Norwegian nickel and diming claim?

[canadianeh934]

Even though I don't like the changes,

You DO have a choice for each item you've listed:

Only choose the free selections in MDR, not the lobster

Don't use room service except for complementary breakfast

Prepay gratuities to avoid the rise, or request the form and remove just the increase

Don't attend the show that has a charge.

 

The Main dinning room never should have at an additional cost food items on the menu.

 

Room service was free up until a 5 months or so.....nickle and diming at its finest.

 

The two increases of the DSC is an obvious nickle and diming....can not say it's not. To say prepay your gratuities ...that is like given NCL and interest free loan....they make even more money by the way!

 

You also forgot the 20% increase in gratuities on every thing....from 15% to 18%

 

To answer the OP.....yes they are nickle and diming costomers...

[duchesslt]

I doubt you could argue Margaritaville as being "ordinary vessel food" given that a) if it is only available on one ship in the fleet, it really can't be "ordinary", and b) if it was "ordinary" then why would you care either way? Just go get a free hamburger at the MDR, the Buffet, or O'Sheehans..."ordinary" is "ordinary", right?

 

Tell you what, sport...If you really feel like you're making a legitimate case and not just trying to argue on the Internet, then why don't you just take your case to a contract attorney and make yourself rich suing the cruise lines for all of the illegal things you seem to think they are doing? :rolleyes:

 

Well, I live with an attorney and I think your out of left field solution of "suing" without answering the question at hand is a red herring argument known as argumentum ad consequentiam.

 

But I digress. I still think the purpose of Cruise Critic is to provide cruise critique and these Norwegian changes without notice, without considering grandfathering customers through cruises booked through the announcement date, is worthy of critique.

[SeaShark]

Well, I live with an attorney and I think your out of left field solution of "suing" without answering the question at hand is a red herring argument known as argumentum ad consequentiam.

 

But I digress. I still think the purpose of Cruise Critic is to provide cruise critique and these Norwegian changes without notice, without considering grandfathering customers through cruises booked through the announcement date, is worthy of critique.

 

Even better...since you live with an attorney, and you have access to the Guest Ticket Contract, why don't you share with us the specific section in the Contract that prevents NCL from changing the price and/or selection of optional items available for purchase onboard their ships?

[duchesslt]

Even better...since you live with an attorney, and you have access to the Guest Ticket Contract, why don't you share with us the specific section in the Contract that prevents NCL from changing the price and/or selection of optional items available for purchase onboard their ships?

 

It is generally true in consumer protection laws that fine print contracts inconsistent with advertised opportunities are frowned upon. And that is what you are saying Norwegian in essence has done.

 

I'm focused on agreeing with posters who are critiquing this tactic.

 

A company deserves to lose consumer trust when the company does not uphold the attractive terms it used to bargain with.

[SeaShark]

It is generally true in consumer protection laws that fine print contracts inconsistent with advertised opportunities are frowned upon. And that is what you are saying Norwegian in essence has done.

 

I'm focused on agreeing with posters who are critiquing this tactic.

 

A company deserves to lose consumer trust when the company does not uphold the attractive terms it used to bargain with.

 

Maybe your attorney can explain the difference to you between "generally true" and "true". Again, if you have any evidence that NCL has done anything illegal, then why don't you do something about it? You can belly-ache at me all you want...it won't change a thing.

 

I'm not saying NCL has done, or not done, a thing. YOU are the one touting the position that they are doing something wrong...I'm just waiting on you to offer some proof that there is anything in the contract that supports your position.

 

 

And waiting and waiting and waiting.

[duchesslt]

I'm sorry but I don't plan on suing over whether a burger is free or surcharged. But I do plan on critiquing the company and providing a review.

 

As for "generally" this is how my husband answers everything he has not carefully studied as laws vary by state and contracts can be formed in different states from the parties and a host of other factors which he is not going to get into as he has much better things to do than satisfy a poster who thinks advertising one thing and then providing another is ok.

[NLH Arizona]

 

tell you what, sport...if you really feel like you're making a legitimate case and not just trying to argue on the internet, then why don't you just take your case to a contract attorney and make yourself rich suing the cruise lines for all of the illegal things you seem to think they are doing? :rolleyes:

+1.

[NLH Arizona]

Even better...since you live with an attorney, and you have access to the Guest Ticket Contract, why don't you share with us the specific section in the Contract that prevents NCL from changing the price and/or selection of optional items available for purchase onboard their ships?

