Leaving mid way threw cruise

[RuthC]

It's not legal as you would be violating the PVSA Act which states that a cruise line can not allow you to board in one U.S. City & disembark in another U.S. city without going to a Distant Foreign Port..

As mentioned in several posts, it would not be a violation of the PVSA to disembark in Ketchikan if the passenger boarded in Vancouver.

That is one possible scenario.

 

It could, however, be illegal on another basis, if Customs/Immigration were not cleared properly.

[RuthC]

There are no distant foreign ports anywhere close to the line of travel for the Alaska cruises.

Which, of course, doesn't mean there never were, nor could be again.

[Budget Queen]

Assuming, of course, that you are a US citizen or a foreign national with the requisite documentation to allow entry.

 

NOPE wrong again-

 

NOBODY here gets it-

 

I SAID anyone BOARDING in Vancouver can get off a ship at ANY port in Alaska- FACT. There is NOBODY to "allow entry" NO customs to go through- you just WALK off the ship.

 

you have ALREADY gone through ALL the customs and immigration- needed to enter the US anywhere- IN Vancouver.

[JVilleGal]

I don't believe HAL would see things that way.....with proper permission from the cruise line you "may" be able to arrange an early disembark. (No caps required)

Edited August 21, 2015 by JVilleGal

[Budget Queen]

Wrong information. It very much depends on the citizenship of the passenger, the type of visa they're holding and whether or not they pre-cleared this with both HAL and US Immigration.

 

No you are wrong. READ my post- ANYONE boarding IN Vancouver- can get off in ANY Alaska port- EVERYONE is ALREADY cleared with US immigration in Vancouver.

 

Do you really think it makes a difference- if it is Ketchikan or Seward where someone exits?

[Budget Queen]

No, if you'll reread Ruth's post she IS correct. She stated that a distant foreign port would be required if sailing on a one-way from Seattle to/from Seward. Since there are none that qualify in the region, ships doing the one-way cruises have to have Vancouver (instead of Seattle) as one of the terminus. Surely you aren't disputing that. :rolleyes:

 

A cruise from Seattle to Japan and on to Seward would certainly be allowed - should a cruise line ever offer it.

 

There are no Seward/ Seattle cruises- so why are you even using this as your "example"?

[Fouremco]

NOPE wrong again-

 

NOBODY here gets it-

 

I SAID anyone BOARDING in Vancouver can get off a ship at ANY port in Alaska- FACT. There is NOBODY to "allow entry" NO customs to go through- you just WALK off the ship.

 

you have ALREADY gone through ALL the customs and immigration- needed to enter the US anywhere- IN Vancouver.

Exactly. And to board in Vancouver, you must meet the requirements I mentioned. My statement's actually in agreement with yours, so I'm not sure why you are telling me I'm wrong. :confused:

[Mary Ellen]

There are no Seward/ Seattle cruises- so why are you even using this as your "example"?

 

Because as Ruth was CORRECTLY pointing out, that a DISTANT foreign port is required for a Seward/Seattle cruise to be legal. Thus, Seward cruises either begin or end in Vancouver. You know this. I know this. However, there are newbies who want to know why there aren't one-way cruises between Alaska and Seattle. Ruth pointed out 'why'. You stated:

Wrong information- there is NEVER a same ship- cruise between "Seward/Seattle or reverse", that is allowed.

That is "wrong information". While there are currently no itineraries that sail between Seattle and Seward, it can be done - should a cruise line again offer an itinerary again similar to what Ruth remembers from the 90s. Can that be done in one week? No. But a number of us take cruises longer than one week. ;)

[ellieanne]

I do not know the consequences from the cruise line for doing so, but I do know that some people have used the Circle Hawaii cruises from San Diego as a means to move to Hawaii cheaply -- and bring a good amount of their personal belongings without excess airline fees.

 

On my cruise, we left at least 6 passengers in Hawaii and I know at least 2 of those were intending to move to Hawaii and just using the ship as transport.

Edited August 22, 2015 by ellieanne

[Shmoo here]

I do not know the consequences from the cruise line for doing so, but I do know that some people have used the Circle Hawaii cruises from San Diego as a means to move to Hawaii cheaply -- and bring a good amount of their personal belongings without excess airline fees.

 

On my cruise, we left at least 6 passengers in Hawaii and I know at least 2 of those were intending to move to Hawaii and just using the ship as transport.

 

The "consequences" are a $300 per passenger fine (usually passed onto the passenger), and it's possible, if it can be confirmed that the cruise line knew these people were to be getting off against the law, being banned from US ports.

 

What cruise line was this?

Edited August 22, 2015 by Shmoo here

[RuthC]

I do not know the consequences from the cruise line for doing so, but I do know that some people have used the Circle Hawaii cruises from San Diego as a means to move to Hawaii cheaply -- and bring a good amount of their personal belongings without excess airline fees.

 

On my cruise, we left at least 6 passengers in Hawaii and I know at least 2 of those were intending to move to Hawaii and just using the ship as transport.

I take it this was after the end of US-flagged ships sailing from the west coast of the US to Hawaii.

