NCL Reports It Has Agreed to Purchase PCH

[Travelcat2]

I've been away and not following the O board very closely lately as O cruising is only one aspect receiving my discretionary travel $$. I don't have nearly the O credits that many posters here seem to have but my experiences there allow me to highly recommend the carrier to any potential cruisers who seek information. Out of curiosity, I decided to look into this forum when informed of the sale by a fellow passengers on our last O cruise from Barcelona to Dubai. I find the tumult amusing! A tempest in a teapot, Really. As another poster noted, NCL is not stupid, that's why they bought Prestige. As I understand it, NCL proposes to maintain Prestige as is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! That's why they invited FDR to stay on. He could take the money and run, after all. We don't know why he is staying into 2015. Perhaps he'll renew beyond that or, as others have suggested, become chair of NCL. Therefore loyal O's should expect a continuation of the outstanding product they have subscribed to in the past, including the loyalty points system. Pricing maintenance will be made through economies of scale purchasing and administration co-ordination as they've indicated. Why would all these intelligent passengers doubt that? If NCL were to mess with the golden egg by charging for water bottles, charge extra for specialty dining etc., they do so at their peril. There is too much competition out there for our discretionary dollars. We don't have to threaten them with it, they already know. Take the high road, stay calm, wait and see. Nuff said, I'm done

 

Your words were worth much more than 2 cents. Thank you for your words of wisdom. :)

[Paulchili]

As I understand it, NCL proposes to maintain Prestige as is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

I believe we all have heard this before from any number of companies that took over other companies - it rarely turns out that way. After all, what else do you expect them to say? Let's hope this is an exception in history of mergers/take-overs.

 

That's why they invited FDR to stay on. He could take the money and run, after all. We don't know why he is staying into 2015. Perhaps he'll renew beyond that or, as others have suggested, become chair of NCL.

 

With all due respect, we do not know the details of negotiations. We don't know that FDR wanted to stay - maybe it was a condition of sale that he stay for at least till end of 2015 - just saying

 

Pricing maintenance will be made through economies of scale purchasing and administration co-ordination as they've indicated.

 

Does that mean that the supplier of food (meat, etc) will now be the one that supplies NCL and not Oceania's supplier? Do we know that? Do you think that NCL's meat supplier provides better quality meat or cheaper meat than what Oceania now buys (I am betting on latter)? Maybe the economies of scale will also mean reduction of staff with poorer service?

 

Why would all these intelligent passengers doubt that? If NCL were to mess with the golden egg by charging for water bottles, charge extra for specialty dining etc., they do so at their peril. There is too much competition out there for our discretionary dollars.

 

The changes, if any, are not likely to be drastic or immediate. Small changes over time tend to be less "annoying" and people just get used to them. New cruisers to Oceania won't know the difference and are likely to be pleased with what they are getting. Where would the old Oceania cruisers go if they don't like the changes? To Carnival or RCI? Maybe they don't like Silversea because of dress code and price - not many choices left. Maybe that is what the new NCL is counting on?

 

I will grant you, my comments above are pretty pessimistic and I truly hope that I will be wrong but unfortunately the history of mergers is on my side. Let's hope that this will be an exception.

PS Time will tell. We have several cruises booked now and will not cancel them but will wait and see how they go before booking further cruises.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Paulchili

[Travelcat2]

I will grant you, my comments above are pretty pessimistic and I truly hope that I will be wrong but unfortunately the history of mergers is on my side. Let's hope that this will be an exception.

PS Time will tell. We have several cruises booked now and will not cancel them but will wait and see how they go before booking further cruises.

 

Yes -- quite a negative post. However, I am not one think of the glass being half empty. I'm a bit confused that Silversea, a luxury cruise line and considerably more expensive than Oceania is being discussed on this board. In any event, there is more going on with Silversea at the moment than the fact that you have to wear a suit or sports jacket for 2/3 of the cruise. As mentioned previously, Silversea is not maintaining their ships. This, IMO, is a big deal. I would much rather continue cruising on Oceania and Regent than go onto a ship that is beginning to show dramatic signs of wear.

 

When the itineraries for Oceania (and hopefully Regent) come out this month, those of you that are hesitating might not be able to get the stateroom or suite that you would like. This leaves it wide open for the rest of us.

