this day and age that people are still blaming the victim.

 

 

And it seems like in this case, there is no victim as per the investigation.

[awhcruiser]

Maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should teach men not to rape women regardless of what state of mind they're in. Whether they're black out drunk let completely sober, they have no right to sexually assault anyone.

 

Where is the like button?

[hftmrock]

Maybe instead of blaming the victim, we should teach men not to rape women regardless of what state of mind they're in. Whether they're black out drunk let completely sober, they have no right to sexually assault anyone.

 

I agree 100%. that is great advice but I am not sure what it has to do with this thread since there is no evidence that a rape occurred.

 

Not going to blame the victim at all... also not going to assume something allegedly happened and crucify the suspects (in this case the cruise employees) without evidence.

[Mysticks1]

 

1. Don't ever put yourself in a situation where there are multiple men and you are the only female.

 

2. Drinking is fine. But not to excess that you can not make you own decisions.

 

3. Never drink anything that was not handed to you by the bartender and do not leave your drink unattended.

 

I agree these are good points and a reminder to everyone for everywhere and not just on a cruise ship. I agree with others that there are some things that don't quite add up and that since she doesn't quite remember everything we don't know exactly what happened. It could have been she was fully aware of the situation, went to a crew party with them and then regretted it and cried rape afterwards. She could have been drugged or just too drunk to care and was taken advantage of. If she was in a crew area then the crew involved are partially if not fully responsible for what happened to her even if it was with her consent.

 

Everyone should look out for those that you are cruising with and make sure they are not put in situations like this while keeping yourselves safe.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Mysticks1

[larkz]

Being victimized (assuming it may have actually happened, notwithstanding the refusal of authorities to prosecute) doesn't doesn't preclude the fact that the person who's making the charge acted like a blithering idiot. Getting wasted in public is sickeningly stupid, and inexcusable.

 

Yes, of course, "no" means "no" and there is never a justification for rape or violent crime, but in the real world there is no free pass for lack of self-preservation.