What would you do about "scaled back" cruise?

[bonvoyagebites]

We have been fortunate to not (YET) have been in this situation, but I certainly understand your frustration. Your vegetarian analogy seems to sum up the experience quite well. I look forward to hearing how HAL decides to deal with the situation. Like others stated, I am not sure that you should expect much (and I am sure you really don't) , but good customer service is very important, and I look forward to hearing more.

[frankc98376]

Appears the same group is booked on Amsterdam on 02 August cruise

[serendipity1499]

Did you eat 3 or 4 or 5 or more meals each day? Did the ship go to each port, as scheduled? Did the cruise start or end as scheduled? Were the bars open, the drinks cold? Was your cabin cleaned every day- twice?

 

If the answers to each are yes, I don't think you have much to complain about.

 

Having been on two, back to back cruises with 500 people on each, in groups, we experienced almost zero impact on our cruise. We noticed one or perhaps two venues occupied each day, but they weren't venues we would normally use at those times anyway. No impact on our cruise.

 

Just because there was no impact on your enjoyment of your cruise, does not mean the OP has no right to complain..

 

I believe they were impacted because early entertainment was closed..Talks which were advertised were cancelled..

 

I completely agree with sail7seas & Kazu..The OP should send a written letter to HAL explaining why their cruise was impacted & see what HAL offers them.. Unfortunately, it happens often on all cruise lines but Psgrs should be given the option to cancel & re-book if some venues will be closed & impact their enjoyment.. Closing a venue such as the Crows Nest & having to leave the AFT pool every afternoon, would get me riled up too..

 

Sadly what you describe happens on most main line cruise companies and it a great inconvenience to those not a part of the group. I truly feel for you as we encountered a similar situation once. It doesn't matter what the group is but rather that they have priority for everything and as you say activities are cut and access to venues is denied in favor of the group.

 

What irks me is even is directly asked, most cruise lines will not answer directly and advise how large the group is or usually will not even confirm there is a group. The reason for that is obvious.

 

In contrast to Cruiser Bruce, we were denied access to Crows Nest every night of the cruise, we were forced to leave aft pool on a beautiful day at sea in the Caribbean so the group could have a private pool party and more of that sort of thing.

 

I don't know what you should ask for and what is reasonable (if anything) to expect. By all means, advise headquarters customer relations people in Seattle and have your TA follow through with conversations. This is by far not the first nor likely the last this large group experience occurs. They pay a lot of money and as we know, it's all about revenue.

 

 

Sail I understand your annoyance about cruise lines not answering your questions about how many are in a group, but legally the cruise Line can't give out this info to the public..

 

To the OP: Please come back & let us know if you have been satisfied with HAL's answer to you complaints.. You put it very well on this forum, without rancor..

[Windsailer]

I expressed my concern to HAL several years ago (on FB) when it appeared that a large group would be on a cruise I was scheduled to take. I received a letter saying that HAL Group Administration Dept would be happy to let me know if a group would be onboard. They did let me know and I cancelled my reservation.

 

I second the suggestions that you contact the HAL President's Office. I would not have wanted to be on your cruise.

[I_r_a]

Hey KD,

 

Tell HAL what you told us.

 

I think you should get a $200 OBC on your next cruise.

 

Ira

[serendipity1499]

Hey KD,

 

Tell HAL what you told us.

 

I think you should get a $200 OBC on your next cruise.

 

Ira

 

 

Is that all???:D:D:D

[DaveOKC]

Hey KD,

 

Tell HAL what you told us.

 

I think you should get a $200 OBC on your next cruise.

 

Ira

 

It likely depends on how much you paid for your cruise. They could also give you something like free massages, wine packages, etc.

[lazey1]

You are a clear and good writer and you present your case eloquently. I second the suggestion to let HAL know your feelings -- in writing.

 

Agree that you are an excellent writer. My suggestion would be that you write to HAL yourself explaining your frustrations and let HAL know that you are sending a copy of your letter to your travel agent. I would not ask for any recompense as I have found that you get better compensation when it is HAL's idea not your own.

 

Let your travel agent act for you in requesting compensation a few days after your letter has been sent.;)

[clogaltocruise]

That has been successful for us, also.

 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[DaveOKC]

Agree that you are an excellent writer. My suggestion would be that you write to HAL yourself explaining your frustrations and let HAL know that you are sending a copy of your letter to your travel agent. I would not ask for any recompense as I have found that you get better compensation when it is HAL's idea not your own.

 

Let your travel agent act for you in requesting compensation a few days after your letter has been sent.;)

 

Excellent point and this is the way we have handled it in the past.

[JennyT]

So sorry to hear that you had that experience. Now I'm concerned about our upcoming cruise on the Westerdam on Sept. 5th. It looks as though there will be a group on board our cruise too.

 

I would absolutely cancel and reschedule on another date now knowing this, but we specifically chose that cruise because of the Labor Day holiday so I'd only be losing 4 days of work instead of 5.

 

Oh well, I suppose we'll just grin and bear it.

 

OP, please let us know if writing to HAL does any good, and thank you for your post. At least I'm going in forewarned.

