Anyone refuse to tip on a cruise?

[LetsGetWet!]

I don't quite get that. If someone has a finite amount of money, how does taking some away sooner provide more to spend later?:confused:

I think that's a corollary to "how can I possibly be out of money, I still have checks in my checkbook?!?!?!" :D

[tserface]

We had this very thing happen in Grand Cayman a couple of weeks ago at the Margaritaville restaurant. There were just two of us at the table and they added 18% gratuity to the bill automatically. I typically tip 20%, but it seemed silly to add on a couple more dollars since they already did the calculation. I wonder how many "couple of dollars" they lose out on? However, I think most people still think 15% is a "good tip" so maybe they end up getting 3% more this way and, perhaps, it evens out.

 

It does take some of the joy out of the decision for me though and I think it takes something away from the experience by not allowing people to determine the reward they want to give for good service. Instead of going away feeling like the waiter was really great and I got to give them a reward for it, I kind of have a WTH? feeling.

 

I don't know if they are demonstrating lack of confidence in their staff or their customers or both. It's a sad change in paradigm from either vantage IMO.

 

I can definitely understand auto-grat for large parties at restaurants. But, for parties of 2 sitting at a bar stool it seems kind of overkill?

 

We're not going to waste money on a Margaritaville again anyway. The food wasn't that good and way overpriced and topping it off with the auto-grat just made us leave with a bad feeling.

 

Tom

 

But like a restaurant that tacks on an automatic 18% tip, incentive for giving good service(other than pride in one's work) goes away. As does my usual 20+% tip.

[Ocean Boy]

I think that's a corollary to "how can I possibly be out of money, I still have checks in my checkbook?!?!?!" :D

 

Funny!:D:D

[tserface]

You're right in that it ends up being the same amount of money, but for many people, spreading the cost out over a few months makes absorbing the cost easier. That's true for lots of things (buying a house, car, furnishings, etc.) We book a cruise almost a year out and save to pay for it.

 

We like paying for excursions and gratuities ahead of time since then our final bill is smaller. it doesn't fool us into thinking we didn't pay as much, but since we work for a living spreading out the cost makes it a little easier for us even if it is mostly psychological.

 

We just consider the prepaid gratuity as the "minimum" that we would pay if the service is average. So far, in 19 cruises, our service has always been way better than average :)

 

Tom

 

I think that's a corollary to "how can I possibly be out of money, I still have checks in my checkbook?!?!?!" :D

[BamaGuy44]

Oh really? Just how many American crew members do you run into? I'd like to hear a rough estimate out of 900-1,000 plus crew members on any given ship? And I'm the troll?

 

More than you think. As I said earlier, there were about 40 on the Disney Fantasy last year. Not a high percentage but a long way away from just the cruise director, as you theorized. I also pointed out the other part of your theory about the unions was wrong as well. US labor laws don't apply to cruise ships flying foreign flags.

 

I didn't count them but was told this by the nice young lady from New Jersey I chatted with who works in the kids clubs. She told me most of the entertainment staff for kids are from US, UK, and Australia because Disney likes them to be native English speakers.

[floridafish]

40 out of 1,000. LOL I bet you can't name ten of them. Not by name but what they did.

 

Never mind....I'd rather not embarrass you.

 

Next time don't be so quick to insult people on this board for posting legitimate opinions.

[racerxspeedy]

Just a point of interest, all the crew is paid in cash, no checks or electronic deposits.

 

Regardless - every employee receives a pay statement with a breakdown. Cash is preferred by by the majority since many employees wire money home.

 

This is common practice in many countries where banks accts are not the norm.

 

One other note - I have asked our server(s) if they get more tips with the auto system, and if the std tips are enough to please them. Both times the response was Yes. I can't assure you that this was an honest response.

 

RacerX signing out on this thread.

[BamaGuy44]

40 out of 1,000. LOL I bet you can't name ten of them. Not by name but what they did.

 

Never mind....I'd rather not embarrass you.

 

Next time don't be so quick to insult people on this board for posting legitimate opinions.

 

No insult, just pointing out blatant factual errors. When you said outside of the Cruise Director there are no Americans on cruise ships you were incorrect, that's not really debatable so I'm not sure why you're arguing.

 

I agree there aren't many, but it's not because of the unions or US labor laws, which was your original theory.

[awhcruiser]

Love this!

I don't quite get that. If someone has a finite amount of money, how does taking some away sooner provide more to spend later?:confused:

[floridafish]

No insult, just pointing out blatant factual errors. When you said outside of the Cruise Director there are no Americans on cruise ships you were incorrect, that's not really debatable so I'm not sure why you're arguing.

 

I agree there aren't many, but it's not because of the unions or US labor laws, which was your original theory.

 

You called me a troll and then went on to claim there are "plenty" of Americans working on ships. :rolleyes:

 

So you encountered 40 Americans on your last cruise?

 

What positions did 10 of them hold?

