Sorry to Blow Off Steam or Whine about the Wine

[onlyleigh]

remember it is all about the doller and what the ship can make from us!

 

You are absolutely correct, it's all about the dollar. If someone goes to the extent of bringing five cases with them, they are either highly addicted to one wine, or are really tired of the HUGE markups on wine. Since I first posted this issue here and on two other threads I have been researching their wine packages and the wines you can order ahead of time online individually. Two of them retail for $5.99 in my local supermarket, one of them which I would drink readily on board. HOWEVER, I am not going to pay $42.50 for a bottle of regularly priced $5.99 mass produced wine. My husband likes a particular type of wine which they do not carry on board and he is supposed to drink a glass of red wine before dinner each night for his heart condition. Neither he, nor I, are big drinkers. A bottle of wine lasts us three nights usually. We are going to wait and see what HAL responds on this. I also researched what "everyone else" is doing and it is NOT industry wide as they would like us to think, nor is it avoidable by going high end. Disney has the old policy with a "reasonableness" factor. Viking River Cruises doesn't care what you bring aboard.

 

It's all about their dollar and what they can squeeze out of our wallets. I have been sailing for 30 years and I have seen the trend, it's up, up, up. The cabin costs are actually relatively stable, but the add-ons are out of sight. Another example is the photographs. Thirty years ago when they used film cameras, had big dark rooms, and the photographers worked long hours, but were paid a monthly salary, the photos were $4.95-$6.95 for the 5 x 7s. We would buy most of those taken that were decent and didn't make us look like we stepped out of a horror movie. Today in the age of digital photography which is much, much cheaper to produce, the prices are 3 or 4 times what they were and the photographers are limited to time on the dock and the hours they can work and they are now on commission. Guess who's taking the profits?

 

And, don't get me started on what they have done to the crew as they are nickel and diming them too.

 

As to the other poster, yes, I am a stockholder. Writing to the company does no good. You never receive an answer or even an acknowledgement of your letter.The corporation just forwards it to the cruise line and instead of looking at the issue and trying to solve the problem, they hide behind the steel curtains and pass it off until it gets lost. I do personally know a couple of people in the corporate office that I am in communication with on a regular basis and they do pass issues on also, but again, nothing is done at the corporate level. All corporate does is direct traffic.

 

The wine issue came up and it was sort of a last straw on this old camel's back after 30 years of seeing this type of thing happen over and over. At least for the other increases and frankly, gouging, over the years you have gotten something for your money. This time what you get is the privilege of walking your wine (your own personal property) on board after you exceed your quota for room consumption. As I said what's next?

 

And they all keep wondering why they keep losing their loyal customers and bookings are down. It's so simple and they just don't get it. When you keep sticking it to your good and loyal customers, they start shopping around for a better value. And, ultimately, the laws of competition will rule and they will lose.

 

I have had an automated response that they are looking into the issue and will get back to me. I pledge to post whatever reply they give me. In the meantime, we are discussing what to do about this and exploring other options. We will wait until the next mandatory deposit is due in early June and then will decide.

 

It would be nice if HAL would at least bring back the Guest Services phone line rather than just email. As a grand old line with a past history of elegance and refinement (I am not being sarcastic here - my grandparents sailed HAL in the 1950s), you would think that they would value their clients' loyalty enough to give them better service.

[cbr663]

Of course the wine prices on board are all about profits. The prices of every item and service that is offered is all about prices. I just don't understand why some wine drinkers feel that wine should be exempt from the profit making system.

 

Cola drinkers certainly pay a massive mark up on their drinks. That can of soda that costs about 30 cents costs the passenger $2.24, or slightly more than 700% more. Coffee that costs little more than 30 - 50 cents is sold in the Explorations Cafe north of $3.00. And that $6.00+ for a rum and coke in the bar? We all know that the cruise line costs for that drink are at most 75 cents.

 

I realize that HAL use to allow passengers to bring wine on board without charge. I also believe that that policy was very generous, as HAL did not freely allow passengers to bring other types of alcohol on board. Fair? Hardly, but wine drinkers had a long run of benefiting from the policy. One must remember that HAL is in the business of selling wine and spirits on its ships. And so, if the current policy allows HAL to keep its cabin prices low for folks who do not drink wine, then so be it. Passengers who do not consume wine should not be subsidizing your cabin prices just so you can enjoy the privilege of not purchasing wine on board.

[Aruba]

And they all keep wondering why they keep losing their loyal customers and bookings are down ...

What is the source for the claim that bookings are down?

