Passport vs just birth certificate?

[Sandy Sails]

If you DO decide to go ahead and apply for a passport renewal/name change, I hope you have more than one original of your birth certificate and marriage certificate. Because you have to send both of those documents in with your expired passport. If you don't get the passport back in time for your cruise, at least you'll have another original of both documents to still use for the cruise.

If you don't have two originals, skip the passport request for now and just take your DL, birth certificate and marriage certificate. You'll be fine for this one simple closed loop cruise.

Then when you get home from the cruise, both of you can apply for passport renewals. Although now that I think about it, you may not need to send in a birth certificate just for a passport renewal and name change. Just the marriage certificate and old passport.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Sandy Sails

[TheTruthCanHurt]

I'm still curious as to the actual differences between your short form and your full page versions. Do they both contain your parents names?

 

I ask because I cannot find any reference to a short form version being issued in California; I do find reference to certified copies vs. certified informational copies, but those are identical documents as far as the information contained on them goes. (Not to say short forms couldn't have been issued at some time in the past, either.). But the term 'short-form' generally means an abbreviated set of information, and I am wondering if you have that or something else?

 

it was a strange conversation when I talked to RCCl about it.

the US visa office makes mention of the fact that not all short forms have parents names on them. and it seems, as I recall that the title of the document was a little weird, live record of live birth or something like that.

 

In my case my friend lived in fresno ca.. her son was 17... and because we were told the short form was not ok and out of abundance of caution we went to the city of fresno records dept and just got a brand new full page one.. I dont know if this was only something they did for a short time and then stopped. but for us, it was something like an 11.00 dollar fix and we did not have to worry anymore.

***** update *******

I just googled it and found the short form... it was titled "certified abstract of birth" thats what they refer to as the short form, and thats what she had received for her son.

Edited August 13, 2015 by TheTruthCanHurt

[NewSalt]

We always travel with our passports. However, on our cruise two weeks ago, they "disappeared" between our house and the port. We rushed home, and I grabbed our BC's and my marriage certificate. (I brought the MC because I had had to get a new BC, issued by the state, since the county in which I was born had issued so many fraudulent BC's, notably to the first WTC bombers, and needed to send in the MC to get the state-issued BC).

 

We had no problem using our DL's and the BC's. For peace of mind, I'd always take the passports, but it really wasn't necessary.

[TheTruthCanHurt]

it was a strange conversation when I talked to RCCl about it.

the US visa office makes mention of the fact that not all short forms have parents names on them. and it seems, as I recall that the title of the document was a little weird, live record of live birth or something like that.

 

In my case my friend lived in fresno ca.. her son was 17... and because we were told the short form was not ok and out of abundance of caution we went to the city of fresno records dept and just got a brand new full page one.. I dont know if this was only something they did for a short time and then stopped. but for us, it was something like an 11.00 dollar fix and we did not have to worry anymore.

***** update *******

I just googled it and found the short form... it was titled "certified abstract of birth" thats what they refer to as the short form, and thats what she had received for her son.

 

 

here is a picture of one I found on the internet..

[markeb]

If you DO decide to go ahead and apply for a passport renewal/name change, I hope you have more than one original of your birth certificate and marriage certificate. Because you have to send both of those documents in with your expired passport. If you don't get the passport back in time for your cruise, at least you'll have another original of both documents to still use for the cruise.

If you don't have two originals, skip the passport request for now and just take your DL, birth certificate and marriage certificate. You'll be fine for this one simple closed loop cruise.

Then when you get home from the cruise, both of you can apply for passport renewals. Although now that I think about it, you may not need to send in a birth certificate just for a passport renewal and name change. Just the marriage certificate and old passport.

 

Not according to the State Department site:

 

Submit a U.S. Passport Application by Mail (from within the United States):

Read and understand Steps 1 - 6 before leaving this page.

 

Fill Out Form DS-82: Application For A U.S. Passport by Mail

Submit your most recent U.S. passport book and/or card

Submit a certified copy of your marriage certificate or court order if your name has changed

Pay the Applicable Fee

Provide One Passport Photo

Mail application

 

From: http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/renew.html

 

As long as the passport is less than 15 years old, and the name is the same, it serves as a primary document to establish identity and citizenship for renewal. You don't need to mail a birth certificate of marriage certificate.

[cherylandtk]

here is a picture of one I found on the internet..

