Single Occupancy surcharge on HAL

[Cinder Again]

I booked a trip with a CC on board, expecting to add a second person. Since I wasn't absolutely sure (and not paying for both people), they insisted it be put in the contract as a single, with the higher supplemental cost. The married Couple who were the CC's (sorry, I can't remember their names)told me I could add a person later, and my cost was "stable", but the other persons booking would be added at prevailing costs. When my travel agent checked, the cost of the trip had jumped, so had she chosen to book, my trip would have gone down a bit (based on my contract, signed aboard) because I had paid the SS, but hers would have been much higher than mine, because technically, she would be booking later. As it turned out, she didn't book so it became moot.

Like all businesses, HAL seems to feel this is profitable, but it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I always wonder if they had spare inventory and offered it to single cruisers, in mail blasts, at half the normal fare if they'd actually make more money? I find myself looking at other cruise lines that are more expensive, but have a lower SS...it would be a "wash" for me financially, but smaller ships, less mass market...

[Kenito]

Did your booking number change? It is really sounding a lot like a rebooking.

 

Presume you are referring to me... yes, the booking number changed and I called my regular PCC. That's when the fight began :p

 

Changing the booking number is easy and he said he could do it, but on the balance of my concerns... no bueno.

 

Still hanging in there. We'll cruise somewhere, sometime, one way or another!

[Kenito]

To the OP - Minor point, but if you booked on the ship during a cruise, then you booked with a Future Cruise Consultant - not a PCC. What I'm wondering about your fare is maybe the cruise prices have gone up since your original booking as a solo cruiser. It sounds to me like with a "rebooking" you are going to be charged the "current" cruise fare. Example: I booked a cruise in May for October sailing. Depending on the website I checked today (including HAL) the price for my cabin has risen between $1,000-$2,000.

 

For my situation, yes I understand the difference between a FCC and a PCC. Of course, now I am unable to deal with the FCC and am dealing with my regular PCC.

 

Re the prices... the price in the printed brochure is within $67 of what they want to charge me today pp. Prices go up, and prices go down, but rarely do we pay the brochure price. Some do I guess....

 

There is no reason for this to be a 'rebooking' and that's not what they claim. Of course, there may be other mistakes yet uncovered.

 

I think they gave me a category upgrade, the Explore4, and a FCD OBC and now they don't need to offer incentives to fill the boat, so they want to play hardball.

 

I could be wrong, and I hate to claim to be 'wronged' when I know things can be confusing. However, two of us sat there and booked at the same time, with the same intentions. Both of us are experienced cruisers and we both share the same recollection of the prices and conditions. So we are apparently at an impasse.

 

My conversation with my PCC was 7 days ago and I asked for an explanation, and none is yet forthcoming. He was not all that convincing when he tried the first time... and not responding is not typical. Hence, I suspect a full ship and they have decided to play hard with me. But you know... sometimes you just sour on an experience, and this may be one of those times. Doesn't seem proper to me, and I've like to be convinced I'm wrong, if I'm wrong. They are not trying very hard. Oh well...

[JayS]

Just for the heck of it, I tried a dummy booking on the October 2014, 42 day Maasdam TrAtl. If one books a Lanai in two back to back 21 day segments, the supplement is only 60% (if my math is correct), substantially below the price of booking the longer cruise. I think I need to call my TA!

 

I was looking at that cruise and noticed the 2 bookings are cheaper than the B2B. Other B2Bs I booked HAL gave a few $ off the price of the individual bookings.

 

I was about to book when the HAL web site showed the 2015 cruise to be 50 day at the same price PPDO as 2014 and a 60% supplement for inside. I booked. :)

 

Checking today the 2015 PPDO went up with a 100% supplement. The 22 and 28 day segments also have a 100% supplement.:mad:

 

 

BTW I just returned from a Carnival cruise w/ NO supplement.

[navybankerteacher]

Why is the single supplement so high? Are they figuring that with only one occupant you will spend less money on board?

 

Obviously one person should be logically presumed to spend less than two - and on-board spending is where the lines see their best contribution to the bottom line. Carrying just one person in a cabin rather than two does not significantly reduces the lines operating cost, while it predictably does reduce high-margin on-board spending.

 

From 2003 through 2007 I sailed solo many times - paying single supplements anywhere from 0% to 50%. Of course, I booked last minute (easier to make last minute plans when you are on your own)- and I would assume that even today lines would significantly discount unsold cabins in the week before sailing - and that discounting might logically be applied to supplement as well as base rates.

[cruz chic]

Obviously one person should be logically presumed to spend less than two - and on-board spending is where the lines see their best contribution to the bottom line. Carrying just one person in a cabin rather than two does not significantly reduces the lines operating cost, while it predictably does reduce high-margin on-board spending.

