Viking payment in full

[CPT Trips]

Options---

So you can pay 100% when booking (or up to 90 days later depending on arrangements made with Viking) and it is 100% REFUNDABLE minus $100 if cancelled up to 121 days before sailing..after that, sliding scale up to 29 days pre sailing.

 

vs pay a deposit that may or may not be refundable depending on various cruise lines then pay the rest 90- 120 days before sailing.

 

First scenario the cruise line has your money to 'invest' ..and yes maybe builds or borrows to build some boats with it.

 

The second scenario, YOU have your money to invest at maybe 0.5 - 4.0% return.

 

Not a huge difference in my opinion...it is more the 'principle' of the thing I suspect.

 

It's more than principle . . . Some lines discount the fare, up to 10%, if you pay in full in advance.

[CPT Trips]

I really hate that I'm contributing to keeping this thread open; and I ask this with all due respect. Do you refuse to fly airlines that demand payment when you make a reservation?

Frank

 

If my alternative is to not fly, then I will pay when I reserve. But, there are alternatives when I river cruise, so I do not pay in advance. As flying in general and Airport Security Screening in particular are beyond being a hassle, we basically no longer cruise out of FL (requires flying) preferring to drive to more convenient ports. Flying to Europe for a cruise is another matter.

[Oceans&Rivers]

It's more than principle . . . Some lines discount the fare, up to 10%, if you pay in full in advance.

 

Exactly. Some ocean cruise lines offer discounts, too, though I have not seen 10%

[Mark_T]

I just went back and reread every post I have made in any of the River Cruise threads since January of this year. I found quite a number of posts that mention Viking (although approximately equal numbers dealing with several other major lines), and every one consisted of statements of facts.[

 

Since you have raised it again, I'd only ask that you do indeed limit your comments to 'facts' when referring to lines that you have no personal experience of sailing on, that is something we would all do well to bear in mind I think.

 

All too often opinion with no personal experience is presented as fact and you are not an exception to that despite your belief to the contrary.

[notamermaid]

Here is an odd fact: I have mentioned in another thread that there used to be a company called Viking Flusskreuzfahrten. It was the German company which had bought the large KD cruise ships (Köln Düsseldorfer Dampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft - one of the oldest in the world of that kind). Again, company history shortened dramatically by me.

 

A google find reveales that KD Flussreisen/Viking did this 2 for 1 offer in Germany as well! The page dates from somewhere in 2009.

 

Back to today: A comparison of the Viking online pages for the Elegant Elbe itinerary - for example - shows that the 2 for 1 offer is not part of the "UK strategy" but very much so part of the "US strategy". Viking uses the offer for the longships, as they write, the UK site does not list the longships for the Elbe cruises. But gives a savings offer on the dates & pricing page. Somewhat puzzling.

 

http://www.vikingrivercruises.co.uk/

 

http://www.vikingrivercruises.com/

 

Terms & Conditions are similar as regards payment, i.e. x days prior to departure, with special conditions for the offers.

 

But if the only prices given online for an itinerary are all 2 for 1 offers, how can you not pay one year in advance but the standard x days before departure, as would be normal? :confused: I think I will diplomatically keep quiet at this point...

 

notamermaid

 

Nice warm days in the Rhine valley, the water level has noticeably fallen, but all is fine. Hope for scattered showers to keep my rain water tub full.

[Mark_T]

Don't keep quiet, you raise a valid point :)

 

The more this sort of 'tap-dancing' around the price is given the light of day the more quickly Viking may be forced to stop doing it.

 

A lot of the cruise lines have moved away from this even in the USA, but some still hold onto it.

 

The more people resist and book elsewhere if Viking will not change then the quicker they may see the need to change.

[biker1972]

Is it our goal here to remake Viking policies and advertising into our image of what they should be? We are not on their board of directors and what they are currently doing seems to be working for them. Is it that you really want to cruise with them but object to their philosophy? I do not like the way Walmart treats their suppliers by forcing them to make products to meet Walmart's costs requirements, but I know that I will not get them to change their business model. I just try not to shop there. Viking is a business that is making money (most likely) and doing things their way. Let's agree to these facts and let it go. There is no moral high ground to stake a claim to since it is just business.

[JVilleGal]

Well after reading this thread I can well imagine why Viking has banned me from their FB page. They certainly would not want their customers to come across anything written here!

[notamermaid]

I think it is my (moral) duty to point out that since the closure of Viking Flusskreuzfahrten I have to book through the Viking website, i.e. directly with the company, or a very specialised TA whom I would be hardpressed to find around where I live. If I wanted to travel with them.

 

Informed choice is what the point of my post was. Informed choice when buying a product (including a product of the travel industry) often becomes more difficult when a specific product (again in any sphere of consumer spending) becomes dominant in marketing and advertising. Comparing is essential, I believe, when it comes to spending money. For your purse, comfort, pleasure, ease of living, etc.

 

What the comparison leads you to choose in the end is what you need to be happy with. If you are not, hopefully, time and money will then permit you a different choice in the future.

 

Please note that the "you" in my sentences does not refer to a specific person.

 

notamermaid

[pacmom]

We have taken 20 river cruises--4 with Viking. Our first the Elbe was wonderful. Our second Antwerp-Basel was soso. Our third in Russia was not good at all--complained here on the boards and was contacted by Viking offering a substantial voucher toward another trip in the next year. Told the rep we would not take it because we already had the next year planned. They then extended the offer and we used it for China--which I think is the jewel of their line. We also said that we would not pay more than a year in advance--got it down to 7 months before trip. We were not looking for compensation and if they had not extended the offer, we would not have been upset--just saved a bit more til we could totally afford the China trip. Do not like the home office way of doing business, but the crews on the boats have been wonderful. We are truly blessed to have so many choices for use of our leisure time and our money. We always try to do it wisely, but don't always succeed. Travel safely and enjoy. Pat

[Mark_T]

Is it our goal here to remake Viking policies and advertising into our image of what they should be?

 

No, it is more that many people here see it as a significant impediment which is preventing them from even considering Viking.

 

Viking do not follow this same policy in all markets, so it is not something that they regard as an immutable policy either.

 

As I've said before, if enough people continue to accept it then they will keep doing it. Why wouldn't they as it is very good for their cash-flow :)

 

At the very least, threads like this serve to highlight that even though they ask for full payment, when pushed they will often agree to something rather closer to departure so forewarned, members here who object to the policy can at least consider Viking and see if they can get enough of a variation to satisfy their needs.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Mark_T

[TravelerThom]

I don't think so. I think it is fair game and I find their practice disconcerting.

 

 

 

I am a shareholder in RCL (Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd.) and make comments about financial stuff regarding RCL whenever I feel like it, as I did today on the Azamara forum.

 

Does Viking trade on the US Stock Exchange? If so (or even if not), does it trade as a public corporation in Norway, either as Viking or as something else (eg a parent company)? Do you know their stock symbol?

 

I think it is fair to consider that there may be a cash flow "situation" inherent in the requirement to pay so far in advance.

I don't think that Viking or its parent MISA Investments Limited is publicly traded. However Moody's rates Viking bonds as B3 "highly speculative". The next lower rating is C "Default imminent with little prospect for recovery". IMO this bond rating raises some questions, and I am not comfortable with putting my money into such a situation without insurance against default (which I'm pretty sure is NOT covered if get Viking offered insurance).

 

Thom

[remydiva]

People are concerned, upset, or angry that they are 'forced' to pay in full when booking Viking.

 

This thread, and countless others, appear to be vacillating between 'informing' others to down right Viking bashing.

 

At risk of contributing to this thread to keep it going, I offer these pics from a recent email from UNIWORLD. I have sailed with both Uniworld and Viking just for the record. Viking is not alone in asking for full payment at time of booking when they are promoting a sale. Viking has more 'sales' than most but they are not unique.

 

Note the lines that say:

Cruise & Air Savings require full payment of Uniworld cruise or cruise/tour

and air at time of booking on select 2015 itineraries and departure dates

 

Granted these are cruises in 2015 so not one year away but the most distant sailing date is Nov 15 which is a full 158 days away from today.

 

So if you don't want to pay according to Viking policies, then don't sail Viking! Vote with your money.

 

Thankfully, we have CHOICES on where to spend our hard earned money and what company we wish to enjoy our leisure time with.

 

And aren't we all so very very lucky.

 

 

 

[hiccups]

We booked one of the Uniworld cruise and air specials in February for an August 1 sailing, and had to pay in full. I mentioned that on the board previously and people seemed to make a distinction between a sale fare and the Viking policy, possibly because of how far in advance Viking requires payment.

[JVilleGal]

I think there is a pretty big difference between the occasional "Promo" offer by Uniworld or others, or the option offered to pay in advance and get 10% off.

 

When it comes to Viking their 2 for 1 Sale is an ongoing and constant thing, in fact if you actually double those per person fares you can see for they are "delusional" and certainly do not appear to represent true fares based on any other river cruise of similar itineraries. Of course with those as the actual fares Viking would have many many empty longships. But according to the "terms & conditions" of the 2 for 1 promos you have to pay in full pretty much at time of booking to get that fare. I

 

I think this makes the business model completely different for Viking who seems to required pmt in full for majority of North American passengers vs occasional Promos offered by other lines req PIF at booking.

 

Just my opinion and I did vote with my wallet when Viking policies made no sense!

Edited June 10, 2015 by JVilleGal

[Oceans&Rivers]

I don't think that Viking or its parent MISA Investments Limited is publicly traded. However Moody's rates Viking bonds as B3 "highly speculative". The next lower rating is C "Default imminent with little prospect for recovery". IMO this bond rating raises some questions, and I am not comfortable with putting my money into such a situation without insurance against default (which I'm pretty sure is NOT covered if get Viking offered insurance).

 

Thank you for that information. I agree with you that the bond rating is something to be concerned about.

 

Thanks to the information you provided, I found the following on Moodys.com. Interesting reading...

 

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-assigns-a-B3-rating-to-Viking-Cruises-new-250--PR_324517#

Edited June 11, 2015 by Oceans&Rivers