[sail7seas]

Just because there was no impact on your enjoyment of your cruise, does not mean the OP has no right to complain..

 

I believe they were impacted because early entertainment was closed..Talks which were advertised were cancelled..

 

I completely agree with sail7seas & Kazu..The OP should send a written letter to HAL explaining why their cruise was impacted & see what HAL offers them.. Unfortunately, it happens often on all cruise lines but Psgrs should be given the option to cancel & re-book if some venues will be closed & impact their enjoyment.. Closing a venue such as the Crows Nest & having to leave the AFT pool every afternoon, would get me riled up too..

 

 

 

Sail I understand your annoyance about cruise lines not answering your questions about how many are in a group, but legally the cruise Line can't give out this info to the public..

 

<snip>

 

You are aware of a Federal Law that forbids a cruise line from answering a question such as: "Is there a large group booked (name a ship) on (state a date) and, if so, how many are in that group?"

 

I don't care what the group actually is. The problem comes from shear numbers and the shutting off of what are usually public spaces for all to enjoy.

 

I think it is a moral obligation to answer that question truthfully. To knowingly deny such information from a paying or prospective paying guest seems disingenuous.

 

If there is such a law, PLEASE share a site with us. I'd be so eager to read it.

Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, we were not forced to leave the pool every afternoon but one gorgeous sea day we were told we had to find someplace else and were shooed away as though we were 'interlopers'. There was no recognition we had all paid to enjoy the use of that pool and surrounding area.

 

Thanks, Betty.

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by sail7seas

[Windsailer]

"...legally the cruise line can't give out this info to the public." Hmmmm...

 

What law is that? First I ever heard of it.

 

And why would HAL specifically tell me (in a letter from the HAL president's Office) that I could call the Group Administration Office and they would tell me?

 

Very confused here....

[arzz]

Could the cruise lines, legally, share that on such and such cruise some public venues will be closed to the public a portion of the time and that normally scheduled lectures, entertainment and other activities may be curtailed or cancelled (without mentioning a specific group or its size)?

[TraelorMex]

I do sympathize. We have been on several cruises with HAL where other 'groups' were present. While we did not know this, it was absolutely no bother whatsoever, nor did it detract in any way from our experience.

 

I do believe that, as in most things, the term ''Caveat Emptor' does apply here. It remains incumbent on the buyer to exercise their due diligence.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

So sorry to hear that you had that experience. Now I'm concerned about our upcoming cruise on the Westerdam on Sept. 5th. It looks as though there will be a group on board our cruise too.

 

I would absolutely cancel and reschedule on another date now knowing this, but we specifically chose that cruise because of the Labor Day holiday so I'd only be losing 4 days of work instead of 5.

 

Oh well, I suppose we'll just grin and bear it.

 

OP, please let us know if writing to HAL does any good, and thank you for your post. At least I'm going in forewarned.

 

Jenny - I see that a medical seminar for anesthesiologists is scheduled to be on your cruise. In my experience, these medical groups are typically small, low-key, and unobtrusive, and do not impact the cruise negatively. Hopefully, that will be your experience as well.

[sail7seas]

Could the cruise lines, legally, share that on such and such cruise some public venues will be closed to the public a portion of the time and that normally scheduled lectures, entertainment and other activities may be curtailed or cancelled (without mentioning a specific group or its size)?

 

Probably Yes, but it isn't likely they would do so.

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

I do sympathize. We have been on several cruises with HAL where other 'groups' were present. While we did not know this, it was absolutely no bother whatsoever, nor did it detract in any way from our experience.

 

I do believe that, as in most things, the term ''Caveat Emptor' does apply here. It remains incumbent on the buyer to exercise their due diligence.

 

How can the buyer beware when the information needed to make a careful, well considered decision is withheld from them?

[JennyT]

Jenny - I see that a medical seminar for anesthesiologists is scheduled to be on your cruise. In my experience, these medical groups are typically small, low-key, and unobtrusive, and do not impact the cruise negatively. Hopefully, that will be your experience as well.

 

Thank you - that helps lighten the anxiety a bit. :)

[serendipity1499]

You are aware of a Federal Law that forbids a cruise line from answering a question such as: "Is there a large group booked (name a ship) on (state a date) and, if so, how many are in that group?"

 

I don't care what the group actually is. The problem comes from shear numbers and the shutting off of what are usually public spaces for all to enjoy.

 

I think it is a moral obligation to answer that question truthfully. To knowingly deny such information from a paying or prospective paying guest seems disingenuous.

 

If there is such a law, PLEASE share a site with us. I'd be so eager to read it.

Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, we were not forced to leave the pool every afternoon but one gorgeous sea day we were told we had to find someplace else and were shooed away as though we were 'interlopers'. There was no recognition we had all paid to enjoy the use of that pool and surrounding area.

 

Thanks, Betty.

 

 

All I know is that in the Airline Industry we were only permitted to give Psgr. Manifest Info & group names out to the FBI, Police, Immigrations, etc.. Those calls had to be transferred to me personally & I had to get the persons Agency, Title, Badge Number, & could only call them back on the published switchboard Numbers ..I could not even call them back on a private line.. If you call any airline today & ask if Jo Smith is on board their flight 0000, I would bet my last dollare that the regulations are the same..

 

I can't quote the law, but I also had to document each & every thing I stated to the law enforcement people.. I had a great deal of paperwork when we got those calls & often a law enforcement Officer would have to come into our office to check those manifests..I would bet that it is the same with Cruise lines..

Edited July 16, 2015 by serendipity1499

[serendipity1499]

Sail7seas..This is the closest I can come to find the law: It's called proprietary information..

 

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_find_out_the_names_of_passengers_on_airline_flights

 

 

Quote Passenger List information is only released (by court order) to official law enforcement organizations. Once the plane has landed, you can call the airline and ask if the passenger was aboard; some people have been able to get this information on rare occasions (if they are immediate family members and there is a personal emergency). The best that you will normally be able to accomplish is to leave a message with the airline, in the event the passenger returns to the desk after landing. Unquote

 

http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V03%20Tech%20Admin/Chapter%2031/03_031_001.htm

 

This PDF discusses those who are authorized to obtain Psgr Manifest info.. This section contains a general overview of proprietary information, the regulatory requirements for recordkeeping under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 121, 125, and 135, and definitions of terms as they relate to operator recordkeeping

 

 

Here's another PDF but I have no idea what this contains: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/pdf/uscode49/lii_usc_TI_49_ST_VII_PA_A_30_iii_CH_449_SC_I_SE_44909.pdf

[Mary Ellen]

Huh? I can't imagine the FBI ever contacted an airline with questions about if a 'large group' was on board. All people are wanting to know if a 'large group' is on their cruise. NO ONE asked if HAL would tell them if specific individuals where on a particular cruise or a list of all passengers names. :confused:

[Khaos WolfKat]

I'm pretty certain that no one is suggesting that a line give out specific information about passengers, such as names or cabin numbers, but rather, disclosing the information that there will be a "group of around N-Nx number or passengers, and that X venues/activities will/may be closed/restricted for all or part of Y cruise".

 

Unless they have been passed, in secret, very recently, I am quite sure that there are no legal restrictions, at all, on releasing that level of information. Further, I agree with the poster who said the lines have a moral (though, I would say, "ethical") obligation to furnish passengers with said information.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Khaos WolfKat

[Fouremco]

Enquiring about the size of a group or what facilities might be tied up by the group is a totally different thing than asking for the passenger manifest. I'm unaware of any legal impediment to HAL providing general information of the nature useful to individual contemplating a cruise but having concerns because there will be a group onboard.

 

Having said that, there is another approach that I have used that has been quite successful: contact a representative of the group. My wife and I were booked on the February 1, 2015, Western Caribbean cruise aboard the Nieuw Amsterdam when I found out that a group would be on the same cruise. I simply Googled the organization, sent an email to the organizer explaining our potential concerns, and received a very nice email back with all the information I needed.

 

I'm sure that HAL could have provided the information, but quite frankly, this was a great deal easier and faster, with a reply within less than 1/2 day.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Fouremco

[sail7seas]

All I know is that in the Airline Industry we were only permitted to give Psgr. Manifest Info & group names out to the FBI, Police, Immigrations, etc.. Those calls had to be transferred to me personally & I had to get the persons Agency, Title, Badge Number, & could only call them back on the published switchboard Numbers ..I could not even call them back on a private line.. If you call any airline today & ask if Jo Smith is on board their flight 0000, I would bet my last dollare that the regulations are the same..

 

I can't quote the law, but I also had to document each & every thing I stated to the law enforcement people.. I had a great deal of paperwork when we got those calls & often a law enforcement Officer would have to come into our office to check those manifests..I would bet that it is the same with Cruise lines..

 

Sail7seas..This is the closest I can come to find the law: It's called proprietary information..

 

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_find_out_the_names_of_passengers_on_airline_flights

 

 

Quote Passenger List information is only released (by court order) to official law enforcement organizations. Once the plane has landed, you can call the airline and ask if the passenger was aboard; some people have been able to get this information on rare occasions (if they are immediate family members and there is a personal emergency). The best that you will normally be able to accomplish is to leave a message with the airline, in the event the passenger returns to the desk after landing. Unquote

 

http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V03%20Tech%20Admin/Chapter%2031/03_031_001.htm

 

This PDF discusses those who are authorized to obtain Psgr Manifest info.. This section contains a general overview of proprietary information, the regulatory requirements for recordkeeping under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 121, 125, and 135, and definitions of terms as they relate to operator recordkeeping

 

 

Here's another PDF but I have no idea what this contains: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/pdf/uscode49/lii_usc_TI_49_ST_VII_PA_A_30_iii_CH_449_SC_I_SE_44909.pdf

 

 

 

Doesn't matter the group name and proprietary information doesn't apply to a generalized question such as I posed above, several times.

 

I don't imagine it is particularly relevant to most whatever the group is, what their name is perhaps with a few exceptions but what matters is the size of the group and what venues will be closed to all guests who are not a part of the group.

 

FBI and proprietary information don't apply IMO but thank you for the effort to explain.

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by sail7seas