Yes, please show us where it is either bait and switch, breach of contract or in any other way illegal, because it will either answer the question that they are doing one of these or it will finally show people that they are not. Please, please show us.

[mugtech]

Yes, please show us where it is either bait and switch, breach of contract or in any other way illegal, because it will either answer the question that they are doing one of these or it will finally show people that they are not. Please, please show us.

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

[roquejo]

Whether we like it or not, the recent CEO of NCL has gave a bad impression to NCL as a nickle and diming cruise line, especially when they started charging for room service... but these are based from what I have read.

 

But now I have a personal example of one recent instance of nickle and diming that made me booked Alaska with Celebrity instead of NCL as I have long planned before.

 

I already hit Diamond with RCCL this year and just few points away of achieving platinum status with NCL, so normally I would cruised more NCL to became Platinum to let my status with NCL catch up with RCCL.

 

And for Alaska, I always sail NCL over RCCL and X as NCL has better sailing route than X Solstice or RCCL and NCL goes to Glacier bay while all ship's under RCCL/X has no permits...

 

That until this nickle and diming strategy turned me off: particularly the beverage package, until middle of this year, it is what I used to think that what is given free should be totally free. Image the major turn off I when I found out you now have to pay for the gratuities if you got the UBP for free.

 

Second I used to love the initial "paid" UBP when it includes the special dinner time show on the first day as part of the package.. but now it is gone...

 

Some other instances:

 

the shore excursion credit used to be $75 for 4 ports excluding turnaround ports for ocean view and up, now it is $50 for all stateroom categories.

 

the freestyle UDP used to be for the entire sailing, now reduced to certain number of days....

 

Then here comes Celebrity.. in addition to having the coolest ship, Solstice class sailing Alaska (but less ideal sailing route and goes to Tracy Arm instead of Glacier Bay), their prices being a premium cruise line became at par with NCL for Alaska (which is a mass market line) in insides while even cheaper than NCL for balcony staterooms which is a must for Alaska....

 

The deal breaker is their 123Go pick 2 promo is vastly superior than NCL.

 

1. Their free classic beverage includes gratuities vs NCL where it is not

2. They have $300 OBC to spend anywhere vs only $200 for NCL severely restricted to $50 per port up to 4 port and excludes turnaround ports

3. Celebrity gives unlimited internet vs just 250 mins for NCL

 

So between the 2 cruise lines.... whose perks will you choose?

 

For me, never mind if X doesn't go to Glacier Bay, been already there 2X, as I cruise Alaska often.

Edited November 29, 2015 by roquejo

[SeaShark]

I'm sorry but I don't plan on suing over whether a burger is free or surcharged. But I do plan on critiquing the company and providing a review.

 

As for "generally" this is how my husband answers everything he has not carefully studied as laws vary by state and contracts can be formed in different states from the parties and a host of other factors which he is not going to get into as he has much better things to do than satisfy a poster who thinks advertising one thing and then providing another is ok.

 

No...you wouldn't sue anyone over whether a burger is free of surcharged, you would sue for breach of contract. (Your husband can explain the nuance.)

 

FWIW...your husband is obviously smart enough to parse his words (generally) when discussing something he has not carefully studied. Not a bad example, not bad at all.

 

Also...your husband doesn't need to satisfy me, I'm confident in my understanding of the situation. Your husband needs to explain the law to YOU...or does he have better things to do than satisfy his wife?

 

As an obviously smart attorney, I would think he would have at least read the Contract as that is the legal agreement that you and he would be bound by whenever you might sail. I don't know why, if NCL is doing all the illegal things that you allege, that your husband would sail with them in the first place.

[Lily815]

Some of you guys crack me up.

More options is not nickel and diming. We agree. However to charge for things that were once included in the cruise fare is nickel and diming IMHO. There would be a long list but I don't want to wake the trolls :eek:

 

Dictionary: To accumulate in small amounts

 

Why do some get so angry at this phrase? I see people freak out on this board. The entire vacation industry is full of nickel and diming. But some think NCL should be immune from commenting about it.

 

I think these people are either relatively new to cruising (maybe within the last 10 years or so), or really are that naive to think all of these changes are "normal".

[CasinoCruzGirl]

You mean paying for a hamburger in one location on the ship, while in 2 different locations its still free/complimentary -That's really is called options, not nickle & diming....

