Will Cruise Lines Cancel Turkey?

[wolfpackmom]

Just read that the Pentagon is pulling all military families from the area, and that the State Department reissued a travel warning for Turkey due to increased threats from terror groups in the area.

 

Considering the liability involved, I can't imagine cruise ships wanting to stop in Turkey.

[Pet Nit Noy]

Just read that the Pentagon is pulling all military families from the area, and that the State Department reissued a travel warning for Turkey due to increased threats from terror groups in the area.

 

Considering the liability involved, I can't imagine cruise ships wanting to stop in Turkey.

 

I just posted this same information with a link to a Washington Post (WAPO) article on the topic on one of the cruise line boards. At this point, I don't think it's a question of "if." I think it is only a question of "when". How fast can the cruise lines make alternative docking arrangements in other countries?

 

ETA: Actually, I just learned from the Oceania board where I first posted that all port calls in Turkey had already been eliminated even before this government directive.

 

Here's the link to the WAPO article:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/03/29/pentagon-and-state-department-order-family-members-of-u-s-troops-and-diplomats-to-leave-turkey/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_turkey-110pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Edited March 29, 2016 by Pet Nit Noy

[buggins0402]

I just posted this same information with a link to a Washington Post (WAPO) article on the topic on one of the cruise line boards. At this point, I don't think it's a question of "if." I think it is only a question of "when". How fast can the cruise lines make alternative docking arrangements in other countries?

 

ETA: Actually, I just learned from the Oceania board where I first posted that all port calls in Turkey had already been eliminated even before this government directive.

 

Here's the link to the WAPO article:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/03/29/pentagon-and-state-department-order-family-members-of-u-s-troops-and-diplomats-to-leave-turkey/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_turkey-110pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

 

PNN Thanks for posting this...here and elsewhere;). I also hope you didn't misunderstand my message, it was a feeble attempt on my part as support for you.:)

[Pet Nit Noy]

PNN Thanks for posting this...here and elsewhere;). I also hope you didn't misunderstand my message, it was a feeble attempt on my part as support for you.:)

 

I got your thoughtful message of support loud and clear. Nothing feeble about your communication skills!! Thanks!

[Pet Nit Noy]

PNN Thanks for posting this...here and elsewhere;).

 

Sometimes we criticize the cruise lines for timidity when they cancel ports. The situation must be very, very grave if the Pentagon and US Department of State are sending home military and diplomatic dependents.

 

We lived in the Washington, DC area for decades. Dear friends were in the foreign service. During their posts, my husband and I agreed to be the place the family could come if they had to evacuate. (Their own home would be rented when the husband was posted abroad.) In the seventeen years they were posted abroad, mother and sons were only sent home once. They lived with us for three or four months until dad finished his post overseas and rotated back to the US. This article brought back memories of their hurried departure from their foreign post and the anxiety we all felt about the military personnel and diplomats still at their posts.

[KirkNC]

Outside of Izmir, it is only along the border with Syria. Some lines have already cancelled, others have not. Time will tell how it all works out.

[Keith1010]

Some cruise lines have canceled stops there and aside from any threats if demand for these cruises is down you will see more cancellations.

 

Keith

[cruisemom42]

I never like to respond quickly to these things, and this new warning (the one issued by the US) is more puzzling than most. It seems there is some specific threat; also, they go to pains to mention that tourists are being targeted. Not good. I also see that Izmir is an area specifically mentioned. Geographically, Izmir is not so far from Kusadasi (and I think Ephesus is actually in the same province). And realistically it's also not SO far from Istanbul.

 

Unless things change pretty drastically in the next few weeks, I am pretty sure this will put paid to any remaining stops in Turkey by any major cruise line this season. I expect it will simply be a matter of time until the notices come out. As already pointed out, some lines have already cancelled stops. I believe Celebrity and HAL still have some scheduled calls to Turkey. Some lines cancelled Istanbul but not Kusadasi -- now I think all Turkey stops will go.

 

For me personally, this is the point where I'd stop reassuring people that Turkey is safe, especially if they have concerns. I might still travel there myself (as I still feel overall the chances are slim that I'd be in the wrong place at the wrong time), but until the current situation is clearer, I'm not comfortable saying it's as safe as I previously considered it to be.

[hawkeyetlse]

I never like to respond quickly to these things, and this new warning (the one issued by the US) is more puzzling than most. It seems there is some specific threat

In yesterday's press briefings, both the Pentagon and the State Dept insisted that there was no specific threat, and that this was not a sudden urgent decision.