[caribbean sailor]

Yes, everyone is in agreement with this. But even if they go all Norma Rae on management, this is not likely to happen. Removing auto-tips or not tipping at all doesn't make management suffer. It makes the crew suffer. Well....maybe it will make the cruise line suffer if they have to keep paying to train and hire new staff....oh, but then they'll just increase the fares to cover that, so no worries.

 

If you are really and truly concerned about the poor crew that makes the bare minimum and has to practically kiss some peoples posteriors in order to get any kind of tip, then what you should be doing is boycotting cruising altogether. Just stop going on cruises. That will show management that you mean business.

 

 

If you want to auto tip fine with me it is your money.But i chose to tip after service,as i said before we tip who we want to.We don't need royal to use are money to pay the crew.Also i should do as i please as you should.:)

[CRUISEFAN0001]

They work really hard, they should have an increase in basic pay rather than relying on customers.

The reality is that is NOT how the service industry operates.

 

In the people business, workers get paid some form of base pay and then get gratuities for how promptly, courteously, thoroughly, politely, friendly, accurately, and diligently they do their assigned duties. It's not unique to cruising, and it's likely not going to change.

[BamaGuy44]

You called me a troll and then went on to claim there are "plenty" of Americans working on ships. :rolleyes:

 

So you encountered 40 Americans on your last cruise?

 

What positions did 10 of them hold?

 

I never called you any names or said there were "plenty", only that there were more than just CDs. I think you're mixing me up with another poster.

 

I also clearly said I didn't personally meet 40, I was told that number by an American crew member I talked to. She worked in the kids entertainment staff in the kid clubs, etc. I have no idea where the other 39 worked, but none were the CD, he was Australian :D

 

Maybe she was lying, or maybe you don't have any idea how many Americans work on these ships. I'll have to decide which of those I think is true.

 

By the way NCL's Pride of America sails the Hawaiian islands year round with an American crew

http://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=349

Edited May 28, 2014 by BamaGuy44

[rollo2000]

I have to be honest, I was very skeptical of forced gratuities as there is absolutely no incentive to give good service (been there, done that worn the hat too many times) and had expected service levels to be lower than otherwise. Boy, was I blown away, especially in the MDR where we had different waiters every night and every one was providing service like there next meal depended on it - amazing. I like many others would like it to be part of the cruise price and added into their wages - that way I wouldn't think twice of giving extra tips.

We were very unsure about paying gratuities up front,and having selected mtd ,thought maybe the service levels may suffer,but like yourself we had different waiters every night and the service was exceptional. We just think of pre paid gratuities as part of our cruise price.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[poncho1973]

You called me a troll and then went on to claim there are "plenty" of Americans working on ships. :rolleyes:

 

So you encountered 40 Americans on your last cruise?

 

What positions did 10 of them hold?

 

That was me and I didn't answer your question about how many and what positions.

 

I met a guy from Ohio on the pool deck of the Enchantment. There were two American girls in the spa. I have met several folks from Puerto Rico (SHOCK AND AWE! They are Americans, too!) over the years. I had a room steward from Guam. There have been AD and sports personnel from the US on several ships. There are American officers and American senior staff.

 

I went on the backstage tour and there were Americans in the crew of the shows... dancers, singers, stagehands, etc.

 

The real answer to your question lies in the Parade of Nations. Watch a YouTube video. They show and count the crew from various countries.

 

Your comment that NO ONE other than the CD was American is false.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Which number is bigger, 15 or 5?"

"Do owls exist?"

"Are there hats?"

-John Oliver

[ttnc4me]

Not sure what principle you're upholding here. The service provider (the cruise line) makes the same profit off your cruise whether you tip over the standard amount or not. The only people who get less would be the individual workers.

 

Certainly it's your right to tip whatever you want, I'm just not following the logic of your reasoning.

 

"Wow Mr. waiter/cabin steward, your service was fantastic! I'm a super generous tipper so normally you would be very well paid for this week, but sadly your boss already calculated my tip amount. Sucks for you."

 

:confused: Does not compute.

Not true. The cruise line has to make up the difference of tip amounts that do not meet the worker's contractual salary minimum. So, in fact if people did not tip the standard amount then it would cut into the line's profit.

 

Yes, everyone is in agreement with this. But even if they go all Norma Rae on management, this is not likely to happen. Removing auto-tips or not tipping at all doesn't make management suffer. It makes the crew suffer. Well....maybe it will make the cruise line suffer if they have to keep paying to train and hire new staff....oh, but then they'll just increase the fares to cover that, so no worries.

 

If you are really and truly concerned about the poor crew that makes the bare minimum and has to practically kiss some peoples posteriors in order to get any kind of tip, then what you should be doing is boycotting cruising altogether. Just stop going on cruises. That will show management that you mean business.

See above about making management suffer, but...

Yes, re: boycotting! The only way to show disapproval is to not cruise. How realistic is that though? I feel bad for the poor workers that get taken advantage of in their home countries for having to pay agencies an exorbitant "finders fee" for getting them the job initially. Only when governments start enforcing maritime law will the worker's conditions & the underhandedness of the cruise lines improve.

