Class is back

[astro1861]

I think some people misunderstood what the OP was referring to by a "class system." The OP was not referring to social standing or elegance or sophistication. IMO the OP was referring to the something actually called the "class system" that existed on ocean liners long ago. In that system, passengers were divided into first class, second class, and third class (sometimes called tourist class) based on the price of their ticket. Each class had its own section of the ship and its own dining room and its own service staff. Each class was restricted to its own part of the ship.

 

As ocean liners evolved into cruise ships, the class system was eliminated and all passengers had access to all public areas on the ship, including the dining rooms.

 

I think the OP is worried that the cruise industry is moving a little bit towards a kind of class system in which suite passengers have exclusive access to certain parts of the ship. While I do not agree with this assessment, I can understand why the OP may feel this way. Only time will tell how far this trend continues.

 

IMO the people who really want exclusivity do not cruise on mass-market cruise lines. There are specific cruise lines that cater to the well-heeled traveler.

[Kingofwylietx]

I think some people misunderstood what the OP was referring to by a "class system." The OP was not referring to social standing or elegance or sophistication. IMO the OP was referring to the something actually called the "class system" that existed on ocean liners long ago. In that system, passengers were divided into first class, second class, and third class (sometimes called tourist class) based on the price of their ticket.

Interesting, I didn't think of it like that. I was thinking more along the lines of social stratum, since I'm not really familiar with how they used to divide passengers on ocean liners. But, if that's how they used to do it, then that may very well be what he was saying. Looking back, I could see that.

 

IMO the people who really want exclusivity do not cruise on mass-market cruise lines. Totally agree, but they do miss out on all the fun things you can do on a large cruise ship. I guess that isn't what they are looking to do.

 

You definitely have me looking at the OP's post differently

[John&LaLa]

You definitely have me looking at the OP's post differently

 

You might want to rent Titanic this weekend. ;)

[Kingofwylietx]

You might want to rent Titanic this weekend. ;)

 

Haha! I saw it when it came out, but it's been a loooong time since then. I do seem to recall a barrier/wall of some sort that the young couple jumped over to get to a different area. Hmmmm....

 

My wife would probably love to see it again. Heck, we probably have that movie somewhere in our home.

[John&LaLa]

Haha! I saw it when it came out, but it's been a loooong time since then. I do seem to recall a barrier/wall of some sort that the young couple jumped over to get to a different area. Hmmmm....

 

My wife would probably love to see it again. Heck, we probably have that movie somewhere in our home.

 

We have it on VHS, it took two tapes if I recall. Now if I can just locate a VHS player

[Kingofwylietx]

We have it on VHS, it took two tapes if I recall. Now if I can just locate a VHS player

 

Two tapes? Isn't that like, what, 20 minutes worth of rewinding when you are done? :p

 

I bet any hi-fi audio store would have a VHS player. It should be located somewhere around the 8-track players, pagers, tape recorders, and punch card machines. :)

[tlatrice]

Two tapes? Isn't that like, what, 20 minutes worth of rewinding when you are done? :p

 

I bet any hi-fi audio store would have a VHS player. It should be located somewhere around the 8-track players, pagers, tape recorders, and punch card machines. :)

 

Best buy still has them. As do pawn shops.

 

I still have one, too...don't judge me ;):p

[Artemis908]

Best buy still has them. As do pawn shops.

 

I still have one, too...don't judge me ;):p

 

I think I am in the last generation of people who will ever know what "Be kind, please rewind" means. :)

[AF-1]

I totally get where the OP is coming from. Like other people mentioned; there were different areas of the ship allocated to what price ticket you bought. Cunard lines still uses this today. There are certain dining rooms on Queen Mary 2 that regular passengers can not use; that being said; Royal and the other cruise lines are building their newer ships Anthem, Harmony, Oasis, and Allure much like new stadiums. Take Dallas Cowboys Stadium; do you think the owner of the stadium makes more money selling individual tickets to games or selling the luxury suites to corporations and clients. They sell one suite for an entire year and that is more than selling 100 tickets. That stadium has over 50 luxury boxes. Its all about the bucks.