Peter Cook: Again, this is a -- this was a decision made out of an abundance of caution, given the overall picture, the security threats that -- that we looked at in the region. There's no specific threat that triggered this, but a broader decision based on what we've seen in the region. (transcript)

John Kirby: try to keep in mind that this was really a decision that was several weeks in the making in terms of assessing the security situation there (transcript)

So the reporter wanted to know why announce this now, with the Turkish President and Foreign Minister Turkish in Washington. There is almost certainly a political component to the timing of this announcement, if there is no specific threat and no order or even a recommendation for ordinary US tourists to leave Turkey.

Reporter: I mean, if this could have just as easily been done last week or next week, it certainly appears like this was timed to cause maximum embarrassment to senior leaders of your NATO ally, Turkey, who happened to be coming to town.

Edited March 30, 2016 by hawkeyetlse

[angeleyes27]

They requested that military families leave voluntarily last September and now made it manditory. I doubt this has a politcal motive. Many cruise ships have pulled out as well. We have a cousin who lives in Turkey. She says the situation is toxic and is looking to leave. Our Turkish tour guide last summer asked us to pray for the country as she was scared and said the country was moving backwards into fundamentalism.

[Pet Nit Noy]

In yesterday's press briefings, both the Pentagon and the State Dept insisted that there was no specific threat, and that this was not a sudden urgent decision.

 

Please bear in mind that decisions that are based on intelligence gathering often have to be expressed in a way that obscures what the US knows. Otherwise, it may be possible to figure out how the US knows what it knows. This deceit protects the lives of human intelligence sources in the short term and preserves both human and technological intelligence resources for the long term.

 

If you believe there is no specific threat just because the US publicly announces there is none...

Edited March 30, 2016 by Pet Nit Noy

[hawkeyetlse]

If you believe there is no specific threat just because the US publicly announces there is none...

I accept that government spokespeople (and the media) do not always tell the truth, for whatever reasons, good and bad. I can tell you which parts I choose to believe, and you can tell me that you think that those parts are actually lies: that sort of discussion is completely pointless.

 

I think it is useful to make it clear what has been said (this is why I gave links to the briefings for anyone who cares to read them). After that, I am not interested in telling anyone else how to interpret those statements. As I said, that is a waste of everyone's time. Make up your own mind.

[cruisemom42]

We have a cousin who lives in Turkey. She says the situation is toxic and is looking to leave. Our Turkish tour guide last summer asked us to pray for the country as she was scared and said the country was moving backwards into fundamentalism.

 

 

Toxic? Meaning what? I think that assessment is a little dramatic.

 

From what I have read and what I have heard on various visits, the current government does have a fundamentalist leaning, it's true, but there is also quite a bit of opposition to this. They are nowhere near to being a fundamentalist state. There is strong and spirited opposition to Erdogan's plans to reform the government.

 

What concerns me more is the current government stance regarding the PKK (Kurdish minority).

[angeleyes27]

She didn't elaborate on what she meant by toxic. She said that her media presence is monitored. She said the south is a mess. She has been a teacher in Turkey for 8 years. She said this is her last. She is staying off public transportation. Three years ago she said she felt very safe there. Our guide said that women who did not wear a hijab were discriminated against. She said she wished she had left the country years ago. She said she was very nervous. Another person's guide was nervous as well. I can just repeat what I have heard. Our cousin said to stay away from Taksim Square. She has many friends there. I can only quote what I have been told but I am not sure how to interpret it

[angeleyes27]

One thing they had said is that they felt censored. They felt the current leader was taking advantage of the uneducated to push his agenda. They did not mention PKK.

[cruisemom42]

As can be seen in posts on these boards, some people are by nature more nervous/anxious than others. I'm not discounting that some people may feel nervous. But I prefer to focus on facts and the "known" rather than just sentiments. People being discriminated against regarding the wearing of the hijab is something concrete. Fears alone aren't.

 

I might say to a visitor from another country that I'm very concerned or even anxious about the results of the upcoming Presidential election. They may interpret that to mean I feel the country is at risk of total breakdown, when that wasn't my actual feeling at all.... If you see what I mean.

[happy trailer]

Toxic? Meaning what? I think that assessment is a little dramatic.

 

From what I have read and what I have heard on various visits, the current government does have a fundamentalist leaning, it's true, but there is also quite a bit of opposition to this. They are nowhere near to being a fundamentalist state. There is strong and spirited opposition to Erdogan's plans to reform the government.