 

From 2003 through 2007 I sailed solo many times - paying single supplements anywhere from 0% to 50%. Of course, I booked last minute (easier to make last minute plans when you are on your own)- and I would assume that even today lines would significantly discount unsold cabins in the week before sailing - and that discounting might logically be applied to supplement as well as base rates.

Could you give an example of that? I don't recall seeing less than 200%, even on a inside when booking close to sailing. I don't think information going back to 2007 is relevant because things have change dramatically since then.

 

I've seen some very thrifty couple that don't spend much. To paint all single cruisers the same is not right.

[sail7seas]

Could you give an example of that? I don't recall seeing less than 200%, even on a inside when booking close to sailing. I don't think information going back to 2007 is relevant because things have change dramatically since then.

 

I've seen some very thrifty couple that don't spend much. To paint all single cruisers the same is not right.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

[Mekka]

HAL is in business to make a profit. The fact is that solo cruisers aren't very profitable for them, even with a 100% premium. It's not a question of being more or less thrifty. Solos take up cabin space that would otherwise create the possibility of 2 people buying excursions, gambling in the casino, buying drinks, etc. This isn't a moral or ethical issue. Solo passengers are simply not as attractive to the cruise lines as everyone else. You shouldn't take it personally or feel discriminated against. HAL is simply responding to the economic incentives that exist in their industry.

[RuthC]

Solos take up cabin space that would otherwise create the possibility of 2 people buying excursions, gambling in the casino, buying drinks, etc.

A solo is at least as likely to purchase an excursion, as they have no one to go off wandering with, or to share the cost of a private tour. A solo is less likely to sit in their cabin sipping on their evening cocktail, as they get out into the lounges to meet people; same with gambling. Solos are much less likely than couples to sit in their cabin---they are out and about, creating opportunities to spend.

Solo passengers are simply not as attractive to the cruise lines as everyone else.

They have made that abundantly clear, whether they should or not.

[Mekka]

You might be missing the point. I have no basis to judge whether or not a solo cruiser is more or less likely to buy an excursion, drink, gamble, buy photos, or shop in the stores. But the solo would have to spend twice as much as the individuals sharing a cabin for HAL to break even on the deal. That seems unlikely to me. HAL charges singles more for the same reason they charge more for the Neptune suites or to cruise on the Prinsendam. It's supply and demand and they are simply trying to make a profit.

[RuthC]

But the solo would have to spend twice as much as the individuals sharing a cabin for HAL to break even on the deal. That seems unlikely to me.

Solos don't have to spend as much as couples to be spending; they only have to be spending double the couple average. If you want to toss in the spending of kids who sail free, or at very reduced rates, the average is even lower.

 

Since we all read posts daily about couples doing walking tours on their own in ports, or booking private tours, we know HAL is making nothing on those people in those ports. We read all the time about couples bringing on bottles of wine to sip on their balcony; HAL makes at most the corkage fee on that. Solos are out in the lounges ordering drinks at a much higher cost, and booking HAL excursions.

We see posts all the time about how people leave the ship with little on-board expense. The spending bar for solos to reach is lower than you present, and not all that hard for a solo to reach.

 

I would love to see some current studies on how much couples spend on board vs. what solos spend. What I wonder is does HAL track this routinely, and act on the results. Or is HAL simply continuing to take solos for granted.

[Chelly]

solos don't have to spend as much as couples to be spending; they only have to be spending double the couple average. If you want to toss in the spending of kids who sail free, or at very reduced rates, the average is even lower.

 

Since we all read posts daily about couples doing walking tours on their own in ports, or booking private tours, we know hal is making nothing on those people in those ports. We read all the time about couples bringing on bottles of wine to sip on their balcony; hal makes at most the corkage fee on that. Solos are out in the lounges ordering drinks at a much higher cost, and booking hal excursions.

We see posts all the time about how people leave the ship with little on-board expense. The spending bar for solos to reach is lower than you present, and not all that hard for a solo to reach.

 

I would love to see some current studies on how much couples spend on board vs. What solos spend. What i wonder is does hal track this routinely, and act on the results. Or is hal simply continuing to take solos for granted.

^^^^^^like

[navybankerteacher]

Could you give an example of that? I don't recall seeing less than 200%, even on a inside when booking close to sailing. I don't think information going back to 2007 is relevant because things have change dramatically since then.

 

I've seen some very thrifty couple that don't spend much. To paint all single cruisers the same is not right.

 

I am not aware of any steeply reduced single supplements on upcoming HAL sailings - but there are a number on other lines on a web site I use to scan for upcoming sailings on all,lines.

 

My knuckles got rapped by the moderators for mentioning it as they are seen as a travel agent - but if you give me your email I will send you (or Sail - but no one else - I do not want to be inundated) the site (geoff.burke at a o l dot com) look at their "discounted cruises" listings.

[navybankerteacher]

Could you give an example of that? I don't recall seeing less than 200%, even on a inside when booking close to sailing. I don't think information going back to 2007 is relevant because things have change dramatically since then.

 

I've seen some very thrifty couple that don't spend much. To paint all single cruisers the same is not right.

 

Look at August 4 12 night Nieuw Amsterdam sailing from Barcelona.

 

While it is of course not right to paint all singles the same, and I agree that there are some very thrifty couples; so what? The odds are that two people sharing a cabin are likely to spend more on miscellaneous add-ons than one. And even if HAL might be mistaken in making that assumption, the decision is theirs to make.

[cruz chic]

Look at August 4 12 night Nieuw Amsterdam sailing from Barcelona.

 

While it is of course not right to paint all singles the same, and I agree that there are some very thrifty couples; so what? The odds are that two people sharing a cabin are likely to spend more on miscellaneous add-ons than one. And even if HAL might be mistaken in making that assumption, the decision is theirs to make.

 

I looked at inside, oceanview and balcony rooms on that cruise. Every one of them is coming in at 200% on the HAL website signed in with my mariner id. I guess you must be getting a better deal then I am.

 

Thanks for letting me know that is HAL decision to make. I had no idea:rolleyes:.

[cruisemom42]

A solo is at least as likely to purchase an excursion, as they have no one to go off wandering with, or to share the cost of a private tour. A solo is less likely to sit in their cabin sipping on their evening cocktail, as they get out into the lounges to meet people; same with gambling. Solos are much less likely than couples to sit in their cabin---they are out and about, creating opportunities to spend.

 

 

 

I suspect everyone's own experience colors one's perception of what others do. While you may, as a solo traveler, balance the scale with more expenditures than your average couple, there is going to be someone on the other end of the spectrum like myself who spends very little on board. As I said in another thread, I don't go to specialty restaurants or gamble or go to the spa, I avoid shore excursions, don't buy photos, and have pretty modest drinking habits.

 

It isn't only the couples HAL has to "average" but also the solos.

[navybankerteacher]

 

Thanks for letting me know that is HAL decision to make. I had no idea:rolleyes:.

 

I cannot imagine that the thought never occurred to you.

[TeamBozo]

It might be fun to speculate about who spends more... solos or couples. I doubt any of you have any empirical basis for claiming one way or the other. But I can't believe anybody could seriously assert that solos spend more than twice as much per capita than passengers traveling as couples. That's what it would take for singles to be as profitable as couples. Do you really think that solos drink twice as much, gamble twice as much, take twice as many excursions??? That's ridiculous. When a solo goes on an excursion, he pays one price. A couple buys 2 tickets. That's simple math.

 

No wonder Holland prefers couples and prices their cabins accordingly. I sense a defensiveness and persecution complex in the comments by solos. Holland's pricing is no reflection on your worth as a human being. I'm sure you would like to get a better deal, but that's not being realistic. You simply aren't as attractive as customers and they would rather have 2 people in your cabin, even if you pay double. I know you don't want to hear this, but it's a straightforward business decision.

[POA1]

It might be fun to speculate about who spends more... solos or couples. I doubt any of you have any empirical basis for claiming one way or the other. But I can't believe anybody could seriously assert that solos spend more than twice as much per capita than passengers traveling as couples. That's what it would take for singles to be as profitable as couples. Do you really think that solos drink twice as much, gamble twice as much, take twice as many excursions??? That's ridiculous. When a solo goes on an excursion, he pays one price. A couple buys 2 tickets. That's simple math.

 

No wonder Holland prefers couples and prices their cabins accordingly. I sense a defensiveness and persecution complex in the comments by solos. Holland's pricing is no reflection on your worth as a human being. I'm sure you would like to get a better deal, but that's not being realistic. You simply aren't as attractive as customers and they would rather have 2 people in your cabin, even if you pay double. I know you don't want to hear this, but it's a straightforward business decision.

The thing everyone misses in these calculations is that the food cost for a solo traveler's cabin is half of the two person cabin's cost. You have to credit the single traveler's side of the ledger with 100% profit for the missing food cost if they've paid double fare. That's a pretty hefty number.

 

A couple needs to spend the food cost divided by the profit margin to offset this. So if the margin on excursions is 40% and the food cost is $500 for a voyage, the couple needs to spend $1,250 on excursions to offset the food cost "profit." This example assumes that the couple only spends money on excursions, of course. But you get the picture, I hope.

[cruisemom42]

The thing everyone misses in these calculations is that the food cost for a solo traveler's cabin is half of the two person cabin's cost. You have to credit the single traveler's side of the ledger with 100% profit for the missing food cost if they've paid double fare. That's a pretty hefty number.

 

A couple needs to spend the food cost divided by the profit margin to offset this. So if the margin on excursions is 40% and the food cost is $500 for a voyage, the couple needs to spend $1,250 on excursions to offset the food cost "profit." This example assumes that the couple only spends money on excursions, of course. But you get the picture, I hope.

 

I remember a couple of years ago someone (BruceMuzz?) posted the average cost of food per person per day. It was surprisingly low -- like in the $10-15 range across the mass market lines. That'd be $70-$105 for a 7-day cruise.

 

I remember NCL was the lowest; Princess and Celebrity were close to the top.

[cruz chic]

It might be fun to speculate about who spends more... solos or couples. I doubt any of you have any empirical basis for claiming one way or the other. But I can't believe anybody could seriously assert that solos spend more than twice as much per capita than passengers traveling as couples. That's what it would take for singles to be as profitable as couples. Do you really think that solos drink twice as much, gamble twice as much, take twice as many excursions??? That's ridiculous. When a solo goes on an excursion, he pays one price. A couple buys 2 tickets. That's simple math.

 

No wonder Holland prefers couples and prices their cabins accordingly. I sense a defensiveness and persecution complex in the comments by solos. Holland's pricing is no reflection on your worth as a human being. I'm sure you would like to get a better deal, but that's not being realistic. You simply aren't as attractive as customers and they would rather have 2 people in your cabin, even if you pay double. I know you don't want to hear this, but it's a straightforward business decision.

 

Take a look at post 61 made by Ruth. Perhaps that will help you understand it's not a simple as you lay out. I constantly see posters that are couples saying they would never take a Hal excursion. I always do and never heat the end of it for doing so. How much is Hal losing on that? Would it be ok to punish them?

[cruz chic]

I remember a couple of years ago someone (BruceMuzz?) posted the average cost of food per person per day. It was surprisingly low -- like in the $10-15 range across the mass market lines. That'd be $70-$105 for a 7-day cruise.

 

I remember NCL was the lowest; Princess and Celebrity were close to the top.

 

You do realize that posters can say anything. I could tell you I work for Hal and have all sorts of information. When I hear stories that all clocks that were placed in rooms by the cruise line were stolen by pax, the info loses credibility with me fast. Every clock, come on now.

[cruz chic]

I sail with Princess fairly often. I always notice how quick some couples are to jump all over singles on the Hal board about how they could never spend as much as a couple. I don't notice that attack mode on the Princess boards. So far for my November cruise I've spent $500 and I haven't set foot on the ship. The total will likely be much higher before I leave along with what I spend on board. I guess the couples must be spending multiples of that.

[navybankerteacher]

Take a look at post 61 made by Ruth. Perhaps that will help you understand it's not a simple as you lay out. I constantly see posters that are couples saying they would never take a Hal excursion. I always do and never heat the end of it for doing so. How much is Hal losing on that? Would it be ok to punish them?

 

Anecdotal evidence can be compelling - and there surely must be solos who are great spenders on board. However, the people who really understand the economics of cruising - and who have a pressing motive (profitability) for the decisions concerning cabin pricing - are the cruise lines themselves.

 

They are in business to operate profitably - if they thought they could operate as profitably with singles in cabins they would set prices accordingly. They do not make singles pay more than halves of couples because they are mean --- they do it because it makes sense to them.

[POA1]

I remember a couple of years ago someone (BruceMuzz?) posted the average cost of food per person per day. It was surprisingly low -- like in the $10-15 range across the mass market lines. That'd be $70-$105 for a 7-day cruise.

 

I remember NCL was the lowest; Princess and Celebrity were close to the top.

 

I'm referring to the fully loaded food cost which is the total cost of the meal including food, prep, service, and cleanup. I should have been more specific. If you just look at the food part of the equation, the overall 2014 average is $15.15 per pax per day. That's weighted toward the mainstream lines because they have more berths in the total calculation.

 

The mainstream (also called mass market - but not by the industry) lines are: Carnival, Costa, Disney**, MSC, NCL, and RCI. (Don't argue. I got this straight from CLIA. ;) ) When you're looking at the food costs, these lines have more more passengers in the equation and wind up providing more of the overall weighting.

 

**- I was surprised to see Disney here, but I'm just reporting.