Cruising Alaska with Holland America- the Biggest Trap Ever

[BetterToBeSmarter]

A very convoluted story. The mind boggles!

 

I think the highlight is that she says she can still travel in the US and Canada, she thinks, up to 90 days AFTER her visa has expired. Definitely problems with translation.

 

Not I think, but it is the right interpretation. I've consulted not only with this Visa Center (so far I don't know if it really legally exists or not), but also two different customs officers in different borders when I reentered US, and international offices in my US uiversities. It is legal to travel and come back to US, even after the expiration of US visa, within 90 days of the expiration of the visa, but only within US, Canada and Mexico. I would not book the cruise otherwise.

[serendipity1499]

Better to be Smarter ..

 

In the material you quoted in your post you did not follow the HAL nstructions which stated: Quote Because governmental travel requirements change periodically, you should check with a visa service or the consulate of each country you will visit no later than three (3) weeks prior to sailing to verify travel documentation. Unquote

 

It specifically states you should contact the consulate of each country you visit.. It was your responsibility to contact the Canadian Consulate not HAL or any one in any so called visa branch of the U.S.Government.. I agree that you may have been able to travel on your expired U.S. visa if you have a valid I94 & MAYBE you would have been re-admitted into the U.S. but that did not preclude your obtaining a Canadian Visa..

 

I'm sorry that your were refused boarding , but HAL had no choice in the matter..T hey would have been subject to a heavy fine, if they permitted you to board without a Canadian Visa..

Edited August 19, 2015 by serendipity1499

[3rdGenCunarder]

Not I think, but it is the right interpretation. I've consulted not only with this Visa Center (so far I don't know if it really legally exists or not), but also two different customs officers in different borders when I reentered US, and international offices in my US uiversities. It is legal to travel and come back to US, even after the expiration of US visa, within 90 days of the expiration of the visa, but only within US, Canada and Mexico. I would not book the cruise otherwise.

 

Yes, the expired visa would get you back into the US. But a US visa only gets you into the US. Since you knew the US required you to get a US visa, didn't it occur to you that Canada might require you to get a Canadian visa? (I believe your cruise included a port in Canada, yes?)

[Fouremco]

Not I think, but it is the right interpretation. I've consulted not only with this Visa Center (so far I don't know if it really legally exists or not), but also two different customs officers in different borders when I reentered US, and international offices in my US uiversities. It is legal to travel and come back to US, even after the expiration of US visa, within 90 days of the expiration of the visa, but only within US, Canada and Mexico. I would not book the cruise otherwise.

Dealing with each of these in order:

 

1. As VisaCentral clearly provides the information that you needed a visa, you cast doubt on its legality? Not very professional or convincing.

 

2. US "customs officers" are not the authorities on visa requirements for Chinese tourists visiting Canada.

 

3. Ditto university officials.

 

4. You continue to confuse the issue of reentry to the US with the visa requirements of Canada.

 

You can continue to plead your case in CC, but it always comes back to the same thing: you didn't meet the requirements for entering Canada and HAL has no choice but to not allow you passage.

[Boytjie]

I checked all the links the replies provided. THERE IS NO SPECIFIC information! ALL they ask you to do is to consult other authorities (to make sure you take the full responsibility).

 

The specific information is there:

 

Please review your itinerary and verify your specific travel requirements. Because governmental travel requirements change periodically, you should check with a visa service or the consulate of each country you will visit no later than three (3) weeks prior to sailing to verify travel documentation.

You were instructed to check requirements with the consulates of countries you will be visiting. You did not do that. You are trying to blame HAL for something that you screwed up.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Boytjie

[BetterToBeSmarter]

I Hate to tell you this folks but you are wrong..

 

Many non- U.S. Citizens who have I94's CAN & DO travel on expired Visa's in the United States & it is perfectly legal..The Dept. of Homeland Security controls this:

 

Suggest you check out this WEB site info..

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/automatic-revalidation.html

 

 

Quote Automatic Revalidation

 

Re-entering the United States with a Valid I-94 Form and Expired Visa is Limited

 

What Is Automatic Revalidation?

 

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has the authority and the responsibility over the admission of travelers to the United States. Under the automatic revalidation provision of immigration law, certain temporary visitors holding expired nonimmigrant visas who seek to return to the U.S. may be admitted at a U.S. port-of-entry by CBP, if they meet certain requirements, including, but not limited to the following:.

Nonimmigrants who departed the United States for brief travel to Canada, Mexico, or an adjacent island (for F and J nonimmigrants) for thirty days or less;

Nonimmigrants with a valid (unexpired) admission stamp or paper Form I-94, Arrival/Departure Record, endorsed by DHS.[/B] Unquote

 

There is a lot more info on Automatic re-validation on that WEB site..

 

Of course this has nothing to do with a Visa for Canada, but I can see where someone might misinterpret the Automatic Re-Validation for the U.S. by assuming they do not need a visa for Canada..

 

Thank you for understanding me correctly and knowing the policy well. I called this Visa Center (so far I don't know if it really legally exists or not), they said I could travel with my expired visa within Canada, US, Mexico, but they didn't tell me that I need a Canadian visa knowing that I was going to Alaska with HAL, which I said in my story that was very "misleading".

My point is not I don't have fault at all, I should have not trusted all those persons I spoke to and got direct contact with Canadian consulor. My point is, the cruise line should be perform professional and provide qualified service by guiding you through the right procedures. But what they did now is shrinking the services or providing no services by providing you a website where you do all the money transfer by stating that you take your own risk. My friend was going to Russia with Princess told me he was led through every step on what documents he should be prepared for. Let's call it a service.

As I said, there is a sharp difference between "what they don't want to do" and "what they cannot do". Setting up an automatic system by destination and nationality should lead to a webpage popping out the documents you need, which the visitors can easily follow, esp. with a huge Chinese market there. If the denial guest relation person at the pier is encounted with this situation so often, there is no excuse why they don't have a written warning popped up requiring you to get a Canadian visa when you input those personal information. If they make everything easy for them (-same statement page everywhere you go and no matter where you're from) and hard for the guests, this is not called as service. Not to mention that they led me around to call the different agencies and still didn't get me the correct information!! So Sad!!

[BetterToBeSmarter]

Dealing with each of these in order:

 

"1. As VisaCentral clearly provides the information that you needed a visa, you cast doubt on its legality? Not very professional or convincing."

 

- No they didn't. They told me with my documents, I can travel within three countries legally.

 

"2. US "customs officers" are not the authorities on visa requirements for Chinese tourists visiting Canada."

 

- No they are not, but they should have the expertise to answer this question because it's in their hand that they decide if you can entry US or not.

 

"3. Ditto university officials.

- Same thing, see 2. Their profession is to help international students and prof. to travel legally within the country."

 

And if you still have questions for that, there is someone under this review who posted the official link and policy regarding this question.

 

"4. You continue to confuse the issue of reentry to the US with the visa requirements of Canada."

- Yes, I used to mixed up, that's why I said the information the visa center gave me is very "misleading". It was them to tell me I Can travel to Canada, Mexico and within US within 90 days after my US visa expires.

I didn't say I have no fault at all: I should have not trusted all those persons I spoke to and got direct contact with Canadian consular. My point is, the cruise line should be perform professional and provide qualified service by guiding you through the right procedures. But what they did now is shrinking the services or providing no services by providing you a website where you do all the money transfer by stating that you take your own risk. My friend was going to Russia with Princess told me he was led through every step on what documents he should be prepared for. Let's call it a service.

As I said, there is a sharp difference between "what they don't want to do" and "what they cannot do". Setting up an automatic system by destination and nationality should lead to a webpage popping out the documents you need, which the visitors can easily follow, esp. with a huge Chinese market there. If the denial guest relation person at the pier is encounted with this situation so often, there is no excuse why they don't have a written warning popped up requiring you to get a Canadian visa when you input those personal information. If they make everything easy for them (-same statement page everywhere you go and no matter where you're from) and hard for the guests, this is not called as service. Not to mention that they led me around to call the different agencies and still didn't get me the correct information!! So Sad!!

 

 

"You can continue to plead your case in CC, but it always comes back to the same thing: you didn't meet the requirements for entering Canada and HAL has no choice but to not allow you passage.

"

 

No, I can't get on the cruise for sure. What I plead here is not they let me on that cruise, but they could get non-US citizens better informed before they book online or even check in with the cruise.

I am very astonished that in this country, you take it for granted that you can perform unprofessional and still legally get all the money. Thinking about the whole process, I contacted with HAL and the other agent so many times and still got to where I was. And they didn't even reply your email. This is really distorted. And if you're speaking for them at that part, I would certainly have right to suspect that you're bought by HAL.

Process is more importatn than the result. I accept the result but I question the process.

[BetterToBeSmarter]

All I can say is that I would never travel with expired documents nor expect them to be honoured. Heck, it's recommended that your passport have at least 6 months until expiry.

