Elevator death on the Ecstasy

[bluejay555]

My local news picked up this story and I think it's sad and ridiculous that this is "news". I really could have done without ever seeing this story.

[jimbo5544]

I would guess while his/her kids were being questioned.

 

 

Yeah I am sure that it was the people that did the questioning. Police gather information during interviews, not disperse it.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I just read about this horrible accident via a link on my MSN news this morning.

Prayers for the man's family and friends.

I am stunned that someone would video tape the blood running down the elevator doors.

[FrequentFlyKid]

My teenage children were in another elevator in this area headed up to deck 10. Their elevator stopped on 9 to let other passengers off. When the door opened, they were staring directly at the bloody elevator door. I believe, from their description, they were there slightly before this person captured his video.

 

I know that they have been replaying the episode in their heads, and have had dreams about what they saw that evening. Carnival is aware that they were present at the scene and has made no offer to provide them any assistance in coping with this tragic situation.

 

I mean this with all due respect, but as the parents of the these children don't you feel that the responsibility for providing coping assistance to your children falls onto you?

[Cruiseathoning]

mistakes people make is not letting professionals handle psychology. If you are saying that the parents should act as counselor, you are wrong. If you are saying that Carnival should not provide counseling to children who were traumatized by the scene, you are wrong.

 

Regardless of fault, it is in Carnival's best interest to provide assistance to these children, and it is certainly the morally responsible thing to do.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cruiseathoning

[Hunwolf]

I came here to see if there was any more information on the accident, but after reading some of these responses, particularly those to the father of the teenage children who witnessed the aftermath of this horrific accident, all I can say is that if these ships had to sail on the ocean of compassion in this thread you would all be permanently stuck in port.

 

 

 

Sympathies to the family of the deceased.

 

 

Kind of my thoughts. Seems to be a lot more efforts to defend the cruise line and find a way to turn this into a fabrication than actually look at it objectively.

[doog61]

I mean this with all due respect, but as the parents of the these children don't you feel that the responsibility for providing coping assistance to your children falls onto you?

 

I can not believe the number of post there are a few questioning this Parent! They only mentioned that there was no counselling offered they did'nt ask for it. If there is a death in a school counselors are brought in Firefighters and Police and other first responders seek counselling after bad accidents why would you assume a Parent is equipped to handle this situation when professional people seek help in similar situations.

[Hunwolf]

Most likely the ones accusing the parents of not doing their jobs don't have children themselves. Or they just aren't thinking this one through.

 

A trained counselor is much better equipped to handle a situation like this than someone, even a parent, with no background in counseling.

[FrequentFlyKid]

mistakes people make is not letting professionals handle psychology. If you are saying that the parents should act as counselor, you are wrong. If you are saying that Carnival should not provide counseling to children who were traumatized by the scene, you are wrong.

 

Regardless of fault, it is in Carnival's best interest to provide assistance to these children, and it is certainly the morally responsible thing to do.

 

I can not believe the number of post there are a few questioning this Parent! They only mentioned that there was no counselling offered they did'nt ask for it. If there is a death in a school counselors are brought in Firefighters and Police and other first responders seek counselling after bad accidents why would you assume a Parent is equipped to handle this situation when professional people seek help in similar situations.

 

You're both missing the point. I am not suggesting the parents act as counselors (I never said that) nor am I making any comment on whether Carnival should offer assistance (they probably should). My point is that as a parent it is the parent's responsibility to see that their children get counseling help if they need it and they shouldn't wait for it to come from someone else.

 

If you need immediate medical assistance you don't wait until you hash out whom is going to pay for it; you go and get help and then sort it out later. If you can wait to hash it out then it's not an immediate need.

[elliair]

Most likely the ones accusing the parents of not doing their jobs don't have children themselves. Or they just aren't thinking this one through.

 

A trained counselor is much better equipped to handle a situation like this than someone, even a parent, with no background in counseling.

