2 New NCL ships. Not the 200,000 ton rumored.

[bobg529]

I wouldn't be surprised if they retired the Pride of America and put a new ship based in Hawaii. It seems to me that POA is a bit long in the tooth and they could use a few more berths, assuming that one of the new ships will fit there.

[smeyer418]

I wouldn't be surprised if they retired the Pride of America and put a new ship based in Hawaii. It seems to me that POA is a bit long in the tooth and they could use a few more berths, assuming that one of the new ships will fit there.

no way. The ship to do the POA ports would have to be built in the USA.

[smeyer418]

"...The cruisers who go there tend to be older(long cruises too) and not NCL's type. but we will see."

 

Pray tell, what is NCL's type? Hope we fit!:D

younger and shorter cruises.

[shof515]

no way. The ship to do the POA ports would have to be built in the USA.

 

or 50% built in Germany and 50% built in the USA. That is how the POA was built back in the day

[smeyer418]

or 50% built in Germany and 50% built in the USA. That is how the POA was built back in the day

it required a specific exemption in the law. Which they would NEVER get now. It also allowed for a reflagging of one ship. That ship was reflagged to the US and then reflagged back. Never again. You couldn't get that through this congress with bells and whistles on it.

What was the partial US hull they allowed that on was already owned by the US government through a default so they had a partially completed hull that they owned that they wanted to get rid of...

Edited July 15, 2014 by smeyer418

[lah66]

Ok, I can't be the only one thinking this....

 

Coworker: How exciting, which ship are you sailing on?

 

Me: The Norwegian Flee (Flea?)

 

Couldn't they come up with a better name???

 

Lauri

[spencercoop]

Hopefully NCL will beat the most recent waterfront copies..

 

Costa Diadema, 5 mtr wide promenade:

 

Actually the Costa Diadema is a Carnival Dream class ship, which was designed before the Breakaway class ships.

 

So technically NCL copied Carnival with the waterfront design, but NCL definitely brought it to the next level with restaurant and bar seating.

[All-ready2cruise]

it required a specific exemption in the law. Which they would NEVER get now. It also allowed for a reflagging of one ship. That ship was reflagged to the US and then reflagged back. Never again. You couldn't get that through this congress with bells and whistles on it.

What was the partial US hull they allowed that on was already owned by the US government through a default so they had a partially completed hull that they owned that they wanted to get rid of...

 

Didn't NCL just put ? millions ? of dollars into the POA confirming their commitment to keeping it in HI? I could be wrong of course but thought I'd read that recently.

[spencercoop]

I wouldn't be surprised if they retired the Pride of America and put a new ship based in Hawaii. It seems to me that POA is a bit long in the tooth and they could use a few more berths, assuming that one of the new ships will fit there.

 

The Pride of America just launched in 2005. She hasn't even been in service for 10 years yet, so she still has at least another 10 years left in service.

[New2cruise1483]

I would love to see NCL base a ship in San Juan for 7 night southern itineraries. I had to abandon NCL for a cruise out of there to RCCL because they don't have any out of there :(

[bobg529]

it required a specific exemption in the law. Which they would NEVER get now. It also allowed for a reflagging of one ship. That ship was reflagged to the US and then reflagged back. Never again. You couldn't get that through this congress with bells and whistles on it.

What was the partial US hull they allowed that on was already owned by the US government through a default so they had a partially completed hull that they owned that they wanted to get rid of...

 

Very interesting info, thanks! It's sad though that we no longer consider ourselves a nation that's capable of constructing a cruise ship. During WWII, this country built over 2,700 Liberty ships. I know that they were far from the mega sized cruise ships of today, but you get the general idea. Then our leaders encouraged us to to do all we could and more. Now they just tell us what we CAN'T do, and then raise our taxes again. :mad:

[shof515]

Very interesting info, thanks! It's sad though that we no longer consider ourselves a nation that's capable of constructing a cruise ship. During WWII, this country built over 2,700 Liberty ships. I know that they were far from the mega sized cruise ships of today, but you get the general idea. Then our leaders encouraged us to to do all we could and more. Now they just tell us what we CAN'T do, and then raise our taxes again. :mad:

 

and how it seems most presidents/politicians want to push the STEM education system, yet no one wants engineers who can/want to built stuff..hmm

Edited July 16, 2014 by shof515

[smeyer418]

When NCL got the partially built hull(a hull and some cut steel for a second ship), they asked every shipyard in the US if they wanted to complete it. The short answer was NO. They were all too busy building for the Navy. We can we just don't want to. The Navy is too profitable. Its not like Germany is a third world country ...but a good football one!