 

Sorry this happened but Alaska is not a trap. You do have to clear Canadian Customs and just as when I must clear U.S. Customs, you do need to meet their criteria.

 

I traveled with valid documents: passport, American visa and I94. I94 defines my legitimacy to travel within 90 days after the visa expires. The only thing I need to get was a Canadian visa, which I called different persons I was led to by HAL but was mis-informed.

[BetterToBeSmarter]

I find it odd that someone at HAL would modify your visa date in the Voyage Personalizer. Then your HAL documents wouldn't match your actual documents, which is almost a guarantee of trouble.

 

Anyone who's a citizen of country A, living in country B (with expired documents), and wanting to travel to country C is in a complicated situation. The fact that you kept asking shows that you know this. But you asked the wrong people.

 

If you need more information, the website will give you contact information.

Thanks for the reply.

I did travel with valid documents: passport (have more than ten years validity), American visa and I94. My US visa would be expired but my I94 defines my legitimacy to travel within 90 days after the visa expires in those three countries. The only thing I need to get was a Canadian visa, which I should have got. I called different persons/departments led by HAL personnel to figure out the visa issue but was misinformed.

As you said, the lady manually modified my visa date would lead me to trouble; the website gives "contact information", which I followed to call showed me to misled information. So should HAL take responsibility for that?

I don't understand the people who state HAl has no fault here. It is so obvious they have big fault by providing no-professional service and kicking me around all those different departments. So from what they said, the only lesson I should learn here is never trust anyone by the telephone from the cruise line?

[BetterToBeSmarter]

Why didn't you check with the proper Canadian government agency to see what documentation you required to travel to Canada? You also could have checked the Canadian government's website. Why trust that the person who answers the phone at HAL knows all about foreign government regulations?

 

I don't think you will generate much sympathy here as you knew you were travelling with expired Visas. It was a hard lesson for sure.

 

Expired visa is not the problem, I have I94 with the expired visa to validate my travel within US, Canada and Mexico. So I'm not trying to produce sympathy here by whining not having proper documents to get to Alaska. What I tried to complain is, how am I not informed by HAL that I need a Canadian visa to Alaska?

So you're saying the one who sold me the tickets do not need to know the regulations? Think about this, if you're booking a complete tour to a foreign country with a travel agency, you pay them money, do you expect you yourself investigate everything or you expect them to tell you what you should prepare for? How come that professional service not expected in this country? If they're professionals responsible for moving you in and out of the country, there should be expertise occurred in the process.The value of what is professional service is certainly distorted, if nobody agrees that!

[Karen13]

After following this thread I have checked the visa requirements for our trip to Canada in June next year on an Alaska cruise. Our airline (Air Transat) website says visas are not required for UK citizens.

 

However when I checked with the Canadian Governenment and UK government websites, from March 2016 UK citizens and many others WILL need an eTA. You can apply online and it costs $7 CAD. It lasts for five years. Also, if it is an Alaska cruise, I assume you will also need a USA ESTA?

 

It is always best to check the requirements with official websites beforehand, as I agree the requirements are becoming more complicated with increasing concerns about global security.

[take us away]

Expired visa is not the problem, I have I94 with the expired visa to validate my travel within US, Canada and Mexico. So I'm not trying to produce sympathy here by whining not having proper documents to get to Alaska. What I tried to complain is, how am I not informed by HAL that I need a Canadian visa to Alaska?

So you're saying the one who sold me the tickets do not need to know the regulations? Think about this, if you're booking a complete tour to a foreign country with a travel agency, you pay them money, do you expect you yourself investigate everything or you expect them to tell you what you should prepare for? How come that professional service not expected in this country? If they're professionals responsible for moving you in and out of the country, there should be expertise occurred in the process.The value of what is professional service is certainly distorted, if nobody agrees that!

 

Oh for heaven's sake - take some responsibility for your inability to check what is required for a Chinese citizen to visit Canada. Every document from HAL says that it is your personal responsibility to check requirements for each country on the itinerary!

[sapper1]

Expired visa is not the problem, I have I94 with the expired visa to validate my travel within US, Canada and Mexico. So I'm not trying to produce sympathy here by whining not having proper documents to get to Alaska. What I tried to complain is, how am I not informed by HAL that I need a Canadian visa to Alaska?

So you're saying the one who sold me the tickets do not need to know the regulations? Think about this, if you're booking a complete tour to a foreign country with a travel agency, you pay them money, do you expect you yourself investigate everything or you expect them to tell you what you should prepare for? How come that professional service not expected in this country? If they're professionals responsible for moving you in and out of the country, there should be expertise occurred in the process.The value of what is professional service is certainly distorted, if nobody agrees that!