 

What concerns me more is the current government stance regarding the PKK (Kurdish minority).

 

But that opposition is being repressed and censored, with violent reaction to demonstrations and the seizing of newspapers.

 

BTW, I took note of/was impressed/realized the thought you put into your recent post here regarding your no longer feeling comfortable about reassuring people that Turkey is safe (I have days when my English fails me, so can't find the words to express what I'm trying to say today!). It actually shook me a bit- it's one thing when those thoughts are expressed by those in the group of the 'nervous posters', but much more formidable when it comes from someone from whom we anticipate the opposite. (This is written as a compliment!)

[angeleyes27]

Our cousin's husband is as calm as a cucumber about everything. Nothing scares him, even ISIS. He said it is his last year there and he wants to leave. That says something. Our cousin who always loved Turkey now is looking to leave. They said they feel bad for friends in Turkey who cannot leave. Our guide in Ephesus said family ties and values are strong in Turkey but Erdogen was becoming a dictator and looking to turn the country back into a more fundamentalist Muslim nation when they were used to their freedoms. Both these people love Turkey and the Turkish people. The Turks are very friendly to Americans and tourists and treat them royally. But they are victims of a government who is looking to control and censor the people.

[Pet Nit Noy]

I accept that government spokespeople (and the media) do not always tell the truth, for whatever reasons, good and bad. I can tell you which parts I choose to believe, and you can tell me that you think that those parts are actually lies: that sort of discussion is completely pointless... There is almost certainly a political component to the timing of this announcement, if there is no specific threat and no order or even a recommendation for ordinary US tourists to leave Turkey.

 

This board is a cruise board so the essential reason why we're having any discussion of this topic is that cruise lines already have -- and may yet --cancel port calls in Turkey.

 

If a reader accepts the reporter's statement that the timing of the announcement is political, designed to embarrass Turkey, then the logical conclusion is that visitors may safely travel to/in that country. In contrast, if readers believe that the US government chose to disrupt families who have accompanied spouses to posts in Turkey because there is a serious threat that cannot be publicly acknowledged, then the logical conclusion is to avoid visiting Turkey at this time.

 

We are in agreement that each cruiser must make up his/her mind.

[Karennella]

The Australian government has just upgraded the warning about travel to Turkey.

[JZ1018]

I just got off the phone with RCL. So far there is no change in the itineraries of any ships going to Turkey. They have not received any alerts yet. All ships are as scheduled. I really want to go to Ephesus, so I hope this situation does not escalate. If our ship docks in Kusadasi, we will get off and go see the sites.

[FloridaTourist]

I just got off the phone with RCL. So far there is no change in the itineraries of any ships going to Turkey. They have not received any alerts yet. All ships are as scheduled. I really want to go to Ephesus, so I hope this situation does not escalate. If our ship docks in Kusadasi, we will get off and go see the sites.

 

 

I agree with you. We leave on the booster damn on April 18 I will be at Ephesus later that week. The key is to travel smart. We don't plan on using any public transportation and I don't plan on doing any bus tours. our tours will all be private

[8373seth]

I went to the UK site. They say:

 

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to within 10 km of the border with Syria and to the city of Diyarbakir.

 

The FCO advise against all but essential travel to:

 

the remaining areas of Sirnak, Mardin, Sanliurfa, Gaziantep, Diyarbakir, Kilis and Hatay provinces

Siirt, Tunceli and Hakkari

 

So no warnings at all for Ephesus. Wonder why such a difference between UK and US and Australia?

 

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/turkey

[LondonTowner]

Ephesus is a long way from Syria. Spain is and has been on red alert for a long time, but only alert to be vigilant as is the same with Greece and France. Here in London we have an extreme alert. I went to the theatre yesterday in the West End of London. Only thought about it for a moment because bags being checked as we were going in. Otherwise it wouldn't have crossed my mind.

 

Probably better not to write what I really think about the difference in the warnings.

 

Nowhere is entirely safe, but life has to go on.

[Karennella]

The Australian government has the issue of the Anzac Day ceremonies on April 25th, which sees thousands do Aussies converge on Gallipoli. Last year, being the centenary memorial, visitors included, from memory, the Prime Minister, the GG and many other VIPs. Many people, ourselves included, spend additional time travelling in the country before and after the ceremony.

They are not cancelling the commemoration but are specifically concerned with Istanbul and Ankara. I am sure most people will still travel but if they need to be warned. But our friends have had a land tour for later in the year cancelled. Some of the flights are not covered under their travel insurance and they are really disappointed.