[ccotting]

I think some people misunderstood what the OP was referring to by a "class system." The OP was not referring to social standing or elegance or sophistication. IMO the OP was referring to the something actually called the "class system" that existed on ocean liners long ago. In that system, passengers were divided into first class, second class, and third class (sometimes called tourist class) based on the price of their ticket. Each class had its own section of the ship and its own dining room and its own service staff. Each class was restricted to its own part of the ship.

 

As ocean liners evolved into cruise ships, the class system was eliminated and all passengers had access to all public areas on the ship, including the dining rooms.

 

I think the OP is worried that the cruise industry is moving a little bit towards a kind of class system in which suite passengers have exclusive access to certain parts of the ship. While I do not agree with this assessment, I can understand why the OP may feel this way. Only time will tell how far this trend continues.

 

IMO the people who really want exclusivity do not cruise on mass-market cruise lines. There are specific cruise lines that cater to the well-heeled traveler.

 

 

Yep, Gramma took me on my first cruise in 1967 on a P&O and it was exactly like that. No going between the barriers between classes and the staff definitely made distinctions in how people were treated. We children however found ways around it and managed to play together. The staff didn't really register us in the same way as adults and often missed our escapades. But it has set a life long aversion to this system in me. I agree with those who are complaining about barriers to multiple sections of the ship. I think keeping a sun deck free for suites is fine since there is so much territorial ambition for deck chairs but now we are going back to sections of ships, restaurants and such. I sincerely hope the trend does not continue and agree with the comment that if that is what a passenger wants, they should choose a different line. The cruise lines need to make a decision about the level of client and service they want to provide. The recent huge emphasis on suite pax for the mid level cruise lines suggests the margin is pretty darn good for the company and not a good buy for dollar to my mind.

[rcclfanbp]

I am "first class" no matter how I choose to travel.:)

 

You go girl!!! (lol)

[davy jones]

I think some people misunderstood what the OP was referring to by a "class system." The OP was not referring to social standing or elegance or sophistication. IMO the OP was referring to the something actually called the "class system" that existed on ocean liners long ago. In that system, passengers were divided into first class, second class, and third class (sometimes called tourist class) based on the price of their ticket. Each class had its own section of the ship and its own dining room and its own service staff. Each class was restricted to its own part of the ship.

 

As ocean liners evolved into cruise ships, the class system was eliminated and all passengers had access to all public areas on the ship, including the dining rooms.

 

I think the OP is worried that the cruise industry is moving a little bit towards a kind of class system in which suite passengers have exclusive access to certain parts of the ship. While I do not agree with this assessment, I can understand why the OP may feel this way. Only time will tell how far this trend continues.

 

IMO the people who really want exclusivity do not cruise on mass-market cruise lines. There are specific cruise lines that cater to the well-heeled traveler.

 

There are indications that the industry is heading in the direction that the OP fears. Newer Royal ships have restaurants, lounges, reserved seating areas and other perks. NCL has the Haven. Celebrity has aqua class, etc. Carnival gets slammed on CC for their "lack" of suite perks and they even now have spa cabins and the like.

 

While there are lines that cater to folks that want true exclusivity, there are some people who do want to flaunt their onboard status, as evidenced by some of the discussions here.

 

I just hope that the we never have to find out if the status systems extend to the lifeboats. :)

[LMaxwell]

The change on Oasis-Class to restricting entry to the Viking Crown Lounge was a big step in the direction OP is talking about. I really dislike the idea, though I understand and agree that suites should have their own lounge. Poor implementation of the idea, IMO.

[ShakyBeef]

There are indications that the industry is heading in the direction that the OP fears. Newer Royal ships have restaurants, lounges, reserved seating areas and other perks. NCL has the Haven. Celebrity has aqua class, etc. Carnival gets slammed on CC for their "lack" of suite perks and they even now have spa cabins and the like.

 

While there are lines that cater to folks that want true exclusivity, there are some people who do want to flaunt their onboard status, as evidenced by some of the discussions here.

 

I just hope that the we never have to find out if the status systems extend to the lifeboats. :)

 

And there are also some people, such as myself, that don't have any interest in "flaunting onboard status", but want to get the extra perks (which include exclusive services) that we pay for in the Suite price, as well as to enjoy everything else the typical-size, mainstream cruiseship has to offer.

 

I don't understand the disdain for Suite passengers from non-Suite passengers on these boards. We all chose the cabin we want, and pay the price for it. Don't the Suite-haters realize that Suite passengers are helping to subsidize the haters' lower cost cruise fares?

