Have you been made to feel second-class?

[Cantorindahouse]

Have you been made to feel second-class?

 

There is a growing trend in the cruise industry to reinstate first-, second- (and possibly) third-class passengers aboard ships.

 

There is a perceptible shift away from the egalitarianism of life aboard most ships since the 1960's when everyone from those staying in an interior stateroom to those in the most luxurious suite would congregate in the same bars, decks, pools, and dining rooms.

 

Not so long ago, when ships were primarily a mode of transportation, classes were segregated and often restricted to separate areas of vessels. Third-class passenger fares purchased no-frill, port-to-port transportation; accommodations were often gender specific steerage dormitories.

 

The venerable Cunard Line has had at least two different classes on its ships for all of its 171 years. But President Peter Shanks says the industry's newest enclaves may provoke some backlash, particularly if they stick out as so much nicer than other parts of the vessel.

 

Air travelers know they can usually choose first-, business- or economy-class. In the same way, cruisers may still choose to go first- or second-class by booking a "budget", "premium", or "luxury" cruise line. But these cruise line distinctions are becoming less clear.

 

Royal Caribbean created a "suite enhancement program" after it noticed that guests booking luxury suites were giving staterooms high marks in feedback surveys, but were rating the overall cruise less favorably than other passengers. These guests complained they desired to feel special when they left their suite. The major perk they felt entitled to and eventually received was avoiding lines.

 

Another amenity luxury suite guests wanted was separate spaces reserved for them alone. As their ships had gotten larger, noise and crowds were on board realities most luxury suite guests were willing to pay extra to avoid. So Royal Caribbean built private pool-deck areas, added reserved seating at the theaters, private cocktail parties with the ships' captains and priority boarding and disembarking. Royal Caribbean's luxury suite bookings soared and usually sold out.

 

Competing cruise lines quickly responded. They developed a "ship-within-a-ship" concept in an effort to attract passengers who might normally sail small luxury lines.

 

Cruise line investment to provide exclusive amenities and staff to luxury suite guests is compensated because these guests tend to spend more while they're on board. And like first-class airline passengers, guests staying in luxury suites pay hefty premiums for their private perks.

 

A growing number of cruise lines have built lavish and segregated accommodations for their biggest spenders on their ships. Guests on the 4,100-passenger Norwegian Epic booked in one of 75 Courtyard Villa (aka "Haven") suites have a private restaurant, fitness center and pool, where employees pass out fruit and spray sunbathers with cool water. Often they can be in sipping drinks on board in the lounge within fifteen minutes of arriving at port. Some even have access to their own elevator. Courtyard Villa guests also get first dibs on restaurant reservations, shore excursion reservations, spa treatment slots and seats at the various shows. While regular passengers line up at the theater's closed doors, a butler escorts villa guests through a back entrance to their seats. In the main pool deck, a loud band played, frequent announcements blasted interruptions, and squealing children set the ambience. Around the Courtyard Villa area, a dozen or so guests peacefully reclined in near silence.

 

Guests on the Disney Dream booked in one of its 41 rooms on the concierge level have the sole use of a sun deck and lounge with free food, booze, specialty coffee and loaner iPads. Besides private restaurants, pools and lounges, guests booked in the Yacht Clubs on MSC Fantasia and Splendida receive 24-hour butler service from employees trained at the International Butler Academy in the Netherlands. They are also treated to roped-off VIP seating at the ships' discos and can request that shops be opened after hours for crowd-free browsing.

 

Private amenities even extend off the ship. When Royal Caribbean ships visit Labadie, Haiti, luxury suite passengers gain access to a separate stretch of sand with cabanas.

 

"Ship-within-a-ship" complexes are usually tucked away, and cruise line executives insist that regular guests don't mind the class distinctions.

 

In that context, "regular guests" sounds like "second-class" to me. And I'm not sure everything is as tucked away as claimed. Recently I came upon a luxurious lounge and was greeted by the sign "for suite guests only." Even loyalty club members are beginning to mind the class distinctions.