Were they sailing from a US port, or out of Vancouver or Mexico?

If sailing from a US port, did they stop at a distant foreign port before disembarking?

 

If they sailed directly from a US port, and disembarked in Hawaii, there was a violation of the PVSA. That would mean fines to the cruiseline, which should be passed on to the passengers.

Still, might be cheaper to pay the fine than to pay for the move!

[ellieanne]

I take it this was after the end of US-flagged ships sailing from the west coast of the US to Hawaii.

Were they sailing from a US port, or out of Vancouver or Mexico?

If sailing from a US port, did they stop at a distant foreign port before disembarking?

 

If they sailed directly from a US port, and disembarked in Hawaii, there was a violation of the PVSA. That would mean fines to the cruiseline, which should be passed on to the passengers.

Still, might be cheaper to pay the fine than to pay for the move!

 

The "consequences" are a $300 per passenger fine (usually passed onto the passenger), and it's possible, if it can be confirmed that the cruise line knew these people were to be getting off against the law, being banned from US ports.

 

What cruise line was this?

 

It was in 2005, a round-trip (but not for the passengers who did not return) from San Diego. I know it's against the law, but as you say the fine, even if passed on to the passenger would have been less than flights and moving their belongings (mainly clothes/pictures/books/electronics).

 

I'm not condoning the practice, merely reporting that I know of at least two people who have done it. I was reporting what I knew to have happened. I do not know that the cruise line knew of the passengers' plans until they failed to return to the ship. I was talking to the passengers in the hotel lobby prior to boarding in San Diego. But based on the passengers and the conversation, I doubt they made their plans known to the cruise prior to failing to return to the ship in Honolulu.

Edited August 22, 2015 by ellieanne

[JB&JLG74]

..The Jones Act has nothing to do with Psgrs, the Jones Act is for Cargo only..

 

Really? I have often heard reference to the Jones Act in regard to cruise ships and Wikipedia has this to say about the Jones Act . . .

 

Cabotage is the transport of goods or passengers between two points in the same country, alongside coastal waters, by a vessel or an aircraft registered in another country.

 

The cabotage provisions relating to the "Jones Act" restrict the carriage of goods or passengers between United States ports to U.S.-built and flagged vessels. It has been codified as portions of 46 U.S.C. Generally, the Jones Act prohibits any foreign built or foreign flagged vessel from engaging in coastwise trade within the United States. A number of other statutes affect coastwise trade and should be consulted along with the Jones Act. These include the Passenger Services Act, 46 USC section 289 which restricts coastwise transportation of passengers . . .

[serendipity1499]

As mentioned in several posts, it would not be a violation of the PVSA to disembark in Ketchikan if the passenger boarded in Vancouver.

That is one possible scenario.

 

It could, however, be illegal on another basis, if Customs/Immigration were not cleared properly.

 

Ruth, not sure I understand why you quoted my post.. I said you can't board in one U.S. city & disembark in another U.S. City if you have not been to a distant foreign port.. Agree with you that you can disembark in Ketchikan if you boarded in Vancouver but not if you boarded in Seward.. However, she still would have to clear Customs & Immigrations to disembark in Ketchikan.. I was thinking the OP was going to board in Seward & then try to disembark in Ketchikan, but maybe she is going the opposite itinerary..

 

It would be nice if she came back & explained why she was asking about disembarking in Ketchikan..

[dakrewser]

NOT wrong information. According to the PVSA, it is illegal for a non-US flagged ship to transport passengers from one US port to a different US port without a stop in a distant foreign port. Regardless of citizenship of passenger or visa they may be holding. To do so, can result in fines and/or banning from US ports altogether.

 

There are no distant foreign ports anywhere close to the line of travel for the Alaska cruises.

 

My reply had nothing to do with the PVSA (that was the poster I was correcting). Leaving the cruise, even if adhering to the PVSA, isn't possible without the proper documents which vary considerably based on the nationality and passport country-of-issue of the person involved.

[RuthC]

Ruth, not sure I understand why you quoted my post..

Because you quoted a post which did not specify the city of embarkation, which could have been Vancouver, and said that then disembarking in Ketchikan would be a violation of the PVSA. It would not be in that instance, which your post did not cover.

[dakrewser]

No you are wrong. READ my post- ANYONE boarding IN Vancouver- can get off in ANY Alaska port- EVERYONE is ALREADY cleared with US immigration in Vancouver.

 

Do you really think it makes a difference- if it is Ketchikan or Seward where someone exits?

 

Well, yes, it does make a difference depending on what the person told immigration, and what immigration told the person. There are many, many different visa types for aliens entering the US, and without knowing that as well as the person's declarations its impossible to tell if they could debark in Ketchikan rather than Seward.

[RuthC]

Really? I have often heard reference to the Jones Act in regard to cruise ships

The Jones Act covers goods. The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) covers people.

The both have similar provisions.

[JB&JLG74]

The Jones Act covers goods. The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) covers people.

The both have similar provisions.

 

It looks to me like the Jones Act covers both goods and passengers. The PVSA may be more relevant given that it is specifically for passengers, but I believe that the Jones Act does also apply.

