The effects of Jade missing out the stop in Tunis

[old nutter]

The episode when some Jade passengers were not able to get off the Jade in Tunis because of the last minute removal of a non-visa dispensation for them created a lot of steam at the time. The NCL reaction to cross Tunis off any more Western European itineraries because of this inter-country border dispute certainly seemed a bit extreme bearing in mind that the ship had only done one cruise since spending a month on charter to a country that is hardly at the forefront of Human Rights or even national rights in some cases! However, why have a PR organisation if you do not use it to get out of sticky situations with some degree of positive spin at least. The decision was made and that was that. It affected only two cruises in the short term, one almost immediately and the other with a few weeks between, so what were those affects for the 4,500 plus NCL customers affected by that decision?

 

The first and most obvious affect was the loss of a port stop that was at the top of the list for some because it was not one that appears very often on any cruises. Some may have lost money from not being able to reclaim private tours at worst or just had credit card credits to get back from Tunis trips paid in advance. Those two cruises were/are very port intensive and moving the sea day to a day later unbalanced the timetable for a rest day a little later for some of us older folk - good job I have been to Palma a lot so could spend that day quietly on the ship! The sea day change created by adding the stop in Palma also moved the stop in Cagliari from Saturday to Sunday, so that also meant changes and refunds for some who had booked private trips for the Saturday.

 

By far the most significant effect for everyone was created by the somewhat strange EU law that says that any cruise that does not have any stop outside of the EU has to levy VAT on all goods bought on the ship for the entire cruise at the rate of the country of the port of embarkation - in this case Italy, where such VAT is charged at 22%. Because Jade was no longer planning to go to Tunis which is outside of the EU, the cruise became a closed-loop EU cruise and the 22% VAT had to be levied on all goods bought on the ship in Gift shops, Spa shop and Photo Gallery etc - bars and speciality cover charges were not affected. Non-EU passengers could apparently re-claim some of the VAT if they bought over around $200 worth of stuff in one day at the same shop via a company called "Global Blue" who will do all of the work to get the VAT back for you for anything between 30 and 40% commission. Effectively, this last-minute itinerary change meant that NCL customers on those Jade cruises now had to face an increase of almost a fifth in the cost of what they spent on the shops for tee shirts, fridge magnets, watches, spa creams and jewellery simply because of that decision to remove the Tunis stop from the two cruises concerned.

 

Was the cruise worth it - you bet it was - great ship, still with a fantastic crew and a superb wide range of port stops. It was just a shame that the Tunis incident happened and that someone in NCL who probably had no idea just how much the rapid and extreme reaction to it would affect their other customers jumped to do something they obviously thought was a good idea at the time. Never mind, at least the Italian treasury gained some much needed extra cash and Global Blue may have gained a few more dollars in commission if any non-Europeans had to buy expensive presents on the ship.....

[LrgPizza]

I found all that really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[KweezyCruiser]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2006432&highlight=tunis

[LrgPizza]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2006432&highlight=tunis

Why did you post that link? It does not provide the same information as the OP did above. Maybe I overlooked first hand passenger accounts, but I don't think so. It appeared to just be people giving their opinions and sharing news stories.

Edited April 3, 2014 by LrgPizza

[KweezyCruiser]

I just think it gives a better explanation than offered by the OP for the dropping of Tunis, as well as a reminder that there is a potential other non EU port under consideration.

[Demonyte]

While the ship has a pre-planned itinerary, the passenger ticket contract does not entitle one to actually get off the ship to any of the ports listed in the itinerary. Ports can be left out for several other reasons too, if somebody purchases non-refundable third-party excursions, that is why insurances are for.

 

And while you might think that it's ok to discriminate some passengers and that shouldn't have any effect to your trip, I for one applaud NCL's decision - especially if they were among the only few cruise lines even calling in Tunis.

 

What comes to cruise unexpectedly becoming a closed-loop cruise and having to charge VAT, that is unfortunate (I would be miffed too) but nobody is forced to purchase any souvenirs from the ship's store - it is their own choice.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Demonyte

[LrgPizza]

I just think it gives a better explanation than offered by the OP for the dropping of Tunis, as well as a reminder that there is a potential other non EU port under consideration.

Perhaps the OP didn't want to rehash the information that was already provided ad nauseam. But that's okay, plenty here will fill in the blanks. :rolleyes:

[SteveH2508]

More importantly - the closed-loop aspect would knock out the duty-free booze and baccy!:eek:

[KweezyCruiser]

And while you might think that it's ok to discriminate some passengers and that shouldn't have any effect to your trip, I for one applaud NCL's decision - especially if they were among the only few cruise lines even calling in Tunis.

 

Thank you.

[mypleasure]

More importantly - the closed-loop aspect would knock out the duty-free booze and baccy!:eek:

 

We are booked to go in November. The loss of Tunis was a big knock for us as we want to visit there but not on a 2 week package holiday. We only wanted Carthage for the archaeology

 

The bigger blow for me is what you just said and the addition of the VAT. I will not be purchasing much on board at all in light of this news and it is no putting me to 50/50 on cancelling.

 

Pros: Sailing with a couple of friends, cancel and do South America next winter with the money saved

 

Cons: Weather, VAT, No duty free, No Tunis

[hawkeyetlse]

Thank you for this update, old nutter.

 

I am surprised that VAT wasn't charged on bar drinks. Happy for everyone on board, but surprised.

[isdoo]

This VAT is not an EU rule, it is a rule by Italy and Spain's governments. Italy does not add VAT for drinks, but Spain does.

 

This is why cruise lines have a non EU port quite often.

 

It would not surprise me if NCL try and put in an alternative port for this reason.

 

If they elect not to, then I suspect many will not purchase items on-board which will affect the spa etc.,

 

The alternative is to reduce the net price of items to include the VAT.

Edited April 4, 2014 by isdoo

[old nutter]

VAT in the EU is a bit like the local taxes in the US. The imposition of it is EU wide, but both the percentage rates and what they are charged on are decided by each individual country, hence that difference between Spain and Italy. The rates can also be different for different for different things in a country as well!! For instance in the UK there is no VAT charged on uncooked food but it is charged if the same food is heated and served ready to eat. Sounds complicated because it is. These tax things are always going to be complicated in a federal system of historical countries.

[Cretia]

This VAT is not an EU rule, it is a rule by Italy and Spain's governments. Italy does not add VAT for drinks, but Spain does.

 

This is why cruise lines have a non EU port quite often.

 

It would not surprise me if NCL try and put in an alternative port for this reason.

 

If they elect not to, then I suspect many will not purchase items on-board which will affect the spa etc.,

 

The alternative is to reduce the net price of items to include the VAT.

 

Thanks for the explanation of the Italy vs Spain VAT. I was wondering why alcohol (food too, but drinks particularly baffled me) wasn't included. Could you (or anyone) explain how or why or when each VAT holds? Would we always be under Italy's version onboard the Jade, since the trip begins and ends in Italy, even though it stops in Monaco, France and Spain? How about the impact of international waters? Or do the cruises never get far enough offshore to be in international waters?

 

I'm terribly confused as to how it all works.

 

Add me to the list of people who will not purchase things on board with the situation as it is. I support NCL's decision to drop Tunis as a port, but I'm not going to the spa like I had planned if there's a 22% tax added on.

[jkgourmet]

Interesting thread. Thanks for posting the information.

 

We were on the last cruise that stopped in Tunis prior to the one month charter for the Olympics. I would estimate at least one half of passengers did not disembark in Tunis. Everyone that we met who did visit the port did a NCL excursion, reminding us again why we never book ship excursions (aka BS shopping tours). MANY complaints.

 

I completely agree with NCL's decision to discontinue this port stop after the Israeli passengers were denied entrance. Good PR move by NCL and the right thing to do.

 

But I also get the OP's polite reference to the hypocrisy of the Tunis decision considering their charter with a Russian company for hotel rooms for the Olympics.

 

NCL has a long and visible history of supporting gay rights and the gay community. I wonder how that community feels about NCL getting in bed with the Russians?

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Forums mobile app

[cpj]

First of all I don't why anyone would want to go there. The place is a rathole just like most countries in that area of the world.

[$hip$hape]

First of all I don't why anyone would want to go there. The place is a rathole just like most countries in that area of the world.

 

Speaking of ratholes, I saw the movie Gummo.

Just like the kids of Xenia, Ohio, Tunisians are having trouble adjusting.

 

I wanted to see Tunisia for myself.

[isdoo]

Thanks for the explanation of the Italy vs Spain VAT. I was wondering why alcohol (food too, but drinks particularly baffled me) wasn't included. Could you (or anyone) explain how or why or when each VAT holds? Would we always be under Italy's version onboard the Jade, since the trip begins and ends in Italy, even though it stops in Monaco, France and Spain? How about the impact of international waters? Or do the cruises never get far enough offshore to be in international waters?

 

I'm terribly confused as to how it all works.

 

Add me to the list of people who will not purchase things on board with the situation as it is. I support NCL's decision to drop Tunis as a port, but I'm not going to the spa like I had planned if there's a 22% tax added on.

 

The taxation is based on whether the cruise visits a country outside the EU. International waters does not come into it.

 

I am not 100% sure on your cruise as Monaco is not in the EU, so in theory you should not be subject to VAT.

 

This rule does not apply to all countries. For example the UK does not currently impose VAT on ships leaving the UK and visiting EU countries only, although there might be the 12 mile international waters coming into play. I do not recall any extra VAT though on a TA from Southampton.

 

Yes it is all confusing :)

[SteveH2508]

The taxation is based on whether the cruise visits a country outside the EU. International waters does not come into it.