 

I think Carnival should give everyone involved a free cruise. One that is stress free, no accidents, and one where several counselors are on board basking in the sun, enjoying all the amenities the ship has to offer. Once a day have a group meeting to discuss what they had seen and how to overcome those awful images that are burned in to their young brains. Have workshops and send the parents home with tools they can use to shield their little snowflakes from any dangers their children may face throughout their life. Remove all TV's, cell phones, video games, tablets, computers, attending violent movies, and never allow them to join the military. Just allow them to be innocent children in a violent sick world. Let that be their last cruise ever because Carnival cannot shield guests from any kind of accident that may occur on board. This is a win-win for everyone.

 

/sarc off

[trishnmike]

I can not believe the number of post there are a few questioning this Parent! They only mentioned that there was no counselling offered they did'nt ask for it. If there is a death in a school counselors are brought in Firefighters and Police and other first responders seek counselling after bad accidents why would you assume a Parent is equipped to handle this situation when professional people seek help in similar situations.

 

 

Amen ... Y'all do realize that counseling can cost from $100 - $250 an hour. I don't have young kids and can't afford that.

[Cruiseathoning]

but why do you assume just because WingNut71 did not get offered assistance, he/she did not seek it independently?

[Hunwolf]

I think Carnival should give everyone involved a free cruise. One that is stress free, no accidents, and one where several counselors are on board basking in the sun, enjoying all the amenities the ship has to offer. Once a day have a group meeting to discuss what they had seen and how to overcome those awful images that are burned in to their young brains. Have workshops and send the parents home with tools they can use to shield their little snowflakes from any dangers their children may face throughout their life. Remove all TV's, cell phones, video games, tablets, computers, attending violent movies, and never allow them to join the military. Just allow them to be innocent children in a violent sick world. Let that be their last cruise ever because Carnival cannot shield guests from any kind of accident that may occur on board. This is a win-win for everyone.

 

/sarc off

 

 

Surely you have the mental capacity to understand that this was a bit beyond the norm.

 

Or maybe you don't.

[JJandJJ]

I work in a hospital trauma department and that is very likely blood. There are any number of not-discussion-worthy scenarios whereby a human body could produce such a flow, for a short time at least. If there is "good" news in this tragedy, it's that the man likely died very very quickly and hopefully didn't suffer.

 

Prayers to the victim's family and to all who had to witness this horrifying event, especially to the first responders and to the inevitable clean-up crew. I cannot even imagine.

[ajee622]

Truly sad. I'm hoping carnival compensates the persons family very well. All of those workers are under paid.

 

I don't have a problem with the guy filming it because carnival would downplay the tragedy like it was something minor. When in all actuality their ships are so outdated and under maintenance stuff like this is going to happen.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hunwolf]

Truly sad. I'm hoping carnival compensates the persons family very well. All of those workers are under paid.

 

I don't have a problem with the guy filming it because carnival would downplay the tragedy like it was something minor. When in all actuality their ships are so outdated and under maintenance stuff like this is going to happen.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Agree with this.

[Cruiseathoning]

I have no idea why it is so in vogue to question the toughness of parents and children who simply don't want to be exposed to the world's ills. Yes it is a violent sick world, it is also a beautiful benevolent world. Sometimes it is neutral.

 

But in a situation like this, the whole "walk it off" attitude leaves plenty of room for a wound to fester. A psychological trauma to a snowflake as you call them is an injury, not a character flaw, and as such, demands proper treatment. Perhaps this disconnect explains millenial passivism vs. baby boomer alcoholism. We all cope one way or another, whether we realize it or not.

[trishnmike]

I can't believe that we are sitting here attacking each other. When if anything our thoughts should be with the poor man who suffered a horrendous death. His family who must not only deal with the fact this man is gone, but knowing that his last moments were of that magnitude. Of the coworkers who cared about him and those who had to see it. And who had to suck it up and still make sure the passengers were happy. Of the bystanders who happened upon this horrible scene. My thoughts go out to these people.

[squiffynimrod]

Yeah, motorcycles are dangerous.

 

Don't get me started.......................

[CruiseHealing]

 

 

That is what you are suppose to do, wait and let the experts take control of the problem. I have had the experience of being stuck in an elevator for over 90 minutes 11 floors above ground. It was an elevator in a downtown Houston Skyscraper. The phone did not work and this was before cell phones. After 20 minutes of yelling for help, a maintenance guy finally yelled back how many people were with me (2). He said do NOT try to open the doors and do not move around too much until they can assess the issue. About an hour later, they secured the car and open the door above us and pulled each of us out. The two other passengers got a little claustrophobic, but we kept pretty calm by talking about our different lives and jobs.