 

My husband's passport is due to expire in late May, 2016. We have a 33 day cruise booked to Hawaii and French Polynesia, followed up with a seven day cruise to Alaska which will end up on May 14. I don't need HAL or anyone else to tell me that he will need a new passport prior to departure. I depend on my common sense for that little detail.

 

I also took three minutes of my time to check the Government of Canada's website to see if Canadian citizens require a visa to visit French Polynesia. It turns out that we will not need a visa but I exercised common sense in checking out the possibility.

 

Our travel agent is trained to look after bookings for us. We do not expect her to be an expert on international affairs and the complexity of each person's situation vis à vis a requirement for a visa.

Edited August 19, 2015 by sapper1

[kamac56]

I wonder why you chose now to come to CC? If you just came to complain really not worth your time, many here would have told you most if not all the Information you may have needed BEFORE the situation came to your point. You paid for a cruise not visa service. It is not up to HAL to give you ALL the info you think your entitled too. It IS always up to the customer to cover their butt! It sounds as if even to the point of entering the port you weren't sure you had the right info, mistake is yours, you need to be absolutely certain when you walk into the port there is no way they are going to turn you away.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Thank you for understanding me correctly and knowing the policy well. I called this Visa Center (so far I don't know if it really legally exists or not), they said I could travel with my expired visa within Canada, US, Mexico, but they didn't tell me that I need a Canadian visa knowing that I was going to Alaska with HAL, which I said in my story that was very "misleading".

My point is not I don't have fault at all, I should have not trusted all those persons I spoke to and got direct contact with Canadian consulor. My point is, the cruise line should be perform professional and provide qualified service by guiding you through the right procedures. But what they did now is shrinking the services or providing no services by providing you a website where you do all the money transfer by stating that you take your own risk. My friend was going to Russia with Princess told me he was led through every step on what documents he should be prepared for. Let's call it a service.

As I said, there is a sharp difference between "what they don't want to do" and "what they cannot do". Setting up an automatic system by destination and nationality should lead to a webpage popping out the documents you need, which the visitors can easily follow, esp. with a huge Chinese market there. If the denial guest relation person at the pier is encounted with this situation so often, there is no excuse why they don't have a written warning popped up requiring you to get a Canadian visa when you input those personal information. If they make everything easy for them (-same statement page everywhere you go and no matter where you're from) and hard for the guests, this is not called as service. Not to mention that they led me around to call the different agencies and still didn't get me the correct information!! So Sad!!

 

The bolding is mine. Take another look at that sentence. You think you are not at fault because you chose not to contact the Canadian consulate? It is not HAL's fault that you didn't contact the consulates involved. More than one of the previous posts quotes information you should have seen online about consulting consulates.

 

Yes, it would be convenient and easy of HAL had an information page for every country they visit. But HAL takes people to many more countries than US and Alaska. Documentation requirements are complicated and varied, which you should know from your previous travels. Keeping web pages like that up-to-date is difficult, as countries change their rules without notifying cruise lines.

 

I know you're angry with HAL, but it isn't just HAL. All cruise lines tell you the same thing--you are responsible for documentation, and the way to find out what documentation you need is to contact the consulate of each country you will visit.

[3rdGenCunarder]

My husband's passport is due to expire in late May, 2016. We have a 33 day cruise booked to Hawaii and French Polynesia, followed up with a seven day cruise to Alaska which will end up on May 14. I don't need HAL or anyone else to tell me that he will need a new passport prior to departure. I depend on my common sense for that little detail.

 

I also took three minutes of my time to check the Government of Canada's website to see if Canadian citizens require a visa to visit French Polynesia. It turns out that we will not need a visa but I exercised common sense in checking out the possibility.

 

Our travel agent is trained to look after bookings for us. We do not expect her to be an expert on international affairs and the complexity of each person's situation vis à vis a requirement for a visa.

 

(bold is mine)

 

It took a whole three minutes to "buy" peace of mind. That's a good deal in my book.

[iancal]

International travel requires a certain amount of common sense and basic documentation.

 

If someone is lacking in common sense or is too lazy to understand and comply with the most basic of documentation requirements then that person would be well advised to remain at home.

 

Blaming others for your own failures or shortcomings is not an admirable personality trait....even though it seems to be becoming more popular.

[IRL_Joanie]

.....<SNIP>.....What I tried to complain is, how am I not informed by HAL that I need a Canadian visa to Alaska?

So you're saying the one who sold me the tickets do not need to know the regulations? .....<SNIP>...../quote]

 

Above snipped by me.