[LMaxwell]

And there are also some people, such as myself, that don't have any interest in "flaunting onboard status", but want to get the extra perks (which include exclusive services) that we pay for in the Suite price, as well as to enjoy everything else the typical-size, mainstream cruiseship has to offer.

 

I don't understand the disdain for Suite passengers from non-Suite passengers on these boards. We all chose the cabin we want, and pay the price for it. Don't the Suite-haters realize that Suite passengers are helping to subsidize the haters' lower cost cruise fares?

 

I don't hate suite pax. they pay a lot. they should get a lot. no question there. and suite pax should not have to share private lounges with C&A members. The C&A count can vary greatly cruise to cruise, so that can impact the experience in shared C&A/ suites only areas.

 

It used to be however that suite pax got the bigger room and a few amenities, but the ship was available for all to utilize. Once you left your room it was more egalitarian and did not matter if you were in a small interior or a grand suite with all spaces/lounges open for everyone.

 

Calling the move towards suites enclaves the return of a class system is not hating on suite pax, I think it's just an accurate labeling of what is going on objectively speaking. Spaces limited to the exclusive use of 5% of guests limits for 95% the most valuable finite commodity a ship has; space. I think the restriction of the VCL was a bad move from a non-suite guest perspective. But I understand it. I'll be sailing MSC Divina where, as I understand, I won't be able to get a view off the front of the ship because I'm not staying in the suites enclave. Don't like it either, but I get it. Similar with the new Princess ships and NCL ships.

 

Maybe eventually if I feel like space and options are too limited for non-suite pax, cruising won't be for me? I hope I don't get that feeling

Edited February 20, 2016 by LMaxwell

[knittinggirl]

Well, in years past, the suites simply got larger spaces....but everyone got to use the public spaces equally...not today, tho! Not saying it's right or wrong...but it's not how it was 20 years ago! EVERYONE was treated like royalty!

Haven't suite class always had the concierge lounge?

 

I don't mind the private area for the Suite Classes and Diamonds and up. I do mind the common areas being turned into more money making areas: guest rooms, specialty dining, etc. Especially guest rooms, we pack more people into a smaller MDR. By that I mean, when we cruised Jewel, they had a separate dining room at the side that is now guest rooms, and it was full! So more the people who used to be assigned that dining room are in the larger area.

[Clarea]

Haven't suite class always had the concierge lounge?....

I think the CL on Royal first appeared in 1999 on Voyager.

[ShakyBeef]

I don't hate suite pax. they pay a lot. they should get a lot. no question there. and suite pax should not have to share private lounges with C&A members. The C&A count can vary greatly cruise to cruise, so that can impact the experience in shared C&A/ suites only areas.

 

It used to be however that suite pax got the bigger room and a few amenities, but the ship was available for all to utilize. Once you left your room it was more egalitarian and did not matter if you were in a small interior or a grand suite with all spaces/lounges open for everyone.

 

Calling the move towards suites enclaves the return of a class system is not hating on suite pax, I think it's just an accurate labeling of what is going on objectively speaking. Spaces limited to the exclusive use of 5% of guests limits for 95% the most valuable finite commodity a ship has; space. I think the restriction of the VCL was a bad move from a non-suite guest perspective. But I understand it. I'll be sailing MSC Divina where, as I understand, I won't be able to get a view off the front of the ship because I'm not staying in the suites enclave. Don't like it either, but I get it. Similar with the new Princess ships and NCL ships.

 

Maybe eventually if I feel like space and options are too limited for non-suite pax, cruising won't be for me? I hope I don't get that feeling

 

Back when Suite pax got few perks, were the Suite prices as high as they are today, in relation to other cabin categories? If so, I would guess the RCI might have had trouble filling the Suites.

 

I don't think that pointing out the way in which RCI and other lines seem to be taking part of their business model (exclusive ship-within-a-ship type experience for upper level Suites) is hating on Suite pax. And FWIW, I don't remember you doing any of the "hating" to which I was referring.

 

I was referring to particular snide and derisive comments sprinkled throughout this and other threads on Suite topics, by several posters, that seem to direct hate at the Suite pax. It just seems the "hate" is fairly common. And I don't understand whence it truly stems. Is it transference of the anger people feel towards the cruiseline, to the Suite pax that are simply the ones that took the cruiseline up on the offer of all the perks?