 

 

 

 

 

Personally? If one's whole highlight or reason for going on Escape is to just go to Margaretville - You're going to need more better reasons than that because that's not the only restaurant on the ship (specialty or complimentary), nor is it the only activity onboard either....

 

 

What you don't seem to understand is when people booked the escape it was INCLUDED now it is not I'm not booked on the Escape but if I was and it was originally included I would be pissed off. Why can't you understand that's why some are upset. Please try for once to understand others issues even though they differ from yours. You don't need to call people names when you don't agree. It's that simple

[roquejo]

We may differ in opinions and argue whether there is nickle and diming or not, but the mere fact that some people are getting turned off by these practices and booked other cruise lines instead, there is really something wrong with the market approach...

 

Recall how many CC members raised a howl when NCL charged for room service at the same time prevented guests from taking food into their stateroom? The timing alone is suspect.

 

and recall when they raised gratuities twice just few months apart....

 

when some NCL cruises got chartered, they only offered $50 OBC while RCCL went as far as offering $100 OBC plus reimbursement up to $200 for airline rebooking charges.

 

this does not bode well for the NCL brand.. look at RCCL, because they took care of the brand, they can actually charge generally higher than NCL and still continue to earn and fill ships.. and can now afford to do less last minute discounting compared with NCL and can still earn.

 

It is because they took care of their customers, earning goodwill and producing so many loyal members in the long run.... as they do less of what NCL did that agitated their guests.

Edited November 29, 2015 by roquejo

[david_sobe]

Nickel and Diming 101:

 

Has anyone ever stayed at a Hilton resort? They are nice and pet friendly but they nickel and dime you to death. Will it stop me from staying there again? Probably not. Here is a list of the nickel and diming the hotel puts you through. They charge for parking. No, not valet parking in a parking garage. Just to park in a wide open public parking lot you get charged. You also get charged a $10 daily resort fee to use the pools, hot tubs, gym, bikes, etc. They charge you for the internet. Many hotels have no fee for internet usage. I feel nickel and dimed to death and these are only a few of them.

 

Cruising like most vacation industries make a ton of money on nickel and diming customers. Pardon the pun but its what keeps them afloat. It gives them a big profit to order new ships. Of course NCL nickel and dimes like every other cruise line.

NCL charges for entertainment. While the magic show is fun and worthwhile, I have seen much better magic shows for free on land. The food was MDR quality so the entire charge is a way to nickel and dime customers. It used to be the norm that all entertainment was included in the cruise price. With the addition of the "service fee" on top of gratuity is of course another way to nickel and dime customers. I still don't understand the difference and why both are included especially since they already charge the daily auto gratuity.

Nickel and diming is just clever ways to boost revenue. Everyone does it. Some more than others. But no doubt the amount of fee increase changes with NCL over the past 10 months is hard to keep track of. Even the NCL CEO stated he wanted to get $50 more out of every customer. Just how is he going to accomplish this?

Not sure why this debate rages on this board and some get so defensive about it. I have never taken a vacation where I have not felt nickel and dimed for extras.

Edited November 29, 2015 by david_sobe

[NLH Arizona]

We may differ in opinions and argue whether there is nickle and diming or not, but the mere fact that some people are getting turned off by these practices and booked other cruise lines instead, there is really something wrong with the market approach...

 

Yes, some are turned off and are booking other cruise lines and that is their prerogative, but not everyone is turned off and running to other cruise lines, because we are all different and see things differently. A company can never make decisions that will keep everyone happy. A company always expects to turn off some customers when they make changes, NCL is no different, it is just the way business is. They will lose some customers, but will also gain customers. Bottom line is, if one doesn't like how a company is run, then they should probably look for a company that best suits what they are looking for.

[SeaShark]

We may differ in opinions and argue whether there is nickle and diming or not, but the mere fact that some people are getting turned off by these practices and booked other cruise lines instead, there is really something wrong with the market approach...

 

Recall how many CC members raised a howl when NCL charged for room service at the same time prevented guests from taking food into their stateroom? The timing alone is suspect.

 

and recall when they raised gratuities twice just few months apart....

 

when some NCL cruises got chartered, they only offered $50 OBC while RCCL went as far as offering $100 OBC plus reimbursement up to $200 for airline rebooking charges.