[Shmoo here]

It looks to me like the Jones Act covers both goods and passengers. The PVSA may be more relevant given that it is specifically for passengers, but I believe that the Jones Act does also apply.

 

Correct.

[richwmn]

At a Meet and Greet several cruises ago this subject came up, and the officer who answered mentioned the Jones Act. After the meeting I asked him about it and he replied that the common usage was to use Jones Act to cover both it and the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

As far as using wikipedia as reference material - wikipedia can be edited by almost anyone and it contains quite a bit of false, incorrect or outdated information. The editors try to keep it correct, but that is almost an impossible task.

 

One other thing, all the discussion about being able to leave in ship in Alaska on cruises starting in Vancouver - the PVSA does not apply since the cruise starts in a foreign country. PVSA concerns only cruises (and flights) starting in one US city and ending in another US City.

Edited August 22, 2015 by richwmn

[serendipity1499]

Really? I have often heard reference to the Jones Act in regard to cruise ships and Wikipedia has this to say about the Jones Act . . .

 

Cabotage is the transport of goods or passengers between two points in the same country, alongside coastal waters, by a vessel or an aircraft registered in another country.

 

The cabotage provisions relating to the "Jones Act" restrict the carriage of goods or passengers between United States ports to U.S.-built and flagged vessels. It has been codified as portions of 46 U.S.C. Generally, the Jones Act prohibits any foreign built or foreign flagged vessel from engaging in coastwise trade within the United States. A number of other statutes affect coastwise trade and should be consulted along with the Jones Act. These include the Passenger Services Act, 46 USC section 289 which restricts coastwise transportation of passengers . . .

 

Wikapedia often does not give all the info it should..Many of the articles are not complete..I normally don't put my faith in Wikapedia..It is a free enterprise which is written by largely anonymous volunteers who collaborate & write without pay. Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles, except in limited cases where editing is restricted to prevent disruption or vandalism. Users can contribute anonymously, under a pseudonym, or, if they choose to, with their real identity.

 

It's the Passenger Service Act which restricts coastwise transportation of Psgrs & trade.. The original Jones Act was enacted in 1920 to protect Sailors who were injured or died while working on a ship..It often is called "The Merchant Marine Act..

 

A columnist by the name of Alan Walker explains the difference in both acts in a 1999 column of Sealetter Cruise. Mag: http://www.sealetter.com/Oct-99/alancol.html

 

In Oct. 2006, Pres. Bush signed a new Jones Act Law... Sen.Wesley L. Jones has been erroneously named as the one who sponsored the "Passenger Service Act" which governs shipping by foreign lines & restricts passengers/goods from being transported from one U.S. port/city to another US. port/city..A good explanation can be found at:

 

http://www.shipguide.com/the-jones-act.asp

 

The Federal Employees Liability Act governs the Jones Act..The Jones Act protects Merchant seamen who work on ships that transport cargo & goods all over the world.. The Jones Act prohibits any foreign built or foreign flagged vessel from engaging in coastwise trade within the United States. A number of other statutes affect coastwise trade and should be consulted along with the Jones Act. These include the Passenger Services Act, 46 USC section 289 which restricts coastwise transportation of passengers and 46 USC section 12108 restricts the use of foreign vessel to commercially catch or transport fish in U.S. waters.

 

See: http://www.maritimelawcenter.com/html/the_jones_act.html

 

 

 

R

Edited August 22, 2015 by serendipity1499

[corkpopr]

we got off in Puerto rico instead of ft. Lauderdale once and in florida on a transatlantic instead of new Orleans. had to arrange it in advance but no problem.

[Boytjie]

Puerto Rico is a special case and on a transatlantic the PSVA does not come into play since you embarked in Europe and disembarked in a US city.

 

PSVA is only in play when embarking and disembarking in US ports.

 

For a cllosed loop cruise (eg Ft Lauderdale to Caribbean and back), the ship has to stop in a foreign port like the Bahamas.

 

For a cruise that starts in New York and ends in Ft. Lauderdale, the ship would have to stop in a far distant port, meaning a port not in North America or the Caribbean. That cruise would have to stop in South America, Curacao or Aruba before disembarkation in Ft. Lauderdale.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Boytjie

[sofietucker]

So (getting another bag of popcorn), this is not about Ketchikan, so the mystery writer may not be interested, but re disembarkation:

 

1. These situations occurred in Caribbean/Med/Baltic seas:

-Have regularly seen passengers disembark in random international ports with their luggage--a family, once. A couple of times there were medical emergencies--with ambulance at the pier--& we watched as the companions disembarked.

 

-A couple got off in Livorno & didn't tell anyone their plan to rent a car & reboard in Civitavecchia. The gossip I recall from dinner was that they bought themselves a world 'o pain.

 

-Have also seen passengers join the ship--again with luggage--in ports along the itinerary. We've assumed their flights were delayed & so they had to catch up to the ship in the next port.

 

2. Have read of performers & lecturers joining/departing ships mid-cruise, priorly arranged.

 

3. What about folks who get put off the ship in "the next port" after bad behavior, per the printed rules (& per gossip)?