 

I know I seem to be asking you, LMaxwell, all these questions, since I quoted your post, but I don't intend it that way. I'm just expressing my bewilderment at the seemingly widespread, and IMO, unwarranted animosity towards a particular group of fellow passengers.

 

The cruiselines do seem to be making this move to woo higher-paying customers. I think it's a good idea for the bottom line and for all the passengers. There don't seem to be huge chunks of space taken from all to give to Suite guests. Although I can see how just the principle of them taking anything away would rub some the wrong way. But if RCI doesn't do enough to justify those high Suite prices, that money will go elsewhere, to other lines do. And RCI would have to carve those Suites into several small cabins and cram more people onto the ship to try to recoup that lost revenue. That wouldn't be good for anybody.

[KKMurphy2]

Haven't suite class always had the concierge lounge?

 

I don't mind the private area for the Suite Classes and Diamonds and up. I do mind the common areas being turned into more money making areas: guest rooms, specialty dining, etc. Especially guest rooms, we pack more people into a smaller MDR. By that I mean, when we cruised Jewel, they had a separate dining room at the side that is now guest rooms, and it was full! So more the people who used to be assigned that dining room are in the larger area.

 

I so agree with you! We were on the Jewel in April and I felt so sorry for the waiters. They could not even move between the tables!

[LMaxwell]

 

"my bewilderment at the seemingly widespread... unwarranted animosity. "

 

 

That sums up my Cruise Critic experience, lol.

 

I will noodle on the rest of your thoughts a bit as well. No worries, I realize we are just discussing points of view. I did not consider your response to be aimed at me or looking to me as if I have the magic / correct answers.

[ShakyBeef]

That sums up my Cruise Critic experience, lol.

 

I will noodle on the rest of your thoughts a bit as well. No worries, I realize we are just discussing points of view. I did not consider your response to be aimed at me or looking to me as if I have the magic / correct answers.

 

Yep, you hit that nail on the head.:p

 

I appreciate it. I've always found you to be one of the reasonable ones, even when we are of opposing viewpoints.:)

[John&LaLa]

I think the CL on Royal first appeared in 1999 on Voyager.

 

So on a ship like Legend, what used to be where the current lounges are?

[Clarea]

So on a ship like Legend, what used to be where the current lounges are?

On Legend, the lounges where put on the pool deck in the area where you could stay outside and pass from the main pool area to the Solarium. May have been some tables there, or the ping pong. Of all the Vision class lounges that were added, I liked these the best because they were one deck from the suites, so we didn't use the elevator.

Edited February 20, 2016 by clarea

[Setting sail for fun]

I don't hate suite pax. they pay a lot. they should get a lot. no question there. and suite pax should not have to share private lounges with C&A members. The C&A count can vary greatly cruise to cruise, so that can impact the experience in shared C&A/ suites only areas.

 

It used to be however that suite pax got the bigger room and a few amenities, but the ship was available for all to utilize. Once you left your room it was more egalitarian and did not matter if you were in a small interior or a grand suite with all spaces/lounges open for everyone.

 

Calling the move towards suites enclaves the return of a class system is not hating on suite pax, I think it's just an accurate labeling of what is going on objectively speaking. Spaces limited to the exclusive use of 5% of guests limits for 95% the most valuable finite commodity a ship has; space. I think the restriction of the VCL was a bad move from a non-suite guest perspective. But I understand it. I'll be sailing MSC Divina where, as I understand, I won't be able to get a view off the front of the ship because I'm not staying in the suites enclave. Don't like it either, but I get it. Similar with the new Princess ships and NCL ships.

 

Maybe eventually if I feel like space and options are too limited for non-suite pax, cruising won't be for me? I hope I don't get that feeling

 

I couldn't have said it better myself! The VCL has always been one of our favorite lounges.

[ccotting]

When I posted earlier about my childhood experience with cruise classes I think the thing that most made an impression on me and my friends was that if we followed the rules, we children would not have met each other.

 

Regardless of the financial status of each family we enjoyed each other and thought it was stupid we weren't supposed to play together. Play was play and fun was fun. That was important to us.

 

I offer this to the discussion. If as a suite passenger you have your own restaurant, sun lounge and drinks bar, when do you meet the community of passengers?