Thanks for clarifying. An abstract is a computer generated 'copy' of the birth certificate facts. In this day and age, it as almost the only thing anyone can get anymore. They can be certified or not, and they can be short form or not. In CA, the abstracts (at least now) are all the same long form. I still have my old pre-xerox photostat copy of the actual birth certificate, but if I were to request a new certified copy I will get an abstract. I do think the RCI phone rep was confused about the difference, as abstract/certificate makes no difference as long as it was issued by a government entity and contains the full set of data (including parents names). There was time a few years back when there was a lot of confusion about what was and was not acceptable, but an abstract, properly issued and dated by the registrar, is fine for obtaining a passport. (Well, not the fake one in your picture, obviously, but you know what I mean).

Edited August 13, 2015 by cherylandtk

[majarosh]

Thank you...beat me to the punch about SHORT FORM BC's...took me SIX MONTHS just to get a PASSPORT acceptable LONG FORM. ...then another 2 months to get my passport...1st cruise novice I just about missed my first cruise because of the LF vs SF bull crap. Being that I was adopted (private adoption in 1953)I had to try to get a LF from the state of nj...IF one is adopted in NJ one must CONVERT the SF to the LF...and vital statics in NJ must be run by idiots. ONCE I received the LF I was THEN and ONLY THEN able to obtain a passport. This entire fiasco was only tempered and pushed thru by MY SENATOR here in Florida Marco Rubio ' s office.

[becca5]

Whoops! Didn't mean to cause drama! I'm obviously new here! LOL

 

I went ahead and sent in for the renewal, non expedited. RCCL said I would not need to carry birth cert and marriage cert off the ship but might be asked for both upon check in. I can handle that. I much prefer my passport, but this was such a last minute decision. If my passport gets here, then great. If not, we will still board the ship.

 

And yes, I could just do the renewal since it was issued in the last 15 yrs. old passport and new photos required, but not birth cert.

[dcgrumpy]

Thanks for clarifying. An abstract is a computer generated 'copy' of the birth certificate facts. In this day and age, it as almost the only thing anyone can get anymore. They can be certified or not, and they can be short form or not. In CA, the abstracts (at least now) are all the same long form. I still have my old pre-xerox photostat copy of the actual birth certificate, but if I were to request a new certified copy I will get an abstract. I do think the RCI phone rep was confused about the difference, as abstract/certificate makes no difference as long as it was issued by a government entity and contains the full set of data (including parents names). There was time a few years back when there was a lot of confusion about what was and was not acceptable, but an abstract, properly issued and dated by the registrar, is fine for obtaining a passport. (Well, not the fake one in your picture, obviously, but you know what I mean).

 

 

Doing a quick Google search I see a bunch of websites saying that abstracts from TX and CA are no longer accepted.

 

http://www.cityoforange.org/depts/cityclerk/passport.asp

 

SPECIAL NOTICE - CALIFORNIA BIRTH ABSTRACTS ARE NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE - PASSPORT APPLICANTS BORN IN CALIFORIA MUST SUBMIT LONG FORM PHOTOREPRODUCTION CERTIFIED COPIES OF BIRTH RECORDS

[markeb]

Whoops! Didn't mean to cause drama! I'm obviously new here! LOL

 

I went ahead and sent in for the renewal, non expedited. RCCL said I would not need to carry birth cert and marriage cert off the ship but might be asked for both upon check in. I can handle that. I much prefer my passport, but this was such a last minute decision. If my passport gets here, then great. If not, we will still board the ship.

 

And yes, I could just do the renewal since it was issued in the last 15 yrs. old passport and new photos required, but not birth cert.

 

This isn't drama. :)

 

Now if you'd asked about shorts in the MDR, that would have been drama!

 

Sounds like you've got a plan. Enjoy the cruise!

[TheTruthCanHurt]

Doing a quick Google search I see a bunch of websites saying that abstracts from TX and CA are no longer accepted.

 

http://www.cityoforange.org/depts/cityclerk/passport.asp

 

SPECIAL NOTICE - CALIFORNIA BIRTH ABSTRACTS ARE NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE - PASSPORT APPLICANTS BORN IN CALIFORIA MUST SUBMIT LONG FORM PHOTOREPRODUCTION CERTIFIED COPIES OF BIRTH RECORDS

 

that was my experience.. That's why I posted about it and wanted to make sure that people understood that it might be a problem...but again. Do your own research...

[rudeney]

I don't like to be contentious, but this is totally untrue. From the Dept of State Website you can renew by mail via DS form 82 if:

 

 

 

This means that you can renew through the normal process if your passport has been expired less than 5 years -- I just did it with passports expired for about 9 months.