 

By the way NCL's Pride of America sails the Hawaiian islands year round with an American crew

http://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=349

....and if you read the NCL boards, there are hundreds of thousands of complaints over the years about the quality of the US staff.

 

Cruise lines thrive on hiring employees from underprivileged countries where $1k a month is equivalent to US $10k/mo. The workers are happy to stay because it's more $ than they could ever possibly make at home. Other than the cruise lines' skirting the law & unscrupulous employment agencies, it's a win-win.

[BamaGuy44]

 

....and if you read the NCL boards, there are hundreds of thousands of complaints over the years about the quality of the US staff.

 

Cruise lines thrive on hiring employees from underprivileged countries where $1k a month is equivalent to US $10k/mo. The workers are happy to stay because it's more $ than they could ever possibly make at home. Other than the cruise lines' skirting the law & unscrupulous employment agencies, it's a win-win.

 

Well there are thousands of complaints about every crew on every ship around here, but that's irrelevant to what I was saying. I was merely disputing the claim that there were no Americans working on cruise ships.

 

Obviously most of the staff on most ships are from poorer countries, and I understand the reasons behind it. Let's face it just about every product we buy is made by people in poorer countries at wages that would seem shocking to Americans, because it keeps costs down and profits up. Cruising is no different.

 

You make a good point about the cruise line making up the difference in tips, but this argument started over not tipping OVER the suggested amount, which I said only hurts the workers.

[Aquahound]

40 huh? .

 

Well, let's see. On my last few cruises, almost the entire orchestra was American, a good portion of the singers and dancers in all the various shows were American, the Latin band was American, the lounge band was American, the comedians were American, the stage hands were American, some of the spa staff was American, most of the Cruise Director staff was American, some of the IT staff were American.... Do I need to continue?

[beshears]

A few years ago, instead of having it put on my bill/credit card, I went to the Pursers/Guest Relations desk, and got envelopes instead, to put cash in. This way (there were a couple that I didn't think deserved any tip), I made sure the ones that did a good job for us, were paid.

 

This last time, I decided to leave it on the CC, but went and got envelopes, and still gave cash to a couple other people, which we thought went up/beyond their jobs.

[deliver42]

Emporer9, if took away the tips, you can expect to pay about double on the cruise. I never heard of anyone bitching about the tips like you do. Poor baby.

[33tekfan]

Technically, unless you saw the list with your own eyes, you can only confirm what someone told you. How do you know what the waiter was looking at? Did he/she show it to you?

 

Just a question... For what purpose would the waiter be "checking his list" in the MDR anyway ? If I opted out of automatic gratuities with the intent to pay in person and I felt that my waiter checked his list and adjusted his service down because he assumed I was stiffing him then that would be what I call a self fulfilling prophecy. Actually, it would make much more sense for the waiter to choose that person to treat better in order to still get a tip. The prepaid people are pretty much a guarantee.

 

This is a discussion that will obviously never be resolved. There will always be at least 2 camps and both firmly believe what they believe. I don't really care what anyone does about tip. I will do what I choose based on my own feelings. As I have said before, we have the freedom to choose and I have no right to judge. But assumptions and misinformation bother me and I like to know the truth so that I can make an honest and informed decision. So when I question comments made on this board, it is not to be confrontational, but just to try to get to the truth.

 

Amen.

[Goofyisme]

This has been a very informative thread, showing me rather quickly 2 posters who have gone on my ignore list immediately rather than going several months to discover they have nothing to say.

 

Back to the subject. I have always either tipped at the end of cruise in the olden days, or had tips taken out each day. Have never had substandard performance and the majority of the time received excellent above that required service to fulfill the job. Those who provided this type of service received something extra. Those who did just enough to meet the satisfactory mark got the recommended amount. Have never felt it necessary to reduce tips below this amount, but certainly would if the service level received called for it.

 

Going on first RCCL cruise in a couple of months and look forward to getting the same excellent service I have received elsewhere.

 

Happy sailing to all.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Goofyisme

[helpthejuggler]

Emporer9, if took away the tips, you can expect to pay about double on the cruise. I never heard of anyone bitching about the tips like you do. Poor baby.

 

Not Double..... More? certainly.

More than just the tips? Possibly.

 

How could adding say... $15 per day double the cost unless your cruise only costs $15 per day to start with.

[nellydean]

Time to increase staff wages, so they don't rely so heavily on tips. If it costs more to cruise as a result, so be it.

 

The day a waitress ran after us in Grand Central Station to demand a SECOND gratuity in addition to the generous one we had already left her, was the day we knew the world had gone nuts.

[iheartbda]

Well, let's see. On my last few cruises, almost the entire orchestra was American, a good portion of the singers and dancers in all the various shows were American, the Latin band was American, the lounge band was American, the comedians were American, the stage hands were American, some of the spa staff was American, most of the Cruise Director staff was American, some of the IT staff were American.... Do I need to continue?

Yes, lots of Americans, but.......this thread is about tipping and none of the above are part of the automatic gratuities.;):)

 

I have yet to run into an American that did the grunt work. Not saying they don't exist, just that I haven't run into any.