 

After the whole ordeal was over, I asked the maintenance guy what was the problem? Internal computer issue and a broken emergency phone. He said that if we had try to open the doors, it could trig the car to go down at a rapid speed and then the emergency brake would be triggered for a rough stop. I did go back to work for the rest of the day.

[Cruiseathoning]

understood how the state could require me, inside of an enclosed vehicle, to wear safety restraints while allowing people to hurtle down pavement at 70 mph held only by their hands, and sometimes without a helmet. I just chalk it up to some lobby and let it go. If that is your thing, so be it. Just seems incongruous is all.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cruiseathoning

[squiffynimrod]

understood how the state could require me, inside of an enclosed vehicle, to wear safety restraints while allowing people to hurdle down pavement at 70 mph held only by their hands, and sometimes without a helmet. I just chalk it up to some lobby and let it go. If that is your thing, so be it. Just seems incongruous is all.

 

You only see the largest, most visible and probably most dangerous facet of this sport.

 

You need to read Jupiter's Travels.

 

http://jupitalia.com/

[emory2001]

I cannot believe the inhumanity in this thread. Cannot believe it. :(

[Lady Hudson]

I was on QM2 this summer when a crew member died. Very sad for all. There was a collection taken up for the crew member's family. Hope the same happens in this case. Many family members may be affected by this crew member's death.

[elc32955]

Few thoughts on this chain of events;

 

1) There's more then one element involved in this horrible industrial accident. I'd strongly suspect when the investigation is completed, you'll find a number of factors contributing to the unfortunate outcome. If the crew member knowingly placed himself in a potential situation to become impaled on moving parts without first assuring himself that there was no possible way that elevator was going to move or activate, this potentially points to either A) improper training/procedural violations, B) potential impaired decision making by the deceased employee or other employees (tox screens would be key here as well as reconstructing the electrician's last hours), and/or C) evaluating the possibility of management pressure for a quick fix to a problem that caused safety bypasses... and we all know no employees are EVER pressured on cruise ships... or are ever found to be impaired... And no, I'm not laying blame or finding fault here. All factors to consider in a normal investigation of an industrial accident.

 

2) Building on #1 and comments from a previous poster, Lock Out/Tag Out. There had to be more hands in the mix here then just one unfortunate electrician, but at the end of the day the ultimate person responsible for your own safety is YOU. People do get lax, bypass steps, don't follow procedures. The end result is usually not good.

 

3) Regarding the aired footage, you have to remember there are usually very good pools of money sitting in television news operations just waiting for someone to call with exclusive footage of a juicy news story. Stations pay very well for on-scene views and their ratings go up as a result. The fact that an outside media outlet ended up with the footage just confirms to me that this passenger was possibly hungry for money. Traumatized? Yeah, all the way to the bank. People are normally not motivated to just give out footage like that from the goodness of their hearts.

 

4) On the flip side, the Miami TV station should have been sensitive to the family and to their viewers. The decision to air that footage was just plain wrong. The footage following the Disney monorail crash in Orlando a few years back resulting in a fatality didn't show the driver that was killed and that was marginal to air at best. Call the station's General Manager, file a FCC complaint, and calling the station's sponsors and complain are the best way to keep that behavior from repeating again. If you let them get away with it, it'll just be worse next time.

 

5) If I remember correctly, there's a little clause in the standard Carnival cruise contract that states that any images/video footage filmed in, on, or about the ship during the cruise is the property of Carnival, I'm going by memory and naturally paraphrasing here. Carnival could have (not saying SHOULD have) politely reviewed and impounded the guy's footage as being material evidence to a death investigation & a potential crime scene, however they did not. Perhaps what their procedures are in those kind of incidents needs to be looked at more closely.

 

Anyway, I'm coming at this from an investigations background, like several other professional folks on here. Terrible incident, my sympathies go out to the family. However, the key here is to prevent this from ever, ever happening again - fleet wide!

 

Eric