 

In terms of changes and apparent cut-backs (some cut-backs are not cut-backs but are perceived that way), Regent has been through their share of them. Passengers experienced many changes - particularly in the 18 months following it's purchase by PCH. I remember vividly when I blasted PCH for implementing a "Concierge Program" (still hate that program). Fortunately, it is not as dramatic as it is on Oceania. To this day I dislike included excursions. However, the ships are better than they have ever been -- the staff is happy - the customers are now happy and the food is as good or better than Oceania (exception: Red Ginger and Jacques). Regent customers are booking cruises more than ever before. Whoever predicted doom and gloom for Regent was very wrong. Hopefully the same will be the case with NCL.

 

P.S. Was posting at the same time at JPR -- definitely agree with that post! Also, do not expect any Oceania cruisers to agree with my food assessment:-)

Edited September 5, 2014 by Travelcat2

[JPR]

We all need to calm down. The beauty of free enterprise is competition. If Oceania and Regent both deteriorate under NCL, we will vote with our feet and move to the competition. Meanwhile, if you feel the need to run to Silversea (which has a nice product) or Azamara, that is your decision. And that just means space for the rest of us on Riviera and Marina!

[pacheco18]

We all need to calm down. The beauty of free enterprise is competition. If Oceania and Regent both deteriorate under NCL, we will vote with our feet and move to the competition. Meanwhile, if you feel the need to run to Silversea (which has a nice product) or Azamara, that is your decision. And that just means space for the rest of us on Riviera and Marina!

 

Not Azamara

Go read the lengthy thread on the dismantled loyalty program -- they took away the best perks and replace them with useless ones. Many are abandoning ship. I just canceled a b2b Azamara cruise for 2015 and replaced it with an O cruise and 7 nights on Allure -- just for fun.

 

Seabourn may be a good option, however.

[hypercafe]

Any chance we might see recipical acknowledgement of customer loyalty programs? A gold on O is treated as a gold on NCL and vice versa. I know O and Regent don't do that now' date=' but I would be more inclined to bounce around if they did. Like the airline agreements between carriers on they frequent flyer programs.[/quote']

 

Because it is easier to get advanced on NCL and that O gives very nice percs I do not think their will be a one to one conversion. However since they want and hope people will jump from NCL to O and back they have to have a way to cross reference.

[Paulchili]

 

Passengers experienced many changes - particularly in the 18 months following it's purchase by PCH. I remember vividly when I blasted PCH for implementing a "Concierge Program" (still hate that program). Fortunately, it is not as dramatic as it is on Oceania. To this day I dislike included excursions. However, the ships are better than they have ever been -- the staff is happy - the customers are now happy and the food is as good or better than Oceania (exception: Red Ginger and Jacques). Regent customers are booking cruises more than ever before. Whoever predicted doom and gloom for Regent was very wrong. Hopefully the same will be the case with NCL.

 

 

TC2,

Using your favorite term - this is apples and oranges.

PCH taking over Regent is not exactly the same as NCL taking over Oceania (& Regent) - can we agree on that?

[Travelcat2]

Because it is easier to get advanced on NCL and that O gives very nice percs I do not think their will be a one to one conversion. However since they want and hope people will jump from NCL to O and back they have to have a way to cross reference.

 

I would love to know if anyone knows a way to "cross reference" benefits.

 

Just looked up a 7 night round-trip New York/Burmuda/New York on NCL. It is a last minute deal (something that Oceania and Regent do not have). Prices range from $499 - $2,579 per person for this cruise. How many cruises would you have to take at $499 (71.28/day) to equal one night on Oceania or Regent? It is mind boggling!

 

Paulchili: Agree that it is different but Regent customers sounded a whole lot like the Oceania customers now when the buy-out was happening. For at least 18 months Regent customers were either crying "I don't want to be like Oceania" or "Regent and Oceania will merge" (some people won't let the "merge" thing go even though the odds of that happening, IMO, is 1,000,000,000 to 1) So, while the scenario is totally different, the fear I'm hearing is the same. I understand the fear but completely do not understand cancelling cruises, predicting doom, predicting that the ships will look like the silly NCL ships. On the Regent board someone said that we should get ready for wet t-shirt contests:-) Hopefully that was a joke.

 

I do find it interesting that Oceania customers appear more concerned than Regent customers. I am not aware of customers cancelling cruises. Perhaps that is because we have been through this before. Also interesting is the interest from NCL in Oceania rather than Regent.

 

We are in a "wait and see" mode and will certainly book a cruise if we see something of interest on either Oceania or Regent. If we do not book it will only be because we are booked through 2015 and are hoping to be on the Explorer in 2016).