 

Ah, i think when I got a new passport in 2007, ,mine had been expired more than 5 years, so it was a whole new application process. Thanks for that clarification.

 

Also for those considering Passport Cards, keep in mind they are NOT valid for international air travel.

 

Yeah, I think the main purpose for them is in place of a DL (especially when it isn't REAL ID compliant) for domestic air travel. I didn't bother. i just keep my passport book in the "documents" pocket of my carryon.

[Tunkhannock]

You will not be forever condemned to live in the Bahamas. ;)

You say that like it's a bad thing.... :p

[sparks1093]

We are hopping on a last minute cruise. Was under the impression we could use birth certificate and drivers license instead of passport. Mine expired in April. I'm getting nervous though. My drivers license is my married name. My birth certificate is obviously my birth/maiden name. Is this going to be a problem or hassle? I'm thinking I may pay the rush fee to renew it. We are cruising sept 18th. I don't want to have to carry my marriage certificate as well.

 

I am not going to read all of the comments because I can guess what they are. You will be absolutely fine boarding with your birth certificate and your drivers license on a closed loop cruise and doubly so if you bring your marriage license (we brought ours for every cruise, never had to show it). If you miss the ship for some reason you would need to enlist the aid of the Consulate but you would be able to get home with their assistance. The risk for many passengers is very small for missing the ship or for needing to fly home early (family emergency) so you need to assess your own risk and decide if it is worth it for you. Millions travel every year on closed loop cruises without passports so it isn't as risky as many would suggest.

[sparks1093]

Passports are effectively good for nine and a half years, since they don't want you traveling w/ a passport that expires w/in 6 months.

 

 

That depends on where you are traveling- passports are valid for re-entry to the US up until the day they expire. Some countries do require your passport to have 6 months remaining past the date when your trip ends.

[FLACRUISER99]

Whoops! Didn't mean to cause drama! I'm obviously new here! LOL

 

I went ahead and sent in for the renewal, non expedited. RCCL said I would not need to carry birth cert and marriage cert off the ship but might be asked for both upon check in. I can handle that. I much prefer my passport, but this was such a last minute decision. If my passport gets here, then great. If not, we will still board the ship.

 

And yes, I could just do the renewal since it was issued in the last 15 yrs. old passport and new photos required, but not birth cert.

Glad you took my advice. Edited August 14, 2015 by FLACRUISER99

[Mommabear2Five]

Don't worry! I've cruised several times (closed loop in Florida ports) and only used my birth certificate and my license in my married name. I always bring my marriage certificate but have never been asked for it.

 

We've been meaning to get our passports, but we rather spend that $300 on another cruise :)

[Sandy Sails]

Whoops! Didn't mean to cause drama! I'm obviously new here! LOL

 

I went ahead and sent in for the renewal, non expedited. RCCL said I would not need to carry birth cert and marriage cert off the ship but might be asked for both upon check in. I can handle that. I much prefer my passport, but this was such a last minute decision. If my passport gets here, then great. If not, we will still board the ship.

 

And yes, I could just do the renewal since it was issued in the last 15 yrs. old passport and new photos required, but not birth cert.

 

But aren't you changing your last name also? That's why you would need your marriage certificate. I did this a couple of years ago and needed old passport and legal name change document (marriage certificate or in my case, court order name change certificate). Since it was one year before my passport expired, I went ahead and renewed it also. Easy.

[becca5]

But aren't you changing your last name also? That's why you would need your marriage certificate. I did this a couple of years ago and needed old passport and legal name change document (marriage certificate or in my case, court order name change certificate). Since it was one year before my passport expired, I went ahead and renewed it also. Easy.

 

No, my expired passport has my married name, so to renew it I just needed new pictures.

[petel]

New Flash: Yes, we paid the extra $$$$ and here are the facts (for us, YMMV) mailed renewal Aug 4th (priority mail, USPS) check cleared account August 12th, Passports arrived UPS Aug 14th! Maybe it's because we live in OK, maybe because we requested passport and card, or maybe we got someone who just wanted to clear their inbox.....whatever, this is the way ours went. Good luck to everyone with the problem/blessing of actually needing a passport and being able to travel. :) We are so happy :D

[Ladysilver]

We used our birth certificates for years then a couple of years ago decided to get passports. One of the best decisions we ever made! :D

[mollyeilis]

I don't want to have to carry my marriage certificate as well.

 

I know you did the renewal. But what was the issue with carrying a marriage certificate?