 

Its not particularly difficult to build a cruise ship, but to do one cost effectively requires experience which we haven't had in a cruise ship in years. remember the shipyard that was building these ships in the US went bankrupt too...as did the German shipyard that completed it(another long story).

Lloyd Werft went bankrupt. Its Meyer Werft that will build these two.

Edited July 16, 2014 by smeyer418

[LrgPizza]

Actually the Costa Diadema is a Carnival Dream class ship, which was designed before the Breakaway class ships.

 

So technically NCL copied Carnival with the waterfront design, but NCL definitely brought it to the next level with restaurant and bar seating.

 

If there is no restaurant or bar seating on Carnival's, then isn't it just a typical promenade like many ships have had for many years, so not really a copy of NCL?

[bobg529]

When NCL got the partially built hull(a hull and some cut steel for a second ship), they asked every shipyard in the US if they wanted to complete it. The short answer was NO. They were all too busy building for the Navy. We can we just don't want to. The Navy is too profitable. Its not like Germany is a third world country ...but a good football one!

 

Its not particularly difficult to build a cruise ship, but to do one cost effectively requires experience which we haven't had in a cruise ship in years. remember the shipyard that was building these ships in the US went bankrupt too...as did the German shipyard that completed it(another long story).

Lloyd Werft went bankrupt. Its Meyer Werft that will build these two.

 

 

My friend, what you say is undoubtably true, but it's more a comment on the military industrial complex that Ike warned us about in 1960, than it is on profitability.

[4774Papa]

My friend, what you say is undoubtably true, but it's more a comment on the military industrial complex that Ike warned us about in 1960, than it is on profitability.

Sorry, but I don't see documented facts that logically prove your hypothesis.

I was a procurement attorney that worked for the Army and Navy for 31 years. Building aircraft carriers and destroyers is a lot different from commercial ships like cruise ships.

There are no shipyards in the USA that build cruise ships.

Tell me again why the military industrial complex won't build cruise ships?

 

http://www.cruisejobfinder.com/fm/cruises/foreign-flagged-cruise-ships.php

Perhaps it has something to do with Government regulation.

 

From 1908 through the 1950s there was a U.S.-flagged ship that carried passengers from San Francisco to Honolulu. That was before expenses to build and run U.S.-flagged ships rose to the point it wasn't practical anymore. It was also before the popularity, and economy, of airline travel. This service died a painful death in the mid 1970s and has not been revived.

So, the U.S.-flagged cruise line industry went the way of the dodo. Foreign-flagged cruise lines found a way to circumvent the laws on the books, and now most cruises are based on foreign-flagged cruise ships.

Norwegian Cruise Line did register a ship in the United States, but it wasn't entirely built here although a few pieces of it were. These pieces were built by American Classic Voyages, but the company went bankrupt and Norwegian Cruise Lines purchased the pieces at a reduced rate. Because of technicalities, and the U.S. government recouping some of the money they subsidized American Classic Voyages, the ships were allowed to be registered in the United States. The main assemblage of the cruise ships were completed in Germany.

Are there other reasons why most cruises are on foreign-flagged ships? Part of the reason is that the market has shifted. South America, East Asia, India, and the Mediterranean markets have opened up. Until, or unless, more cruise lines are built and registered in the United States, it doesn't look like foreign-flagged cruise lines will be changing.

Of course, the main reason, cost of building cruise ships in the United States, will continue to be a deterrent to changing the registration and flagging of ships. Since it doesn't look like the cost of building ships will reduce any time in the near future, it looks like anyone choosing to go on a cruise will do so on foreign-flagged cruise ships

[smeyer418]

this has gotten far afield(my fault too) but lets not have a discussion of whether economics of building for the military crowds out other opportunities. its OT....

[barnacle_boy]

Building aircraft carriers and destroyers is a lot different from commercial ships like cruise ships.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Apples and oranges. Pride of America presents some interesting challenges for NCL because it was not initially designed or built in the traditional manner of most cruise ships. Even with many tons of permanent concrete ballast added in Germany, the ship is perpetually hogging and exhibits unusual tendencies. You can chalk that up to Ingalls having not built a cruise ship since SS Argentina in 1958.