[amusea]

I have been sailing since 1969. The lines I have sailed most often are: Cunard since 1969 (inaugural year of QE2), Holland America since 1980, Princess since 1988 and Celebrity since 1991. All of these lines have become victims of economic cutbacks. The most common way for a cruise line to continue to offer their best features is to start charging for something that used to be included in the base price of the cruise. Of course things change with time and that is to be expected. I have observed that economies tend to be made in small incremental steps so that changes are subtle. But over time they add up. There are always loyal cruisers who will pick up on these supposedly insignificant changes and complain about them but the changes soon become part of the fabric of the line. Then the next year other small "improvements" are made. And so it goes. Just the trend towards larger ships is one of the most glaring examples of economy of operation that rules the cruise industry. My recent disappointing sailing on the inaugural TA of the NCL Breakaway was indicative of this trend.

Since I have only been on two O cruises with my first Riviera cruise now booked for December, I will leave the observations of any noticed changes in the next few years to those who sail the line faithfully. But history has taught me not to be very optimistic.

[pratzert]

We did an Alaska Cruise on the NCL "Spirit" years ago and I think NCL is head and shoulders above the Carnival Ships.

 

So at least it may not sink down to the Carnival at level.....

 

Heck.. it may not degrade at all. Perhaps NCL wanted to own this particular niche cruising market.

 

The food on the Spirit was good... but absolutely nothing even close to what we had on our 14 day Med cruise on the Insignia.

 

We still have a North Europe cruise on our bucket list and hope "O" doesn't turn to the dark side before we get a chance to go.

 

I suspect some of the things that may disappear are the included water & soda and the ability to bring aboard your own libations.

[hondorner]

I will grant you, my comments above are pretty pessimistic and I truly hope that I will be wrong but unfortunately the history of mergers is on my side. Let's hope that this will be an exception.

PS Time will tell. We have several cruises booked now and will not cancel them but will wait and see how they go before booking further cruises.

 

If you hope things will be different, why feed into the negativity with a lot of "maybes" that will contribute to a loss of faith?

[Travelcat2]

Agree Don!

 

pratzert , you may certainly be right about NCL being a better cruise line than Carnival. However, perception is the issue and, IMO, the two lines are considered to be pretty much the same.

[Paulchili]

If you hope things will be different, why feed into the negativity with a lot of "maybes" that will contribute to a loss of faith?

 

Because I have lived long enough to see many mergers/acquisitions and I can't think of one where it turned out for the better for the customer on long run.

Can you?

PS Maybe Oceania & Regent case was the exception that I am hoping for.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Paulchili

[hondorner]

TC2,

Using your favorite term - this is apples and oranges.

PCH taking over Regent is not exactly the same as NCL taking over Oceania (& Regent) - can we agree on that?

 

Not me --a takeover is a takeover. The same unfounded negativity surfaced then and has not come to pass -- most likely because it involved a factor not included in your doom examples, FDR.

[hondorner]

Because I have lived long enough to see many mergers/acquisitions and I can't think of one where it turned out for the better for the customer on long run.

Can you?

 

Then, you have actually given up hope...

[Travelcat2]

Because I have lived long enough to see many mergers/acquisitions and I can't think of one where it turned out for the better for the customer on long run.

Can you?

PS Maybe Oceania & Regent case was the exception that I am hoping for.

 

I can definitely think of one take-over that turned out for the better for the customer in the long run. When Regent was taken over by Prestige Cruise Holdings. Hope that we can agree on that.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Travelcat2

[Tarpeian Rock]

Not me --a takeover is a takeover. The same unfounded negativity surfaced then and has not come to pass -- most likely because it involved a factor not included in your doom examples, FDR.

 

 

I certainly wouldn't defend "unfounded negativity." OTOH, there is a certain amount of wisdom in the old expression "once burned, twice shy." And if one is on this board, one has been "burned" by any number of consumer product corporate tomfoolery episodes -- frequently announced by that dreaded form letter beginning "In order to serve you better........"

 

And for totally irrational reasons, I would have felt much better if, in that announcement "thumbs-up" PR picture, FDR wasn't sporting a beard in apparent imitation of his new boss. As I said, totally irrational.

[Paulchili]

Then, you have actually given up hope...

 

No - I am hoping that this will be the exception to the rule:)

I have 3 cruises booked on O and I am not canceling any of them. Just not booking any new ones until I am satisfied that things are status quo.

[Paulchili]

I can definitely think of one take-over that turned out for the better for the customer in the long run. When Regent was taken over by Prestige Cruise Holdings. Hope that we can agree on that.

 

Did you actually read my post before answering?

