Back to back illegal?

[Cruise Junky]

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (sometimes abbreviated to PVSA, Passenger Services Act, or PSA) is a protectionist piece of United States legislation which came into force in 1886 relating to cabotage.

 

It sure is confusing. :confused:

 

Can we all at least agree that in 2014 a law restricting leisure travel by sea makes absolutely no sense. :D

 

Especially ones that are 100 and 130 years old!!!

 

edit Can you imagine if they decided to apply all this to air travel!!!! And you thought travel is a pain now! :D

 

Ah, but they do apply it to air travel. You never see Air Canada doing a LA to NY run. They'll do it from NY to a Canadian city but never between two US cities

[Kamloops50]

What your talking about is an international agreement between some countries.

For example I can fly Cathy Pacific to New York from Vancouver BC and return.

Hong Kong has an agreement between Canada and the US to carry passengers on the leg of the Hong Kong to New York flight (and return).

[cruise kitty]

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (sometimes abbreviated to PVSA, Passenger Services Act, or PSA) is a protectionist piece of United States legislation which came into force in 1886 relating to cabotage.

 

It sure is confusing. :confused:

 

Can we all at least agree that in 2014 a law restricting leisure travel by sea makes absolutely no sense. :D

 

Especially ones that are 100 and 130 years old!!!

 

edit Can you imagine if they decided to apply all this to air travel!!!! And you thought travel is a pain now! :D

 

It does apply to Air Travel, that's why you're stuck with horrible U.S. based airlines if you fly within the U.S.

 

Agree that for passenger ships, the law should be modified.

[tunaman2011]

The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (sometimes abbreviated to PVSA, Passenger Services Act, or PSA) is a protectionist piece of United States legislation which came into force in 1886 relating to cabotage.

 

It sure is confusing. :confused:

 

Can we all at least agree that in 2014 a law restricting leisure travel by sea makes absolutely no sense. :D

 

Especially ones that are 100 and 130 years old!!!

 

edit Can you imagine if they decided to apply all this to air travel!!!! And you thought travel is a pain now! :D

 

Greetings

 

Yes it is an old and outdated law that protects US shipbuilders from foreign competition. But getting this law changed has proved to be very difficult. In fact, the law was recently amended to increase the fine to $300. Some laws just have a way of never being repealed/replaced.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[A Sixth?]

Ah, but they do apply it to air travel. You never see Air Canada doing a LA to NY run. They'll do it from NY to a Canadian city but never between two US cities

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's not the same thing.

 

If someone flew American Airlines from Seattle to Vancouver to Seattle than onto Hawaii that wouldn't be allowed?

 

Pretty sure it is.

[Cruise Junky]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's not the same thing.

 

If someone flew American Airlines from Seattle to Vancouver to Seattle than onto Hawaii that wouldn't be allowed?

 

Pretty sure it is.

 

You won't find that route, two or three plane changes at least. You can easily do the route on a ship, but you can't do it on the same ship.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Cruise Junky

[AlanAllyn]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's not the same thing.

 

If someone flew American Airlines from Seattle to Vancouver to Seattle than onto Hawaii that wouldn't be allowed?

 

Pretty sure it is.

The law does not apply here since you are flying a US airline. However, if Air Canada or any other foreign airline on a flight from Seattle to Hawaii with a stop in Vancouver, it would be illegal.

[A Sixth?]

You won't find that route, two or three plane changes at least. You can easily do the route on a ship, but you can't do it on the same ship.

 

So you're saying that if a AA Aircraft was scheduled to do that exact route, same plane clearing customs at every stop, requiring security and re-boarding that would be illegal?

 

The insanity of it all is giving me a head-ache. :p

[Cruise Junky]

So you're saying that if a AA Aircraft was scheduled to do that exact route, same plane clearing customs at every stop, requiring security and re-boarding that would be illegal?

 

The insanity of it all is giving me a head-ache. :p

 

No, it would be fine because it's a US airline. A US ship could do it too, problem is, there's only Pride of America that's a regular cruise ship that is registered as a US ship.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Cruise Junky

[Kamloops50]

The law does not apply here since you are flying a US airline. However, if Air Canada or any other foreign airline on a flight from Seattle to Hawaii with a stop in Vancouver, it would be illegal.