 

We know that competition for our cruise dollars is fierce. Floating condos were built to decrease the cruise line cost per passenger. Once complimentary five-star menus have been moved into premium restaurants. Income producing shopping, bingo, bars, art auctions, spas, shore excursions, and casinos continue to expand. It's easier for an unwary cruiser to end up with a huge bill at check-out, one that could even surpass the fare of the cruise itself.

 

"Regular guests" can still have a relatively all-inclusive vacation by sticking to the complimentary dining rooms and shows and not drinking alcohol, soda or lattes. Companies continue to coax "regular guests" to spend more by adding specialty restaurants that require patrons to pay a premium above their cruise fare. But there's a flip side many "regular guests" are noticing and talking about: there is a lowering quality and variety of complimentary dining meals. What was once complimentary has crept onto the main dining room menu with an extra fee.

 

The practice of nickel-and-diming "regular guests" charging fees for things that were once complimentary and expected as part of the service is annoying and seems borderline unethical. More and more "regular guests" are being asked to settle for less during their vacation aboard, or spend for what was once complimentary. A quick perusal of the reviews bears this out. I recently sailed as a luxury suite guest (eastern Caribbean) and as a regular guest (western Caribbean, same ship, back-to-back cruise). The experiences are different. The staff treated me differently. So I feel confident that the gulf between luxury suite guests ("first-class") and regular guests ("second-class") continues to widen.

 

For a long time my attitude was that people who pay more deserve more. You get what you pay for. There will be the "haves" and the "have nots". That is a given and will not change. That is not up for discussion.

 

But for the first time, whether intentional or not, a Norwegian Cruise Line consultant aboard the Norwegian Star made me feel second-class. It's one thing to take a cruise understanding there will be class distinctions, but quite another to be treated according to one's class. There should be no problem with a class system; but there will be problems with a system without class. Whether first- or second-class, passengers are still the cruise line's guest.

 

So, have you been made to feel second-class?

 

 

The following excerpt from one of my reviews has nothing to do with the category of cabins but it does deal with Do Re Mi not as in

but as in

 

June 1, 2015:Excerpt

"The waitstaff were only interested in service if your "drink card" was up. We had ONE waiter ask us if we wanted anything, ONCE; a bit strange on a ten day cruise. I tested my theory of; if the drink card is up you will be approached. We left our card up and, sure enough, we were asked if we would like wine or anything else from the bar. Not if we would like water, a cup of coffee or tea. Enough said."

Our waiter walked away advising us; "I only do bar service":confused:

The waitstaff do not have a clue as to which cabin category you are in, unless of course, you are dining in one of the "upscale" select restaurants.

On any drink order from the bar there is an 18% surcharge; aka "tip".

 

It's all about the $$$$$$

 

for the waitstaff not about decent service for the guest (s) !

Edited March 25, 2016 by Cantorindahouse

[marco]

Back in the "olden days", we always sailed to Europe. Most of the ships had 1st, 2nd and 3rd class, but they were called 1st, Cabin, and Tourist. We never went 1st (my parents thought too stuffy) We never went Tourist (just a bit too spartan). We always went "cabin class". Yes, the rooms were not as grand as 1st, the cabins a bit more "cozy" and the meals not as elaborate, but we were treated by staff the same as those in 1st, and we always were made to FEEL as though we were traveling 1st and I'd bet it was the same for those in "tourist", too. And today, how you're TREATED is not analogous to how much you spent on your deluxe penthouse suite or your minimum rate inside cabin.

[navybankerteacher]

Of course most passengers on a cruise, regardless of fare level paid, receive better service than they would get at home - where they usually have to "serve" themselves.

 

But if one is simply aware of the difference in quality of food, differences in amenities such as private lounge areas - and even private pools, extra attendants such as butlers and concierges, priority in boarding and in debarkation, special areas on some private islands, private dining rooms (as on Cunard) --- one must recognize that those who pay the fares which entitle them to those preferred levels of treatment do, in fact, receive different (arguably "better" treatment.