 

OK OP, Let us try this scenario:

 

1. You go to a grocery store (HAL) and seeing a product on one of the shelves (Cruise to Alaska) and decide (after consulting with a store employee (HAL Phone Representative)) to use that product to create a meal that will be memorable.

 

2. The product you purchased (HAL Cruise to Alaska) has directions (FAQ's/Visa requirements) on how to cook the product, but not what to cook with it, i.e., special sauce, garnish....

 

3. You get the product home and realize that you have no idea what else to cook or use to make the product memorable.........

 

4. So now you are furious that the Store Employee and the product itself did not give you exacting details.........

 

5. So instead of blaming yourself for not taking the time to find a recipe that would tell you exactly what you will need to make the product a memorable dish (Passports, Visas, 194), you complain that the product was ruined because you did not delve into the information YOU are responsible to find.

 

What it comes down to is that you were directed to the OFFICIAL National Visa Center (YES IT IS A LEGIT US of A Government Entity) http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/nvc.html (NOTE at the very top of the page, in LARGE Letters: U.S. VISAS (It does not state "and Canada") AND you did not take into account that the Visa Center is a US of A government resource for the US of A!!! This is not a resource for any other country!!!

 

When do you take responsibility for your own actions/inaction's?

 

When do you have that "Ah Ha!" moment? That moment when you give it up and say, "Crud, I did not think things out well enough and should have researched better and contacted the Consulate(s) of each country myself."

 

It is obvious that you knew the words to ask, as shown by your finding Cruise Critic and the Chinese Forum you mentioned in your Opening Post, so I suggest that you were smart enough to have researched long before the cruise instead of after.

 

I am sorry that this has happened to you and your family, especially your 5 year old daughter. But, you have to take the reins and realize that you are the person responsible for your inaction's in this fiasco.

 

Stop blaming others and use this as an example in the future of what can happen when you screw up.

 

Joanie

 

Edited August 19, 2015 by IRL_Joanie

[richwmn]

Each person has a unique set of circumstances which can change their ability to visit particular countries.

 

Yes, you are an American Citizen - where where you born? Europe - then you need additional documentation.

 

You have recently visited country X, you can't now visit country Y.

 

You are a 60 year old US Citizen and had a DUI in college, you can't visit Canada without some additional paperwork.

 

You hold or have held a security clearance with the US (or allied) government - you can not visit certain countries.

 

US citizens need special permission to visit Cuba, but this is changing.

 

Many other circumstances can change your ability to visit certain other countries.

 

Many people hold passports from more than one country. By choosing which passport they choose to travel under, their options can change.

 

All this can change on a daily basis.

 

 

Only the individual has all the information needed to determine if they can visit another country.

Edited August 19, 2015 by richwmn

[George C]

My passport expires in April 2016 and I will renew within the month

[susanch12345]

The visa issues are complicated.

 

But regardless, you, as the passenger, are responsible for your own passports/visas/documentations. PERIOD.

 

US custom officers, or whoever you consulted, have no say in a chinese citizen entering Canada.

[OlsSalt]

OP: As long as you continue to blame HAL who clearly stated travel documents were your ultimate and non-negotiable obligation, you are still missing the point. One can share your desire for "professional" process which in fact is subjective and discretionary, but you cannot delegate the ultimate responsibility for the validity of your travel documents which remained solely upon you. Readers here do appreciate you have a very fine command of the English language, so it is unlikely anything got lost in translation except an inability to accept final responsibility for these critical travel documents. Customers are won and lost on many service delivery executions. If your friend had a far better experience with Princess (part same parent company with HAL) on this exact same issue, then you have your answer for your future cruise line choice.

Edited August 19, 2015 by OlsSalt

[JVilleGal]

They really Do "walk among us" [emoji33]

[OVgirl]

It seems obvious to me that all the US paperwork, I94 and Us visa just allow a person to return to the US. They have nothing to do with entering the other countries. Canada will require their own documentation.

 

Good lesson for other travellers. Sorry, you weren't able to get this information before your cruise.

[IRL_Joanie]

It seems obvious to me that all the US paperwork, I94 and Us visa just allow a person to return to the US. They have nothing to do with entering the other countries. Canada will require their own documentation.

 

Good lesson for other travellers. Sorry, you weren't able to get this information before your cruise.

 

I do not think it was the "get" as much as it was "Comprehension."

 

Merriam Webster Dictionary : "to understand (something, such as a difficult or complex subject)."

 

Joanie

Edited August 19, 2015 by IRL_Joanie