 

 

 

 

If we aren't planning on getting off the boat except for cocoa cay, is it any better? I won't be wondering around Nassau.

 

If they did require a passport, you wouldn't get on the ship. They can't absolutely know you won't get an urge to run to Greycliff Chocolates but not have the right papers.

 

 

 

The only time a marriage certificate is required is when for example a newlywed books a cruise in their new name and has no official photo ID in that name. You may have seen a video about the Oasis when this happened.

Some say they've been asked for a marriage certificate even though the name on their photo ID and cruise match and BC doesn't. No idea why they ask as it certainly is not required. If it was, it would be asked for every time without question, not just randomly

Never once heard of anyone being denied boarding because they did not produce marriage certificate when they had driver's license photo ID and BC in maiden name

 

But they absolutely SHOULD. Why? Because who is to say that person IS that person, without that bridging document? If I go from Mary Smith to Mary Colucci, shouldn't I have to PROVE that I'm the same person because I married Jimmy Colucci? (not my name or husband's name) Absolutely positively YES.

 

DH still thinks of changing his name to mine, and when he does he'll have to go through the court, and until he gets the new name on his passport he would have to bridge BC and DL to prove that he is still him and not some other person.

 

 

Have watched others bring a photo copy and not get on!!

 

Unlikely.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1139/~/documents-needed-to-take-a-cruise

 

"U.S. Citizens on closed-loop cruises will be able to enter or depart the country on the cruise with proof of citizenship, such as an original or copy of his or her birth certificate (issued by the Vital Records Department in the state where he or she was born) and, if 16 or older, a government issued photo ID."

 

 

http://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/western-hemisphere-travel-initiative

 

"U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises (cruises that begin and end at the same U.S. port) are able to enter the United States with a birth certificate and government-issued photo ID."

 

If they mean certified, they need to state certified.

 

 

 

 

 

people miss-understand what "rushing" the passport is. All that means, is they will ship it faster. It only gets rushed, once they touch it. Saves maybe a day or two.

 

The full "rush" is that you send it overnight to a totally different address. They get to it, at this different location from the normal passport office in your area, and then they send it back overnight.

 

DH put his passport through the washer and destroyed it. He has to have one for work travel. He did a full, true, rush. Got it back in like 4 days. if you're sending it out priority, you're not truly rushing it. Gotta do it overnight.

 

 

If you miss the ship, or need to fly home for an emergency, you'll need a passport to return to the US.

 

And they could get one, for expedited fees, and while sitting around in offices when they want to be getting home, at that time, if they had to get it then.

 

 

IT IS VERY VERY difficult to re-enter the country by air without a passport..

 

That's why they make sure you get one before you leave whatever country you're in.

 

 

but according to the us gov website. You can NOT use a short form for a visa... not sure why that matters.

 

A visa is a whole different situation.

 

Short form certified should be fine for closed-loop. If short form certified for that state means that it has space for BOTH parents information, it should be fine for getting a passport.

 

I was just looking up the CA and TX info, and honestly if a parent ordered that form of it for you instead of the longer form, that's on them. Since '69 they've had BCs with the embossed seal (on mine), with all the info. Mine aren't full pages like DH and DS's totally fake-looking WA ones, but it's still totally legal. (I didn't have the abstract, but mine isn't a full page...not a half page, either)

 

 

 

Doing a quick Google search I see a bunch of websites saying that abstracts from TX and CA are no longer accepted.

 

http://www.cityoforange.org/depts/cityclerk/passport.asp

 

SPECIAL NOTICE - CALIFORNIA BIRTH ABSTRACTS ARE NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE - PASSPORT APPLICANTS BORN IN CALIFORIA MUST SUBMIT LONG FORM PHOTOREPRODUCTION CERTIFIED COPIES OF BIRTH RECORDS

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

That is true, but for one caveat: If "something happens" and you can't return via that closed-loop cruise ship, and you don't have a passport, you are going to have some issues.

 

You won't have *issues*. You'll just get to have a passport made for you quickly, in a foreign country, while you really just want to get home.

 

 

Passports are effectively good for nine and a half years, since they don't want you traveling w/ a passport that expires w/in 6 months.

 

Totally depends on the country. From when I first started looking into it, when DH started to travel for work in '09, and now, MANY countries have dropped the 6 months requirement.

 

 

Since I believe you are talking about me... let me clear the air.