 

this does not bode well for the NCL brand.. look at RCCL, because they took care of the brand, they can actually charge generally higher than NCL and still continue to earn and fill ships.. and can now afford to do less last minute discounting compared with NCL and can still earn.

 

It is because they took care of their customers, earning goodwill and producing so many loyal members in the long run.... as they do less of what NCL did that agitated their guests.

 

Well...NCL will be just fine. As long as they don't try to offer things like Dynamic Dining or offering free "WOW" bands and then turning around and charging for them.

 

Imagine...asking to pay to have a fancy room key. :rolleyes:

[SeaShark]

Nickel and Diming 101:

 

Has anyone ever stayed at a Hilton resort? They are nice and pet friendly but they nickel and dime you to death. Will it stop me from staying there again? Probably not. Here is a list of the nickel and diming the hotel puts you through. They charge for parking. No, not valet parking in a parking garage. Just to park in a wide open public parking lot you get charged. You also get charged a $10 daily resort fee to use the pools, hot tubs, gym, bikes, etc. They charge you for the internet. Many hotels have no fee for internet usage. I feel nickel and dimed to death and these are only a few of them.

 

Cruising like most vacation industries make a ton of money on nickel and diming customers. Pardon the pun but its what keeps them afloat. It gives them a big profit to order new ships. Of course NCL nickel and dimes like every other cruise line.

NCL charges for entertainment. While the magic show is fun and worthwhile, I have seen much better magic shows for free on land. The food was MDR quality so the entire charge is a way to nickel and dime customers. It used to be the norm that all entertainment was included in the cruise price. With the addition of the "service fee" on top of gratuity is of course another way to nickel and dime customers. I still don't understand the difference and why both are included especially since they already charge the daily auto gratuity.

Nickel and diming is just clever ways to boost revenue. Everyone does it. Some more than others. But no doubt the amount of fee increase changes with NCL over the past 10 months is hard to keep track of. Even the NCL CEO stated he wanted to get $50 more out of every customer. Just how is he going to accomplish this?

Not sure why this debate rages on this board and some get so defensive about it. I have never taken a vacation where I have not felt nickel and dimed for extras.

 

The reason for the debate is that some people understand that nickel and diming refers to mandatory, unavoidable charges that should be included. As opposed to a vocal minority who mistakenly feel that having optional items available for a fee is nickel and diming.

 

The whining over it by those who like term, but don't understand its meaning, is so much like "The Fox and the Grapes" that if Aesop were here, he'd sue for copyright infringement.

[roquejo]

The reason for the debate is that some people understand that nickel and diming refers to mandatory, unavoidable charges that should be included. As opposed to a vocal minority who mistakenly feel that having optional items available for a fee is nickel and diming.

 

The whining over it by those who like term, but don't understand its meaning, is so much like "The Fox and the Grapes" that if Aesop were here, he'd sue for copyright infringement.

 

I agree that all companies must have a source of revenue streams to earn money.. it is really how you do it, and marketing has to be creative enough to do it in such a way it will turn off the least people, because it will affect your brand equity which is the overall worth of your brand.

 

Like for example, the free UDP freestyle choice, I agree initially it is a very good marketing move by NCL to offer it completely free.. because psychologically, when you say "free", people's mindset is, it is completely free so gratuities should be included.

 

Then suddenly, NCL began adding gratuity charges when it started as completely free, now the effect of this negative change is worse here than if NCL charged for gratuity the first time it introduced the UDP. I recall many got surprised when a gratuity charge began appearing in their reservation when they select UDP as freestyle choice.

 

Running the same promo, RCCL's Celebrity did it correctly and tactfully. They offered the middle tier Classic Beverage Package completely free, meaning gratuities included BUT, if you want to upgrade to Premium Beverage Package, you pay for the price difference PLUS 18% gratuity.

 

Now this is a better marketing strategy which will not turn off many people, as people will say.. "Fair enough".. since I actually paid the difference because I purposely want to upgrade, so it is ok that I'll be charged gratuity on that portion that is not free. But the portion up to the price of classic beverage package is completely given free (gratuities included).

 

See the difference between the 2 marketing approaches?

 

I recall reading an article somewhere in CC comparing the various cruise line, the article is correct in saying that RCCL has better marketing strategies than NCL. That is why RCCL has a solid base of loyal members.