Read the entire post again - especially the PS :)

Edited September 5, 2014 by Paulchili

[Paulchili]

Not me --a takeover is a takeover. The same unfounded negativity surfaced then and has not come to pass -- most likely because it involved a factor not included in your doom examples, FDR.

 

Don, I have to disagree with you on this one.

Oceania and Regent were more or less equal in quality - Regent being better in some ways, Oceania better in other ways (food, new ships, etc).

This, however, cannot be said of Oceania and NCL.

In the worst case scenario if Regent were to be "dragged down" to the level of Oceania, the changes would not be very drastic. If, however, Oceania was pulled down to the level of NCL - I would call those changes drastic.

So the former merger was a merger of equals (more or less) while the latter is not. So not all takeovers are the same.

Secondly,

I mentioned elsewhere that if FDR has free hands - all will be well with Oceania.

However, if his hands are tied by the bean counters at NCL, that will be a different story.

Time will tell.

[Caroldoll]

1 I think FDR looks VERY CUTE in the beard! Yum

 

2. I have more than a half dozen cruises on Norwegian and in ALL CASES

I have been treated better than well. We do cruise in a suite.

 

Don't panic.

[old nutter]

Didn't quite make our first O experience on Nautica this summer due to a last minute medical issue, but one of the things I have seen lately on here when we were expecting to go on her was that the staff do not seem to have been particularly happy in recent times. We have been on cruises with other companies over recent years, but one thing that stands out an absolute mile is the contented crews were have experienced on NCL ships. If they are gong to make only one change it would be to do whatever makes those crew appear to be so happy doing their jobs on all of the company ships. We were on the NCL Jade last year when the typhoon hit the Philippines and as there were so many of the crew from there it was interesting to see how the company dealt with it from a morale point of view. Every one of those affected was given free calls home to try to see if their relatives were OK and support was given to those who could not find out what had happened. Whilst the experience was not good for them overall, the support they got from the management was excellent.

 

There was another very humbling thing that happened on that cruise that stemmed from the huge charitable and government response that came from the UK (amongst other of course) after the typhoon when our room steward came and thanked us for the help that had been given to his people from the UK. In this day and age, for our country to be thanked in that way was unusual to say the least and it showed just how much those guys thought of their passengers.

 

After seeing some of the disastrous management foul-ups on some lines (eg the mess over the cruise charges that Carnival got into in Europe last year) you do sometimes have to wonder just how these people manage to get into such high positions. From what I have seen over the past couple of years, the rise of NCL has been because they seem to know just how to keep their customers happy. They do have the occasional SNAFU and sometimes do not handle it perfectly, but their customer service and sensitivity to harmful PR is second to none. Yes, they are focussed on the bottom line, but they certainly seem to aware that the best way to maximise the balance sheet is to keep customers happy spending their money and coming back to spend it again with hem rather than another cruise company. I think you have every reason to be optimistic about the future.

 

If you haven't seen it, have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zf_KiQURvk This is an episode of the US TV show Undercover Boss. The programme shows what happened when Kevin Sheehan went undercover on one of the NCL ships from painting the side to serving in the main restaurant. You can get an idea of the man at the top when his cover is blown by one of the waitresses who recognises him. Interesting to see how he handled it. You will also get an idea how important morale is to his team. It also briefly mentions some of his humble roots and what he did to get to where he is - pretty impressive.

[orchestrapal]

1 I think FDR looks VERY CUTE in the beard! Yum

 

2. I have more than a half dozen cruises on Norwegian and in ALL CASES

I have been treated better than well. We do cruise in a suite.

Don't panic.

 

 

We also had good service in suites the two, times many many years ago, we went on NCL. The problems for us were with the size of the ships and the number of people and of course smoke......

[Caroldoll]

As I said..very well treated. A slight inconvenience was their liquor policy. Considerably less expense than Oceania so paying for alternative dining was not a problem. Never had to pay for water. Concierge system was very good. They efficiently handled many situations. I personally owned a rather large company and I sold to Phillips because my employees were not willing to give me the coverage I needed despite huge bonuses and substantially high pay. All in all I dont think this is all doom and gloom and I think FDR made an excellent decision. We will all survive with possibly and hopefully few if any changes. I am booking four more cruises but if the changes are substantial I can still cancel. Let's all try to give it a chance.

[Noxequifans]

Perhaps Prestige was also motivated by the fact that 3 of the Oceania ships are of an earlier vintage (R ships). While extensive refurbishment and maintenance have kept the ships up very well they will be aging out at some point. Also, the trend as evidenced by the two newer O ships is to larger capacity. Of course NCL is more than aware of this but had different motives in the proposal.