 

Thru code-share agreements airlines do this all the time.

For example I flew from Kamloops BC to Calgary AB on Air Canada .

It was a code share with Delta and United. In other words you could buy tickets from Delta or United for this flight.

I've seen this many times on flight within Canada and the US.

[A Sixth?]

No, it would be fine because it's a US airline. A US ship could do it too, problem is, there's only Pride of America that's a regular cruise ship that is registered as a US ship.

 

And yet here on the Cruise Critic it comes up all the time that Celebrity is an American Company and bound by US laws.... :o

 

I think I'm having a stroke!!! :p:p

[Cruise Junky]

And yet here on the Cruise Critic it comes up all the time that Celebrity is an American Company and bound by US laws.... :o

 

I think I'm having a stroke!!! :p:p

 

It is an American company, but the ships aren't. :) have a drink ;)

[Giorgi-one]

Don't these rules apply to the ships. I did not think they applied to passengers.

[cruisestitch]

Read the whole law. You're only stroking out because you haven't read it. There is a difference between being a US cruise company and having a ship which meets the requirements.

[Cruise Junky]

Thru code-share agreements airlines do this all the time.

For example I flew from Kamloops BC to Calgary AB on Air Canada .

It was a code share with Delta and United. In other words you could buy tickets from Delta or United for this flight.

I've seen this many times on flight within Canada and the US.

 

A code share is irrelevant to this conversation. You won't be flying on Canadian Metal from one US city to another.

[A Sixth?]

It is an American company, but the ships aren't. :) have a drink ;)

 

Good idea!

 

[robsmom]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's not the same thing.

 

If someone flew American Airlines from Seattle to Vancouver to Seattle than onto Hawaii that wouldn't be allowed?

 

Pretty sure it is.

 

This is probably not the best example as American Airlines is a US airline so it is allowed to fly from US city to US city. You can fly to vancouver and back and then on to hawaii if you so desire.

 

If Celebrity had a US flagged ship, i think it could go between any US cities anytime it wanted.

 

Similarly, Foreign Airlines are not allowed to fly between US cities. There are some exceptionsit is a refueling type of stop. e.g. Qantas can fly from Sydney to LAX and then onto NY. US passengers can not get on in LA and just do the US leg.

 

I don't think you could take an Air Canada flight from Seattle to Vancouver and then continue on the same plane from Vancouver to Hawaii. However, i don't think there is anything to stop you from taking one Air Canada flight to Vancouver and then another to Hawaii. In this sense I think air laws are similar to the PVSA laws.

Edited December 7, 2014 by robsmom

[tunaman2011]

And yet here on the Cruise Critic it comes up all the time that Celebrity is an American Company and bound by US laws.... :o

 

I think I'm having a stroke!!! :p:p

 

Greetings

 

Ownership has nothing to do with this law. The ships themselves are what's being regulated. To carry passengers between US ports the ship must have a US Coast Guard Coastwise certificate. Foreign flagged ships (almost all cruise ships) do not have this certificate.

 

I have a coastwise certified vessel behind my house and have a US Coast Guard captain's license so I am allowed to transport passengers. Foreign captains on foreign vessels cannot.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[BKFlowerMound]

I don't think you could take an Air Canada flight from Seattle to Vancouver and then continue on the same plane from Vancouver to Hawaii. However, i don't think there is anything to stop you from taking one Air Canada flight to Vancouver and then another to Hawaii. In this sense I think air laws are similar to the PVSA laws.

 

 

Airline protectionism is more stringent than this example. It doesn't make a difference if the plane is the same. Air Canada cannot even sell a ticket or a combination of tickets that ends up transporting a passenger from SEA to HNL even though you change planes in YVR. Similarly, United Airlines couldn't sell a ticket from Montreal to Vancouver with a plane change in Chicago. And, yes, they have some systems in place that can and do catch people trying to do this and will refund these types of tickets to avoid stiff government fines.

 

Yes this is protectionism and all governments do it.

[IWORK2CRUISE]

Back to back on the same ship.

 

If I were to take an Alaska cruise on a different ship and get off that ship in Vancouver, would it then be legal to take Solstice from Vancouver to Hawaii, the same day, or the next day?

 

That would be legal from all that I have seen and read.