1. I never said it was impossible to fly without a passport from a foreign country I said and I quote "it was very very difficult" NOT IMPOSSIBLE

 

2. My comment about MM's post was "I DONT BELIEVE THIS IS COMPLETELY ACCURATE" and guess what.. It wasnt.

 

MM said this "It doesn't have anything to do with going into the ports/getting off the ship in ports.

 

A passport is needed when you board and when you re-enter the country, in this case, at the end of your cruise."

 

People say it on every thread. IT wasn't about you.

 

What you said about passports had absolutely nothing to do, for or against, what MM said. That's the weirdness of you saying she wasn't totally correct. It's like she said "pomegranates are reddish purple" and you said "no that's not totally true, apples can be red, yellow, or green".

 

 

I just googled it and found the short form... it was titled "certified abstract of birth" thats what they refer to as the short form, and thats what she had received for her son.

 

She received it because that's what she ordered. Was probably cheaper. It's like a CC person's husband ordering the passport card recently because it was cheaper than the book, when he was supposed to get the book.

[bluemeansgo]

 

Totally depends on the country. From when I first started looking into it, when DH started to travel for work in '09, and now, MANY countries have dropped the 6 months requirement.

 

 

Many countries only issue 90 day entries now. The USA included.

Edited August 15, 2015 by bluemeansgo

[brillohead]

Side note --

 

When traveling off the ship (other than private islands where there is no actual port area), make sure you bring a photo ID (driver license, passport book, passport card, etc.) in addition to your SeaPass card.

 

In many ports, you need to show the SeaPass AND a photo ID in order to be allowed entry back into the secured port area to get back onto the ship.

[sparks1093]

 

But they absolutely SHOULD. Why? Because who is to say that person IS that person, without that bridging document? If I go from Mary Smith to Mary Colucci, shouldn't I have to PROVE that I'm the same person because I married Jimmy Colucci? (not my name or husband's name) Absolutely positively YES.

 

Unlikely.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1139/~/documents-needed-to-take-a-cruise

 

"U.S. Citizens on closed-loop cruises will be able to enter or depart the country on the cruise with proof of citizenship, such as an original or copy of his or her birth certificate (issued by the Vital Records Department in the state where he or she was born) and, if 16 or older, a government issued photo ID."

 

 

http://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/western-hemisphere-travel-initiative

 

"U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises (cruises that begin and end at the same U.S. port) are able to enter the United States with a birth certificate and government-issued photo ID."

 

If they mean certified, they need to state certified.

 

 

Short form certified should be fine for closed-loop. If short form certified for that state means that it has space for BOTH parents information, it should be fine for getting a passport.

 

I was just looking up the CA and TX info, and honestly if a parent ordered that form of it for you instead of the longer form, that's on them. Since '69 they've had BCs with the embossed seal (on mine), with all the info. Mine aren't full pages like DH and DS's totally fake-looking WA ones, but it's still totally legal. (I didn't have the abstract, but mine isn't a full page...not a half page, either)

 

 

You won't have *issues*. You'll just get to have a passport made for you quickly, in a foreign country, while you really just want to get home.

 

 

 

 

There is no mention of bridging documents in the DHS regulations. The passenger presents the birth certificate and photo ID and if the names are different that is recorded in the records related to the photo ID when the name change documents needed to be submitted. When one applies for a first time passport there is no requirement to submit a marriage license. Asking for a marriage license would do nothing to protect the national security (which is the reason for the requirements in the first place).

 

As your citation points out a passenger may present an original or copy of a birth certificate for a closed loop cruise and yes, it means a regular photocopy. I presented just that when I boarded my cruise with CCL and no one looked twice at it. Again, all of this information is verified during the cruise using multiple government databases so there is no risk to the national security. (I have also read numerous threads where travelers had lost or misplaced passports or other travel documents and had their birth certificate faxed to the port in order to board.) While the original birth certificate (which is actually the copy you receive from the state, the original remains on file) is the best document to bring a copy will work. (There is nothing in the regulations requiring certified birth certificates.)

 

The reason there is confusion between short form and long form is because a couple of years ago the State Department changed their requirements and started requiring parents' names on the BC. DHS has not changed their regulations in this regard and for closed loop cruise any birth certificate issued by a government entity is valid proof of citizenship.

 

Finally, the regulations give the State Department the authority to waive the passport requirement in an emergency or for humanitarian reasons, so if someone does need to get home in an emergency it is not actually necessary that a passport be issued to them, the Consulate can prepare a letter allowing them to travel. How much delay there is in getting home will depend heavily on the circumstances and what documentation you have to give to the Consulate (one reason why an original birth certificate is better than a copy).