 

Nobody likes to see themselves as receiving "second class" service - but if what they are getting relative to what those who pay for premium service is not on a par, what else should they call it?

 

In a different context, but along similar lines, is the unspoken no-no of U.S. politics: no one wants to use the terms "upper class" or "lower class" --- but very many use the term "middle class". To be middle anything means to be between two (at least) other things --- so how can there be a middle class without their being an upper class and a lower class?

 

So, if a cruise line offers a "first class" experience to those paying a premium price, just what would you call the experience level below: "second class" is not that inappropriate a term.

 

This is not to say they are being treated poorly - but in a two tier system, where they are not receiving first class service - what would you call the service they are receiving?

[moniquet]

We wanted to book a future cruise while onboard, and chose a very-low-OV-category. The cruise consultant actually sneered when we told her the category we wanted to book.

 

A previous poster said:

 

 

 

I've been in every category of cabin except penthouse on Holland America. Let me assure you, the treatment one receives in a Neptune Suite is definitely more than a notch above the treatment one receives in the other categories :) I laugh when I see some posters (who always travel in a suite) insist that they receive outstanding service and treatment and therefore anyone who doesn't report the same level of service/treatment is mis-stating or mistaken. Of course those posters have no basis for comparison, since they always sail in a Neptune Suite, but it doesn't seem to stop them from insisting on their own particular (and narrow) view :)

 

DH and I have been blown away at the personal service and exceptional treatment we have received when in a Neptune Suite, compared to other cabin categories. So IMHO you can expect somewhat better treatment, if you ever do decide to splurge on a suite :)

 

I agree, love the Neptune suites and the perks. The way to go:)

[Pyrate13]

Cantorindahouse,

 

Some of the service staff are only there for bar service, they do not have anything to do with getting more water, coffee tea, etc. That would be the wait teams venue.

[sail7seas]

Cantorindahouse,

 

Some of the service staff are only there for bar service, they do not have anything to do with getting more water, coffee tea, etc. That would be the wait teams venue.

 

That's right. Bar stewards are not tasked with getting coffee unless it has liquor in it. If you want a Spanish Coffee, that comes from the bar. If you want black decaf, that comes from the dining room steward.

 

Before we say someone gave us poor service be sure you requested that service or expected it from the correct department. Perhaps their uniforms are different and you could recognize a dining waiter from a bar waiter.

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by sail7seas

[moniquet]

I did feel second class on QM2 because we only had a balcony. The grills have separate dining, bar, deck space. The second time we went in grills, much better.

[Floridiana]

I did feel second class on QM2 because we only had a balcony. The grills have separate dining, bar, deck space. The second time we went in grills, much better.

 

These are amenities that you pay for with your higher cabin category. It's like a hotel where you pay more for a room on the concierge level.

 

Maybe the senior hotel staff on a ship pays close attention to the occupants of the owner's cabin and other really high category staterooms (lowest balcony doesn't qualify :)). Most of the waiters on most cruise lines don't know where you sleep and treat you like all other friendly passengers.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Floridiana

[CowPrincess]

These are amenities that you pay for with your higher cabin category. It's like a hotel where you pay more for a room on the concierge level.

 

Maybe the senior hotel staff on a ship pays close attention to the occupants of the owner's cabin and other really high category staterooms (lowest balcony doesn't qualify :)). Most of the waiters on most cruise lines don't know where you sleep and treat you like all other friendly passengers.

 

If you order anything that has a cost, you hand over your room card, which on HAL is a different colour for suites. So the dining and bar stewards often know, too.

Edited March 26, 2016 by CowPrincess

[sail7seas]

My suite card on NCL was a different color than non-suite cabins.

[loubetti]

Interesting, short treatise, though I have never felt being treated like 2nd class on any ship regardless of my cabin, and that includes over a dozen cruises on Cunard.

 

Oh, just one minor correction for the OP: Cunard is not 171 years old, but will be 176 this year. July, 1840 when Britannia arrived in Boston.