 

Senator Inouye was the main reason why NCL was able to secure such generous PVSA exemptions and other considerations. I think the fact that Inouye named Pride of Hawaii while his wife renamed Pride of Aloha says a lot about how instrumental he was in making the project happen. He was amongst the most senior members of the Senate and could pretty much get whatever he wanted. A self-described “King of Pork,” Inouye gave Hawaii countless billions of dollars (completely disproportionate to the size and population of the state) during his nearly 50 year long Senate career. If some pesky law or agency held up his goals, he just rewrote the law to get around it.

 

When Inouye died in 2012, so did any hope of reflagging additional ships in the near future. Unless Congress bothers to amend or replace the PVSA (HA! :p), I doubt such massive exemptions would be able to get through Congress again.

[bobg529]

Everyone here makes intelligent and pertinent commentary to the discussion and I as well do not wish to drag this board down the dirty and distasteful road of politics so I shall respectfully withdraw and wish all here happy cruising! :)

[mitsugirly]

As long as they start hitting some new Caribbean ports!

 

 

I agree. I would love to see some new ports. I have done the same old ports over and over again and would like some new ones! :D

 

 

Adding more ships...geesh, I can't cruise enough to complete the current fleet as it is...but I'm working on it. :D

[Winston Wolf]

deleted.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Winston Wolf

[bonvoyagie]

Love all the speculation going on here.:D

As far as HI is concerned only the POA and the Jade (which has not seen a US port since it left HI) can sail the interisland route.

 

I find it interesting that they are ordering two more ships of the same class as the two being built. NCL is not even sure that the "plus" class ships will be a success.

[Demonyte]

Love all the speculation going on here.:D

As far as HI is concerned only the POA and the Jade (which has not seen a US port since it left HI) can sail the interisland route.

 

I find it interesting that they are ordering two more ships of the same class as the two being built. NCL is not even sure that the "plus" class ships will be a success.

 

To my understanding Jade will lose the ability to be reflagged back to US after summer 2015 when she moves to Houston for winter, so NCL must not feel the need for having a backup ship to HI anymore.

 

What comes to Breakaway Plus class, since Breakaway class is improved Epic class and Breakaway class as a design has succeeded, I can't see why the Breakaway Plus class would be too different in the terms of passenger acceptance - I'm sure they learned their lesson from Epic and won't undo the improvements made on Breakaway class. ;) OTOH, the differences between Epic and Breakaway class are quite small (except for the Waterfront) so it's not always only the big things that matter..

[FreestyleNovice]

Designing and building a complete new class would be a more expensive gamble too. Also the same class build will keep the building and delivery time down since Meyer has all the knowledge and experience.

 

My bet would be that one of the Plus ships will be the fastest build cruiseship (or one of the Roayal Quantums..) since Breakaway.

[FreestyleNovice]

Some facts and again a sparkle of pixie dust speculation:

 

Breakaway:

Steel cutting Sep 21, 2011

Keel laying May 4, 2012

Float out Feb 26, 2013

Delivery Apr 25, 2013

Total build time to delivery: 18 months

 

Getaway:

Steel cutting May 4, 2012

Keel laying Oct 30, 2012

Float out Nov 2, 2013

Delivery Jan 10, 2014

Total build time to delivery: 22 months

 

Escape (Breakaway Plus 1):

Steel cutting March 20, 2014

Keel laying Aug/Sept? 2014 (after Royal's Quantum of the Seas will be floated out)

Float out summer? 2015

Delivery Aug/Sept? 2015

Total build time to delivery: 18 months

 

Bliss (Breakaway Plus 2):

Steel cutting Sept? 2015

Keel laying Feb? 2016

Float out Jan? 2017

Delivery spring 2017

Total build time to delivery: 18 months?

 

Unnamed Breakaway Plus 3:

Steel cutting: Q4? 2016

Keel laying: Q4 2016/Q1 2017?

Float out: Q2 2018?

Delivery: Q2 2018

Total build: appr 20 months?

 

Unnamed Breakaway Plus 4:

Steel cutting: Q2 2018?

Keel laying: Q4 2018?

Float out: Q4 2019?

Delivery: Q4 2019

Total build: appr 20 months?