Based on the info in CCL's annual report, passenger bookings rose 2.4% over the past 12 months, slightly less than the 2.7% increase in passenger capacity. Of course that's for the entire line, not just HAL.

I'm not taking issue with your comments about wine (in fact I agree with it), just wondering about the claim that bookings are down.

[catl331]

H-m-m-m! I guess this is the place to whine about the wine! Recently I found out that most of the restaurants around here have raised wine prices by glass (house wine) to $8. Still got a glass though! If you have exhausted trying wine on every Carnival Inc. ship then I would sell your stock and invest in Regent! You don't like the lines policy , oh well. Nothing will change. That is life. Love it or leave it!

[Aruba]

You can't invest in Regent. Apollo Management, its parent company, is still a privately held company.

[Stratheden]

Of course the wine prices on board are all about profits. The prices of every item and service that is offered is all about prices. I just don't understand why some wine drinkers feel that wine should be exempt from the profit making system.

 

Cola drinkers certainly pay a massive mark up on their drinks. That can of soda that costs about 30 cents costs the passenger $2.24, or slightly more than 700% more. Coffee that costs little more than 30 - 50 cents is sold in the Explorations Cafe north of $3.00. And that $6.00+ for a rum and coke in the bar? We all know that the cruise line costs for that drink are at most 75 cents.

 

I realize that HAL use to allow passengers to bring wine on board without charge. I also believe that that policy was very generous, as HAL did not freely allow passengers to bring other types of alcohol on board. Fair? Hardly, but wine drinkers had a long run of benefiting from the policy. One must remember that HAL is in the business of selling wine and spirits on its ships. And so, if the current policy allows HAL to keep its cabin prices low for folks who do not drink wine, then so be it. Passengers who do not consume wine should not be subsidizing your cabin prices just so you can enjoy the privilege of not purchasing wine on board.

 

I'm glad someone else doesn't drink wine. I was beginning to think we were the only ones. I cannot believe the number of posts about wine. Personally I do not care what HAL charges or doesn't charge for wine. Don't drink soda either. G&T's, V&T's, tap water, juice, tea and coffee are our vices. We can't bring a bottle of gin and a bottle of vodka onboard, so it is the wine drinkers who get the best deal and do all the whining. :)

[Aruba]

... so it is the wine drinkers who get the best deal and do all the whining.

"Get the best deal"? :confused: You'll have to explain that one.

[cbr663]

"Get the best deal"? :confused: You'll have to explain that one.

 

Wine drinkers get the best deal because in comparison to other alcohol drinkers, wine drinkers can still bring wine on board. Wine drinkers are still able to bring one bottle of wine on board each and pay a small fee for any others that they wish to bring on board. You cannot do this for any other types of alcohol.

 

If you are a passenger that enjoys an evening cocktail, for instance, you cannot bring nor can you pay to bring any type of spirits on board. You must purchase your cocktail on board. HAL does not treat all alcohol the same and makes an exemption for wine.

[sail7seas]

I don't mean to sound dismissive or flip but we have the choice to not cruise a particular cruise line or, indeed, to not cruise at all.

 

No one is forcing us to book and sail a HAL cruise.

 

[SeaBands]

more fairly. Other lines do like Princess and both are run by the same head and corporation.At least Princess will let you take more than 1 bottle on board and just charge corkage like it has done in the past. HAL is just getting too greedy.

[sail7seas]

more fairly. Other lines do like Princess and both are run by the same head and corporation.At least Princess will let you take more than 1 bottle on board and just charge corkage like it has done in the past. HAL is just getting too greedy.

 

 

HAL revised their proposed new policy just before it's implementation and we can bring one bottle per person on with no charge and more if we agree to pay a corkage fee for all additional bottles.

 

They also adjusted the policy to include the ability to bring wine aboard from ports along the way if corkage fee is paid.

 

 

[K&RCurt]

Wine drinkers get the best deal because in comparison to other alcohol drinkers, wine drinkers can still bring wine on board. Wine drinkers are still able to bring one bottle of wine on board each and pay a small fee for any others that they wish to bring on board. You cannot do this for any other types of alcohol.

 

If you are a passenger that enjoys an evening cocktail, for instance, you cannot bring nor can you pay to bring any type of spirits on board. You must purchase your cocktail on board. HAL does not treat all alcohol the same and makes an exemption for wine.

 

Indeed.

 

Beer, for instance, can not be brought on-board. The selection of available beers on HAL is appalling for someone who appreciates micro-brew and craft brewed beers and ales. Nothing available except the mass produced offerings of the huge beer conglomerates ImBev and SAB. Plus the cost is double or triple what you would pay on land for the same thing. However, you just have to realize that we are a captive audience while on the ship and be thankful that HAL at least charges less than a baseball, football, Hockey, Basketball or Soccer stadium charges for even lower quality beers.

 

I don't recall ever being forced to book a cruise or once on the ship anyone making me drink anything I didn't order. And from the perspective of the shareholders, maximizing profit while obeying all laws and regulations is the only thing of concern. That is how Capitalism works.

[alwaysfrantic]

If a bottle lasts 3 days, then the 2 you can bring onboard at no charge will carry you most of a week. With the $18 corkage fee, the $5.99 bottle will run you $24. Not awful.

Edited April 11, 2014 by alwaysfrantic

[Old Miss Flite]

Yes, but I do wonder what the rationale is behind allowing wine on board but not beer ... :( This up sets Mr Flite quite a bit too, though personally I am happy with my rioja!

[kjw869]

I don't mean to sound dismissive or flip but we have the choice to not cruise a particular cruise line or, indeed, to not cruise at all.

 

No one is forcing us to book and sail a HAL cruise.

 

 

What you said is not dismissive or flippant, it's common sense.

[George C]

I don't mean to sound dismissive or flip but we have the choice to not cruise a particular cruise line or, indeed, to not cruise at all.

 

No one is forcing us to book and sail a HAL cruise.

 

 

I agree, that is why my last vaction was a Sandals resort and next will be another cruise line

[Boytjie]

Thirty years ago when they used film cameras, had big dark rooms, and the photographers worked long hours, but were paid a monthly salary, the photos were $4.95-$6.95 for the 5 x 7s.

 

In today's money those prints would cost $11.19-$15.70.

 

What did a cabin cost 30 years ago and how much would that be in today's money?

[chrispb]

Or investigate what Azamara or others have to offer

 

Which is precisely what people who grizzle about the smoking on balconies should do - but don't!!

[Wakepatrol]

Like the villain in a B movie,that just won't die. He always rises once last time. So tiring

[IRL_Joanie]

I sat back after reading the OP and thought long and hard about this matter and the higher costs of other things on HAL that some call "Nickle and Diming to Death."

 

I for one am not a drinker (maybe one or 2 drinks per year.) I do not drink sodas, champagne, nor specialty coffees. I am a plain unflavored coffee and tap water person.

 

With that being said.... HAL COULD appease the drinkers, wine, specialty coffee and sodas, by reverting to letting passengers bring all the wines and champagne they can carry, and lower the price of sodas.

 

HOWEVER, they could also bring cruise prices up to where they SHOULD be at todays standards (cost of living increases rise annually, so why not cruising pricing?).

 

Instead of raising the cost of our cruises, they have tried to keep pace with the economy by increasing all other aspects (wine, soda, etc...)

 

Several months ago, I believe it was long time cruise critic member Bill Roddy who posted the brochures and various pricing of cruises from 1972 (or thereabouts) and what we pay now for a cruise is almost the exact same as then, more than 30 years ago.

 

HAL is a FOR PROFIT Company and is not in the business to lose money. It is in the business to keep passengers happy and if that means keeping the cruise prices the lowest they can, and keep passengers coming back because of the low fares, then far be it for me to belly ache over the small stuff. And yes, the whining about wines and such to me is small stuff. After all, why should HAL force me to pay for what you consider a must have (wine, soda, specialty coffee, etc.) when I do not use them?

 

All in all, I consider myself lucky enough to be able to cruise on HAL and thank them for what they do not charge me for!!

 

Joanie

[LindaM]

Wine drinkers get the best deal because in comparison to other alcohol drinkers, wine drinkers can still bring wine on board. Wine drinkers are still able to bring one bottle of wine on board each and pay a small fee for any others that they wish to bring on board. You cannot do this for any other types of alcohol.

 

If you are a passenger that enjoys an evening cocktail, for instance, you cannot bring nor can you pay to bring any type of spirits on board. You must purchase your cocktail on board. HAL does not treat all alcohol the same and makes an exemption for wine.

 

Wine drinkers HAD a good deal....past tense. I don't think $18 per bottle is a "small" fee for each bottle of wine. The very cheapest bottle of wine will end up costing around $25. I am not a spirits drinker most of the time, but I find those prices less onboard than wine prices. And, the wine offered for the lesser prices tastes like inexpensive box wine. You guys are getting the better deal now.

 

In the scheme of things, we can choose not to drink or chalk it up to the price of the cruise. Or, sail Carnival. I was really surprised they still don't charge a fee for bringing on wine.

[SeaBands]

If we bring 2 bottles of wine on board we don't pay corkage if drunk in cabin but will in the dining room and if we bring more we pay corkage no matter where we drink it. Not much change since we don't drink wine in our cabin.

[LMaxwell]

If we bring 2 bottles of wine on board we don't pay corkage if drunk in cabin but will in the dining room and if we bring more we pay corkage no matter where we drink it. Not much change since we don't drink wine in our cabin.

 

You don't have to drink in the cabin; pour yourself a glass and walk into any venue of your choosing, or just stroll, or sit by the pool, etc. No corkage charge in that case. If you take the bottle to a venue, yes, you may be charged corkage there.

[Mytime2014]

I don't understand people whining about prices and business practices. If you can find better, do something different. Do you stand at the door of Kroger and shout because bread is no longer 50 cents a loaf or ground beef is no longer $1/pound? or....OMG whole chicken used to be 29 cents a pound and now you're lucky if you get it for $1.29/pound. Do you suppose the cruise lines have experienced price increases in food, fuel, employment, insurance - I bet the costs they pay for liability for litigious Americans is exorbitant, repairs? Oh no - they should continue with the same services you enjoyed when you paid less than $1/gallon for gas.

 

Prices have changed, expectations have changed. People who are middle class want to enjoy cruising - its no longer just for the rich and infamous. If you want to be on "that" ship, then pay "that" price and demand those benefits.

 

Business/capitalism is not an evil thing. You are free to make your own niche in the market, but no business should be required to meet your demands and in doing so, lower their bottom line. That's why there is competition. If you don't like the company you are doing business with - it is not the only company floating.

[onlyleigh]

In today's money those prints would cost $11.19-$15.70.

 

What did a cabin cost 30 years ago and how much would that be in today's money?

 

Actually, you are right, in today's money, BUT PRODUCED BY THE OLD METHODS, those prints would be $11.19-$15.70. But TODAY's technology allows those prints including the equipment for the printing and cameras factored in costs about $1.50-$2.00.

 

As to cabin costs 30 years ago. Factor in smaller ships cost more to operate per mile and the cabin prices have been relatively stable. One of the reasons for that is when they started to raise the prices a decade or so ago, the bookings dropped so dramatically, they had to back off. The customer base simply wouldn't pay the higher prices. The overall crew salaries have not increased even at the pace of inflation or cost of living. So, when looked at that way, the increases the company has to cover in terms of increased shoreside personnel and shoreside costs, they make up for it in the extras.

 

Please, folks, don't bash me. With my cruise record I have made lots of friends over the years at the upper officer levels and this is what they tell me during long private discussions. This started for them when the companies started linking their bonuses to bottom line budgets. The company set very harsh budgets and they started cutting services to meet budget guidelines and raising the extras to make up for it, from the top down. Overall in the last 30 years the cabin prices stayed fairly stable, but the extras have gone nuts.

 

As to the reason you can't take hard liquor on. It's twofold. First, there are different shoreside laws for hard liquors and wine and beer that in order to tie up here in the states they have to abide by. Second, there has been a huge swing in the popularity of wine vs. hard liquor in the last 10 years. You see it in the stores all the time. The wine deparments are three to four times or more the size of the hard liquor sections. Thus, the hard liquor sales are down and wine sales are up. It's a market swing is all. And, the new policy is trying to push us in the direction of buying their products over buying our own.

 

The truth is that originally way back in the dark ages, you could bring whatever you wanted on board. Then, it was no hard liquor. Then, it was no beer because of the really big over consumption of beer on board. Now, it's the wine that is targeted.

 

As I said, what's next?

 

As to the PRIVILEGE of sailing HAL, I am sorry but that poster seems to feel that they are beholden to HAL for providing them a ship to vacation on. Again, I am sorry, but HAL provides a product with services, the cruise vacation. If I, as a consumer, decide to sail with them they should be glad to have me as a paying customer. Without me and millions of others like me, they would not exist. If others want to bow down to HAL for providing them a ship, be my guest, but you will ultimately be their pigeon.

 

As a very wise person said at the end of the last century, "The 21st century is going to be about service. The companies with the best service will be the ones who survive. Anyone can produce a product, it's going to be all about the after-the-sale service."

 

At least CCL was honest when they said they were limiting alcoholic beverages that could be brought aboard because of the problem of overindulgence of under 21 year olds and the admission that they could not control the issue which then posed a risk to everyone. PCL and HAL couldn't say that because their passenger demographic is older.

 

Bottom line is that when privileges are taken away it diminishes the experience. Thus, you are paying more for less.

 

The whole point of the entire post which someone else took and started as a thread, was WHAT NEXT?