 

Some suggested reading for those interested, that will teach one much about class distinctions, and much historical information over the years, and all by the same, legendary author; John Maxtone-Graham.

 

The Only Way to Cross (1972)

Liners to the Sun (1982)

Crossing and Cruising (1992)

 

All should still be in publication. :)

[Magnum60]

I've cruised on the 'very best lines' as well as the 'main stream lines' and have never been concerned by how I'm financially perceived by the cruise line, its ships staff or by passengers that chose to book Grill accommodations on a Cunard ship. The same holds true for those that book a condo sized suite on Carnival or any other cruise line. I had a choice of accommodations and amenities when I booked my travel and I bought what I though would best serve my needs. I've avoided disappointed because I did my research and knew exactly what I was buying. Anything above the level and amenities I chose would be unexpected and a gift. I am certainly not envious of a passenger that booked a mega suite or how differently they are perceived to be taken care of because they like us share the same public spaces. If you want more goodies bring more money when you book your cruise. You get what you pay for.

[Host Anne]

I'm going to agree with the OP here. Even though I didn't read through the entire post, I got the gist of what they were trying to say.

 

While I haven't felt like a second class citizen, there is definitely a trend to separate passengers based upon the category of cabin they have purchased. Celebrity started this back in 2008 when they introduced the Blu restaurant for Aqua Class passengers. I had no problem with that. But as time has gone on, it's no longer just a restaurant for a certain group of passengers. They now have taken certain areas of the ship that used to be available to everyone and are restricting them to suite guests. I do believe it's getting to the point that the only guests that matter any longer are those willing to spend the money on suites.

 

I can't speak about other lines but I think catering to higher paying passengers is somewhat causing service to the average passenger to suffer. There are already fewer crew members providing service these days. Those left to service lower paying passengers are terribly overworked and struggle to keep up. It would be different if the crew to passenger ratios weren't changing, but they are.

 

So while there isn't anything specific that has made us personally feel second class, I can see where the OP is coming from. It used to be if you were a long time loyal cruiser, that meant something. That is slowly being eroded as I think cruise lines want higher paying passengers rather than long term repeaters.

 

Bottom line is we have a variety of vacation choices. If we find ourselves not enjoying cruising any longer, we'll choose something else.

[navybankerteacher]

I'm going to agree with the OP here. Even though I didn't read through the entire post, I got the gist of what they were trying to say.

 

While I haven't felt like a second class citizen, there is definitely a trend to separate passengers based upon the category of cabin they have purchased. Celebrity started this back in 2008 when they introduced the Blu restaurant for Aqua Class passengers. I had no problem with that. But as time has gone on, it's no longer just a restaurant for a certain group of passengers. They now have taken certain areas of the ship that used to be available to everyone and are restricting them to suite guests. I do believe it's getting to the point that the only guests that matter any longer are those willing to spend the money on suites.

 

I can't speak about other lines but I think catering to higher paying passengers is somewhat causing service to the average passenger to suffer. There are already fewer crew members providing service these days. Those left to service lower paying passengers are terribly overworked and struggle to keep up. It would be different if the crew to passenger ratios weren't changing, but they are.

 

So while there isn't anything specific that has made us personally feel second class, I can see where the OP is coming from. It used to be if you were a long time loyal cruiser, that meant something. That is slowly being eroded as I think cruise lines want higher paying passengers rather than long term repeaters.

 

Bottom line is we have a variety of vacation choices. If we find ourselves not enjoying cruising any longer, we'll choose something else.

 

 

Good summary- while receiving second class service should not make one feel "second class" , the service and overall quality of the cruise experience for those not paying premium fares has indeed been impacted by the introduction of first class service.

 

The lines are able to keep the overwhelming majority of passengers satisfied because of the rapid growth of cruising -- only a small percentage of today's cruisers have experienced what was standard just ten or fifteen years ago.

[boobasimcha]

What I object to is the closure of the main lounge (Celebrity is what we have cruised most) for a couple of hours for Captain's club or some such cocktail parties, baring general cruisers from somewhere to relax and watch the world go by :rolleyes: