Caribbean Overnights - From Celebrity's eyes

[villauk]

 

If I lived in a jurisdiction where the deposit was large and non-refundable the way to protect myself as a consumer is the purchase of Cancel for any Reason insurance As others have stated, never heard of this being available in the UK - definitely a non standard ;).

 

Well I read the thread title and knew immediately that I didn't really need to read the posts. Through Celebrity's eyes it looks like this...

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Their desperate nickel and diming exploits of late really do make them look cheap.

 

Mynki,

 

I think you missed a $ :D, and I did count them all :p.

[Evangaline]

Evangaline assume Celebrity didn't have overnights in Istanbul, but upon review they have decided that the experience (and yes their own profits also from higher demand for these cruises) will be higher by introducing them.

 

So they announce that in 2018 they will commence. You or someone else in your situation would be howling that why couldn't they make the change now so you could also get the experience on your booked cruise, since in your view it is so clearly a great idea and really what does it cost them. Shouldn't they reward their long time customers who sometimes book years in advance with this little bonus. Why don't they care about their long time customers, clearly they just care about new customers booking future cruises.

 

Clearly the issue isn't that they made a change its that people have decided they don't like the change and some how Celebrities judgment on what they term an improvement is flawed because it doesn't match your own.

 

I think you completely misunderstood what I said. Not sure what you believed I thought was a good idea, but whatever.

 

Anyway for the record, I simply stated that cruise lines should not change itineraries for frivolous reasons after the cruises are released for sale even if they can legally do what they please. (Adding overnights in the Caribbean counts for frivolous, in my view.) People understandably find this upsetting. They are no longer getting the cruise they purchased and are planning.

 

I further stated that even when the changes are for good reasons such as the earlier ports on my upcoming cruise, where the ports became borderline war zones, people were deeply upset. In this situation it was a good idea, because tourists exploring war zones is a bad idea in my humble opinion.

 

My only other humble opinion was that while overnights make sense in Europe, I really don't think it does in the Caribbean, but I don't feel strongly about this. I just would not be roaming around Cartagena after dark unless escorted with armed body guards. But that's just me.

 

And that is about it.

[mdcelebrity]

Having reviewed a number of threads related to the issue of Caribbean overnight stays wanted to share my own analysis. They say sometime its best to see things from the other side.

 

 

Handling of the Announcement

On the Cruise Critic board, Celebrity is perceived to have botched the roll-out of the Caribbean overnights especially in the eyes of avid cruisers who tend to book cruises well in advance and likely are more port sensitive given the repeated visits to some of them. Specifically it Bonaire which has less than two dozen cruise visits a year is the biggest point of contention since repeat cruisers wanted to experience it but the overall lack on infrastructure of big cruise ship centric destinations (shops, high capacity tour companies they can work with, scale to allow for some staff in the port) was also what likely made it the obvious cut.

 

Still I think that once Celebrity decided to make the change there was no perfect solution since to short a fuse for shift over meant disrupting a large number of existing bookings, while on the converse a long lead in time would have resulted in many people deferring bookings if they see a real differentiation and value in Celebrity’s overnight program and some people feeling they missed the experience. Don’t forget that just because you don’t like the idea of overnights doesn’t mean to many people the idea of being more embedded in the culture of the Caribbean by spending an evening on one of the islands but having the benefits of the cruise ship which might be perceived as a huge positive especially for a first time cruiser. In the end if your marketing this as an upgraded experience then the safer approach is do it sooner and stand behind it proudly stating that you’ve improved the experience for all.

 

Why do overnights?

Some of the items below have varying degrees of benefit, not saying any one item alone justifies but collectively it could

 

• Marketing value from being an innovator by offering more overnights in the Caribbean than other cruise lines. In a market where all offers are starting to muddle together, any differentiation you can offer needs to be looked at.
  
• Ability to upsell more experiential excursions not possible in single days or without the evenings.
  
• A new experience to offer long time cruisers who may feel that the same old itineraries are getting stale
  
• Lower load factors on the restaurants with passengers eating on shore for the evening but this is offset by likely weaker sell through in the specialty restaurants
  
• Reduction in costs related to docking, my understanding is that many (not all) ports don’t actually charge the boats on a daily basis but essentially for docking and undocking. So port charges are same for a single day or an overnight
  
• Don't need to support added relationships with vendors in a low frequency port which may provide some added streamlining in operations
  
• Depending if they dock overnight in a port where they are permitted to keep operating the casino and shops (possible in some jurisdictions I suspect) they may not see a loss on this front either.
  
• Some time off the boat for the staff. Talking to staff it was clear they really appreciated the overnight in Venice and Barcelona (and it wasn’t about the cities) on our med cruise because generally the boat does slow down and they can have a relaxed evening out themselves. Happy staff can have numerous spillover benefits in terms of the general mood of everyone on board.
  

 

I realize all of the above may only further annoy those who feel they have been wronged by Celebrity because they lost out on a port they feel they were committed to receiving from them. I can just say that in my view Celebrity is trying (or at least marketing) a unique experience with the overnights and one of the best aspects of cruising for me is that they take care of things and I can just go with the flow. Look past the annoyance and try to find your own positive from the new possibilities this experience brings.

 

1. Thank you for this very detailed, and well thought out, analysis. Snark-free and fact-full. In any relationship there are two sides. It must appear, at times, that we consumers want more and more, yet want to pay the same or less. In any relationship, there are responsibilities for each member of that relationship. Thank you for reminding us of that.

 

2. Let me offer a personal anecdote:

This year, on the Equinox, my beloved Dee and I took a ten day cruise. This vacation, which was to be our tenth anniversary celebration, was a disaster: for personal reasons (my work), not due to anything Celebrity. Being with someone who is uber-stressed is no treat, believe me. On-board we were presented the opportunity to book the 7Feb2016 trip on Eclipse. This trip included a stop in Bonaire. We have been trying to book a visit to Bonaire for several years now. However, the flights and land arrangements were too costly for our budgets. My Dee is an avid snorkeler so this was the perfect opportunity to experience what may consider the best snorkel/dive site in the Caribbean. Our local dive shop has gone there sixteen years in a row. I had hoped to make this a special treat for my love (and to make up for my transgressions!). I hoped to do an excursion with a small group, hopefully with CC friends, or even a private trip for two. This would be an especially perfect occasion since our anniversary and Valentine's Day occur in the middle of the trip. Everything lined up so nicely. Now I have to disappoint my Dee once again. Since Dee is a breast cancer survivor, I know that we should treasure every day, but also strive to made certain days a treasure. So ... what was supposed to be a "special occasion" is now "just another trip". Sad.

I know that Celebrity monitors these boards. It is hoped that the foregoing paragraph, at least, will be made available to Celebrity executives, in order to put a human face to the decision making. (We are blessed to have an X-Rep on this forum that is empathetic and helpful.)

 

3. The Original Poster (and others) have made a compelling financial case for Celebrity's actions. An even more economically advantageous argument can be made for the abandonment of itineraries for chartering. This illustrates the dilemma that many corporations, especially American companies, are facing these days: short-term gain versus long term results. Previously Celebrity benefited from increasing customer loyalty (as evidenced by the number of Elite ++ members on-board), from the multiplier effect where guests told friends and strangers about the Xperience. From folks who "would never take a cruise" now have a boat trip as the primary vacation alternative and Celebrity as their first (only?!) choice. Fast forward to today: when does "A Step Above" become "we are mad as h*ll and are not going to take it anymore". Folks, then, can, obviously, vote with their feet and choose something else for their vacations. More subtly, perhaps, is the remaining demographic will be those whose sole determinate is *cost*. This has consequences for fares and for on-board spending. Ironically, this would put Celebrity in competition with neighbors just down the street from their Miami HQ. Is that the business plan?

[mdcelebrity]

Having reviewed a number of threads related to the issue of Caribbean overnight stays wanted to share my own analysis. They say sometime its best to see things from the other side.

 

 

Handling of the Announcement

On the Cruise Critic board, Celebrity is perceived to have botched the roll-out of the Caribbean overnights especially in the eyes of avid cruisers who tend to book cruises well in advance and likely are more port sensitive given the repeated visits to some of them. Specifically it Bonaire which has less than two dozen cruise visits a year is the biggest point of contention since repeat cruisers wanted to experience it but the overall lack on infrastructure of big cruise ship centric destinations (shops, high capacity tour companies they can work with, scale to allow for some staff in the port) was also what likely made it the obvious cut.

 

Still I think that once Celebrity decided to make the change there was no perfect solution since to short a fuse for shift over meant disrupting a large number of existing bookings, while on the converse a long lead in time would have resulted in many people deferring bookings if they see a real differentiation and value in Celebrity’s overnight program and some people feeling they missed the experience. Don’t forget that just because you don’t like the idea of overnights doesn’t mean to many people the idea of being more embedded in the culture of the Caribbean by spending an evening on one of the islands but having the benefits of the cruise ship which might be perceived as a huge positive especially for a first time cruiser. In the end if your marketing this as an upgraded experience then the safer approach is do it sooner and stand behind it proudly stating that you’ve improved the experience for all.

 

Why do overnights?

Some of the items below have varying degrees of benefit, not saying any one item alone justifies but collectively it could

 

• Marketing value from being an innovator by offering more overnights in the Caribbean than other cruise lines. In a market where all offers are starting to muddle together, any differentiation you can offer needs to be looked at.
  
• Ability to upsell more experiential excursions not possible in single days or without the evenings.
  
• A new experience to offer long time cruisers who may feel that the same old itineraries are getting stale
  
• Lower load factors on the restaurants with passengers eating on shore for the evening but this is offset by likely weaker sell through in the specialty restaurants
  
• Reduction in costs related to docking, my understanding is that many (not all) ports don’t actually charge the boats on a daily basis but essentially for docking and undocking. So port charges are same for a single day or an overnight
  
• Don't need to support added relationships with vendors in a low frequency port which may provide some added streamlining in operations
  
• Depending if they dock overnight in a port where they are permitted to keep operating the casino and shops (possible in some jurisdictions I suspect) they may not see a loss on this front either.
  
• Some time off the boat for the staff. Talking to staff it was clear they really appreciated the overnight in Venice and Barcelona (and it wasn’t about the cities) on our med cruise because generally the boat does slow down and they can have a relaxed evening out themselves. Happy staff can have numerous spillover benefits in terms of the general mood of everyone on board.
  

 

I realize all of the above may only further annoy those who feel they have been wronged by Celebrity because they lost out on a port they feel they were committed to receiving from them. I can just say that in my view Celebrity is trying (or at least marketing) a unique experience with the overnights and one of the best aspects of cruising for me is that they take care of things and I can just go with the flow. Look past the annoyance and try to find your own positive from the new possibilities this experience brings.

 

It is interesting that X has restored Bonaire in 2017 for essentially the same cruise from which Bonaire was deleted (after taking orders for same): "Exotic Southern Caribbean" in February. Could it be that Celebrity has actually listened to their customers? In this case Antigua was eliminated for an overnight (Aruba), which should be a lot more palatable to customers (especially their more loyal travelers). It is hoped that the promise to make the overnight experience in the Caribbean something special might be better realized than it is currently, where, for example, the only Evening excursion offered in Curacao is early evening (winery tour) which would have been doable even with the original, now lost, 2016 itinerary (Curacao--currently overnight--originally had a 11PM departure). They need to do better with Evenings-Around-The-World-In-The-Caribbean to sell that concept, or risk the perception of "yet another money grab at customers' expense". Progress?? we shall see.

 

BTW, if "Evenings Around The World" is soooo important to X, why doesn't the Evenings selection work correctly on the Web site, when selecting Shore Excursions for a booked cruise?!

[florence11]

I booked the Eclipse for April 2016 before the itinerary change. I really don't mind the stopover in Curacao I think it will make a nice change to go into town for the evening instead of rushing back to the ship, and the late departure in Barbados will make a nice change. I think they should do more of them but only on certain islands where it is easy access into a town. I am probably the only one that thinks like this.

[OCruisers]

In MY opinion, Celebrity should have rolled out this CHANGE when they rolled outthe 2018 itineraries. Had they done that, they would have certainly avoided all of the flak they are now getting.

 

 

Agree, it would have been so much better if Celebrity had waited until 2018 to do this.

[hcat]

Agree, it would have been so much better if Celebrity had waited until 2018 to do this.

 

Agree...and they also cancel cruises in favor of charters without much concern for those losing out!

 

We lost a full day in Belize for an overnight in Cozumel, where they are offering a bonfire on the beach....how exciting is that...not.

[Fouremco]

With Celebrity's changes made after our booking, we are stuck overnight in Barbados on Easter Sunday and miss the originally scheduled stop in Grenada, an island we were very much looking forward to having only visited there once previously.

 

I have no objection at all with Celebrity making this change in itinerary, but as so many others have said, it should have been introduced with the rollout of the 2018 itineraries.

[Mill99]

On UK bookings if those changes are major(need to be more than a single change) then there is the full refund option with compensation for unrecoverable expenses.

 

I have just started lookking at X again so need to research what chages are being made to comment further.

 

My Caribbean itinerary was changed approx. 8 months before sailing to drop a port and overnight in Cartagena - and I probably could have got the £300 deposit refunded if I'd pushed hard enough, but by then we'd booked the air travel to get to Fort Lauderdale to get the ship and this wasn't refundable. So £1500 in with flights I'm not going to cancel the cruise because of the itinerary change am I?

 

I object to the fact that I booked one holiday and for no good reason Celebrity changed the itinerary, dropped a port we were looking forward to and gave me an overnight somewhere there isn't enough to do to fill 2 days.

 

For me, the Caribbean is a long haul destination - we want to see as many of the places as possible - that's why we choose to cruise there. What I really object to is my choosing one itinerary and having another one effectively pushed on me.

 

It has made me think twice about booking any future cruises - I don't have the time or the money for loads of long haul holidays and when I book one, I want the holiday I booked, not the one that somebody in the marketing department decided I should have.

 

However, we will go and we'll enjoy the holiday - no point in not. But I probably won't book another cruise.

[Mill99]

It's almost a silly issue for Celebrity to allow to continue. There are two aspects to consider....

 

 

2) Other non-refundable costs such as insurance (it's too early for folks to have incurred non-refundable airline costs). I think the folks who bought insurance and decide to cancel have to eat that cost...just as if they had cancelled the cruise for any other reason, prior to departure. Sounds harsh...but that's the cost of buying insurance when you book a ticket vs just before final payment (which is what we now do after cancelling a couple of cruises where we had bought insurance).

 

IMHO...if Celebrity would just stop long enough to think about the issue in the UK....there would no longer be an issue.

 

 

Errr, no it wasn't too early to have incurred airline costs. We had - to get the flights we want we booked 8 months before the holiday - not excessive I think.

[Mill99]

I think perhaps as a "novice" cruiser I simply hadn't realised how capricious cruise lines (well, Celebrity at any rate) can be. If I'd booked a land-based holiday I wouldn't expect the tour operator to change my hotel, resort or package for no good reason (a good reason being that the country has become a war zone or the hotel has fallen down). I also wouldn't expect them to cancel my holiday because they'd booked out the resort or hotel for say a conference (i.e. Celebrity cancelling cruises to take a charter on a ship).

 

The fact that this seems to be routine practice by Celebrity puts me off booking cruises at all - I research holidays carefully and I spend too much money on them to just be sent somewhere I don't want to be.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mill99

[hcat]

I think perhaps as a "novice" cruiser I simply hadn't realised how capricious cruise lines (well, Celebrity at any rate) can be. If I'd booked a land-based holiday I wouldn't expect the tour operator to change my hotel, resort or package for no good reason (a good reason being that the country has become a war zone or the hotel has fallen down). I also wouldn't expect them to cancel my holiday because they'd booked out the resort or hotel for say a conference (i.e. Celebrity cancelling cruises to take a charter on a ship).

 

The fact that this seems to be routine practice by Celebrity puts me off booking cruises at all - I research holidays carefully and I spend too much money on them to just be sent somewhere I don't want to be.

 

Glad you are enlightened....good insurance that includes flights, and "cancel any reason" is helpful....and then hope you are not one of the unlucky ones...

 

This cycle on X was worse than usual for changes...so hope chances are better in the next booking cycle.