Argh, tipping.

[GUT2407]

No I want first world standards at Third World prices. People who work directly for me or provide service they get reward. I did not go into McDonald's in the United States and tip as it is not a service that should be tipped.

 

Royal offers complete packages paying dishwashers, bar backs runners, kitchen staff is all on them. The cabin Attendant provides direct service he/she should be tipped if the service has been provided. But the laundry room staff, housekeeper mangers all are again on Royal. And that why I remove auto tips. When I tip it is directly to the people I want to have tips.

 

Please please explain what it is that makes a server at McDonalds second class so as not to warrant tips. Because it s yet another string to the US tipping bi that just doesn't make sense to me.

[MicCanberra]

On the Solstice currently are Canadian, South African, Italian bar servers as well as those from so called third world countries. Is Canada, South Africa and Italy now considered third world?

I wouldn't think so.

[Beanb41]

I wouldn't think so.

 

Exactly but bigotry is alive and well in some "third world" countries though and its a shame

[Expat Cruise]

On the Solstice currently are Canadian, South African, Italian bar servers as well as those from so called third world countries. Is Canada, South Africa and Italy now considered third world?

 

You will always find exceptions, the overwhelming majority of the service staff on Royal is from third World Countries. Royal is targeting having 30% of the work force from the Philippines with a current hiring push for 30,000 new employees from here. The statements are correct.

[Expat Cruise]

Please please explain what it is that makes a server at McDonalds second class so as not to warrant tips. Because it s yet another string to the US tipping bi that just doesn't make sense to me.

 

McDonald's is not a tip position, the corporation pays their employees and does not rely upon holding up value clients for extra fees.

[CeeCee59]

Some interesting information here: http://www.foodwoolf.com/2010/08/history-of-tipping.html

 

Perpetuating the master/servant relationship.

[joandian]

Unlike the cruise lines, wait staff in restaurants in the US do work hard for their tips

 

Obviously the writer of this comment hasn't been cruising for a long time. The staff on cruise ships work very long hours and work extremely hard for their pay.

 

An example of a waitress in Café Bacio on the Celebrity Solstice started at 9.00 am and finished at 1.00 am the following morning with a 2 hour break during the day and was back in the Café at 7.00 am the following morning and we saw her still at work after the late show at 10 pm.

 

These people work extremely hard and always still have a smile for even the most thankless of passenger. A café worker on shore would have kittens if they had to work as hard and the hours of a cruise worker

 

You didn't quote my whole sentence... Unlike the cruise lines, wait staff in restaurants in the US do work hard for their tips since some are only paid around $2.50 per hour.

 

That bold section about their pay rate is my point. I have cruised a lot and know those on board work very hard, and we always tip them way more than our prepaid gratuities, and I wasn't saying that they don't. I was saying those in US restaurants get paid very low hourly rates.

 

As someone else posted, cruise staff are getting paid well in comparison to most in their home countries. Wait staff in the US, low on the scale so need their tips to survive.

[joandian]

Please please explain what it is that makes a server at McDonalds second class so as not to warrant tips. Because it s yet another string to the US tipping bi that just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Not second class. Tipping just isn't the thing in McDonald's, Starbucks and other fast food/take away/drive through establishments. They will often have a tip jar on the counter and some might drop their coin change in, but most don't.

[Beanb41]

If life is so tough in the hospitality industry in the USA perhaps they should take up life on cruise ships and improve their standard of living. Heaven forbid that a resident of a third world country should be able to earn more than a resident of the greatest first world country on the planet for doing a similar job. I do wonder if they would be able to keep up over a 7 month contract with limited time off and no union. I know my New Zealand hospitality workers would struggle

[joandian]

If life is so tough in the hospitality industry in the USA perhaps they should take up life on cruise ships and improve their standard of living. Heaven forbid that a resident of a third world country should be able to earn more than a resident of the greatest first world country on the planet for doing a similar job. I do wonder if they would be able to keep up over a 7 month contract with limited time off and no union. I know my New Zealand hospitality workers would struggle

 

Again, you are taking everything out of context. You sure have a bee in your bonnet today.

[GUT2407]

Not second class. Tipping just isn't the thing in McDonald's, Starbucks and other fast food/take away/drive through establishments. They will often have a tip jar on the counter and some might drop their coin change in, but most don't.