 

I am not 100% sure on your cruise as Monaco is not in the EU, so in theory you should not be subject to VAT.

 

This rule does not apply to all countries. For example the UK does not currently impose VAT on ships leaving the UK and visiting EU countries only, although there might be the 12 mile international waters coming into play. I do not recall any extra VAT though on a TA from Southampton.

 

Yes it is all confusing :)

 

Monaco is within the EU VAT area.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_VAT_area

 

Gibralter and the Channel Islands (common stops for cruises ex Southampton) are not in the EU VAT area hence no VAT on the whole cruise.

 

A TA out of Southampton visits a non EU port (USA) so no VAT on the whole cruise.

[Choochala]

Thanks for all the information - confusing as it may be - bottom line is if we don't visit a non-EU country we will be paying 22% on what's purchased in the shops on board.

 

Question: Does that mean that with the 18% manditory gratuity, a trip to the spa would cost an additional 40% on top of the service charge?

 

Wow - if that's the case, I'll get my mani - pedi before I leave.

[old nutter]

First of all I don't why anyone would want to go there. The place is a rathole just like most countries in that area of the world.

I uphold your right to hold and even make such a sweeping statement. One of the reasons I travel is to broaden my mind and to try to understand a little more about the world in which I live. Nobody wants to live in squalor, ill health and hunger but people often have no choice because there is no way out of where they are. Seeing how some of the lowest standards of living affect people will often give you an idea as to why they hold the views about the rest of us that they do. Having said that, I have travelled quite a bit in East Africa and I have to say that I have met some of the most wonderful and happy people living in conditions that I would not even force a pet rat to live in. Ignoring how the rest of the world exists and pretending that they do not deserve to live as fellow humans is probably the second most frequent cause of wars across history, especially here in Europe and the Middle East where artificial boundaries between some countries have moved around every time there has been a punch-up between the two countries on either side. Better not say what the first cause is or else I will be in trouble again....

 

By seeing and understanding why things are so horrible in some places we might just be able to make them better. Ignore them and they will eventually come round and bite your rear end and you will not have the slightest idea why that happened. And cruising is probably the best way you can get around and see and meet lots of these different people in lots of different places and hear a little of their history from a local guide. You might just find that these people are fellow humans after all - they just haven't all had the opportunities you have.:)

[isdoo]

Monaco is within the EU VAT area.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_VAT_area

 

Gibralter and the Channel Islands (common stops for cruises ex Southampton) are not in the EU VAT area hence no VAT on the whole cruise.

 

A TA out of Southampton visits a non EU port (USA) so no VAT on the whole cruise.

 

Thanks - wasn't 100% sure on Monaco as it is not in the EU, but had not looked it up.

 

Totally ignored my own rules for the TA my mistake LOL

[paiagirl]

Speaking of ratholes, I saw the movie Gummo.

Just like the kids of Xenia, Ohio, Tunisians are having trouble adjusting.

 

I wanted to see Tunisia for myself.

 

Hi $hip$hape, I know how you feel. We are so fortunate to have gone there on the JADE in December, 2013 and glad that we had the opportunity. It is a place with lots of historic places that we got to see.

 

As for cpj, we have been and saw places here in the US that I would not live at. I remember we made a wrong exit not far from the White House and we were afraid for our lives when we saw the neighborhood.

 

$hip$hape, I hope that one day, you'll be able to go there. Hello to Catherine.

[cpj]

Hi $hip$hape, I know how you feel. We are so fortunate to have gone there on the JADE in December, 2013 and glad that we had the opportunity. It is a place with lots of historic places that we got to see.

 

As for cpj, we have been and saw places here in the US that I would not live at. I remember we made a wrong exit not far from the White House and we were afraid for our lives when we saw the neighborhood.

 

$hip$hape, I hope that one day, you'll be able to go there. Hello to Catherine.

 

I've been there and also to Casablanca another rat hole. Do not want to visit countries that smell the minute you get off the ship. We'll as far as Washington DC I guess you won't go back there anymore. I feel the same way about these countries. You were probably safer in Washington then in that rat hole. They don't like Americans there and Jewish people even more. I would recommend anyone going there get on some kind of organized tour. Do not go out on your own.

[Cretia]

The taxation is based on whether the cruise visits a country outside the EU. International waters does not come into it.

 

I am not 100% sure on your cruise as Monaco is not in the EU, so in theory you should not be subject to VAT.

 

This rule does not apply to all countries. For example the UK does not currently impose VAT on ships leaving the UK and visiting EU countries only, although there might be the 12 mile international waters coming into play. I do not recall any extra VAT though on a TA from Southampton.

 

Yes it is all confusing

 

Thanks to you and SteveH for the further clarification. I greatly appreciate it. It does seem unfair to the other countries that Italy benefits so disproportionately.