Edited November 29, 2015 by roquejo

[Moby0215]

But the contract says

 

"fare paid by the Guest for this ticket includes transportation on the vessel named herein, full board, and ordinary vessel food, but does not include beer, wine, spirits, sodas or mineral waters, nor expenses incurred for other incidental or personal services/purchases"

 

And, for example, Margaritaville, was advertised as "ordinary vessel food" in the sense that it was included, and gratuity was advertised at 15%, etc.

 

What about the contract lets them change those terms they advertised and for which I made my final payment already?

 

 

Taking away Margaritaville from "ordinary vessel food" does not change the fact that NCL still provides the ordinary vessel food in other venues thus satisfying the guest contract.

 

Did you see anyone complain when they changed Shanghai from a paid restaurant to a complimentary? Of course not because it benefited the customer. But now that it's the other way around people want to complain.

 

 

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[motleyfan]

Taking away Margaritaville from "ordinary vessel food" does not change the fact that NCL still provides the ordinary vessel food in other venues thus satisfying the guest contract.

 

Did you see anyone complain when they changed Shanghai from a paid restaurant to a complimentary? Of course not because it benefited the customer. But now that it's the other way around people want to complain.

 

 

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Thank you exactly my point, no one complains when NCL does something like that but God forbid that try to be a business and make a little money and people freak out.

[Moby0215]

The Main dinning room never should have at an additional cost food items on the menu.

 

Room service was free up until a 5 months or so.....nickle and diming at its finest.

 

The two increases of the DSC is an obvious nickle and diming....can not say it's not. To say prepay your gratuities ...that is like given NCL and interest free loan....they make even more money by the way!

 

You also forgot the 20% increase in gratuities on every thing....from 15% to 18%

 

To answer the OP.....yes they are nickle and diming costomers...

 

 

1) you don't need to order the up charge items in the MDR.

2) the room service that was free did not include the items that are now available. This is an improvement. Plus no one is forcing you to order room service. You have plenty other options for food.

3) while I would never consider it...the DSC can be reduced/removed

4) changing specialty and beverage gratuity from 15 to 18%...what would you normally tip at a bar or restaurant? 18% is definitely the norm

 

 

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[motleyfan]

Nickel and diming is only valid if its a charge not an option.

[roquejo]

Well...NCL will be just fine. As long as they don't try to offer things like Dynamic Dining or offering free "WOW" bands and then turning around and charging for them.

 

Imagine...asking to pay to have a fancy room key. :rolleyes:

 

Dynamic Dining is not nickle and diming related as it is free, it is just an innovation but an operational/implementation failure. It's a new concept, but did not work the way they wanted... so they are trying to change it either to rotational dining on Quantum Classes or completely remove it on Oasis class ships.

 

Charging for WOW bands in Anthem did not raise as much howl or violent reactions for us compared to the changes NCL have been implemented because the way it has been marketed.

 

Recall when they introduced the WOW bands for the first time, RCCL said that it is optional and guest will be charged for it... then they finally decided to offer it for free to promote it.. and now they are just going back to the initial plan..

 

Again this is marketing, had they offered it for free for the first time then began charging for it.. it will get more negative reactions, than initially introducing it as charged, then waiving the charge temporarily to promote it, then bringing it back.

 

but WOW bands are still free in Quantum, and we can live without it.. it is OPTIONAL, like alternative dining.. as sea-pass cards work. So we didn't cry nickle and diming with the WOW bands in anthem.. since we can just opt not to purchase them.

 

One might argue that room service is also optional... yes.. but guest have been psychologically accustomed to room service being free in the cruise industry standard.. so with NCL charging for it, while rivals still not charging for it, can raise eyebrows.

 

Same with the reverse Nickle and Diming strategy, they first introduced celebrity chef resto Devinly Decadence in Quantum as charged... then made it free... so imaging the positive response it generated.

 

Cruise lines are all for profit and their purpose is to make money... it is how you market things that spells the difference.

Edited November 29, 2015 by roquejo

[Moby0215]

I'm sorry but I don't plan on suing over whether a burger is free or surcharged. But I do plan on critiquing the company and providing a review.

 

As for "generally" this is how my husband answers everything he has not carefully studied as laws vary by state and contracts can be formed in different states from the parties and a host of other factors which he is not going to get into as he has much better things to do than satisfy a poster who thinks advertising one thing and then providing another is ok.

 

 

It's your false misconception that they "advertised" it. Things are always subject to change.

 

 

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