 

 

I know it isn't a thing a Macca's my question is why isn't it?

[The_Big_M]

So I'm incongruous for wanting 1st World Services and 3nd World pricing but RCCL is doing the right thing by charging 1st World Pricing and Standards (Tipping, Etc) but hiring 3nd World Staff?

 

So you think they should discriminate where people come from?

 

As far as I know, each person in the role gets a similar wage regardless of their origin/nationality. You can be Australian, Romanian, Italian or Indonesian.

 

Do you really believe they are hiring 3nd World Staff because they are the best available or because they are the best value for the company?

 

The bulk of their income is from the customers, as per the American tipping model, hence your argument is moot since the "value" is to the passenger, not the company.

 

And then on top of that the staff have to deliver to the required standard, hence why ratings are taken and important. Again, there is no differing standard depending on nationality.

 

I'm wrong for wanting the same level of control and costing over my personal funds but Royal is right for wanting to do the same thing with costs and payroll?

 

OK I understand now you support a double standard here. Thank you for making that clear.

 

Given I said no such thing, and your arguments don't make any logical sense, it's evident the "clarity" is only in your own mind.

Edited April 4, 2016 by The_Big_M

[The_Big_M]

I know it isn't a thing a Macca's my question is why isn't it?

 

Maccas and the other establishments are fast food, not traditional restaurants.

 

You don't have table service; you just go to the counter and get your order. The guy at the cash register just takes your order and gives your food; the transaction is over in a few minutes. Same as a petrol station, chemist or other retail store e.g. Macys, which also don't get tipped.

 

Waiters and table service are different where they spend more time, bring different dishes and orders, give recommendations and so on. The only common link is food, but it's meant to be about the service and interaction, not the product.

[Expat Cruise]

So you think they should discriminate where people come from?

 

As far as I know, each person in the role gets a similar wage regardless of their origin/nationality. You can be Australian, Romanian, Italian or Indonesian.

 

 

 

The bulk of their income is from the customers, as per the American tipping model, hence your argument is moot since the "value" is to the passenger, not the company.

 

And then on top of that the staff have to deliver to the required standard, hence why ratings are taken and important. Again, there is no differing standard depending on nationality.

 

 

 

Given I said no such thing, and your arguments don't make any logical sense, it's evident the "clarity" is only in your own mind.

 

I think we should just agree to disagree as I see nothing worth my time in your points. And since I'm sure you will not agree with my side and I would never agree with you. So you keep doing whatever you want and I will do the same. Very proud to say I have never paid auto daily gratuities on any Royal Cruise, and never will.

[Expat Cruise]

If life is so tough in the hospitality industry in the USA perhaps they should take up life on cruise ships and improve their standard of living. Heaven forbid that a resident of a third world country should be able to earn more than a resident of the greatest first world country on the planet for doing a similar job. I do wonder if they would be able to keep up over a 7 month contract with limited time off and no union. I know my New Zealand hospitality workers would struggle

 

The general tone here seems to be if you agree with what others post you are welcome but if you have different beliefs you are wrong. This site very much takes a Untied States view of the World wanting to imposes US standards. What many fail to understand is half of Royal's market is outside the United States, and the US viewpoint is not the World viewpoint.

 

But cannot really blame these posters as most have no idea about the real World outside the United States. With limited interaction only as tourist. If you want to tell people from non tipping countries about life maybe you should spent extended time in those countries first and learn the culture. Not have the arrogated viewpoint that the American way is the best and right way....

 

And before the flames come out I and my parents are/ were Americans, born and raised.... So I can speak from both sides having lived outside the United States for many years.

[mrs and mrs]

The general tone here seems to be if you agree with what others post you are welcome but if you have different beliefs you are wrong. This site very much takes a Untied States view of the World wanting to imposes US standards. What many fail to understand is half of Royal's market is outside the United States, and the US viewpoint is not the World viewpoint.

 

But cannot really blame these posters as most have no idea about the real World outside the United States. With limited interaction only as tourist. If you want to tell people from non tipping countries about life maybe you should spent extended time in those countries first and learn the culture. Not have the arrogated viewpoint that the American way is the best and right way....

 

And before the flames come out I and my parents are/ were Americans, born and raised.... So I can speak from both sides having lived outside the United States for many years.

 

And with that i agree wholeheartedly,not so much the arrogant viewpoint of the american way,but most of your responces have been worthwhile,ha ha ill join you in getting flamed ex-pat.The problem is most of the posters here are old timers,with many cruisers under their belts,and alot of their advice is invaluable,but guess what boys and girls they will shuffle on,and the newbies (50-60 yr olds) will be taking their spots,with new ideas and opinions.Alot of us newbies have a lot of respect for those who come before us,but it dosent mean you can own,our views,intelligence and ideas.And respect goes both ways.We are a lesbian couple and have been disrespected so many times by oldies on cruises its pathetic.You see the youngies dont care,they just dont care they are to busy enjoying themselves,to whisper,stare,make dirisive comments etc etc.Sort of like a new world order really.Now having said that,we have meet some wonderful oldies,far more than the dinosaurs.

 

love seeing rants and using their rants as an excuse,to have a little rant myself.

STICK TO YOUR GUNS EXPAT,YOU HAVE A RIGHT:cool:

 

Let the flaming begin 3,2,1

[Expat Cruise]

mrs and mrs

 

Yes the more people try to flame me the more I know I am right. Besides how can anyone really let anything posted blind mean anything. This site allows, well actually requires people to hide behind false names so I would never use anything here as a final say or ruling. But is is a good place to start and then confirm using outside sources and information.

 

The only rules I go by here is:

 

Post what I believe or know is the truth

 

Never compromise my own values or opinions

 

Respect every ones right to be heard and express themselves

 

And then do exactly what I believe is correct.

[The_Big_M]

I think we should just agree to disagree as I see nothing worth my time in your points. And since I'm sure you will not agree with my side and I would never agree with you. So you keep doing whatever you want and I will do the same. Very proud to say I have never paid auto daily gratuities on any Royal Cruise, and never will.

 

Given I gave detailed examples, to say "nothing is worth your time" suggests more that you are unable to answer rather than any worth of their merits.

 

However, I haven't said you shouldn't do what you decide, just the merits of your arguments. I'm happy to leave my statements as they are.

[The_Big_M]

But cannot really blame these posters as most have no idea about the real World outside the United States. With limited interaction only as tourist. If you want to tell people from non tipping countries about life maybe you should spent extended time in those countries first and learn the culture. Not have the arrogated viewpoint that the American way is the best and right way....

 

And before the flames come out I and my parents are/ were Americans, born and raised.... So I can speak from both sides having lived outside the United States for many years.

 

How ironically amusing, again.

 

You're posting in an Australian/NZ forum, where almost all, if not all the posters in this recent discussion have been non-US - yet you then claim "most have no idea about the real world outside the United States."

 

Has as much accuracy as many of your other claims though, so not surprising...

[Expat Cruise]

Given I gave detailed examples, to say "nothing is worth your time" suggests more that you are unable to answer rather than any worth of their merits.

 

However, I haven't said you shouldn't do what you decide, just the merits of your arguments. I'm happy to leave my statements as they are.

 

I did answer your posts but you just don't want too or can't see the answers and cannot defend against what was said. Your arguments remind me of the beef cows being lead in a slaughter, just moving along unaware of the truth.

 

So as I already said we will agree to disagree.

[The_Big_M]

I did answer your posts but you just don't want too or can't see the answers and cannot defend against what was said. Your arguments remind me of the beef cows being lead in a slaughter, just moving along unaware of the truth.

 

So as I already said we will agree to disagree.

 

No, you didn't respond to the points except to say "I think we should just agree to disagree as I see nothing worth my time in your points. "

 

More revisionism.

[happysnapper]

Love a good debate but I am afraid no one will win this one.

[Expat Cruise]

Love a good debate but I am afraid no one will win this one.

 

I agree that is why I suggest a end to it.

[mrs and mrs]

I agree that is why I suggest a end to it.

 

Nah thats not fair no-one has responded to my rant and rave:eek:

[mrs and mrs]

And the results are in.

ANZACS=36

USA =4

PHILLIPINES=1

CANADA=1

THE MOON=3

 

big kev negated himself by having a bob eachway as did canadian aussie.

 

Tomorrow ill count the most posts by a single person.:)